A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

Goldfish · Mar 14, 2019

TalonofAnathrax said:
I dislike Sandor as a sworn sword for Daenerys. She doesn't need one, and the very idea is terrible. Her personal strength (of character and strength of arms) has been a fundamental trait for over 8000 pages now. And you want to hire a babysitter for her? Some goon to follow her around and look angrily at people for her?
This is ridiculous!

He almost lost to a level 11 Oberyn, so I expect him to be level 11 or 12 max.

I don't particularly care for him acting as her bodyguard, but that's the will of the thread so I'm trying to mitigate the aspects I dislike most.

Sandor doesn't need to follow her around or act as her babysitter. What he can do is serve as a meatshield for Dany and an extra pair of killing hands, like Richard is for Viserys. Action economy is king, after all, and it will be convenient to always know Sandor is available should Dany have a dangerous task to undertake.

When Dany is chilling out in SD, flying around as a Dragon, playing normal for her mother, etc., Sandor can be in the practice yard, brothel, God's Wood, Scholarium, or wherever. But when it's time to get shit done, he'll be there to serve as an adequate distraction while the little girl murders the bad guys.

Envy34 · Mar 14, 2019

[X] Azel

Snowfire · Mar 14, 2019

@Azel you know that time a while back when you got super pissed at me not replying to your arguments?

You're doing that to me right now. Could you not?

Crake · Mar 14, 2019

Snowfire said:
@Azel you know that time a while back when you got super pissed at me not replying to your arguments?

You're doing that to me right now. Could you not?

You flatly raised one point and Talon raised a handful of issues.

Talon's position is easier to approach, so he didn't bother wasting his energy with "no, bad, stop doing that".

Quite frankly I am happy when you two just lay down your position and promptly ignore each other, because then otherwise it turns into escalating your argument until it becomes less about the substance of the vote and more about being absolute in your own judgement.

Azel · Mar 14, 2019

Snowfire said:
@Azel you know that time a while back when you got super pissed at me not replying to your arguments?

You're doing that to me right now. Could you not?

Sorry, but I'm having trouble taking this seriously, because after making a vote to have Sandor serve as Dany's Richard, @TalonofAnathrax and you are for some reason accusing me of taking away Dany's agency and setting Sandor up to stand next to her bed and creepily stare at her all night or something in that vein.

Whatever. Really.

Walliseatscheese · Mar 14, 2019

[X] Goldfish

I'm voting this one because I liked his joke marginally more and it took a second read to notice it.

TalonofAnathrax said:
He'll also die horrible in any real level-appropriate encounters for her !

I'm moderately confused by all of your post, but am going to focus on this.

I don't quite recall DP's post on it, but I'm fairly sure he said that Sanders was roughly Bronn's level (13) which is high B Team low Companion level. Xor is level 12 for instance and the majority of our Companions are level 14. Dany herself is level 16. For a Martial, three levels isn't all that much in the "class features to not die aka HP" department.

Snowfire said:
And yet, it should be her choice who she takes as her Sworn Sword. You are trying to remove that from her, which in itself is a removal of agency.

No. Fuck no, in fact.

Snowfire said:
Look, all we're asking for is that you give her the choice. If she says yes, no issue

Based on existing trends and DP's writing, Azel's vote would most likely include Dany being consulted on the manner.

I honestly thought that was a basic thing that was considered backgrounded, like cleaning up our own blood after it's been spilled.

Of course, a quick resolution to this is to ask @DragonParadox how Dany would feel about Sanders becoming her own Richard, and table the rest of the conversation until he weighs in.

TalonofAnathrax said:
Let's not even mention the Kingsguard..

Very specifically, Kingsguard are agents of the King and have been sent out to do his or her Will on many occasions in Iron Throne history. We just don't see that in canon because Robert is a shit king and Aerys was literally a paranoid mad man.

Think of them more like how we use our Companions to lead missions, except their off mission duties amounted to "Protect the Royal Family and Train."

mrsean22 · Mar 14, 2019

[X] Goldfish

Tomcost · Mar 14, 2019

DragonParadox said:
I was never supposed to be a lord, either. I can barely read, don't know my numbers worth shit. I don't see why some poor bastards who just got their chains broken have to be stuck with me just because I was the last one standing on the sand

By Trios' unexisting holy balls, this guy is one of the wisest guys we have ever found.

Let's take good care of him.

Taut_Templar · Mar 14, 2019

Are people seriously arguing against making Sandor Dany's sworn sword? Why?

Azel · Mar 14, 2019

[X] Assign Sandor his due entry in the sheets of people to commandeer around and decide what to with him during the turn-vote as usual.

There. Sorry for wanting to do something else then write "NPC acquired".

zxzx24 · Mar 14, 2019

As a 5e dm I feel the need to say I hate that all my friends dont want to play pathfinder/3.5 anymore.

*sigh*

Azel said:
Uhm... skilled PCs willing to murder nasty shit for money should hire on with the Inquisition.

Azel said:
I see no particular reason for this. We've got the Legion, the Inquisition, the Scholarium and the Companions for that.

DragonParadox said:
On the matter of an adventurer's guild most of your companions would not care a great deal but one would very much care. Malarys would find the notion of a gathering of random mercenaries with that sort of power deeply offensive, not lest in the implication that there would be a niche for it to exist in. That would imply a lot of law-keeping institutions are not doing their job as intended

@Azel Remember how I suggested we have the Children of the Forest invent Zoo School?

zxzx24 said:
@Duesal we have this program in Florida called zoo school. You go to a zoo and learn about animals and nature for a few weeks out of the year rather than boring stuffy classroom.

I would suggest doing something similar with the scholarium and the children of the forest.

The normal school I mean. They take a couple of weeks out of the year to look into the wilderness and have the children of the forest teach them about the wild.

Because that's been one of the biggest sticking points between men and elves in fiction. Humans simply don't understand enough about the environment and how it works and effects them. The elves. In turn, think it simply isn't possible to teach humans about that kind of stuff.

Also, I imagine the children of the forest would take quite well to being park rangers.

If your looking to stamp out the adventurer niche you need park rangers willing to go out and check the wilderness for things like goblin camps and doom marshes and corpse tree abominations. Which the inquisition currently isn't doing.

It is not urgent mind you, but...

Snowfire said:
@Azel you know that time a while back when you got super pissed at me not replying to your arguments?

You're doing that to me right now. Could you not?

We can, and likely will ask Danny about it. She also apparently likes the guy and is invested in his well being enough to go after Oberyn for him.

Snowfire · Mar 14, 2019

Azel said:
Sorry, but I'm having trouble taking this seriously, because after making a vote to have Sandor serve as Dany's Richard, @TalonofAnathrax and you are for some reason accusing me of taking away Dany's agency and setting Sandor up to stand next to her bed and creepily stare at her all night or something in that vein.

Whatever. Really.

Ok, let me try to explain then. Speaking generally, Viserys doesn't really make executive decisions for the people around him that he trusts and cares for. Dany is one of those people, and though he dislikes what she does, he also understands that she'll do it anyway and so there's no point arguing. I'm not really sure where the desire to make Sandor Dany's Richard came from, to be honest I have some issues with it, but if it's what the thread wants, ok. What I would vastly prefer though, is at making it an offer for her instead of just going "Oh hey, have a Sandor." Giving her a melee beatstick to soak up the blows is fine, is great even. Making that person Sandor? Sure, I guess. I'm not really sure why, but sure.

However where I have an issue is where Viserys is going "Oh hey sis have a Sworn Sword" with there having been no effective on-screen narrative buildup to make that make sense, and also where the action itself appears to undermine Dany's own ability to choose her companions. We're not assigning her a babysitter, I never said we were, and I never said anything about how Sandor would 'stand next to her her bed and creepily stare at her all night'. That's not a fair argument. I'm mostly in the camp of @Goldfish here. Sandor is almost certainly going to end up as Dany's Sworn Sword, fine. But how that's done does in fact matter, and...I'm sorry, it just doesn't feel like something Viserys would do. He'd give his sister the choice. There's no effective mechanical cost here, because we'll just send Sandor with her if she goes on missions with Richard. But Sword Sword is a title with weight, and that, like how she took on Glyra, shouldn't be something that we decide for her.

I get that these arguments often 404 for you. But can you just...try to understand where I'm coming from? I'm not against putting Sandor in this position beyond a general 'meh'. It's the how that I have an issue with.

Goldfish · Mar 14, 2019

Can y'all not argue over such a minor issue? I don't even get what the argument is about this time, beyond @TalonofAnathrax not wanting Sandor to be Dany's minion, and somehow that leading to @Azel and @Snowfire clashing?

@Azel My competing vote is hardly different from yours, it just takes the time to ask Dany her opinion. I think she's already decided to make him a project, so it shouldn't be in doubt what she will choose.

Crake · Mar 14, 2019

Goldfish said:
Can y'all not argue over such a minor issue? I don't even get what the argument is about this time, beyond @TalonofAnathrax not wanting Sandor to be Dany's minion, and somehow that leading to @Azel and @Snowfire clashing?

@Azel My competing vote is.hardly different from yours, it just takes the time to ask Dany her opinion. I think she's already decided to make him a project, so it shouldn't be in doubt what she will choose.

Agreed.

T_of_A · Mar 14, 2019

Azel said:
Sorry, but I'm having trouble taking this seriously, because after making a vote to have Sandor serve as Dany's Richard, @TalonofAnathrax and you are for some reason accusing me of taking away Dany's agency and setting Sandor up to stand next to her bed and creepily stare at her all night or something in that vein.

Whatever. Really.

1. Why are you lumping me in with Snowfire? Everyone who isn't with you is against you?

2. My objections came from my understanding of the term "sworn sword". Apparently my understanding of this term was incorrect. Consider my objections withdrawn.

[X] Goldfish

Snowfire · Mar 14, 2019

Goldfish said:
Can y'all not argue over such a minor issue? I don't even get what the argument is about this time, beyond @TalonofAnathrax not wanting Sandor to be Dany's minion, and somehow that leading to @Azel and @Snowfire clashing?

@Azel My competing vote is hardly different from yours, it just takes the time to ask Dany her opinion. I think she's already decided to make him a project, so it shouldn't be in doubt what she will choose.

I used something more aggressive language than usual in my support of your vote, after having made a similar point a while before and being promptly ignored. I'm also a little stir-crazy right now.

Azel · Mar 14, 2019

Goldfish said:
Can y'all not argue over such a minor issue? I don't even get what the argument is about this time, beyond @TalonofAnathrax not wanting Sandor to be Dany's minion, and somehow that leading to @Azel and @Snowfire clashing?

@Azel My competing vote is.hardly different from yours, it just takes the time to ask Dany her opinion. I think she's already decided to make him a project, so it shouldn't be in doubt what she will choose.

Which is precisely why this pisses me off so much. Not that you made that competing vote, but this whole... thing... itself.

@Snowfire, I will respond to you once my blood pressure is no longer RAGE / 100.

TalonofAnathrax said:
1. Why are you lumping me in with Snowfire? Everyone who isn't with you is against you?

When two people yell at me for the same thing I tend to group them up.

Taut_Templar · Mar 14, 2019

[X] Goldfish

I got no idea why Talon's pitching a fit, but @Snowfire - while I get mental health is your thing, this particular instince is just absurd.

zxzx24 · Mar 14, 2019

This is more of a sudden speedbump than a blow up.

We got any park rangers in the thread?

We have a lot of untamed wilderness to keep an eye on.

Snowfire · Mar 14, 2019

LonelyWolf999 said:
I got no idea why Talon's pitching a fit, but @Snowfire - while I get mental health is your thing, this particular instince is just absurd.

I brought up the point that it was something that should probably be Dany's choice an hour ago. I was totally ignored. I am also, as mentioned, a little stir-crazy right now. So when Goldfish made a vote I agreed with in general, I was aggressive in my wordplay. Too aggressive, yeah, ok, that's been made clear. Fact stands that this could have been solved far easier by someone giving the barest hint of acknowledgement to what I'd said. That didn't happen and, well, here we are.

Anyway, done, whatever. I'll go back to working on the HT interlude.

Duesal · Mar 14, 2019

Snowfire said:
I brought up the point that it was something that should probably be Dany's choice an hour ago. I was totally ignored. I am also, as mentioned, a little stir-crazy right now. So when Goldfish made a vote I agreed with in general, I was aggressive in my wordplay. Too aggressive, yeah, ok, that's been made clear. Fact stands that this could have been solved far easier by someone giving the barest hint of acknowledgement to what I'd said. That didn't happen and, well, here we are.

Anyway, done, whatever. I'll go back to working on the HT interlude.

I'm pretty sure you're conflating the fast pace of the thread with being ignored. I have zero memory of a post like this.

TotallyNotEvil · Mar 14, 2019

Azel said:
What Richard to Viserys is a sworn sword and if there is one thing we can say about that relationship, then that Richard tends to be very far away from Viserys a lot of times

Actually, I'm pretty sure Richard is our sworn shield.

He's done admirably in the role since level 4.

[X] Goldfish

T_of_A · Mar 14, 2019

LonelyWolf999 said:
I got no idea why Talon's pitching a fit

I understood the vote as "give Daenerys a weirdo with a sword tasked with following her around constantly", which doesn't sound like a great present for a family member who's always made a big deal of her independence, freedom and "not being coddled".
Apparently I misunderstood, and Sandor will instead be "on call" for her whenever needed. Why not?

Snowfire · Mar 14, 2019

Duesal said:
I'm pretty sure you're conflating the fast pace of the thread with being ignored. I have zero memory of a post like this.

Directly after your vote for Azel's vote. Might have gotten lost in the Adventurer's Guild posting, but I'll be the first to admit that I'm not entirely rational right now.

Knack · Mar 14, 2019

[X] Goldfish

Oh kay then dudes looks like everyone agrees it's silly to argue about this now to more important things (Such as writing more omakes)

A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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