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Paths of Civilization II: Paths of Industrialization

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8bitBob said:
I mean, the war only started in 1935 with Table Flip. We've been at war for a grand total of three years. Yes, we haven't had amazing results yet, but most wars aren't short victorious ones. A lack of results doesn't really say much at this point.
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agumentic said:
We have gained ground because we weren't concentrating on very heavily entrenched ports, that can be easily resupplied, while our besieging army suffers from the lack of everything, because last supply depot is three thousands kilometers to the west.

Trying to take ports without fleet support or railway is fool's errand.
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veekie said:
As for the Cordon...keep in mind the cordon is being peeled back(we've restored coastal access for some parts), just too slowly to be decisive
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More info from AN

Academia Nut said:
Navy is just too damn far from resupply to make a meaningful dent in the Nohon's ability to ravage the coasts from their protected ports.
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The problem is that we have been playing Nohon's game in Nohon's backyard, if we go for a land war we will be going for a game where we have an advantage.
We can have the greater quality and potentialy have either equal or higher quantity due to nomad allies.
Then there is notKorea, AN has described them as being under the heel of Nohon, if we can reach them or cause the Nohon grip on them to loosen we gain a huge advantage.
On the naval front it feels like we keep assuming that Nohon will keep static until we defeat it, while it's more likely they are putting in more than us in order to maintain their naval advantage.

I'll be going for this vote for now.

[X][War] Continue War - Royalists Pleased
[X][Bill] 2 PW - King's Bill (+1 temp SoL, Boost Science Research, +2 Sell Crown Corp Uses)
[X][Rails] 1 PW - Yes please(Kielmyr Invest, gain +1 Railroads)

Saves IC for the next turn which can be used to get more roads to the East and making fighting there easier. The extra PW is also welcome.
 
[X][Rails] 1 PW - Yes please (Kielmyr Invest, gain +1 Railroads)

Not sure on anything else.
Edit: Enthralled by sunk cost.
[X][War] Continue War - Royalists Pleased
[X][Bill] 1 PW - Veto (+1 temp Consciousness
[X][Rails] 1 PW - Yes please (Kielmyr Invest, gain +1 Railroads)
 
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Fouredged Sword said:
I don't get how we fought them to a standstill a few years ago with even more distant ports and fewer ships and older tech and now suddenly are out of supply.
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The naval battles then where focused on the area between our nation, with Nohon trying to disrupt our trade I believe. It's a question of location and what war goals each nation had at the time.

Edit: Also just as we have invested into developing our navy so have the Nohon most likely done as well.
 
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It might be worth using spycraft and similar to distract Nohon? A well-timed rebellion within their internal holdings may be able to cause a lot of damage with us and Hung distracting them.
 
Citino said:
@Academia Nut if we think it's impossible to defeat the Nohon navy at sea, what are our aims then? Just defeat as many Nohon ships as we can, or do we still pan on trying to break the cordon, even if it's unlikely?
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At this point? You basically don't have war goals, or at least not achievable ones. Getting the Nohon to back off is now dependent on either a miracle or the Hung political process. On land you don't have the logistics to make a dent in their significant holdings because you can't lay siege to port cities that you can't cut off from the sea and don't have the troop concentrations to launch an assault that wouldn't be immediately reversed. Basically you have been trying to buy time for the Hung to wake up from their paralysis, but they have been struggling to realize just screwed they are, mostly out of shock and disbelief. While that is wearing off, there is a lot of midisrected bitterness and anger rather than directed action.
 
Academia Nut said:
At this point? You basically don't have war goals, or at least not achievable ones. Getting the Nohon to back off is now dependent on either a miracle or the Hung political process. On land you don't have the logistics to make a dent in their significant holdings because you can't lay siege to port cities that you can't cut off from the sea and don't have the troop concentrations to launch an assault that wouldn't be immediately reversed. Basically you have been trying to buy time for the Hung to wake up from their paralysis, but they have been struggling to realize just screwed they are, mostly out of shock and disbelief. While that is wearing off, there is a lot of midisrected bitterness and anger rather than directed action.
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Would getting Not!Korea to revolt and supplying us with a much closer base of operations count as a miracle? Because in this game you make your own miracles.
 
Academia Nut said:
At this point? You basically don't have war goals, or at least not achievable ones. Getting the Nohon to back off is now dependent on either a miracle or the Hung political process. On land you don't have the logistics to make a dent in their significant holdings because you can't lay siege to port cities that you can't cut off from the sea and don't have the troop concentrations to launch an assault that wouldn't be immediately reversed. Basically you have been trying to buy time for the Hung to wake up from their paralysis, but they have been struggling to realize just screwed they are, mostly out of shock and disbelief. While that is wearing off, there is a lot of midisrected bitterness and anger rather than directed action.
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Ehh. What, even bigger fleet will not do much?

Still, I guess we could keep it up until 1840 and end then, if nothing really changes.
 
Academia Nut said:
At this point? You basically don't have war goals, or at least not achievable ones. Getting the Nohon to back off is now dependent on either a miracle or the Hung political process. On land you don't have the logistics to make a dent in their significant holdings because you can't lay siege to port cities that you can't cut off from the sea and don't have the troop concentrations to launch an assault that wouldn't be immediately reversed. Basically you have been trying to buy time for the Hung to wake up from their paralysis, but they have been struggling to realize just screwed they are, mostly out of shock and disbelief. While that is wearing off, there is a lot of midisrected bitterness and anger rather than directed action.
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Yep. Personal goal is for the Hung core to survive like the OYE core did really. We knew the collapse was coming, we're just trying to make sure it doesn't leave us with a Hung that hates everyone(including us)

@Academia Nut
Whats our advisors opinion on sending Diplomatic Outreach at Hung helping with the situation?

That and:
tryrar said:
Would getting Not!Korea to revolt and supplying us with a much closer base of operations count as a miracle? Because in this game you make your own miracles.
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Intrigue Mission targeting Not!Korea seems to be a sidewise attack that could work
 
[X][War] Uti possidetis - Peace out with limited gains (+1 Temp Happiness)
[X][Bill] 1 PW - Veto (+1 temp Consciousness
[X][Rails] 1 PW - Yes please (Kielmyr Invest, gain +1 Railroads)
 
tryrar said:
Would getting Not!Korea to revolt and supplying us with a much closer base of operations count as a miracle? Because in this game you make your own miracles.
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Kind of yeah. Like, the set up for getting a revolt to go off needed have begun before the war, but if you could trigger a revolt it would certainly give you a shot in the arm.

agumentic said:
Ehh. What, even bigger fleet will not do much?
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At the ranges between you and the Nohon, no, you would primarily just be ensuring that you could keep feeding fresh ships into them. You are just too far from resupply to be able to do much without doubling the size of your current navy.

veekie said:
Whats our advisors opinion on sending Diplomatic Outreach at Hung helping with the situation?
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Your diplomats report the court is in absolute chaos. It might help, but the Hung are currently in the uncomfortable position of discovering that they had forgotten the difference between "orders decreed" and "orders carried out".
 
[X][War] Uti possidetis - Peace out with limited gains (+1 Temp Happiness)
[X][Bill] 1 PW - Veto (+1 temp Consciousness
[X][Rails] 1 PW - Yes please (Kielmyr Invest, gain +1 Railroads)

Edit: alright that should have fixed my vote.​
 
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Academia Nut said:
Star Trek/Lovecraft
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I so want to see that TV show now.

War
[X][War] Continue War - Royalists Pleased

Spending Bill

[X][Bill] 2 PW - Naval Armaments Bill (-1 IC, +1 Temp IC, +1 Navy, +2 Temp SoL, +4 Sell Crown Corp Uses, Royalists Pleased)

[X][Bill] 2 PW - King's Bill (+1 temp SoL, Boost Science Research, +2 Sell Crown Corp Uses)

Kielmyr Railroad Development
[X][Rails] 1 PW - Yes please (Kielmyr Invest, gain +1 Railroads)

Definitely continue the war. If the Hung shatter I would rather the DC were placed as the loyal ally who has a warm fire the Hung rump state can join. Certainly it is sounding like the Nohon are about to succeed in breaking apart the Hung empire, and if so I'd like the DC to be able to take advantage of that. And so far, American style imperialism is working well for the DC, so to America-colonize the Hung, we need a genuine ally and for that ally to find the DC's friendship to be fair and just. Bailing out when the war that is close to breaking the Hung has become mildly inconvenient for the DC is... Sub-optimal for doing that, I feel.

I think the naval armaments bill is the best deal on the table, but boosting science research while also boosting temp SoL also seems pretty solid. I am not so keen on the idea of just vetoing the CC sell off when we'll be developing industry (thus making more crown corps) soon too.

Also, voting for the Kielmyr investment because I want Kielmyr to be interested in the DC's prosperity and economic health and for Kielmyr to remain at least something of a counter to Sketch for a while longer.

fasquardon
 
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[X][War] Continue War - Royalists Pleased
[X][Bill] 1 PW - Veto (+1 temp Consciousness
[X][Rails] 1 PW - Yes please (Kielmyr Invest, gain +1 Railroads)
 
[post=PostId]Title[/post][X][War] Continue War - Royalists Pleased
[X][Bill] 2 PW - Naval Armaments Bill (-1 IC, +1 Temp IC, +1 Navy, +2 Temp SoL, +4 Sell Crown Corp Uses, Royalists Pleased)
[X][Rails] 1 PW - Yes please (Kielmyr Invest, gain +1 Railroads)
 
Academia Nut said:
Kind of yeah. Like, the set up for getting a revolt to go off needed have begun before the war, but if you could trigger a revolt it would certainly give you a shot in the arm.



At the ranges between you and the Nohon, no, you would primarily just be ensuring that you could keep feeding fresh ships into them. You are just too far from resupply to be able to do much without doubling the size of your current navy.



Your diplomats report the court is in absolute chaos. It might help, but the Hung are currently in the uncomfortable position of discovering that they had forgotten the difference between "orders decreed" and "orders carried out".
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And if we did go from temp navies 5 to temp navies 10? Because temp navies 10 is distinctively posible by the end of next turn...
 
[X][Bill] 2 PW - Development Bill (-2 IC, +1 temp IC, +1 Railroads, +5 Temp SoL, Boost Science Research +7 Sell Crown Corp Uses, Liberals Pleased)
[X][War] Uti possidetis - Peace out with limited gains (+1 Temp Happiness)
limited
[X][Rails] 1 PW - Yes please (Kielmyr Invest, gain +1 Railroads)


From what AN has said, it sounds like the war can't be won with our current capabilities so it's time to end it. I would also like to sell off some crown corps and improve SoL so that we can put an end to the growing unrest from poor living conditions. I also want to move away from state capitalism since it isn't very efficient
 
agumentic said:
And a completely, utterly horrendous logistics. You can't siege a fortress that has better supply chain than you do.
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You can burn the country side around them, you can cut of vulnerable settlements and fortifications and size their resources and take their positions as our own. This is precisely the sort of warfare that our Keshyks and nomads will excel at. These raids will weaken the main forts and settlements, making them vulnerable to even our strained forces.

Any victory would be costly and hard won.
But possible.
However the true path I believe is to endeavor to light notKorea aflame in revolt against their Nohon overlords.
 
No7sHere said:
Why, our GM just literally told us we aren't winning or gaining more territory without a miracle.
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Because the point is, the objective is literally to make the Hung collapse less than total. We're already working on that. The landgrab was from the beginning something nice that might happen if all the stars aligned, and not a goal we expected to get.

And of course setting off a rebellion or two for the Nohon to be distracted by helps too.
 
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We also want the Nohon to be negotiation peace with Hung before we give up. We NEED it to be "yeah you win, now please give us decent terms and we call of the DC attack dogs."

Otherwise it is "oh crap, our only ally just bailed. Unconditionally surrender!!"
 
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