Lucan certainly is, and likely quite a few of the others, but I'd prefer not to write them all off without more information.It's not just going against us that's the problem, it's the active suppression of all magic that isn't theirs, the weakening of the Seven Kingdoms against the awakening supernatural threats, etc. If we were classifying by practices, they'd be enemies of humanity without a doubt. They're more worried about fighting us than they are about fighting Deep Ones, Fiends, Winterborn, etc.
A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
-
- Tags
- a song of ice and fire a sword without a hilt d&d 3.5 dungeons & dragons 100% high octane dragon fuel ave corvidae battle action dragon diplomacy best sister bureaucromancy delicious soul-stuff dragon dreams come true dragon ta'veren greatest uncle hubris is a coward's word in defiance of gods and men mammon's folly mutually assured mage's disjunction qm murderhobo top tier coatl
- Location
- Germany
And we also recruited enemies of all humanity, see Azema, Mereth, Leto and all the other Erinyes.
So my point still stands. We sacrifice people for one reason and spare them for another, but let us not pretend that those reasons are anything except convenience.
The law enforcement is keeping to certain rules, but we decidedly don't.
- Location
- United States
This is with the implication that at the end of the day despite the many reasons not to they still decide to fight us. We'll certainly do our intel-gathering beforehand, but if they decide to give us a reason to kill them it's going to be in front of a Heart Tree.
Speaking of recruiting enemies of humanity, we need dreamland monsters as pets for Dany. We also need to expand the Inquisition into the Dreamlands to start rifling through dreams and nightmares for intel.
It's not just going against us that's the problem, it's the active suppression of all magic that isn't theirs, the weakening of the Seven Kingdoms against the awakening supernatural threats, etc. If we were classifying by practices, they'd be enemies of humanity without a doubt. They're more worried about fighting us than they are about fighting Deep Ones, Fiends, Winterborn, etc.
That, and their sacrifice will spare people who actually deserve to be spared.
I can accept that. If they focus on mostly us to the point of ignoring other threats then I'm supporting the sacrifice but if they focus on us and real threats what then? Can totally see Brienne fit that category. Believe me I don't mind the sacrifices its following the laws we put together. Lead by example.
- Location
- United States
If they fall in line and play along as we shape the Faith of the Seven to our liking, then we simply use the shiny new minion.
ryuan
From Zero to Hero!
If that happens we tear down their temples down to the bedrock.
- Location
- Germany
Pretty much. Lucan is kind of operating under the assumption that he is always right and everyone should do what he says and blind to the fact that they decidedly don't.
However, I still advocate sacrificing every Seven champion we do have to fight, just like with every other enemy gods servants.
To me, the Seven champions, baring Lucan since that nutter is not worth the hot air, are a lot like our meeting with Melisandre. Try talking, because flipping them is hugely beneficial with us. If that doesn't work and they remain adamant in their desire to fight us, sacrifice them to damage their gods.
This is a war, between us and the gods, and Yss gullet and a Heart Tree are just another weapon in the arsenal. The reason we don't sacrifice slavers or common murderers is that they are not worth it. It would be like getting out the machine-guns to hunt squirrels. Sure, you can do it, but it just makes you look like an ass. But if the enemy is a deity, we need every tool in our arsenal to even make a dent.
Thank you for answering man. Got rid of my concerns.
Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
The line is less "that's horrible, why suggest that!"
Edit: Let me preamble this, we probably could get away with sacrificing Seven Champions we can't turn over the same reasons that we sacrificed Tia-chan's Clerics. Less power for our great enemies, since they do get a chance to recover it.
And more about the nature of the compromise we set up with our inner circle. It would certainly be convenient if we could bleed dry over the roots anyone who we would name an enemy, or even people who simply broke the law, but we don't because it's the particulars of the matter that keeps things neat and tidy, with no questions when we just absolutely have to gut someone and have their entrails strewn all about the place.
That demons and most other fiends (the ones who aren't a bit particularly ambitious or don't have any fear of possible fundamental changes to their nature) are usually not amicable to being diplomanced in good faith, being a fundamental part of their nature to betray and destroy. Devils are also directed by supernatural and overwhelming pride as well as a pathological need to tempt, so they typically don't react well to tempters. The Infernal Hierarchy has also likely trained cynicism and distrust of good offers as a matter of survival.
Humans at the least are usually not doing stuff worth lumping in with the irredeemable fiend fodder unless they are also in fact dealing with fiend fodder. Or moreover, they're not law breakers but enemies and as with many enemies not entirely against being convinced we hold the better bargain for them.
Last edited:
- Location
- Brazil
I'm with you there, I miss the D&D these days...
- Location
- florida
@Duesal can we see about getting the Inquisition into the ocean/wilderness before the dream realm?
Also, @Azel
This conversation has made me very unhappy.
And very tired.
I am fairly certain the warrior picking a child as his champion is him checking out of this war for a few years. If snowfire isn't willing to try flipping her I'll go for it.
Lastly, I would like to go try and (if not flip) then at least agree not to kill each other.
Also, @Azel
This conversation has made me very unhappy.
And very tired.
I am fairly certain the warrior picking a child as his champion is him checking out of this war for a few years. If snowfire isn't willing to try flipping her I'll go for it.
Lastly, I would like to go try and (if not flip) then at least agree not to kill each other.
- Location
- washington
Beyond humanly possible intelligence and knowledge being d&d characters I guess. I mean einstein would as a d&d character would have an embarrassingly low intelligence. Your logic is mostly fine and it is largely meta gaming as your saying. Its not like our enemies don't do it as well sometimes if not exactly often. There are more advanced knowledge out there anyway and lost civilizations that are more advanced than us not to even speak whatever the fuck other planes have going for them. Again I am not so much disagreeing with you I agree but there is some precedence for bullshit innovation with bullshit knowledge and intelligence.
Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
I think the gist of things is that those who have even bothered replying to the whole 'sacrifice Seven Champions' line of logic is that it's not a bad idea in principle, not that they are specifically singling out any one of them.
There are some pretty decent reasons why we should have saturate bombarded the general vicinity Mel was in just for being in it, but we didn't. We sat down to have a pleasant conversation, and she's way more of a threat than a few Seven Clerics bunched together at the same time scheming against us, namely because I don't think any three Seven clerics are even capable of agreeing on the best way of thwarting us.
There are some pretty decent reasons why we should have saturate bombarded the general vicinity Mel was in just for being in it, but we didn't. We sat down to have a pleasant conversation, and she's way more of a threat than a few Seven Clerics bunched together at the same time scheming against us, namely because I don't think any three Seven clerics are even capable of agreeing on the best way of thwarting us.
- Location
- washington
The general rule is if it was magic in books or show its even more magicy here right? So mel should be watched at all moments.
- Location
- Who knows?
. . . Guys. I just had the worst/best brain fart. What if the Mother is planning on doing something with Lysa? It kinda fits with the idea that the Seven are doing something with the weird Aryn baby and she's definitely sold out to worse for the chance to be a mom. It's also kind of out there enough that I don't think Blood raven or Varys would guess this if they didn't have outright proof.
- Location
- washington
Is anyone else scared wondering what the hell the faceless men are doing?
I dont mind the innovation. It could be because of supernatural intellect. It is just that the way we are designing weapons is very mordern. And we are making asumptions that a perrson born on a medival tech level would. This kind of innovation is pretty diffrent from what a person would even think of. It like we are just skipping steps in our methodolgy and our design philosopy. Why are we making jets instead of longboats. There has to be a reason for why we design things as we do.
Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
Technically we have a early-Renaissance tech-base to work off of, because of Essos, but your point is fair.
What I can say in defense of air ships is:
A) We saw multiple examples of such before we created the designs for our own.
B) We saw that nearly all examples made heavy use of enslaved or bargained-with elementals to power them, and decided that was a flaw in the design, so went to alternative spell theory. There are spells that deal with gravity, flight and levitation, so figuring out a means of powered flight that didn't rely on intelligent beings generating lift and thrust was inevitable.
C) The Planes clearly has some pretty heavy magi-tech leanings with their designs too, though they are more in the "we have perfected simplistic means of creating giant guns and flying ships to the point that they seem advanced" vein.
But, on the point of 'why are we innovating so quickly??' I concede all ground, other than rule of cool and at least trying to use spells as much as possible to achieve the effect, though the latitude we're given for such things all comes from @DragonParadox at the end of the day and he has basically implicitly said "MORE MAGITECH!" by virtue of not once denying a plan for magical technology.
So that would be one data point to not ignore here. The QM is not against it, which is, you know, at the core, probably why we have gotten away with half of the junk we did over the years.
What I can say in defense of air ships is:
A) We saw multiple examples of such before we created the designs for our own.
B) We saw that nearly all examples made heavy use of enslaved or bargained-with elementals to power them, and decided that was a flaw in the design, so went to alternative spell theory. There are spells that deal with gravity, flight and levitation, so figuring out a means of powered flight that didn't rely on intelligent beings generating lift and thrust was inevitable.
C) The Planes clearly has some pretty heavy magi-tech leanings with their designs too, though they are more in the "we have perfected simplistic means of creating giant guns and flying ships to the point that they seem advanced" vein.
But, on the point of 'why are we innovating so quickly??' I concede all ground, other than rule of cool and at least trying to use spells as much as possible to achieve the effect, though the latitude we're given for such things all comes from @DragonParadox at the end of the day and he has basically implicitly said "MORE MAGITECH!" by virtue of not once denying a plan for magical technology.
So that would be one data point to not ignore here. The QM is not against it, which is, you know, at the core, probably why we have gotten away with half of the junk we did over the years.
Last edited:
On the matter of killing Brianne, Given how you have played him thus far I did not think Viserys would not do it without first making every effort to change her mind since she is a child and thus can be assumed to have been tricked into service. Certainly many of your companions would be of the same opinion.
- Location
- washington
dp what would it even take for Viserys to kill a child thats not irreversibly mind controlled or some such beyond return thing? I'd think somewhere at not killing them would doom millions to death no matter what he did if he chose not to kill them. Not sure what below that extremely unlikely scenario.
The knowledge that is is the only way to achieve some greater goal like say saving thousands of people from death and suffering or preserving one of his companions against soul destruction etc...
Ultimately Viserys is in your hands there are thousands of circumstances where I would place it to a vote. What you would do under those circumstances would shape who Viserys is just like all your other decisions.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
I thought your question was why the Mother was waiting to select her Chosen? My response was a joke about her waiting until Rina qualified to be a Chosen of the Mother.
Modern day fighters use their wings for steering, too, yet can they frequently attachthousands of pounds of additional munitions or fuel tanks on wing-mounted hardpoints.
Like I said, magic would be needed to make the city-buster KKWs work against underwater targets.
Size makes a big difference for KKWs. The smaller bullet-sized ones I read about were able to hit with roughly the force of a .50 rifle round. Using D&D d20 Modern rules, a Barret .50 caliber sniper round inflicts 2d12 damage. That's why I suggested the damage range per KKW being somewhere between 1d6 and 4d6, based on the speed it is able to reach before impact. If a large number of them are launched on a targeted area, I would just say that everyone with X area suffers Y damage (for example; everything within a 10'x40ft' swath taking 4d6 damage).