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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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Goldfish said:
I think you've missed some posts from DP addressing this and other concerns we've expressed. We simply are not going to allow them that level of control. They will not be above the law.
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No, I read the posts on how MAD is unlikely since the members would self correct. But look what I'm talking about is a Al Saud level disparity in wealth and influence.

A couple dozen family lines accumulating a global stranglehold on a key economic feature. It doesnt matter if every member currently is a paragon of skill and business acumen, let alone financial morals. The positions are hereditary, the accumulated wealth cumulative.

Eventually given that much of ahead start and so broad a control of the market supply for currency were gonna have money tossing dipshits spending 100k Iron Mark's for a night with every prostitute in Lys every other Week. Teen hosers making a pool of Arbor gold to water polo in. Games of Cyvasee with real people as pieces. And it would be economically viable for them. Because they would have oligarchic hereditary control of the only major bank on the planet.

Hereditary positions are never an economic formula for efficiency is what I'm saying.
 
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MTB said:
Higher planes. He fits, he doesn't want to leave. He doesn't fit, the locals will not like it.
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Oh niceeeee.

I kinda wanna say that "in a polity more vast and mighty than you have the previous life experience to imagine, in one nobel's house we saw enough wealth to crash the entirety of trade in Western Planetos. With your permission, I would like to share with you an image of what I saw, cast either Share Memory – d20PFSRD or Silent Image – Spell – D&D Tools of what it looked like.

edit: "@DP Can we get an actual breakdown of what exactly Viserys and the Pondmaster are agreeing to? My Sense Motive, Knowledge(Politics), and Knowledge(Economics) skills are not terribly well developed." <-seconded
 
Abhishek M said:
No, I read the posts on how MAD is unlikely since the members would self correct. But look what I'm talking about is a Al Saud level disparity in wealth and influence.

A couple dozen family lines accumulating a global stranglehold on a key economic feature. It doesnt matter if every member currently is a paragon of skill and business acumen, let alone financial morals. The positions are hereditary, the accumulated wealth cumulative.

Eventually given that much of ahead start and so broad a control of the market supply for currency were gonna have money tossing dipshits spending 100k Iron Mark's for a night with every prostitute in Lys every other Week. Teen hosers making a pool of Arbor gold to water polo in. Games of Cyvasee with real people as pieces. And it would be economically viable for them. Because they would have oligarchic hereditary control of the only major bank on the planet.

Hereditary positions are never an economic formula for efficiency is what I'm saying.
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We have that now and the world hasn't burned down (yet).

Sorry, I can't even joke about that without crying a little.
 
Abhishek M said:
No, I read the posts on how MAD is unlikely since the members would self correct. But look what I'm talking about is a Al Saud level disparity in wealth and influence.

A couple dozen family lines accumulating a global stranglehold on a key economic feature. It doesnt matter if every member currently is a paragon of skill and business acumen, let alone financial morals. The positions are hereditary, the accumulated wealth cumulative.

Eventually given that much of ahead start and so broad a control of the market supply for currency were gonna have money tossing dipshits spending 100k Iron Mark's for a night with every prostitute in Lys every other Week. Teen hosers making a pool of Arbor gold to water polo in. Games of Cyvasee with real people as pieces. And it would be economically viable for them. Because they would have oligarchic hereditary control of the only major bank on the planet.

Hereditary positions are never an economic formula for efficiency is what I'm saying.
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There are also my concerns about immortality. Insane wealth and inequalities, slow madness, stagnation...
 
Crake said:
@DragonParadox You said that exchange was more even, but the implication was that while the Sealord wasn't amazed, he had to acknowledge our point?
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Yes, while trying to argue for more interdependence.

Goldfish said:
@DragonParadox Can we get an actual breakdown of what exactly Viserys and the Pondmaster are agreeing to? My Sense Motive, Knowledge(Politics), and Knowledge(Economics) skills are not terribly well developed.
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  1. The Iron bank becomes your de facto central bank except for the ability to mint, gaining a hegemonic position in your empire. Other banks will exist but they will be unable to significantly threaten its position due to state favoritism
  2. The Sealord agreed to loans between different branches of the state without going though the Iron Bank, as well as an expetion for the companies you own but he offered advisers to help make sure they are viable
  3. He is offering you eventual leverage over the Iron Bank, not as Viserys Targaryen, but as the king, with the understanding that you will use it to course-correct any dangerous or flawed positions the Keyholders may hold, but also with the understanding that the Bank will be able to restrain some of your actions, a mirror to how Braavos works now.
 
What you guys fail to notice is that there wre already thousands of keyholders in Braavos. That's simply how their inheritance laws and population growth work.

The IB has a large applicant pool and control of it is far less concentrated then you guys seem to think. There is a reason the IB has only employees, not owners. It's far more institution then private company.


@DragonParadox, would you mind if I set a contract?
 
Azel said:
What you guys fail to notice is that there wre already thousands of keyholders in Braavos. That's simply how their inheritance laws and population growth work.

The IB has a large applicant pool and control of it is far less concentrated then you guys seem to think. There is a reason the IB has only employees, not owners. It's far more institution then private company.


@DragonParadox, would you mind if I set a contract?
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You can of course draft one, but the Sealord is not in a position to sign right now.
 
Wait...

We don't have an official name for our state yet. We kinda need one to sign contracts between the IB and our state.

...

"And thus an Empire is born... in the margins of a business deal."

"You usually give more dramatic speeches."

"Even I have my limits on what I can spruce up to an epic tale."
 
Alright @DragonParadox I think we need a clarification on just how the keyholders thing works again. How many are there, how does inheritance work, how exclusive is it? What is the process for non bravosi becoming key holders? But whatever the case I'm still leery about selling that much power for three eggs. Especially when we have eight already.
 
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"I'm about to get legalistic so hold on to your pants!"

Lya: *bites lip* I'd rather not.

Sealord: Syrio, run. While you still can.

Syrio: What do we say to fine print, Ferrego?"

"Not today."

"The First Sword does not run." *gets out reading glasses* "The First Sword litigates."

EPIC LEGAL DRAFT BATTLES OF HISTORYYYYY
 
Azel said:
Guys. That above was no joke. We need to settle on a name for our state.
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A lot of us have been using Imperium for a while now.

EDIT: Imperium has the benefit of never having been used in ASOIAF, so we'd be unique rather than just yet another Empire.

It doesn't exclude non-human citizens in any way.

The name is derived from High Valyrian which we'll be using a lot in our government.

And lastly and perhaps the most important, it sounds cool.
 
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I also favor Imperium. You can call those/that which derive authority or origin from it "Imperial", and more informally it could be referred to as an Empire.

But "Imperium" has the added benefit of not drawing direct association with previous states like "Freehold" or "Empire" would, and neither would it function like either, instead having a complex bureaucracy of paper pushers and draconian (literally) policies driving most of the day to day stuff, with top level decisions driven by an individual with ultimate authority, and citizens that actually have real legal representation rather than just whatever the local warlord says.
 
"Storage Unit 42" sound good?

"The Imperium" "What Imperium?" "The Imperium"

Yeah, I'm not great with names
 
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I'll kick this off, I guess.

[X] Tentatively agree to enter into a deal with the Sealord and the Iron Bank of Braavos, more closely welding them to our growing empire, the Imperium.
 
@DragonParadox, just something to point out, until the contract is signed, we don't really have a deal. Political realities aside, it's a rather lacklustre agreement if we have nothing signed and didn't even properly negotiate with the other involved party.
 
I think it's more of a commiserating moment for Ferrego and Viserys, @Azel. They started out on a rocky ground, with lots of ups and downs, and now they're basically discussing the eventual and likely intergration of Braavos as a junior partner to Viserys' burgeoning empire.

He's basically saying, "this is the direction I've wanted to take things as soon as I realized the depths of your ambition", and the two of them are sort of hedging around what it will eventually look like, but he wants to know if Viserys will go for it when the time comes.

And yeah, we probably will.
 
Imperium, for we are the GOD EMPEROR OF DRAGONKIND rightful ruler of a swiftly growing nation of many peoples and places.

That and it just sounds so damn cool to say. Even that fat fuck warming our soon to be melted down new lawn ornament has to agree.
 
Totally off topic, but I now want to do an Ace Attorney omake featuring a bunch of Heads of State as different lawyers.

Robert would be a divorce lawyer. :V
 
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