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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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Azel said:
It's just honestly saddening that little kids is the one and only point at which the thread shows some semblance of morals. I can get away with murdering half the ruling class of Lys, as long as I make sure the kids are safe. I got away with wrecking Lannisport and making half the poor people there homeless, but that's fine, because nobody pointed out that a few little kids will cry.

It's just so... fake...
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Look man, I'm trying to be civil and I don't usually engage with you when you get like this because I'd prefer not to get into it, but people are allowed to have moral lines they aren't willing to cross, people are allowed to make distinctions on what is and isn't appropriate behavior, and most importantly people don't have to justify those things to you because they don't meet your own personal definition of what is 'consistent'. Everyone has thier own histories and trauma and I'd really personally appreciate it if you backed off about it, alright?
 
We can do both can't we? Both talk to her and modify her memory? Like say all the cutesy shit Snowfire's plan has and then dispel, put to sleep and modify memory, erasing the encounter, adding another one and Bloodwish?
 
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Azel said:
Excuse me? Do you really think a little girl will be happy if you tell her you take her cat away?

How do you think Rheanys would react if we came to her in a year and took Balerion away again?
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Dude, now you're just being petty. We don't even know if she thinks it's her cat.

One Autumn Leaf said:
We can do both can't we? Both talk to her and modify her memory?
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Not much point really, one will cancel out the other/ruin the other gameplan.
 
Azel said:
Excuse me? Do you really think a little girl will be happy if you tell her you take her cat away?

How do you think Rheanys would react if we came to her in a year and took Balerion away again?
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Except Balerion is not Myrcella's cat, he's just some cat in the Red Keep that she happened to run into today. So she'll totally cry because kids are like that, but then she'll remember the place is packed full of cats for pest control purposes when she runs into one. Or maybe even demand a cat all of her own, to which her parents will likely say yes.
 
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[edit: vote retracted]

I do feel horrible about this. And I expect Viserys would, too. On the other hand, it doesn't seem a stretch for him to have this brainwave, a burst of Draconic logic-cum-inspiration if you will, and then walk thence feeling vaguely disturbed. Not just at how easy it was, but at how it's actually morally justifiable in the long term.

I think it's much more grist for the dramatic mill, honestly. That's what tipped the scales for me.
 
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Breaking news: People more willing to act like Santa Claus for a child rather than give the child a nightmare. Truly, humans are a pathetic species.
 
Azel said:
That doesn't mean I can't be condescendingly disgusted at it.
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I guess I can be the same about your so-called 'breakdowns', then.

Azel said:
Excuse me? Do you really think a little girl will be happy if you tell her you take her cat away?
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Did you somehow miss the fact that we're supernaturally capable of social and will distract her with a minor piece of magic? Toddlers are, well, childishly easy to distract.

But let's be really clear here. Placing some sadness (sure lol) as worse than giving her what will likely be a recurring nightmare is beyond farcical. At least try to argue in good faith.
 
chryssalideater said:
Dude, now you're just being petty. We don't even know if she thinks it's her cat.
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Uhm, no. This is my main beef with Snowfires plan and why I asked him to switch to Squweaktoy.

We do indeed not know if she considers Balerion her own cat, but if she does, she will be somewhere between devastated and furious about us boldly proclaiming to take it from her. You don't take away peoples pets. That's Evil. I'm the guy who should propose this, not Snowfire.
 
Azel said:
Uhm, no. This is my main beef with Snowfires plan and why I asked him to switch to Squweaktoy.

We do indeed not know if she considers Balerion her own cat, but if she does, she will be somewhere between devastated and furious about us boldly proclaiming to take it from her. You don't take away peoples pets. That's Evil. I'm the guy who should propose this, not Snowfire.
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Trying to claim the moral high ground whilst at the same time stumping for traumatising a three year old is certainly a bold strategy.
 
Azel said:
Uhm, no. This is my main beef with Snowfires plan and why I asked him to switch to Squweaktoy.

We do indeed not know if she considers Balerion her own cat, but if she does, she will be somewhere between devastated and furious about us boldly proclaiming to take it from her. You don't take away peoples pets. That's Evil. I'm the guy who should propose this, not Snowfire.
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We know she doesn't think of him as her cat. How? Because we know she doesn't know him. How? Because she's charging the meanest cat in the Red Keep, and does not realize that she'll get a face full of scratches out of the deal, like literally everyone who knows Balerion would tell you.
 
Snowfire said:
Trying to claim the moral high ground whilst at the same time stumping for traumatising a three year old is certainly a bold strategy.
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I'm not claiming the moral high ground. I do not care about her being sad about it, I do care that she might scream and alert others to our presence, which would make subduing and memory editing her difficult.
 
@Azel @Snowfire ok both of you knock it off. At this point, Snowfire's playing up how traumatizing the memory will be/arguing his plan is somehow advantageous to us, and Azel is pretending we can't use our social to make the child forget about the cat/arguing his plan makes the child happier out of spite.

Snowfire's plan is clearly the nicer thing to do.
Azel's plan is clearly the useful thing to do.

Let's not debate in bad faith.
 
I'm not really a D&D expert but what could they add to security that would both keep us out and still make the castle useable? Wouldn't most things that would keep us out cause too many day to day problems to keep running?
 
AQShedim said:
I'm not really a D&D expert but what could they add to security that would both keep us out and still make the castle useable? Wouldn't most things that would keep us out cause too many day to day problems to keep running?
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Given that it's a low fantasy setting, not really. They just kind of need to block off any high-level magic that they don't want happening.
 
Snowfire said:
at the same time stumping for traumatising a three year old
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To be fair, if anything I've gotten out of my (very) short course on child psychology in university, it is that until about 3.5-4.5 years they are malleable as all hell.

Give her some fun, motherly love (*snrk*), and other distractions, and a nightmare would be just that - a nightmare.

It's nowhere near anything that would trumatise her, not in her age.
 
Azel said:
I'm not claiming the moral high ground. I do not care about her being sad about it, I do care that she might scream and alert others to our presence, which would make subduing and memory editing her difficult.
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Ok, ma-

chryssalideater said:
@Azel @Snowfire ok both of you knock it off. At this point, Snowfire's playing up how traumatizing the memory will be/arguing his plan is somehow advantageous to us, and Azel is pretending we can't use our social to make the child forget about the cat/arguing his plan makes the child happier out of spite.

Snowfire's plan is clearly the nicer thing to do.
Azel's plan is clearly the useful thing to do.

Let's not debate in bad faith.
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Yeah, ok. I'm done.
 
AQShedim said:
I'm not really a D&D expert but what could they add to security that would both keep us out and still make the castle useable? Wouldn't most things that would keep us out cause too many day to day problems to keep running?
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I know the castle already has wards that prevent us from teleporting in or scrying within its walls. They can't really add any wards that detect for us specifically since we're wearing a MindBlank item and short of a god you're not getting through that.
 
DragonParadox said:
OK, maybe I'm just overly sensitive to situations when the arguments get lively just as I am going to bed, but please remember that this is a game and the main point is to have fun.
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Not typically a fan of this argument as an excuse to shutdown a debate, but it is a point worth making. Some people are playing much more 'causally' than others, and are more likely to make surface-level decisions. Hell, I'm willing to bet that some people don't even know about all the bad shit we've done.
 
Dracikral said:
I know the castle already has wards that prevent us from teleporting in or scrying within its walls. They can't really add any wards that detect for us specifically since we're wearing a MindBlank item and short of a god you're not getting through that.
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Honestly the easiest way to make things harder for us would be garrison it properly, guard all the entrances, close tunnels and stop leaving so many abandoned rooms. Because seriously, so many holes in security.
 
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