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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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Goldfish said:
What if we left Ollidor and Lucan to their own devices and sought out Kyle and Lady Myssa? We're here as part of his faction, as far as he knows, so it would only be natural for us to come to him with grave concerns after overhearing Lucan speaking with Ollidor, expressing views which might seem quite benign, even somewhat enlightened compared to many of the Faithful, but which taken in context allude to him only regarding magic practiced by those who follow the Seven as being acceptable. This would not only contradict what he just said before the entire gathered Conclave in regards to dealing with the Fey, who are innately magical beings and have no interaction with the gods, but would also imply that he would be willing to persecute those not of the Faith who practice magic.
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This sounds excellent.
 
Goldfish said:
This would not only contradict what he just said before the entire gathered Conclave in regards to dealing with the Fey, who are innately magical beings and have no interaction with the gods, but would also imply that he would be willing to persecute those not of the Faith who practice magic.
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Even more we already have proof of this from his Angel friend. They've already hunted down Mages who wouldn't sign on to his little cult army and the ones who didn't give up magic got put to the sword.

Doesn't sound like a very forgiving man in my opinion.
 
Evaunit02mark1 said:
Even more we already have proof of this from his Angel friend. They've already hunted down Mages who wouldn't sign on to his little cult army and the ones who didn't give up magic got put to the sword.

Doesn't sound like a very forgiving man in my opinion.
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If he willing to execute civilians en masse he's probably acting a lot more magnanimous than he actually is.
 
Evaunit02mark1 said:
Even more we already have proof of this from his Angel friend. They've already hunted down Mages who wouldn't sign on to his little cult army and the ones who didn't give up magic got put to the sword.

Doesn't sound like a very forgiving man in my opinion.
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Unfortunately, we, as Dywen, have no way to know that nor any proof to offer to verify it. :(
 
Goldfish said:
Unfortunately, we, as Dywen, have no way to know that nor any proof to offer to verify it. :(
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Doesn't Dywen travel around? Seems to me he'd hear about the "foul heretic Mages put to death by Lucan's and the Father's righteous Judgement" and "The magic cursed who saw the light of the Seven."

Peasants are horrible at Opsec.
 
DragonParadox said:
The Seven Who Are One
Father, Mother, Warrior, Maiden, Smith, Crone, and Stranger

Alignment: ???

Domains: ???

Known Supernatural Servitors: None

The Church: The Seven were the gods of the ancient Andals, the gods of Hugor of the Hill who promised fat lands to the west to their chosen people, a prophecy that was fulfilled in full for in these days more than nine in ten of every man of Westeros swears by the Sevenfold Gods. They are also the gods Aegon took as his own and his line after him, though the Faith of the Seven did not emerge unchanged from under the shadow of the Last of the Dragon Lords.

The Faith Militant was more than the strong arm of the Seven. In many ways it was its beating heart, the drum beat that could unite septons and their flock, that could call pious knights to arms from the Neck to Dorne, and it is that heart that Maegor the Cruel rent from its breast for treachery and disloyalty when the Faith refused to bend the knee a second time to a king born of incest... Fire raged and blood flowed in rivers, and though Maegor ultimately failed to see the battle's end, for he was a man much in love with strife, the land and its people lay broken and wounded. It fell thus Jaehaerys called the Conciliator to make whole what had been cast asunder, and so he did.

The dynasty and the Faith dwelt in uneasy peace as kings of the blood of dragons knelt to receive their crowns from the palsied hands of Andal prelates, while those same prelates blessed in the name of their gods unions of brother and sister in the Valyrian manner though such unions were condemned in the Seven-Pointed Star. What the gods may have thought of this age you cannot guess... but you doubt they will take one of your House back with open arms: a sorcerer and a child of incest both, and above all else one sworn to the vengeful gods of the North to humble the Seven Gods Who Are One.

Tenets of the Faith: Seven Virtues do the gods love the most: wisdom for the Father, mercy for the Mother, valor for the Warrior, purity for the Maiden, diligence for the Smith, patience for the Crone, and humility before the Stranger.

Worshipers by Region: Stepstones (11%), Three Daughters (None), Eastern Lands (None), Westeros south of the Neck (95%), The North (18%)

Infrastructure: Grand Sept in Sorcerer's Deep [in construction], Major Sept in Braavos, a handful of small septs in Andalos serving isolated communities (Not in communion with the Westerosi church), Grand Septs in Old Town and King's Landing, major septs in all Westerosi towns
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@DragonParadox, can we get a more complete set of information on the Seven now that we've fully read the Complete Collection of Holy Scripture of the Faith of the Seven?

For instance, you've said that blood sacrifice is strictly against their core tenets. Can you give us a detailed list of what their tenets are? What we've got is very vague.

The Old Gods, in comparison, have a rather clear list:
Tenets of the Faith: Six things do the Old Gods abhor: oathbreaking, kinslaying, slavery, incest, the defilement of guest-right, and the destruction of their sacred Heart Trees.
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Evaunit02mark1 said:
Doesn't Dywen travel around? Seems to me he'd hear about the "foul heretic Mages put to death by Lucan's and the Father's righteous Judgement" and "The magic cursed who saw the light of the Seven."

Peasants are horrible at Opsec.
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Lucian's response:
"Hearsay from decived peasants, from those who spread fear and hate, brother, the light of the seven does not reach the hearts of the willfully blind or those who turn to vice and sin"

But I like that we're throwing out ideas :)
 
Its best if we can extrapolate from what he says, keep in mind we can ask him to address rumors we heard, but he will likely dismiss them, and possibly be very unhappy with us in the process.
 
Duesal said:
@DragonParadox, can we get a more complete set of information on the Seven now that we've fully read the Complete Collection of Holy Scripture of the Faith of the Seven?

For instance, you've said that blood sacrifice is strictly against their core tenets. Can you give us a detailed list of what their tenets are? What we've got is very vague.

The Old Gods, in comparison, have a rather clear list:
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The faith of the seven are kind of what would happen if the Norse Pantheon evolved into a entity akin to the Christian God (at once separate and joined), without and explicit savior figure. For a more detailed account I will need a few more day to mull it over Geenrally speaking you can assume the virtues are the ones in line with Westerosi society
  1. Good lordship for the Father
  2. Kindness and charity for the Mother
  3. Hope, Generosity for the Maiden
  4. Diligence for the Smith
  5. Valor for the warrior
  6. Wisdom for the crone
  7. Humility before death for the stranger
 
DragonParadox said:
The faith of the seven are kind of what would happen if the Norse Pantheon evolved into a entity akin to the Christian God (at once separate and joined), without and explicit savior figure. For a more detailed account I will need a few more day to mull it over Geenrally speaking you can assume the virtues are the ones in line with Westerosi society
  1. Good lordship for the Father
  2. Kindness and charity for the Mother
  3. Hope, Generosity for the Maiden
  4. Diligence for the Smith
  5. Valor for the warrior
  6. Wisdom for the crone
  7. Humility before death for the stranger
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Regarding the Crone, what kind of wisdom is forbidden wisdom?
 
I actually like Goldfish's plan of convincing Kyle of Lucan's plans of killing the fey after the fact. We can use our much higher Diplo to convince him of the fact and fray the ties. After we can approach Ollidor and use the "Faith Militant reborn" thing to scare him away from Lucan.
 
I'm torn between two approaches here;

[] Try to speak to both of them
-[] Viserys gently interjects before Lucan can fully disengage from the conversation he had just been leading, "Pardon my interruption, Brother Lucan, but could you please clarify your statement? If I understand correctly, you deem the practice of magic, so long as it is guided by the hand of the Seven, but what of those mages who reject such guidance? Surely, if they break no laws of the realm, do not seek to harm or exploit others, then they should be free to practice their magic in peace?"
--[] "Surely you would not advocate forced conversion, Brother? Or make war against our neighbors who do not serve the Seven?"
---[] Depending on Lucan's answer, and any responses from Ollidor, ask the following if Viserys thinks he will receive a meaningful answer; "If the Seven are to guide mages, what then of those organizations which already employ magic? Tales speak of some among the Lantern Bearers of Oldtown who wield some degree of magic, though a much better example would be the Golden Shields which even now protect the realm. Should they fall under control of the Faith?"

and

[] Seek out Kyle and Lady Myssa, for we have urgent news to share with them both.
-[] When we find them, ask to speak with them alone for a moment, if possible. If not, ask that Kyle only have those he trusts most among his faction at hand to hear our news.
--[] Go on to explain what we heard from Ollidor and Lucan's conversation, focusing especially on Lucan's statements that make it clear that no matter how lenient he seems, he appears to only trust those who serve the Seven with the ability to use magic. If this is true, then any support he appeared to offer Kyle in securing the right for mortals to bargain with the Fey, who themselves are innately supernatural creatures who practice magic in nearly every aspect of their lives and who by default worship no gods, is hollow at best, a slick bit of political maneuvering to secure his own place in the Conclave.
---[] A much worse case, however, would be that Lucan wishes to lull Kyle's faction and their Fey allies into a sense of complacency until he is able to more tightly grab the reins of power among the Faith.
----[] And finally, though we hesitate to even mention it because we cannot corroborate the accounts, we have encountered multiple individuals who claim Lucan and his followers have persecuted mages, even those who serve the Seven, if they refuse to join his cause, outright slaying some or attempting to force others to live their lives without the magic they have been 'cursed' to bear. This paints a disturbing picture of Lucan, of a man willing to say one thing but do another, and not merely the petty hypocrisies so common among flawed men, but more profound and egregious sins, such as virtually enslaving mages who would rather be left to their own business while simultaneously preaching acceptance and good will to those ignorant of his actions.
 
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[X] Try to speak to both of them
-[X] Viserys gently interjects before Lucan can fully disengage from the conversation he had just been leading, "Pardon my interruption, Brother Lucan, but could you please clarify your statement? If I understand correctly, you deem the practice of magic, so long as it is guided by the hand of the Seven, but what of those mages who reject such guidance? Surely, if they break no laws of the realm, do not seek to harm or exploit others, then they should be free to practice their magic in peace?"

Finally some one on one confrontation.
 
Goldfish said:
] Try to speak to both of them
-[] Viserys gently interjects before Lucan can fully disengage from the conversation he had just been leading, "Pardon my interruption, Brother Lucan, but could you please clarify your statement? If I understand correctly, you deem the practice of magic, so long as it is guided by the hand of the Seven, but what of those mages who reject such guidance? Surely, if they break no laws of the realm, do not seek to harm or exploit others, then they should be free to practice their magic in peace?"
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Ask about the goldcloaks specifically please.

Nobody here is going to give a shit about "heretics" especially in a humanistic context rather than a "how are you planning on dealing with the heretics" brother Lucan.
 
Goldfish said:
-[] When we find them, ask to speak with them alone for a moment, if possible. If not, ask that Kyle only have those he trusts most among his faction at hand to hear our news.
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Goldfish said:
--[] Go on to explain what we heard from Ollidor and Lucan's conversation, focusing especially on Lucan's statements that make it clear that no matter how lenient he seems, he appears to only trust those who worship the Seven with the ability to use magic. If this is true, then any support he appeared to offer Kyle in securing the right for mortals to bargain with the Fey, who themselves are innately supernatural creatures who practice magic in nearly every aspect of their lives and who by default worship no gods, is hollow at best, a slick bit of political maneuvering to secure his own place in the Conclave.
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Goldfish said:
---[] A much worse case, however, would be that Lucan wishes to lull Kyle's faction and their Fey allies into a sense of complacency until he is able to more tightly grab the reins of power among the Faith.
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Goldfish said:
----[] And finally, though we hesitate to even mention it because we cannot corroborate the accounts, we have encountered multiple individuals who claim Lucan and his followers have persecuted mages, even those who follow the Seven, if they refuse to join his cause, outright slaying some or attempting to force others to live their lives without the magic they have been 'cursed' to bear. This paints a disturbing picture of Lucan, of a man willing to say one thing but do another, and not merely the petty hypocrisies so common among flawed men, but more profound and egregious sins, such as virtually enslaving mages who would rather be left to their own business while simultaneously preaching acceptance and good will to those ignorant of his actions.
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This is best saved for later I think. After he expresses more militaristic tendencies.

I would straight up enjoy asking Lucan about those rumors though.
 
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