Remove ads

A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

Reader mode
@lockingbane
What's the most likely event here: someone manages to kill us beyond all hope of resurrection, or someone sneaks into our tower while we're out and publishes our very damaging secrets?
This isn't worth the risk, really.
 
Duesal said:
No, we can definitely die. We just shouldn't plan based around it, especially not with things that would reveal all our secrets since we're sure as hell not planning to die
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Dude, i am not even talking about that book thing anymore.

I am reffering to the fact that, with our current lack of concern for death.

"Pride comes before the fall" and the belief that one is unnable to die permanently is probably one of the most stupid and prideful beliefs possible.

Snowfire said:
On the one hand you get me. On the other, you are totally wrong. Concepts are entirely vulnerable to attack in D&D. Deities are concepts, or at least a bunch of them mashed together into something 'alive'
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

In every campaign i have played dieties were either spirits which gorged themselves on faith and were influenced by the beliefs of said faith or were beings so powerful that they ascended.

That was pretty much the way gods have been explained in every campaign i have ever played. As beings powered by faith they absorbed and were influenced by it. Not "pure concepts".

TalonofAnathrax said:
@lockingbane
What's the most likely event here: someone manages to kill us beyond all hope of resurrection, or someone sneaks into our tower while we're out and publishes our very damaging secrets?
This isn't worth the risk, really.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT THAT ANYMORE!!!
 
Snowfire said:
:facepalm:

On the one hand you get me. On the other, you are totally wrong. Concepts are entirely vulnerable to attack in D&D. Deities are concepts, or at least a bunch of them mashed together into something 'alive'. Concepthax is difficult in D&D, sure, but it's not impossible. The Alignment system though is different from concepthax, in the same ways as trying to redefine how the math that underlies our reality works would be utterly nuts as well as probably impossible.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Since this is not Exalted permanently changing Concepts is hard, if not impossible anyway.

Gods can be killed, the concepts they represent not, at least not forver.
 
lockingbane said:
In every campaign i have played dieties were either spirits which gorged themselves on faith and were influenced by the beliefs of said faith or were beings so powerful that they ascended.

That was pretty much the way gods have been explained in every campaign i have ever played. As beings powered by faith they absorbed and were influenced by it. Not "pure concepts".
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
:D
Those two phrases are synonymous. What did they ascend to, pray tell? Pure concepts. A God is an idea, a Nature, an essence shaped and powered by belief. Pelor isn't some bloke: he's the concept of Pelor who just happens to have the ability to take physical form sometimes.
 
I like this guy. He's really competent and gives a very good impression of his organization, which does something we want done anyways. I want to offer them about as much backing as they want/can accept without being seen as our people. If they are willing to offer us information about Deep Ones and their methods to fight them (since the Silver Eye has a PrC, these guys probably do too) I'd offer even more.
 
Last edited:
lockingbane said:
Dude, i am not even talking about that book thing anymore.

I am reffering to the fact that, with our current lack of concern for death.

"Pride comes before the fall" and the belief that one is unnable to die permanently is probably one of the most stupid and prideful beliefs possible.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It's self-confidence and exhaustive preparation to back it up. Can we die? Of course. We're doing everything in our power not to, and that amounts to quite a bit, so it's no wonder we're not that worried.
zxzx24 said:
I think they would find alchemical items more useful.

Maybe how to make silvered weapons as well?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Isn't making silvered weapons just a matter of finding a halfway decent smith? I guess we could tell them how to do it, but I'd be surprised if they didn't already know.

They'd definitely find alchemical items useful, @Goldfish would have to be consulted on what we can spare.
 
lockingbane said:
Dude, i am not even talking about that book thing anymore.

I am reffering to the fact that, with our current lack of concern for death.

"Pride comes before the fall" and the belief that one is unnable to die permanently is probably one of the most stupid and prideful beliefs possible.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I think you are reading the thread mood wrong. We are not saying that we Viserys is unbeatable and unkillable. We are saying that he is immune to old age, disease and the like, and that anything powerful enough to kill him and make it stick will continue to either lay waste to the world or enslave it utterly.
 
065tdsa said:
I like this guy. He's really competent and gives a very good impression of his organization. I want to offer them about as much backing as they want/can accept without being seen as our people. If they are willing to offer us information about Deep Ones and their methods to fight them (since the Silver Eye has a PrC, these guys probably do too) I'd offer even more.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
They have a good deal of backing from the Maesters, which makes working with them difficult for now.
At least not too closely.
 
TalonofAnathrax said:
Pelor isn't some bloke: he's the concept of Pelor who just happens to have the ability to take physical form sometimes
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Again, every campaign gods were spirits pumped up on faith and changed from it.

Pelor? Might have started out as a fire elemental in a primitive village. People worshipped him, grew in power, won a bunch of battles became associated with war in the stories and faith, couple thousand years of accumulated faith and boom he ascends.

That was pretty much the process of ascension every gm i have ever played with had.
 
Um .. we did fight that Other Ice Dragon that was capable of retroactively deleting us from existence.

But stuff like Trap the Soul -> Void, getting mulched into coins by the Sultan, or getting eaten by Yss is probably gonna end us for good.


Though I feel memetic corruption from the 14 Valyrian god may be a bigger problem, but since I've not seen anyone share that sentiment, I'm probably wrong on that.
 
Duesal said:
They'd definitely find alchemical items useful, @Goldfish would have to be consulted on what we can spare.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Are you talking about the Lantern Bearers? I'm sure Alchemical stuff would be of great use to them, but I'm not willing to share with them until we have suborned the organization.

Remember, we've seen from the official Lantern Bearer omakes written by @SeekerofLight that Cass, and presumably his fellows, must check all of their gear into the Lantern Bearer armory, which appears to be controlled by the Citadel. Cass himself is an Alchemist of some skill and was able to craft some stuff for use in his duties, but it would be extremely suspicious if Tobyn suddenly had access to a large supply of Alchemical items with no good explanation for where they came from.
 
[X] Plan Groundwork
-[X] "I must admit some degree of ignorance on your order. Your goals are clear enough and laudable at that, so I'm not uninclined to offer some substantial aid, though..." Glance meaningfully to the maester. "There are some doubts about the company you keep."
-[X] "If you would be so kind to tell me more about your order and yourself, I'm sure that we can find some common ground."

Need some intel for a good offer. I'm suspecting that they rely on the Maesters for magical support, so we might be able to talk them around to look for other backers. Especially as this whole situation is a pretty clear sign that the alliance with the Maesters could get them into serious shit with someone they don't want among their enemies.
 
Last edited:
lockingbane said:
Again, every campaign gods were spirits pumped up on faith and changed from it.

Pelor? Might have started out as a fire elemental in a primitive village. People worshipped him, grew in power, won a bunch of battles became associated with war in the stories and faith, couple thousand years of accumulated faith and boom he ascends.

That was pretty much the process of ascension every gm i have ever played with had.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Okay, but right now Pelor is a concept. He's not a fire spirit with a bunch of levels or something. He's become an image of what he originally was, as shaped by his dogma and the belief people had in him. Kinda like a mantle in Dresden Files.
That's part of the basic "becoming a God through worshipers" package, and it's explicitly how DP is running things in this quest. Remember the warnings when we got our Mythic Tier? The conceptual damage Daenerys deals to Tiamat by wearing her skin as a tool, weakening the image and essence of the all-powerful mother of dragons who kills those who steal from her?
 
dpara said:
Though I feel memetic corruption from the 14 Valyrian god may be a bigger problem, but since I've not seen anyone share that sentiment, I'm probably wrong on that.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Good catches!

Also yeah. Thats something everyone has mostly been ignoring, because we can't do anything about it.

Except ask for help.
 
Duesal said:
It's self-confidence and exhaustive preparation to back it up. Can we die? Of course. We're doing everything in our power not to, and that amounts to quite a bit, so it's no wonder we're not that worried
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...


Azel said:
I think you are reading the thread mood wrong. We are not saying that we Viserys is unbeatable and unkillable. We are saying that he is immune to old age, disease and the like, and that anything powerful enough to kill him and make it stick will continue to either lay waste to the world or enslave it utterly.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

.... you guys LITERALLY SAID "We cannot die" and "We are immortal". Kind of hard to misread that.

TalonofAnathrax said:
Okay, but right now Pelor is a concept. He's not a fire spirit with a bunch of levels or something. He's become an image of what he originally was, as shaped by his dogma and the belief people had in him
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

More like a kind of "evolved" fire spirit that was mutated and warped by faith until it became something new. It isnt a high level fire spirit, but a being fueled by faith and utterly warped by it.

I now understand DP is doing a different kind of god ascension but that kind was what i had known all the years of playing dnd.

It is pretty obvious i am very confused about this whole deal since it is not what i had known.

Whole new system for me to try and puzzle out ya know?
 
dpara said:
Um .. we did fight that Other Ice Dragon that was capable of retroactively deleting us from existence.

But stuff like Trap the Soul -> Void, getting mulched into coins by the Sultan, or getting eaten by Yss is probably gonna end us for good.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
You are right with these scenarios and are proving my point there.
Except the Soul Trap thing, since retrieving that would be far from impossible.

So we got:
- get killed by an Other Champion
- get captured and killed by the Sultan of Brass
- get eaten by Yss

Which is illustrating that it needs divine level power to kill Viserys these days.
 
[X] Azel

While the Lantern Bearers and the Maesters are in alliance, I doubt it's anything but one of convenience. Wouldn't it be a shame if some other organization stepped in and offered a better deal?
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top