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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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DragonParadox said:
Her understanding of the world which ultimately lead to the creation of Lya's class and understanding of magic.
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I have been wondering about that particular bit for a very long time. Thank you.

@Thread this is what I've been getting at, in the post linked above. I have been enjoying pondering this for a long time though:

"So there must be some method of transposition and more importantly some intelligent agency that kick-started that transposition. At least that is the best theory i have so far"
....
"Sure it does, it is happening again." Lya replies, "Only this time it is with a class of abilities that did not make the jump to "instinctive mages" (we need a better name for the classification) before."

Bolding mine :D
 
Well now that we are expanding our spy network into Westeros it means that Bloodraven will finally have people who he can use and don't come back to him because they technically work for us. Soon we can find him and thwart him at every turn.
 
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DragonParadox said:
  • If Lucan is so charismatic that any mage who is not insane/enthralled some dark power joins him then yes he kills all mages who do notjoin him. You are seeing the man's actions not his motivations
  • Because all the people who Bloodraven has enough leverage on to use as direct spies like that are also ones who know a worrying amount about him. He also has to stay a secret.
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Magic binding the people that actually join him is kinda bad. Motivations lead to said actions though. Raising the Faith Militant is bad. Its basically declaring war on all that don't follow the Seven. Can say won't all you want and mean it doesn't mean you'll follow through with it when the time comes. Like wasn't Richards mom being turned against him by a Lucan follower or something? I'm liking how Lucan is turning out so far but doesn't change certain things.
 
mrsean22 said:
Magic binding the people that actually join him is kinda bad. Motivations lead to said actions though. Raising the Faith Militant is bad. Its basically declaring war on all that don't follow the Seven. Can say won't all you want and mean it doesn't mean you'll follow through with it when the time comes. Like wasn't Richards mom being turned against him by a Lucan follower or something? I'm liking how Lucan is turning out so far but doesn't change certain things.
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  1. The magic binding thing is Tywin
  2. Richard's mom was indeed a septon but he was in turn being influenced by Deep Ones
  3. As for the Faith Militant... yes and no. Keep in mind the Faith militant existed for millennia yet though all that time the Blackwoods for instance still worshiped the Old Gods in the Riverlands under a Seven-worshiping king. My point is not that Lucan is 'just misunderstood' but you guys have been turning him into a caricature for a while. That a dangerous thing to do to an enemy
 
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Adhoc vote count started by Goldfish on May 12, 2019 at 10:42 AM, finished with 58 posts and 9 votes.
  • [X] Divining Preparations
    -[X] Approach one of Lucan's mages as Dywen, in the context of one seeking clarity after your conversation with the man. The semblance of Dywen can speak passionately, but is also not one given to rash thought. As rumours, as is often the case, appear to have been false, we would like to know more of the man who brought together a company of Godsworn to defend the Faithful. This is an entirely IC justification, loses us nothing, and can gain us a great deal. Not just knowledge, mind, but a reputation as one who accepts the possibility of self-error and seeks to rectify it. It also most likely puts us up against a lower level non social spec caster who we can bulldozer with Viserys bonkers socials.
    --[X] Ask about Lucan and his company, how they were brought together, what they believe. Don't push here, but be tactful with our information gathering. Standard stuff, but can be done through the lens of faith quite easily.
    --[X] The main thrust of this vote is to acquire clarity on who and what Lucan really is as a person. We need this information to plan around his moves.
    -[X] Before the break finishes, be sure to talk to Kyle about Lucan's proposal.
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Goldfish said:
You know, Lucan actually seems like a reasonable enough dude, except for all that unwavering faith in a moribund pantheon of simpleton gods and the mission to kill us.

It's almost a shame that we're going to have to shank him.
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Put him on the shelf, the 7 can't pick a new chosen if we don't kill him.

DragonParadox said:
misunderstood' but you guys have been turning him into a caricature for a while. That a dangerous thing to do to an enemy
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Us?!?! Dehumanizing and underestimating an enemy to a ludicrous degree?!?!?!

Ive never been so insulted :V!!!
 
Duesal said:
Actually, we don't really know yet. Bloodraven requested we experiment by capturing the Chosen of the Smith and the Crone instead of killing them so he could test it out.
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Step 1) Capture other chosen
Step 2) Make the Seven panic and depower them
Step 3) Free the depowered chosen and confront them with the reality that their divine patrons lost their faith in them
Step 4) Recruit them into our empire. Offer them the ability to become concept clerics.
???
Profit.
 
Eh, flipping the Smiths chosen seems like it would be easy so...

I'd rather just straight recruit them if we know where we are.
 
DragonParadox said:
As for the Faith Militant... yes and no. Keep in mind the Faith militant existed for millennia yet though all that time the Blackwoods for instance still worshiped the Old Gods in the Riverlands under a Seven-worshiping king. My point is not that Lucan is 'just misunderstood' but you guys have been turning him into a caricature for a while. That a dangerous thing to do to an enemy
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See I would believe that if it weren't for the fact Lucan seems like he is preparing for war against the Old Gods and Viserys. Don't really think him as a monster but it doesn't change what he is trying to do and what that will cause.
 
zxzx24 said:
Eh, flipping the Smiths chosen seems like it would be easy so...

I'd rather just straight recruit them if we know where we are.
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You're talking about the biggest heretic in the world trying to recruit them. And he's currently making weapons specifically to kill us. Don't expect this to be simple in any way, like, "Let's just recruit them instead of killing them." This isn't the equivalent of trying to hire some stranger.
 
mrsean22 said:
See I would believe that if it weren't for the fact Lucan seems like he is preparing for war against the Old Gods and Viserys. Don't really think him as a monster but it doesn't change what he is trying to do and what that will cause.
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He's fighting us therefore he must be evil?

He seems like a perfectly reasonable man, he's even (faked) some kindness. And nothing evil he has had done we haven't

The simple fact of the matter is the 7 and the Old God's are planning this war to the death.

"Good" "evil", they are nice, but for this war? Only our loyalties demand we kill each other.
 
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Duesal said:
You're talking about the biggest heretic in the world trying to recruit them. And he's currently making weapons specifically to kill us. Don't expect this to be simple in any way, like, "Let's just recruit them instead of killing them." This isn't the equivalent of trying to hire some stranger.
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Seeing as we have literally never met each other, and we flipped Mel who is not a low level child.

Yeah, we also just ditched Brienne and left her to her own devices as well.

I'm very much kicking myself over not pushing to recruit her harder.
 
zxzx24 said:
He's fighting us therefore he must be evil?

He seems like a perfectly reasonable man, he's even (faked) some kindness. And nothing evil he has had done we haven't

The simple fact of the matter is the 7 and the Old God's are planning this war to the death.

"Good" "evil" they are nice, but our loyalties demand we kill each other.
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Never said evil. It's the fact he isn't even considering an alternative and going for the war route. Good motivations are nice but it doesn't change stupid actions that will cause destruction if Lucan plan works. Raising the Faith Militant WILL cause problems.
 
Snowfire said:
There's a reason that Viserys finds Lucan so distasteful beyond the simple Faith issue, I'm beginning to realise. The two are frighteningly similar.
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Yup.

I've been really liking Lucan so far, even if he makes this incredibly difficult for us.

You know, since we've started actually talking and getting information on the who's who of the Conclave, I got the feeling that they could actually reasonably settle things, that we'd need a huge spanner in the works, to cause enormous amounts of friction for anything remotely similar to what people are apparently dead sure will happen, I.e violent, or at least radical, splintering.

Lucan, whom had very few votes and seemed like a fanatic, seemed the one ticket to it.

And it turns out that he isn't. He outright uses the same language as Viserys does, and has shown himself emminently reasonable in this latest update, neatly nipping one of the biggest objectionable traits we'd thought he had.

If he is unaware of the ultimate Court of Stars play, I say we employ our greatest weapon: Talk-no-Jutsu: Friendship is Magic.

Because at this point, it feels like we only need to dispel the caricature of us he has built, much like we are having the one we built torn down by actual interaction with him, and show him that, ultimately, what he wants leads to an unacceptable, absolute theocracy.

Because if he is, deep down, a Good Man, then he should be good with us. Hell, he should be our biggest supporter, given how we've elevated the standards of living, gave aid to the unfortunate and severely revamped the justice system to be fairer, faster and more representative.
Goldfish said:
Get well soon, dude.

I think my office is finally free of whatever crud has been circulating among the cubes for months now. Of course, that just means that someone's nasty little kid will probably bring something entirely new home from daycare for their parent to pass on to the rest of us in another seemingly never ending cycle of disease and misery.

EDIT: And now that I've said it, I'll probably be the first one infected by Typhoid Cube Drone #23.
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Vaccines. All the vaccines.
 
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mrsean22 said:
Raising the Faith Militant WILL cause problems.
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Our regime change will as well.


Regardless.

It really feels to me like we don't see the 7s chosen as people at all.

Just vaguely human shaped cardboard cutouts hiding piles of vice and annoyance.

Which... I can see why, this is a war an human nature is still human nature.

Its just... This conclave has starkly highlighted what disdain and arrogance is costing us.
 
TotallyNotEvil said:
Because if he is, deep down, a Good Man, then he should be good with us. Hell, he should be our biggest supporter, given how we've elevated the standards of living, gave aid to the unfortunate and severely revamped the justice system to be fairer, faster and more representative.
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Except he isn't. He's faking it. All his speeches have been peppered with lies and fey truths about how he totally isn't going to take over as a theocracy and then proceed to crack down on everyone he was forced to spare out of convenience before.

There's a reason his own angels think they'd need to guarantee his obeying a parlay (namely that he won't on his own initiative) and Danelle, who likes pretty much everyone, dislikes him.
 
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mrsean22 said:
Never said evil. It's the fact he isn't even considering an alternative and going for the war route. Good motivations are nice but it doesn't change stupid actions that will cause destruction if Lucan plan works. Raising the Faith Militant WILL cause problems.
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And that's the point: we haven't even considered other options, either, because we've built him as a crazed fanatic in our heads.

If he is what he seems to present himself as, someone who is simply trying to do his best for the people, then we are natural allies.

We just have to convince him that this particular path is does not, in fact, leads to what he wants, because much like we talked with Mel, the Seven's Truth is a truth, not the only truth.

Which means righteous will come in conflict with righteous, while the truly, unequivocally Evil powers gleefully take advantage of markind's disunity and strife.

Thus, the one way to unity, thus strenght and safety, is for a non-theocratic leadership.

And that's us.
 
zxzx24 said:
Seeing as we have literally never met each other, and we flipped Mel who is not a low level child.

Yeah, we also just ditched Brienne and left her to her own devices as well.

I'm very much kicking myself over not pushing to recruit her harder.
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Melisandre shouldn't ever be a benchmark for the Seven's Chosen. R'hllor is a completely different god, one who hasn't prioritized our death. More than that Melisandre was a canon character who had plenty of material for us to use as a baseline, which was a hefty advantage in social combat. And something we don't like to consider but should be acknowledged anyway—one of our two biggest social combat players who spearheaded the Melisandre recruitment is now gone for good.

If you've got a plan beyond a vague desire to recruit the Chosen, like an actual plan and arguments to use, I'm very interested.

For the moment I'm preferential to @Tomcost's proposal to capture them and see if the Seven abandon them.
 
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