Strange that you bring this argument up for music but don't do so for stealth and larceny. If anything we are more likely to find uber specialists in that field, I think.
The key difference, in my mind, is that it is much harder to gauge our capabilities for stealth/larceny for the average person in the Inner Sect. The only examples they truly have are from word of mouth. Most notably from Sun Liling and Yan Renshu. It is, however, harder to picture how good a person's stealth/larceny is without seeing it first hand. It's just a harder thing to imagine.
Contrast that to our music capabilities which have been demonstrated for the public during Cai's parties. People know how good we are at music and can judge for themselves if they feel confident in besting us in that field. Stealth and larceny is harder to judge like that because we have not demonstrated it yet.
Additionally, we are getting two distinct qualitative improvements for stealth this month, and so if we are careful about when we conduct the challenge we would have an increase in the advantage we already have with a new art to assist in the stealth larceny.
@yrsillar if we get a poetry contest could we simply recite what Sixiang tell us to ? In a straight combat challenge it make sense to allow for spirit help but I wonder if the same is true for non combat contests.
Contrast that to our music capabilities which have been demonstrated for the public during Cai's parties. People know how good we are at music and can judge for themselves if they feel confident in besting us in that field. Stealth and larceny is harder to judge like that because we have not demonstrated it yet.
I see where you are coming from, but I can't agree. Let's look at it from our target's perspective if they are not a stealth/larceny specialist: when an elder suddenly gives them an unusual choice at some niche contest, is it because this particular elder likes seeing such contest or because your opponent is skilled at it? I think it's almost always the latter.
And anyway, picking a type of a challenge based on where you think your opponent's weak spots are (without scouting it beforehand) is a route that gets hard countered by sheer diversity of cultivation ways: from LQ's own "I'm a shadow", to opression mom, to not!snakes and to the paperwork guy; and there are many others even more weird we don't know about yet. Seriously, how difficult is it to predict that someone is skilled at paperwork?
No, I think challenges are picked in the fields that the challenged feel themselves skilled in. It is a consistent and predictable way to have the advantage your opponent: from specific arts to general experience. And if there is someone who beats you into your specific field of choice? The loss of the position sucks, but you learned something new that will help you grow later, right? Like, if there is someone who makes better poisons than Meizhen - sure it sucks, but it gets her to see where she can improve her poisons later.
With that in mind - when someone picks a stealth contest, I totally expect that person to spec into stealth hard. When someone picks a cooking contest, that's a Gordon Ramsay in the making. When someone picks a drinking contest... well, you get my meaning.
The key difference, in my mind, is that it is much harder to gauge our capabilities for stealth/larceny for the average person in the Inner Sect. The only examples they truly have are from word of mouth. Most notably from Sun Liling and Yan Renshu. It is, however, harder to picture how good a person's stealth/larceny is without seeing it first hand. It's just a harder thing to imagine.
Contrast that to our music capabilities which have been demonstrated for the public during Cai's parties. People know how good we are at music and can judge for themselves if they feel confident in besting us in that field. Stealth and larceny is harder to judge like that because we have not demonstrated it yet.
Additionally, we are getting two distinct qualitative improvements for stealth this month, and so if we are careful about when we conduct the challenge we would have an increase in the advantage we already have with a new art to assist in the stealth larceny.
Anyone who pick stealth will be good at stealth, as they only get contests they are at least somewhat good at... and currently our stealth abilities are much lesser than our music ones. This might change when we get B stealth, but depending on Yrs we could actually meet a bottleneck beforehand. OTOH, not only are we much stronger in music than stealth right now, but a big improvement to music in the short term will be when we get Manip B by turn 4.
As for "It's hard for people to gauge how good we are at stealth", the same apply to the person we challenge, and the same apply to music too. I will also note that while we have powerful arts that give us great flexibility for, well, specific use of stealth, our stealth itself is barely reaching above average right now.
Anyone who pick stealth will be good at stealth, as they only get contests they are at least somewhat good at... and currently our stealth abilities are much lesser than our music ones. This might change when we get B stealth, but depending on Yrs we could actually meet a bottleneck beforehand. OTOH, not only are we much stronger in music than stealth right now, but a big improvement to music in the short term will be when we get Manip B by turn 4.
As for "It's hard for people to gauge how good we are at stealth", the same apply to the person we challenge, and the same apply to music too. I will also note that while we have powerful arts that give us great flexibility for, well, specific use of stealth, our stealth itself is barely reaching above average right now.
Mm, given our B dexterity and SCS, I think our Hiding and Sleight of Hand abilities are solidly above average. Our more general stealth isn't quite up to snuff, though.
E: It could become quite impressive in short order if we break through to B, cultivate ENM to mastery, and finish SCS, though. We may just be able to reach unconditional A through bonuses.
Mm, given our B dexterity and SCS, I think our Hiding and Sleight of Hand abilities are solidly above average. Our more general stealth isn't quite up to snuff, though.
E: It could become quite impressive in short order if we break through to B, cultivate ENM to mastery, and finish SCS, though. We may just be able to reach unconditional A through bonuses.
That's why I mentioned types of stealth. For example, If I had to put types of tests in words myself, I would put 'Infiltration' or 'Rescue of Hostages' more than 'Stealth'. We are really good at that, and will only get better.
ENM to mastery will need foundation, so that will take a bit, but yeah, we are getting to B in unconditional bonus through SCS7 alone even if we don't get B stealth, and that's 'above average'. If we do get B stealth, it brings us up to B17-30, meaning that with ENM our 'best scenario stealth' without techniques is A, but OWS/PD should give a significant enough stealth bonus to get to that A even without that best scenario. So yeah, for the specific scenario our stealth apply to, it will be pretty good fairly soon.
Hence, 'getting B to stealth focus is a big deal', but it will be a focus. Also, it can't compare to our Woodwind whose derivative will be close to S by then.
@yrsillar if we get a poetry contest could we simply recite what Sixiang tell us to ? In a straight combat challenge it make sense to allow for spirit help but I wonder if the same is true for non combat contests.
Also, we know that the arts in this setting are not just about producing a mundane physical phenomenon, but also about infusing that phenomenon with meaning. When we play a piece of music, it isn't just a series of sounds.
This means that if Six literally read off some poetry and we repeated it, the result would be hollow; we'd need our own poetry skill to actually make the poetry mean something on a spiritual level.
Ling Qi was not sure what she had expected when she had set this meeting up.
"Does it not cause the gown to hang oddly and bunch up?" Gu Xiulan asked, idly swirling the cup of bubbling hot tea in her hand. "And I imagine it must chafe terribly."
"Not at all," Li Suyin replied, smoothing out the glittering silk folds of the gown she was showing them as she neatly folded it back up. "The metal filaments, once attuned to the wearer will follow their motions naturally and can be controlled in the same way one would a limb."
It wasn't this though.
"That sounds somewhat like a flying sword," Xiulan replied shrewdly. "Are you certain you are not overreaching yourself?"
Li Suyin met Xiulan's gaze steadily from where she stood. "It is just a prototype. I admit the control is limited to simple motions as things are… but the filaments are vectors for my arts all the same. My partner and I will develop it further when I break through."
Xiulan continued to stare her down, to which Li Suyin responded by drawing herself up further. This was more like what she was expecting. "That's the second time you've mentioned a partner," Ling Qi said, pushing herself up from the wall she had been leaning against. "Anyone interesting?"
Li Suyin glanced toward her. "Oh, um- I suppose neither of you interacted much with the crafting disciples. Du Feng, the disciple who placed just above me, has been working with me on a few projects."
"Hm, I approve," Xiulan said pausing to take a sip of her near boiling tea. Ling Qi had no idea how she could stand it. She found the blend Li Suyin had set out to be much better chilled. "I suppose you really have grown."
"I am pleased to finally meet your standards Sect Sister Gu," Li Suyin replied irritably.
Xiulan laughed. "You see? You would not have dared talk back to me six months ago."
Ling Qi coughed into her hand. "Maybe we should get back to our original topic?" Despite her words, she was glad to listen to her friends banter, it let her feel normal again. STill, they were trying to scope out the competition in the lower end of the Sect.
Green 1/Bronze 1
Health C20, Qi B
Speed C10, Initiative B5
C. Perc. C25
Phys Def
Avoid: C20, Armor D15
Spir Def
Avoid C15, Armor C20
Phys Off
Hit B10, Pen B25
Primary Elements: Fire, Heaven
Secondary Elements: Sun
"I am grossly under ranked," Gu Xiulan grumbled, her empty tea cup hitting the table with a solid clunk.
Ling Qi nodded, speaking with other inner disciples, and more often just observing public areas from a well hidden nook, she had come to a similar conclusion. Disciples below 900 were mostly in the second realm, with a scattering of partial breakthroughs. Even up to 880 or so partial third realms were more common than full ones. She could say that those disciples were below her concern and not feel like she was being cocky. "Just how high are you thinking of challenging?" She asked, giving her friend a sidelong look.
"At least high enough to reach the next reward tier, I would shame my family otherwise," Xiulan replied with a sniff.
"I am not certain that I wish to challenge up at all yet," Li Suyin sighed. "I really should finish a project or two first, and at least begin my breakthrough."
"Are you saying you don't have your eye on any particular seat?" Ling Qi asked, raising an eyebrow."
"...No," Li Suyin admitted, sitting down across from Xiulan, having finished putting away her prototype gown.
Ling Qi laughed, and Xiulan tittered along. "Well let's leave that aside for the moment. What have we learned about our yearmates?"
"Sun Liling has hardly showed her face," Gu Xiulan replied first. "Neither has that Kang, though the latter might be for medical reasons. Bai Meizhen was not gentle in her match."
"Ji Rong has been in the archives a great deal," Li Suyin added with a frown. "Though not always in the arts sections. "...He got into a fistfight with a tome of imperial law while I was studying construct behavior functions. The archivists were quite cross. One commented that it was becoming more common."
Xiulan let out an unladylike snort of laughter. "That would be a sight."
Green 1/Bronze 1
Health B30, Qi C10
Speed ?, Initiative C
C. Perc. B25
Phys Def
Avoid: ?, Armor B
Spir Def
Avoid C25, Armor ?
Phys Off
Hit B, Pen ?
Primary Elements: Mountain, Heaven
Secondary Elements: Metal
Spirit Beasts
Rimefur Wolf
Yellow 3/Bronze 1
Heavenly Guardian Hound
Green 1/Bronze 1
-outdated
Green 2/Bronze 2
Health A, Qi B20
Speed B30, Initiative A
C. Perc. B
Phys Def
Avoid: B15, Armor C20
Spir Def
Avoid B, Armor B5
Phys Off
Hit B10, Pen A10
Spirit Beast: Sunflower Handmaiden, Dharitri
Green 1/Bronze 1
-outdated
Green 1/Bronze 2
Health B, Qi B25
Speed C20, Initiative B15
C. Perc. C10
Phys Def
Avoid: B, Armor C10
Spir Def
Avoid C15, Armor D15
Phys Off
Hit B20, Pen A
Primary Elements: Heaven
Secondary Elements: Wind
"Shen Hu is probably only aiming for a small challenge, so he doesn't fall below the rank threshold," LIng Qi added quietly. "He wants to focus on shoring up some weaknesses first."
"Well, I believe that is everyone of import," Xiulan said haughtily. "Unless one of your compatriots is aiming to challenge a combat disciple?" She asked, looking to Li Suyin.
"Unlikely," Li Suyin replied with a frown. "Um… it might be a little arrogant to say, but aside from Yan Renshu and Fu Xiang, none of them are my match either…"
Yan Renshu was the sticking point. Like Gu Xiulan he was certainly underranked. Ling Qi worried that he would challenge Li Suyin just to spite her honestly. She could only speculate on the boys plans, because no one she had access too had seen hide nor hair of him since he had moved into his new housing. There was no point in wasting their time at this meeting with that though.
Ling Qi flicked her wrist, and thick scroll appeared in her hand, drawn from her storage ring. "Let's leave them aside for the moment. I did a little people watching and picked some things up about our new Sect Brothers and Sisters."
"I did as well, since you asked me too," Li Suyin added, placing her own scroll on the table.
Xiulan rolled her eyes. "What a pair of scholars you are," she said in a lightly mocking tone. "I spoke to and mingled with our new brethren on this mountain. I felt no need to write down my insights."
LI Suyin and Ling Qi let out an almost simultaneous huff of annoyance, only to meet each others eyes and break into quiet laughter. Yes, Ling Qi was glad that she had involved her friends instead of doing this alone.
Still, she was a little worried, Sixiang had barely spoken up at all in the last few days.
Disciple 804: Mou Shuang
Age 17 Cultivation Green 1/Bronze 1
Elements: Wind/Water
A quiet and unassuming young man, polite to a fault and seemingly well regarded by other disciples. Sociable, seen mingling with other disciples regularly, spoken to by Gu Xiulan, who agrees with the assessment. Scion of an emerald seas baronial clan. Member of the Sect's scout forces. Specialties lie in reconnaissance and infiltration. Generally regarded as a weak duelist, those who have worked with him nonetheless value his contributions. Primarily uses spiritual arts and unarmed fighting style. Is known to have a bound spirit of the third realm fused with his shadow.
Disciple 807: Xu Zhen
Age 17 Cultivation Green 1/ Bronze 1
Elements: Metal/Earth
Youngest son of a Emerald Seas baron. Dour and unsociable personality, but dutiful and punctual to a fault. Is easily flustered, according to Gu Xiulan. Known for creating and using single use defensive talismans as part of his personal fighting style, as well as regularly helping with upkeep of the Sects defensive wardings. Fights primarily using a staff, and is known particularly for his ability to unravel the trickery of spirits.
Disciple 812: Yu Nuan
Age 16 Cultivation Green 1/Bronze 1
Elements: Fire/Wind (music?)
A taciturn and violent girl, surrounded by ill rumor. Member of the previous years graduating class, entering at the bottom of the rankings as a second realm. Either common born or the child of a common cultivator, rumor is unsure. Briefly spotted in the archive by Li Suyin, in the bestiaries section. Practices musical arts with large five stringed lute. Generally considered loud and vulgar in her compositions. No known bound spirits
Statblock
Health: B
Speed: C25, Init. B
Phys Hit: B10
Spirit Hit: C25
Alrighty, starting off the challenge arc here with a little girl time pow-wow. You'll be voting here on which of the targets above to focus on in research going forward. You can also choose none and I'll muddle on and come up with another target or two after the next scene
[] Research Disciple 804
[] Research Disciple 807
[] Research Disciple 812
[] Look into other targets.
While I'm all for aiming for the top, Yu Nuan looks the most like the kind of disciple that we can not only win against, but do so without making more than one enemy. Also, if she goes for a musical battle, we might end up with a new Art of our own.
Thinking a little harder on the topic, Disciples 804 and 807 sound more like the people we might want to recruit as allies and see if we can pull them along with us.
[X] Research Disciple 804
Mou Shuang sounds like the kind of disciple who'd choose a fair specialty v. specialty challenge, as opposed to one of his supplementary skills. He's also got a pretty secure position so he has no reason to be worried about losing a rank.
Yeah, it'll be a fun test of infiltration, and his rank is pretty secure, so there shouldn't be any hard feelings if we win, and if we lose--well, it's still good training.
Xiulan said pausing to take a sip of her near boiling tea. Ling Qi had no idea how she could stand it. She found the blend Li Suyin had set out to be much better chilled.
Ling Qi, stop being silly. You have a perfectly good idea how and why you each like your tea how you do. I bet Xiulan also likes to nap in the warm sunlight and you sleep best exposed to a cool breeze.
