People who are voting for [] Plan Industrialization, the only difference between it and Rebuild and Expand is the logging vs the swamps, could we come to a compromise and combine our votes?

The reason I picked the swamps is because I wanted to get one of the two year options started right away, next turn we can use our remaining slot to do one of the one year options like the logging.

@banjo2E
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I just counted up how many actions we will have next turn that aren't locked in, we will have 5 actions, so the odds of us being able to spend 3100 gold on only 5 actions is really low, so there should be no problem with our debt.
 
I just counted up how many actions we will have next turn that aren't locked in, we will have 5 actions, so the odds of us being able to spend 3100 gold on only 5 actions is really low, so there should be no problem with our debt.
debt is more than the money it is resources in total we have. You are also not taking into account that we are going to be getting newer actions as well we have no idea of that cost.
 
debt is more than the money it is resources in total we have. You are also not taking into account that we are going to be getting newer actions as well we have no idea of that cost.
well, Questor DID confirm we can go into debt (it surprised me actually), and that STAYING there for a few turns means game over.

I would avoid it anyway, just in case, but it's at least an option.
and of course it's always good to delay upkeep if it isn't necessary.
 
debt is more than the money it is resources in total we have. You are also not taking into account that we are going to be getting newer actions as well we have no idea of that cost.

My point is that next turn if we go into debt we will have 3100 to spend after paying off our debt, but only 5 actions available, which 3100 should easily cover even with new actions.
 
My point is that next turn if we go into debt we will have 3100 to spend after paying off our debt, but only 5 actions available, which 3100 should easily cover even with new actions.
We can't go around putting our selves into debt every time we have a bunch of high-cost actions. Going into debt is to be for emergencies not when people are impatient. If we were still in the war I would be all for going into debt to get everything back up, but we are not. The threat has been defeated and it will not return for some time. The time we need to use to grow our economy and population not shrink it at the first opportunity. We need to be smart and build up our treasury again so we have funds for when things go bad not constantly removing funds so when something does come up we have to put our Empire in a worse position.
 
We can't go around putting our selves into debt every time we have a bunch of high-cost actions. Going into debt is to be for emergencies not when people are impatient. If we were still in the war I would be all for going into debt to get everything back up, but we are not. The threat has been defeated and it will not return for some time. The time we need to use to grow our economy and population not shrink it at the first opportunity. We need to be smart and build up our treasury again so we have funds for when things go bad not constantly removing funds so when something does come up we have to put our Empire in a worse position.

There's nothing wrong with debt, debt can very much be a good thing, going into debt temporarily to boost the economy is a great thing. I think your problem is that you see debt as a on inherently bad thing, but it's not, as long as it's controlled it can be really beneficial.
 
Hey new to this quest I've just read the main points and fixing to read the omakes

I like both the rebuild and expand and industrialization plan both seem pretty good.

So if someone could make a plan that got the voters of those two to agree I'd vote for it
 
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Hey new to this quest I've just read the main points and fixing to read the omakes

I like both the rebuild and expand and industrialization plan both seem pretty good.

So if someone could make a plan that got the voters of those two to agree I'd vote for it
They're practically the same and I'm trying to negotiate with them to form a compromise vote.
 
Tally time.
Adhoc vote count started by Raptor580 on Feb 20, 2019 at 9:41 PM, finished with 140 posts and 48 votes.

  • [X] Plan: Let them grieve
    [X] Plan: Rebuild and Expand
    [X] Plan Industrialization
    -[X] The Peregrine Line-Watchtowers
    -[X] Licking Wounds
    -[X] The Neighborly Thing to Do
    -[X] Tomb of Fallen Heroes
    -[X] I'm a Lumberjack and I'm OK
    -[X] Coke-Fired Blast Furnaces
    -[X] Cannon Foundry
    -[X] Into the Storm
    -[X] Getting Swole
    -[X] Combing the Archives
    [X] Plan Recovery and Reparations.
    [X] Plan: The Southern Wall
    -[X] Hans, Get the Flamethrower: Cost: 400. Time: One Year. Reward: +4 Static Flame Projectors
    -[X] The Peregrine Line-Watchtowers: Cost: 1000. Time: Two Years. Reward: Southern Border Watchtowers built, removes possibility of surprise attacks, may discourage raids into core territory.
    -[X] The Neighborly Thing to Do: Cost: 1000. Time: One Year. Reward: Better relations with Yak Clans, Yaks gain access to steel tools, armor and weapons. Chance of Success: 70%
    -[X] Tomb of Fallen Heroes: Cost: 800. Time: One Year. Reward: War Memorial Constructed, Bonus to morale and certain combat rolls.
    -[X] I'm a Lumberjack and I'm OK: Cost: 150. Time: One Year. Reward: Logging income. Chance of Success: 70%
    -[X] Coke-Fired Blast Furnaces: Cost: 600. Time: Two Years. Reward: Increased Iron/Steel Production, new Learning Actions Unlocked, Can now Smelt Orichalcum.
    -[X] Cannon Ships: Cost: 100. Reward: New Ship Class Designed.
    -[X] Yakity Yak: Cost: 300. Time: One Year. Reward: New Intel on Yak Clans and the Fallout from the Winter War, possibility of new Intrigue Options. Chance of Success: 60%
    -[X] Getting Swole: Cost: 0. Time: One Year. Reward: Increased martial stat, chance to upgrade Toned Trait, chance to improve Gabriella's opinion of you. Chance of Success: 55%
    -[X] Small Blades: Cost: 50. Time: One Year. Reward: Master-Crafted Daggers for Gawain and Gwyndlyn.
    [X] Recovery
    [X] The Peregrine Line-Watchtowers: You snagged a victory and prevented an invasion of your country by the skin of your beak, and it was a costly victory at that. You're not stupid enough to think that you've seen the last of that foe forever, and if you have to worry about another invasion you're going to need serious fortifications along your Southern Border. Your military leaders have drawn up a multi-year step-by-step plan to turn the Peregrine mountains into a nearly impassible fortress. The first step, much like the plan to fortify the Black Cliffs, begins with watchtowers. Well, technically they're watchtowers but they're more like miniature forts designed to act as signaling stations. The squadrons of soldiers assigned to these defenses won't be able to repel any significant assaults, but they'll discourage infiltration and raids into your territory, and give vital warning in the event of another border assault. And they will serve as the foundation for a much larger and more impressive set of fortifications. Cost: 1000. Time: Two Years. Reward: Southern Border Watchtowers built, removes possibility of surprise attacks, may discourage raids into core territory.
    [X] Licking Wounds: Your Forces were ravaged at the battle of Redstone Pass. Thousands of Griffons, Dogs and Yaks were killed in the defense of their homes. The enemy may have been defeated, but the Dark King is still out there, and you've no idea what state he or his slave-kingdom are in. If he returns before you can rebuild your forces, you won't stand a chance. The casualty rates from the battle were a shock to your people...but they know that any war against your Southern Neighbor is a war for the very survival of your culture. If you call for citizens to fill the ranks of your army, you know that they shall answer. Cost: 3560. Time: One Year. Reward: Army returned to Pre-War Numbers.
    [X] Eastern Expedition: You don't really know anything about them, but they haven't done anything to harm your people, which already places them a league ahead of your Southern Neighbor. Send a ship and some volunteer diplomats to make contact and establish some sort of diplomatic relations. At the very least, it would be nice to know that you don't have to worry about a war on two fronts. Cost: 300. Time: One Year. Reward: Contact made with Eastern Neighbors. Chance of Success: 80%
    [X] Tomb of Fallen Heroes: Thousands of Imperial citizens died in defense of their homeland at Redstone Pass. And, the world being the dangerous place that it is, thousands more are likely to give their lives in service to the Empire at some point in the near-future. Such sacrifice deserves more than a simple headstone or makeshift memorial in a town square. It deserves a monument. A hall of ancestors greater than any other in the Empire, a building like the great temples of the ancient Gods. The honored dead deserve no less. Cost: 800. Time: One Year. Reward: War Memorial Constructed, Bonus to morale and certain combat rolls.
    [X] Steam Pumped Land Drainage: Due to the mountainous and heavily forested nature of the Griffonlands, arable land is often at a premium. If one wishes to establish a farm, one must clear the land of trees (and the beasts that live among them), or risk trying to farm on rocks. There are a handful of places in the Empire that would be prime farmland were they not flooded or otherwise too wet to plant crops on. Ordinarily these lands would be impossible to drain, but Archimedes' new Steam Pump offers a new potential option for land drainage. It'll be expensive and time consuming, but the extra agricultural output just might be worth it. Cost: 500. Time: Two Years. Reward: Water-logged areas cleared, additional farming income.
    [X] Coke-Fired Blast Furnaces: Iron and Steel are the lifeblood of your economy, constituting everything from tools to building materials to weapons. However, they are difficult to produce in vast amounts. The only reason your people have been able to do so thus far is because of the sheer amount of ore available to you in your mountains, and the number of mining and smelting operations currently underway as a result. Genevieve has come up with a potential solution to allow for greater production of these metals. Using coal that has been treated in much the same way wood is treated to produce charcoal, a new form of dense, cleaner-burning fuel can be used to heat a new kind of massive, vertical smelting furnace the size of a building with a much greater output of metals. Naturally, this will be expensive, but Genevieve states that the increased metal production will be necessary to allow for greater innovation and widespread implementation of new devices, not to mention the smelting of this new "Orichalcum". Cost: 600. Time: Two Years. Reward: Increased Iron/Steel Production, new Learning Actions Unlocked, Can now Smelt Orichalcum.
    [X] Gun-Cotton: Black Powder weapons are powerful, but they have some flaws, one of the most significant of which is the massive amount of smoke they produce. Archimedes believes he may have stumbled upon a solution. When paper or cloth is soaked in aqua fortis and sulfuric acid and then dried, the resulting material produces more than three times the force of a similar volume of blackpowder with much less smoke. Of course, finding a way to mass produce the stuff and apply it to your cannons is a difficult task, one that Archimedes will need time and funding to perform. Cost: 300. Time: One Year. Reward: Gun-Cotton developed, +5 to all Cannon Rolls.
    [X] Yakity Yak: The Yaks showcased their strength when they fought alongside you and yours at the Battle of Redstone Pass. They proved to be great allies...but they could also become a powerful enemy if things were to go wrong. The war has stirred up the Yaks' cultural and political landscape. You need to know what exactly is going on in the lands of your Western
    [X] Getting Swole: One of the numerous reasons you refused to fight Brochard was that he was so much stronger than you. A blade and a suit of armor mitigated that advantage a great deal, but it didn't remove it completely. You trained with your wife not long ago, and that training showed results, but the results weren't quite as big an improvement as you'd hoped. If you're going to be an Emperor worthy of the title, you need to be strong, especially if you're going to be throwing yourself into harms way like you did in the Winter War. Have Gabriella put you through an even more grueling fitness regimen and see if you can't improve your physique a bit more. Just because she's pregnant doesn't mean she can't put you through your paces! Cost: 0. Time: One Year. Reward: Increased martial stat, chance to upgrade Toned Trait, chance to improve Gabriella's opinion of you. Chance of Success: 55%
    [X] Combing the Archives: The Imperial Archives hold many secrets and much wisdom. It contains not only reams upon reams of records from recent years, but also what scraps of information have been recovered from the ruins of Pre-Discord civilization. Perhaps some of these decaying scraps of old parchment could contain bits of knowledge relevant to you in the present? Cost: 0. Time: One Year. Reward: Chance to gain information and knowledge from Pre-Discord Records.
    [X] Plan: There is a delay
    -[X] Hans, Get the Flamethrower: Cost: 400. Time: One Year. Reward: +4 Static Flame Projectors
    -[X] The Peregrine Line-Watchtowers: Cost: 1000. Time: Two Years. Reward: Southern Border Watchtowers built, removes possibility of surprise attacks, may discourage raids into core territory.
    -[X] The Neighborly Thing to Do: Cost: 1000. Time: One Year. Reward: Better relations with Yak Clans, Yaks gain access to steel tools, armor and weapons. Chance of Success: 70%
    -[X] I'm a Lumberjack and I'm OK: Cost: 150. Time: One Year. Reward: Logging income. Chance of Success: 70%
    -[X] Imperial Brew: Cost: 400. Time: One Year. Reward:
    Government Controlled Breweries. Gain Alcohol Sales Income. May raise Peasant Opinion. May lower Peasant Opinion. 50% chance of either outcome.
    -[X] Cannon Foundry: Cost: 400. Time: One Year. Reward: Cannon Foundry Constructed, additional Learning and Martial Actions Unlocked.
    -[X] Gun-Cotton: Cost: 300. Time: One Year. Reward: Gun-Cotton developed, +5 to all Cannon Rolls.
    -[X] Yakity Yak: Cost: 300. Time: One Year. Reward: New Intel on Yak Clans and the Fallout from the Winter War, possibility of new Intrigue Options. Chance of Success: 60%
    -[X] Getting Swole: Cost: 0. Time: One Year. Reward: Increased martial stat, chance to upgrade Toned Trait, chance to improve Gabriella's opinion of you. Chance of Success: 55%
    -[X] Combing the Archives: Cost: 0. Time: One Year. Reward: Chance to gain information and knowledge from Pre-Discord Records.
    [X] Recovery
 
There's nothing wrong with debt, debt can very much be a good thing, going into debt temporarily to boost the economy is a great thing. I think your problem is that you see debt as a on inherently bad thing, but it's not, as long as it's controlled it can be really beneficial.
Debt is not a bad thing in our modern world. This option is to go into debt for no other reason than people are impatient. We don't need the army at full strength right now. Sombra cannot attack for a while, the yaks are too weakened to be a threat, and the Neighpon are not hostile or they would have already attacked. The dice for them has already been rolled. So going into debt right now gets us no advantage that is necessary it will not help build the economy because the action that is pushing us into debt is one that as increases our upkeep.
 
Debt is not a bad thing in our modern world. This option is to go into debt for no other reason than people are impatient. We don't need the army at full strength right now. Sombra cannot attack for a while, the yaks are too weakened to be a threat, and the Neighpon are not hostile or they would have already attacked. The dice for them has already been rolled. So going into debt right now gets us no advantage that is necessary it will not help build the economy because the action that is pushing us into debt is one that as increases our upkeep.

There is an advantage that we get certain things started earlier, and as the QM said, as long as we pay it off there are no downsides, the total money available to spend over two turns is the same no matter what, this way just gets some things started earlier, which is beneficial.

Also even historically countries went into debt to fund major projects, and it was beneficial even then, so you can't just say debt is only useful in the modern world.
 
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There is an advantage that we get certain things started earlier, and as the QM said, as long as we pay it off there are no downsides, the total money available to spend over two turns is the same no matter what, this way just gets some things started earlier, which is beneficial.

Also even historically countries went into debt to fund major projects, and it was beneficial even then, so you can't just say debt is only useful in the modern world.
But how does it help right now to start early? The only real time-sensitive actions are the ones that involve fortifying the south. Aside from that, there is nothing that must be starting now because we have time to do them as more funds become available. The QM did say we could go in debt and as long as we pay them off fast we are fine, but how does that translate into wasting resources right now when we don't have too. This all seems like you all simply got told a new feature and you all want to use it for no reason other than it is there.
 
They're practically the same and I'm trying to negotiate with them to form a compromise vote.
Right yes I agree I'm saying I would vote for the compromise vote.

I wonder if we can turn our border with sombra into a something straight out of 40k with flamers everywhere and all the cannons
I wonder if it would be possible to form an order to study and fight magic and it's users that's a pretty big weakness of ours that we need to correct
 
But how does it help right now to start early? The only real time-sensitive actions are the ones that involve fortifying the south. Aside from that, there is nothing that must be starting now because we have time to do them as more funds become available. The QM did say we could go in debt and as long as we pay them off fast we are fine, but how does that translate into wasting resources right now when we don't have too. This all seems like you all simply got told a new feature and you all want to use it for no reason other than it is there.
Actually I had the debt confirmed after the fact. The problem with your argument is that we're not wasting any resources, these are all options we would pick eventually, and over two turns the total resources used would be the same, just getting those options done earlier. There is absolutely no downside to going into debt right now whatsoever and some benefits.
 
Right yes I agree I'm saying I would vote for the compromise vote.

I wonder if we can turn our border with sombra into a something straight out of 40k with flamers everywhere and all the cannons
I wonder if it would be possible to form an order to study and fight magic and it's users that's a pretty big weakness of ours that we need to correct
The problem is that a lot of the people who voted aren't online right now, so negotiation will probably happen later.
 
Actually I had the debt confirmed after the fact. The problem with your argument is that we're not wasting any resources, these are all options we would pick eventually, and over two turns the total resources used would be the same, just getting those options done earlier. There is absolutely no downside to going into debt right now whatsoever and some benefits.
Yeah, the cost is the same because we only pay once upfront. I know most of the options need to be taken eventually. But right now we don't have to take all of them at the same time. We can wait so we have more resources available. Not that it matters I've made my vote I am going with the plan that gets us what we need and doesn't put us in debt we can take newer actions next when we have the money to do some more moves.
 
You'd make three daggers, will correct that. And, honestly, at this particular moment I'm struggling to come up with ideas for personal actions. Gabriella's already pregnant, the kids are too young to get really involved in the family business in any significant capacity, and most of the ideas I do have require some other event take place first.

If you have problems with Personal Actions you could always add Personal Attention (Add stat to the roll) and/or Spend Time with Family (Increase relationship, reduce Stress and less chances of getting negative traits)

Edit: Could also use that one to determine traits of your kids and/or work on negative traits if they have them.

You could also put some actions to start educating your kids in some stat and add a +1 or +2 to that stat roll later.
 
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[X] Plan Rebuild and expand

As it is this and industrialization are losing to grieving but if the votes combined would easily win so I'll throw my hat here and hope for the best
 
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