Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

Guile said:

Speaking of, what is our title? It kind of seems like he called us "Chaos Moon Craftsman."

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BoneyM said:

She's a Master Mhornokri."

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Master Shadow Craftsman.

It's probably a term of pretty high respect.

Edit: Racnor is a Shadow Ninja.

I also note we didn't get the Waterfall/Torrent (zhuf) Crafter (okri) appellation, unlike the (Gor - Wild beast) Gorzhufokri and (Azul - metal) Azulzhufokri. I wonder if that's recognition of our Master status- obviously you can't craft a waterfall, so we're a Shadow Craftsman, doing the practical and achieveable without the implications of futility/amazement?
Khazalid

Guile said:

Why would you ever have your primary dispeller and (though they don't know it) healer off on recon missions?

That's no way to run a war.

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Certainly we should be there for battles, but when we have openings between said battles then we can get back to utilizing the best counterspell, death.

Man, this vote is an unusually difficult one.

On the one hand, the fellow Wizards might be easier to get along with since they're not going to say funny things about the magic-user, on the other hand, we have a good rep in Stirland too, on the first hand, magic coverage is short and having a professional in charge of the wizards is good, on the other hand again, we're a professional commander by Stirland standards too and would raise morale there, but then again...

But on the grasping hand, I'm going to say that being in command of either would leave Mathilde further overworked and stretched and pulled a dozen ways when she's already supposed to be making personal contributions to a war effort as a wizard, training a familiar, figuring out the details of How To Magister, possibly practising enchantment and studying the flask of Asp Juice, potentially studying the Liber Mortis, and I'm confident Boney is going to have a dozen other things pop up during the campaign that will cry out for our personal attention. (and one-man side-advisor is just bothering the dwarf for no good reason) So I'm going to say:
[X] Decline.

And then vote the magical options (this is four, I know only three will win) to focus there.
[X] The Amber Wizard journeymen.
[X] The Gold Wizard journeyman.
[X] Spend time with your wolf pup, trying to develop a famliar bond.
[X] Deliver last-minute messages for Belegar, trying to scrape together any remaining support to be had before leaving.
- [X] To the Colleges of Magic.

Alliterate said:

Master Shadow Craftsman.

It's probably term of pretty high respect.

Edit: Racnor is a Shadow Ninja.

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By My Ancestor's BEARD! What is an ELF doing in my expedition?!

Guile said:

Why would you ever have your primary dispeller and (though they don't know it) healer off on recon missions?

That's no way to run a war.

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Because she says it's a good idea and she's in charge of the wizards.

notanautomaton said:

@BoneyM are you going to change the quest title now that we're not an adviser anymore?

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Unless a super unexpected run on the Decline vote happens, it's still fairly appropriate.

SITB said:

Partially random question @BoneyM, but how do the dwarves view halflings? I recall that you elaborated that the Dawi view humans as Vornari and Elves aren't even compared to a useful plant or mineral, so what are halflings compared to?

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They haven't really had enough exposure to them to reach an opinion and pretty much just treat them as inexplicably short humans.

Nix's Warden said:

@BoneyM Since there's going to be ALOT of Dwarven talking going for the forseeable future, could you maybe add somekind of AN or Spoiler listing translations of Dwarven into English, because alot of people don't own dwarven dictionaries so we don't have any idea what's being said.

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Neither does Mathilde. If it's plot important it'll be explained, but it's mostly there for flavour. And the lexicon is available on the Warhammer wikias.

DiceOfStupidity said:

I was thinking about Mathilde and the ways to get better at magic. Outright active training is not viable, as it is too risky. But would it be possible for her to train her Witchsight? Please note, that I do not mean training/upgrading 'Windreader' - that trait signifies understanding of magic. I am thinking about training raw perception.

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No. Improvements in her ability to 'see' magic are part of what's represented by the Magic stat. There's no convenient way to train it alone, short of going hermit and spending a few cumulative years in meditation.

DiceOfStupidity said:

Flicker - is it viable at direction of research?

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Also no. It is literally Ulgu becoming part of Mathilde's soul. Mathilde has absolutely no idea how to suppress or control or harness her soul. It's not some passive spell or whatever, it's what Mathilde is now. Fire burns low near her because that is how reality reacts to her.

SITB said:

Partially random question @BoneyM, but how do the dwarves view halflings? I recall that you elaborated that the Dawi view humans as Vornari and Elves aren't even compared to a useful plant or mineral, so what are halflings compared to?

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BoneyM said:

They haven't really had enough exposure to them to reach an opinion and pretty much just treat them as inexplicably short humans.

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Maybe they'll land on...

• Zorn - Upland plateau or high meadow.

Pleasant if not immediately obvious how it can be useful, but often good for food. Or

• Frongol - Mushrooms that grow at the back of a cave.

For similar logic, plus they are short and underfoot.

BoneyM said:

No. Improvements in her ability to 'see' magic are part of what's represented by the Magic stat. There's no convenient way to train it alone, short of going hermit and spending a few cumulative years in meditation.

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That's fair.

Could You give outline as to how Mathilde witchsight works now with her current magic stat? And what general level of stat would be needed for her to be able to do things mentioned in quote - like compensate for darkness, see souls, emotions or intentions?

It would be nice to have outline of how it will progress and where Mathilde stands now.

Dwarf Words for Wizards:

This could be a much longer list, but we will restrict ourselves to the more polite dwarf words for wizards.

Dwarfs, in general, do not subscribe to the 'Winds' metaphor for magic. They see it instead as Zhuf - a raging torrent, treacherous and powerful, that is most useful when 'dammed' behind Runes. Those that manage the foolish and impressive task of wielding it are Zhufokri - Torrent Crafters. When identifying wielders of specific winds, they usually fall into noun-crafters - for instance, Grey Mages would be Mhornokri, literally Shadow Crafters. However, when the derived word already has a meaning, noun-torrent-crafters is used instead. For instance, Gold Mages would be Azulzhufokri, Metal Torrent Crafters, because Azulokri means a blacksmith. Amber Mages would be Gorzhulokri, Beast Torrent Crafters, because Gorokri means an animal trainer.

A slightly less polite (but, arguably, equally accurate) way would be to replace the okri with i - Zhufi for Torrent Person, Azulzhufi for Metal Torrent Person, and so on. This shifts the implication from one who wields magic, to one who is defined by it.

DiceOfStupidity said:

Could You give outline as to how Mathilde witchsight works now with her current magic stat? And what general level of stat would be needed for her to be able to do things mentioned in quote - like compensate for darkness, see souls, emotions or intentions?

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Being a Grey Wizard, her magic sense is best at picking up the borders between light and dark. This is something that normal eyes can do quite well, though. If she were blindfolded she could 'see' in a sort of greyscale, and in low-light situations her magical senses would combine with her mundane ones to give her the equivalent of low-light vision. Especially confused people would also stand out to her senses, even through walls or around corners, because that is the emotion that gives rise to Ulgu. The other advantages of advanced mage-sight are currently beyond her.

BoneyM said:

Dwarf Words for Wizards:

This could be a much longer list, but we will restrict ourselves to the polite dwarf words for wizards.

Dwarfs, in general, do not subscribe to the 'Winds' metaphor for magic. They see it instead as Zhuf - a raging torrent, treacherous and powerful, that is most useful when 'dammed' behind Runes. Those that manage the foolish and impressive task of wielding it are Zhufokri - Torrent Crafters. When identifying wielders of specific winds, they usually fall into noun-crafters - for instance, Grey Mages would be Mhornokri, literally Shadow Crafters. However, when the derived word already has a meaning, noun-torrent-crafters is used instead. For instance, Gold Mages would be Azulzhufokri, Metal Torrent Crafters, because Azulokri means a blacksmith. Amber Mages would be Gorzhulokri, Beast Torrent Crafters, because Gorokri means an animal trainer.



Being a Grey Wizard, her magic sense is best at picking up the borders between light and dark. This is something that normal eyes can do quite well, though. If she were blindfolded she could 'see' in a sort of greyscale, and in low-light situations her magical senses would combine with her mundane ones to give her the equivalent of low-light vision. Especially confused people would also stand out to her senses, even through walls or around corners, because that is the emotion that gives rise to Ulgu. The other advantages of advanced mage-sight are currently beyond her.

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Nice. So we can read that as similar overall low light vision capability to the Dwarves and Halflings? In terms of being able to operate alongside them. Plus, a Confusion ground penetrating radar.

Very different in cause but similar in effect, yeah.

BoneyM said:

Very different in cause but similar in effect, yeah.

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Is it 360 degrees? Because then it might be worth training* up to combat use to prevent people from ambushing us and generally having advanced awareness of our surroundings.

*Not training the sight itself, just training Mathilde to be able to rely on it similar to martial artists relying on hearing to pinpoint where opponents are.

[x] Accept as the most senior Wizard present (commanding two Amber Journeymen and one Gold Journeyman).
[x] Deliver last-minute messages for Belegar, trying to scrape together any remaining support to be had before leaving.
- [X] To Elector Counts.
- [X] To the Colleges of Magic.
- [X] To Dwarfholds of the Grey and Black Mountains.

Changing Vote.

Likewise
[x] Accept as the most senior Wizard present (commanding two Amber Journeymen and one Gold Journeyman).
[x] Deliver last-minute messages for Belegar, trying to scrape together any remaining support to be had before leaving.
- [X] To Dwarfholds of the Grey and Black Mountains.
- [X] To Elector Counts.
- [X] To the Colleges of Magic.

[x] Deliver last-minute messages for Belegar, trying to scrape together any remaining support to be had before leaving.
- [X] To Elector Counts.
- [X] To the Colleges of Magic.
- [X] To Dwarfholds of the Grey and Black Mountains.

Unsure about the leadership, but I do want to get as much support for this expedition as possible before it sets out.

I have to ask how we are going to keep the Liber Mortis safe when the campaign starts in earnest because we have the facking original copy on our person which means the rats and the greenies will have characters who can sense magic concentrations of power and we have one.

[x]Accept as the most senior Wizard present (commanding two Amber Journeymen and one Gold Journeyman).
[x] Deliver last-minute messages for Belegar, trying to scrape together any remaining support to be had before leaving.
- [X] To Dwarfholds of the Grey and Black Mountains.
- [X] To Elector Counts.
- [X] To the Colleges of Magic.

Stewart9 said:

I have to ask how we are going to keep the Liber Mortis safe when the campaign starts in earnest because we have the facking original copy on our person which means the rats and the greenies will have characters who can sense magic concentrations of power and we have one.

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Nope, it's in a special box to prevent just that issue.

Stewart9 said:

I have to ask how we are going to keep the Liber Mortis safe when the campaign starts in earnest because we have the facking original copy on our person which means the rats and the greenies will have characters who can sense magic concentrations of power and we have one.

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They'll sense nothing from a battlefield away. Mathilde was in the tent with the box holding Liber Mortis and she didn't pick up on it.

BoneyM said:

But to your senses of magic it is utterly unique. Unlike other, shoddily-made items, it doesn't leak corruption into the atmosphere; it lies there, perfectly contained and utterly stable, the masterpiece of a terrible genius.

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And if we do look at it from time to time, what are the greenies going to say, "there's a magic somewhere over in the army"? Well of course there is.

The competition for our third action is fierce, but everything else seems firmly set in stone by a lead of about 30 or 40 votes.

[X] Accept as the most senior Wizard present (commanding two Amber Journeymen and one Gold Journeyman).
[X] Deliver last-minute messages for Belegar, trying to scrape together any remaining support to be had before leaving.
- [X] To Dwarfholds of the Grey and Black Mountains.
- [X] To the Colleges of Magic.

I'll swap out for amber guys if stirland pulls ahead.

Hm. To much focus on our wolf pup when this is such a limited time period to gather allies before we set out. Oh well. No way are enough people going to change their vote to make a difference.

Nix's Warden said:

Hm. To much focus on our wolf pup when this is such a limited time period to gather allies before we set out. Oh well. No way are enough people going to change their vote to make a difference.

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Eh, it's an investment that grows with time. Start on it now, reap the returns later, and the returns are pretty hefty: +1 magic is big enough (the first benefit is random, but we can choose later ones), but it's also our way to have a companion who won't betray us and comes with us everywhere, who might or might not also be a priest of Ranald back from the afterlife just to mess with people.

I am not saying it would be easy for them to notice it, I just do not like the fact that we are dragging the the original copy of that book on our person in to a campaign of this magnitude because we will have it near enemies for months on end and bad things could happen or go wrong. We will be in enemy territory the whole time and that is what real worries me because we will have no where to stash it for a little while and no one we could even thing of giving it to for any amount of time.

chocolote12 said:

Eh, it's an investment that grows with time. Start on it now, reap the returns later, and the returns are pretty hefty: +1 magic is big enough (the first benefit is random, but we can choose later ones), but it's also our way to have a companion who won't betray us and comes with us everywhere, who might or might not also be a priest of Ranald back from the afterlife just to mess with people.

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Like, that's true and all, but it's definitly going take more then a In Game Year to take back Eight Peaks from the Skaven, so I don't see a reason to start right this very moment when its our only chance to secure further support before marching begins.

I think I will amend my vote to drop spending time with the Stirlanders and add running messages to the Colleges of Magic. We still have at least ~7 hours before the vote closes, but it looks like the following votes will carry the day:

-Sit on the council as the wizard representative
-Spend time with Wolf Jr.
-Send messages to the Dwarfholds

Which leaves only the third 'spend time with/ask aid from' option in contest. I originally voted for command of the Stirland forces, as I thought that if Mathilde was going to be on the war council, she should pull her weight. Not in individual contributions, I'm sure Matty will do well in that department, but rather in helping to manage the 100k plus bodies that make up the Throng of Belegar Ironhammer.

Being in command of much smaller specialist forces as opposed to a larger division is a valid and useful option to pick, but even counting Matty herself, she's still representing only 4 people, as opposed to the hundreds to thousands represented by the other council members. So if we are going to speak for the magic users, I think we ought to try to swell the ranks with a few more wizards.

I'm declining to vote for sending messages to the Elector Counts, as realistically I don't see the familiar vote falling from it's lofty heights in the tally (also I really wanna spend time with the pupper). The Empire could bring possibly muster even more cannon than the Dwarfholds, considering the difference in populations, thus addressing counter-spelling concerns, but at this stage in the game pulling in more wizards seems the more likely vote.


All that said, I wouldn't be upset if the spending time with the Stirlanders or Amber wizards won out. The narrative aspects of this quest shouldn't be ignored in favor of the mechanical; socialization is important. The loss and weakening of Matty's social links in Stirland was detrimental to the enjoyment of the quest, I think, so we shouldn't put those actions on the back-burner completely. That's another reason for keeping the familiar vote, as Wolf Jr. has the potential to develop into a character in its own right, especially as it increases in intelligence and possibly even develops speech. It's a nice option that balances developing Matty's personal power as well as providing character interactions.