I am absolutely not going to push for Singularity in ASWAH, but I do think that it is entirely possible within a reasonable timeframe.

I literally never disagreed with this premise. I just said that it was unlikely, in my opinion, for ASWAH-verse to hit singularity before DF Earth. On the basis that of your quibbles rely on utterly blatant manipulations of cheese anywhere they touch mechanics, and what is to me a flawed definition of the term Singularity. The Singularity isn't about 'creation of AI'. It's about a future point wherein advancement becomes something we can no longer predict. We can't see past it, what it'll bring.

Polymorph Any Object to create computers would, bluntly, mean casting it every twenty minutes and losing every piece of data you'd gathered in that time frame. It has duration factors, you'd be stretching them to screaming point.

I'm just going to completely avoid your theory crafting about Awakened Constructs. Divination, as shown in HT itself, does allow for a lot of test skipping. But it doesn't isolate faults. It can't tell you exactly where 'compile error' is coming from. You'd have to go through the data just like anyone else. I also, bluntly, feel that the idea that magic allows for the level of strides necessary that you've implied in neurology, psychology, etc. is just wrong. Like, seriously. Just no.

And finally, time travel is banned by any sane DM on the basis of simple sanity. If you try it, a Time Dragon eats you. You are dead. No save. Temporal acceleration is a little more plausible, but that just means that a demiplane somewhere with the accelerated time trait hits the singularity first. No Planetos. The difference might seem like a quibble itself, but it's a valid distinction.

So:

Locomotive:
- 2,000 IM (ritual) for the boiler
- 500 IM (enchanting) for the controls
- 900 IM (enchanting) for a decanter to supply water
- 100 tons of steel

Cars:
- 30 tons of steel
- 200 IM (enchanting) for an Unseen Servant

Then I would suggest the "average" train to be the locomotive, 8 cargo wagon transporting 100 tons of goods each and 2 passenger wagons for roughly 50 persons each.
That would come out to 400 tons of steel, 3,400 IM enchanting and 2,000 IM ritual cost for the boiler.

Something this really puts in perspective for me is how mindblowing it is for HT Viserys to see technology like this thrown around like it's commonplace. We can't, literally cannot, reduce the enchanting costs. Modern humanity has gotten...perhaps a little too good at reducing construction costs whilst holding (barely) to design tolerances. Trains are still expensive, don't get me wrong. But they don't require literal magic to build. And there's also the simple point of age and scale. Planetos civilisation, from what we know, is several thousand years old. And I'm meaning written history here. They're stuck in the medieval age - though we're working to change that. DF humanity took...a similar amount of time (assume Valyria did in fact stand for five thousand years) to reach a level of technological capacity centuries beyond that. With supernatural dangers that were arguably in the same ballparks, and far fewer means for people to effectively fight them.
 
@Azel Can you please add this to the Infrastructure page? We've had this thing for months and have used it a few times to great effect.

Imperial Demiplate #1:
This permanent Demiplane has a volume of 340,000 cubic feet. It measures 110 feet long, 100 feet wide, and 30 feet high. At each end is a dedicated portal alcove 10 feet deep which is 30 feet wide and 30 feet high. One of the portal alcoves holds the permanent 20ft x 20ftx Gate connecting to Sorcerer's Deep, while the other is used to temporarily connect to other locations. The Demiplane itself, except for the minimum necessary space needed to open portal Gates in the alcoves, is warded against travel magic by a Forbiddance spell at an 18th effective caster level. The small unwarded sliver of space, when not occupied by a temporary portal Gate, is filled in with stone to prevent unauthorized Gates from connecting to it.
 
Recent articles on the state of neural networks disagree. For example, the one that was given a passage that had some French in it, and promptly taught itself French. Not particularly good French, but it wasn't told to learn French in the first place. It chose to do so by itself.

We're much, much closer than people think.
Nonono.
Ok first off, will we be able to build an AI as smart as a human? sure
As flexible and smarter than a human? probably
A singularity? almost impossible, sure a steep growth period, but not a singularity*.
*I say that with a similar conviction as P!=NP, it would be very neat if it were equal but really really unlikely. (to put P=NP less computer sciency, it's the same as saying; "I can recognize good music and because of that I can create good music in the same time.")

The issue with the singularity are the assumptions that there are a) infinite improvements and b) that the time it takes to go from improvement to improvement decreases with every improvement.
Or less abstractly spoken belief in "infinite intelligence", "that something complex and fairly complicated becomes easier to improve over time", or that kind of "a machine can hold itself in itself to improve itself".
 
Downloading the Internet is a daunting task at first blush, but we can certainly eliminate much of the cruft and cut it down to a more manageable workload.

The first thing is Viserys would have to accept is that he's being imprecise. Does he mean the traffic, the topology, the behavior, the data? If the last, the subset of useful data would require sorting and sieving anyway, so it'd be horribly wasteful to scoop up everything instead of only keeping the good stuff (although he really could do worse than infiltrating the NSA, because they're likely to have categorized a lot of the data already).

Really, I suspect you could get the most useful data to well under an exabyte. The mere act of sorting and tagging it would also serve to make it massively more usable than it otherwise would be.

Of course, then there's the actual hardware. That's much harder, because that mostly derives from proprietary manufacturing practices. As a consolation, that would possibly obviate the proliferation of x86, so... :)
 
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Something this really puts in perspective for me is how mindblowing it is for HT Viserys to see technology like this thrown around like it's commonplace. We can't, literally cannot, reduce the enchanting costs. Modern humanity has gotten...perhaps a little too good at reducing construction costs whilst holding (barely) to design tolerances. Trains are still expensive, don't get me wrong. But they don't require literal magic to build. And there's also the simple point of age and scale. Planetos civilisation, from what we know, is several thousand years old. And I'm meaning written history here. They're stuck in the medieval age - though we're working to change that. DF humanity took...a similar amount of time (assume Valyria did in fact stand for five thousand years) to reach a level of technological capacity centuries beyond that. With supernatural dangers that were arguably in the same ballparks, and far fewer means for people to effectively fight them.
Mind you that 21th century earth has still a good 200 to 300 years on the current state of Planetos, even with Viserys triggering the industrial revolution.
The presence of magic as a an additional natural force means that the process will go down a lot different then on Earth, but I think Viserys take is more "with a century or two of refining and expanding on what we have, my home can look like this".
 
Part MMDCLXXXI: Sharper than Swords
Sharper than Swords

Twenty-Fifth Day of the Eighth Month 293 AC

Six champions stand before you this evening upon the sands, they had fought and bled, showing skill endurance both. Five of them were born to the Seven Kingdoms, though they could not have been more different from each other, a sixth not born but made to be the puppet of dark powers but transcending his fate through will and hard-earned wisdom. None here save perhaps Ser Criston Storm precisely fit what you had vaguely envisaged as the winners of these tests of skill, wandering blades and younger sons seeking titles of nobility. Certainly Valaena and Asha have no need of new arms and armor nor does Scarbrand need a dagger save as a trophy to mark his deeds.

Having spoken to Dany about Sandor after returning to the keep you discover, perhaps unsurprisingly, that she had a hand in ensuring that the Viper kept his banter friendly during the spar by explaining as much as you had guessed of his story. 'I don't think we should just treat him like a sellsword, like say Bronn, working for his keep. He needs to belong somewhere, to have some task beyond killing as he is bid'.

From there one idea had flowed into another, suggestions made and passed aside until your sister happened upon the most fortuitous. Sandor is used to seeing cruelty and authority paired as one. Likely as not he will read those things together from sheer instinct for a while longer, unless of course one were to present him with a charge so unusual that he would have to address it with his eyes wide open.

"Sandor of House Clegane," Dany interjects into your award speech at the pre-determined moment. "Having accepted not only arms and armor but service to House Targaryen, I would now make a request of you if you would hear it."

For his part the warrior looks confused, but not disgruntled. There might even be a smile pulling ever so slightly at his newly unscarred face.

"I would ask you serve as my sworn sword, until such a time that peace should reign and you may have your just reward as a leal bannerman." The words carried across Essos by enchanted mirrors might as well have been: 'until Tywin Lannister's head can serve as a drinking cup' for all most would read into them. The House that Tytos Lannister had raised up to account for a moment of weakness and that Tywin made a weapon is now at war with itself, with one son having taken up arms against Casterly Rock besides their mortal foes. It really is quite a pity you cannot scry the Butcher in his lair. His face when he hears the news will be a wonder to behold.

"I accept, your Highness," Sandor rumbles, using a title for the first time since you have laid eyes on him. He sounds surprised, though certainly no more so than the crowd, his House's history having long since been turned over by the city's rumor mill. Such an uncommon degree of trust given to a man who had personally served both Tywin Lannister and his daughter would have quite a few Westerosi lords who might have counted themselves too far into bed with the Lannisters to ponder their options anew.

Again old King Jaehaerys words about the worth of kindness prove true.

By contrast to the Hound's rather unusual reputation the other winner of the melee is at once well known to the people of Sorcerer's Deep and hidden by a glamour. Valaena Velaryon had come very far from the girl who dreamed of wedding bells, a dragonrider, a warrior of note and skill who had slain not only men but things more terrible by far, bearing armor of enchanted silver and a chain forged in Hell, her greater worries are not the battles to come, but rather what her parents will think of the path she had chosen. By her own admission Monford knows some of her deeds, his lady wife likely none, and from your mother's recollections of her time as a Lady-in-Waiting you suspect Valaena's fears are not unfounded.

Yet the plan Valaena had happened upon, to offer some arcane trinket, some simple gift to bridge the gap of understanding, will not serve her as Tyene had been quick to point out when presented with the notion. To address the anger Valaena wishes to forestall one must look to the fer behind it built upon the brick and mortar of dynastic politics, one must either inherit land and position or marry into it, with the first being common for men and the second for women. To deny that Elysa Velaryon nee Celtigar would see as madness, unless of course one were to take another simpler approach, one you had been intending to offer to the winner of the melee from the start though with Valaena you can afford to be much more generous than with most given all the times she has rewarded your trust in full.

What lands did you decide to grant Valaena?

[] Offer her existing lands publicly
-[] The Southern Disputed Lands
--[] County
--[] Barony
-[] Golden Fields
--[] Duchy and County
--[] Only County
[] The Province of Draconys
--[] County
--[] Barony

[] Privately promise her lands in Westeros
-[] Write in

[] Write in


OOC: I know I said Valaena does not want land, and indeed at this point administering lands is far from the top of her priority list, but then I realized that actually being handed lands would help smooth over things with her mother far more than any ordinary gift could, because when you come right down to it that outrage she wants to avoid stems from fear that she would not fit anywhere in Elysa's view of the world. Being handed lands would go a long way to mitigate things.
 
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@Azel Can you please add this to the Infrastructure page? We've had this thing for months and have used it a few times to great effect.

Imperial Demiplate #1:
This permanent Demiplane has a volume of 340,000 cubic feet. It measures 110 feet long, 100 feet wide, and 30 feet high. At each end is a dedicated portal alcove 10 feet deep which is 30 feet wide and 30 feet high. One of the portal alcoves holds the permanent 20ft x 20ftx Gate connecting to Sorcerer's Deep, while the other is used to temporarily connect to other locations. The Demiplane itself, except for the minimum necessary space needed to open portal Gates in the alcoves, is warded against travel magic by a Forbiddance spell at an 18th effective caster level. The small unwarded sliver of space, when not occupied by a temporary portal Gate, is filled in with stone to prevent unauthorized Gates from connecting to it.
Done, though I've made it a Demiplane instead of a Demiplate. What would you really do with half a extra-planar plate? Place half a extra-planar meal on it?
 
The presence of magic as a an additional natural force means that the process will go down a lot different then on Earth, but I think Viserys take is more "with a century or two of refining and expanding on what we have, my home can look like this".

Oh, that's the final take, no question. It's just the getting there, and understanding exactly what it means to become like the world he's currently stuck in. Processing everything it'll take to become that will take a while.
 
OOC: I know I said Valaena does not want land and indeed at this point administering lands is far from the top of her priority list, but then I realized that actually being handed lands would help smooth over things with her mother far more than any ordinary gift could, because when you come right down to it that outrage she wants to avoid stems from fear that she would not fit anywhere in Elysa's view of the world. Being handed lands would would go a long way to mitigate things.
Well, personally I think it would be far more helpful in the long term to change her mother's view on the world than to make her fit into it better.
 
Well, personally I think it would be far more helpful in the long term to change her mother's view on the world than to make her fit into it better.

Maybe but Valaena is not exactly taking a cold analytical view of this. she wants her parents to be happy and proud of her.

@DragonParadox, have you calculated the Valyrian Steel prizes that the melee winners will ask for?
  1. Sandor wants a two handed sword
  2. Valaena wants a longsowrd she is probably going to just hand off to her father since she does not need a new weapon
 
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-[] The Southern Disputed Lands
--[] Duchy and County
That Duchy level title is held by Uthero now.
[] The Province of Draconys
--[] Duchy and County
This one by Yrael.

@DragonParadox, do you perhaps mean County and Barony level titles?

I would also like to add that I would prefer not to hand out inheritable duchies if we can avoid it in favor of creating more appointed governorships.

[X] Privately promise her lands
-[X] The political situation is still too much in flux to name names, but you were counting on landing Valaena in a region where her presence as a Dragonrider would serve to smooth over troubles.
-[X] The current candidates you have in mind:
--[X] The Midlands (former southern Riverlands)
--[X] The Heartlands (border region between the Riverlands, Crownlands, Westerlands and Reach)
--[X] The Marches (border region between the Reach and the Stormlands, bordering Dorne)
--[X] New Ghis (it's a nice little island, fitting for a Velarion)
 
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1. Planetos doesn't need to be fully industrialised to hit singularity. Singularity is "creation of an artificial intelligence capable of rapidly self-improving and/or self-replicating" and generally presumed to be able to produce material things or at least conduct research and engineering tasks.
Not "post-scarcity society" or anything. Using magic we can get infinite raw materials without needing to mine/collect/handmake them and we can use Polymorph Any Object cheese to make precise machinery, so we can simply have an expensive research center in SD if we want to achieve Singularity.
Most of that would be achieved with a Creation Forge.
 
@DragonParadox, what about granting Valaena an appointed position for now, which will later be replaced by a hereditary one?

She is fine with just the promise of land later. Being made the administrator of lands he will not have much time for would make her feel guilty for shrinking her duties. A lord/lady may have a steward, but an imperial administrator who has to hand out their duties to someone else has, in her opinion, just failed
 
She is fine with just the promise of land later. Being made the administrator of lands he will not have much time for would make her feel guilty for shrinking her duties. A lord/lady may have a steward, but an imperial administrator who has to hand out their duties to someone else has, in her opinion, just failed
Fair enough. I was just thinking her mother might react positively to that.

As for that, she can tell her mother straight up that we want to grant her land, but something more prestigious then the frontiers and backwaters we can currently hand out.
 
Yrael having that Duchy isn't much of a problem, Yrael also has Mantarys, and he has no ambition at all, so while rearranging things right now would be awkward, as while Yrael wouldn't mind, as long as he could trust the new ruler would treat the people well, rearranging things five minutes after setting them down would be rather unprofessional, but we could easily grant her the county and barony level titles, with a promise that we would speak with Yrael about him abdicating in her favor for that area, once she has proven that she's worthy of ruling it, and once enough time has passed, that it don't look like royal disfavor on Yrael, but just like Yrael deciding to cut down on his workload, by promoting a competent lower lord.

Yrael is the one lord we have, who has absolutely no interest in keeping his titles, so while if we want to split his domains up, we need to make sure it don't make him look bad, and he need to be convinced they will be in good hands, Yrael will not at all resent having his power lessened by losing territory.
 
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[X] Azel

What about this instead, @Azel?

[] Privately promise her lands
-[] The political situation is still too much in flux to name names, but you were counting on landing Valaena in a region where her presence as a Dragonrider would serve to smooth over troubles.
-[] Ask Valaena whats land she desires from those currently available, or which will become available in the near future.
 
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