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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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TalonofAnathrax said:
Sure, that's nice. But you're paying a guaranteed cost to get only a potential bonus (probably used only if we need to research some Runes or something). Now I'm sure that it's a great one and I'll probably vote for it this time, but I'm definitely not blown away by libraries in general.
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We're not "paying" for the library at all. We're tacking it on as one of the points of the alliance. We also didn't pay for the Night's Watch library and we got some pretty neat things out of it. And we outright stole the Lich's library. The amulets were something that would have been given to the Royces anyway, this is just us getting the most out of it. Also, you severely underestimate the knowledge bonuses.
DragonParadox said:
Knowledge (Arcana) +6
Knowledge (Geography) +7
Knowledge (History) +4
Knowledge (Law) +6
Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty) +4
Knowledge (Religion) +4
Knowledge (The Planes) +3
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In what world is this not useful?
 
After the ups and (mostly ups) lateral sidesteps of this month, I'm basically completely unprepared to fight for the next turn's schedule. I think it has a lot to do with the fact that a lot of days are already pretty much accounted for due to actions we took this turn. Like we still need about a week of research on top of the three days we're doing this month for Amrelath's phylactery. And then I imagine we will have to organize trips to handle all the followup for this turn, and the lead-up for Tyrosh.

I actually pity @Goldfish and @Diomedon and anyone else who will have to squabble over the few remaining days to allocate.
 
Duesal said:
We're not "paying" for the library at all. We're tacking it on as one of the points of the alliance. We also didn't pay for the Night's Watch library and we got some pretty neat things out of it. And we outright stole the Lich's library. The amulets were something that would have been given to the Royces anyway, this is just us getting the most out of it. Also, you severely underestimate the knowledge bonuses.

In what world is this not useful?
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When do we actually make that kind of checks while having access to a library?
Does it help Lya build Constructs or something? Is there a check for that once she has the feat?
 
All actions which require research time, or can be conducted in Sorcerer's Deep, which use a knowledge role, then benefit from that mechanical bonus.

Admittedly right now with how much we're not at home, those bonuses don't seem like much, but as soon as we start on more personal projects in lieu of conquests or diplomacy, you'll see that they make an appreciable difference.
 
We're having Vee work on the Fungus Forge next turn. That's way up there in priority.
TalonofAnathrax said:
When do we actually make that kind of checks while having access to a library?
Does it help Lya build Constructs or something? Is there a check for that once she has the feat?
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Knowledge Arcana — literally all magical research
Knowledge Geography — planning conquest and trade
Knowledge Law & Nobility & Royalty — governing

Etc. Seriously, the library is used where it makes sense. Those books are used as references for important projects of all stripes. We're not collecting them for the hell of it.
 
Duesal said:
Because she barely counts. One of our baby PCs would probably roll right over her.
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Artemis1992 said:
She has been constantly adventuring.
I agree that her class is shit, but she should have a decent level in it by now.
Not to underestimate, she's propably worth as much as an actual PC that's a few levels lower.
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Both of you underestimate Adepts, tbh. While it's technically an NPC class, its spell list is really good and makes it stronger than many of PC classes.

[X] Crake
 
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Crake said:
All actions which require research time, or can be conducted in Sorcerer's Deep, which use a knowledge role, then benefit from that mechanical bonus.

Admittedly right now with how much we're not at home, those bonuses don't seem like much, but as soon as we start on more personal projects in lieu of conquests or diplomacy, you'll see that they make an appreciable difference.
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I'm assuming they help with a lot of stuff already.

Lya looking into soulgems and now Amrelath' Phylactery for example.
 
AoD_Patr said:
Both of you underestimate Adepts, tbh. While it's technically an NPC class, its spell list is really good and makes it stronger than many of PC classes.
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Yeah. And @Duesal, didn't DP say that she'd been sacrificing a lot of stuff to get extra spell slots and such? She's probably decently leveled and quite a bit stronger than an NPC of her level should be.
 
TalonofAnathrax said:
Yeah. And @Duesal, didn't DP say that she'd been sacrificing a lot of stuff to get extra spell slots and such? She's probably decently leveled and quite a bit stronger than an NPC of her level should be.
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Temporary spell slots. Considerably less impressive. If she got actual spell slots then by now I would have pushed for us to do the same. She probably made those sacrifices right before a big fight or something to give her a needed edge.
DragonParadox said:
OOC: Fear the almighty Sleep Spell. BTW Dalla is getting temporary bonus spell slots from the sacrifices.
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Gentlemen... BEHOLD!
Adhoc vote count started by Crake on Mar 17, 2018 at 9:42 AM, finished with 166066 posts and 11 votes.
  • [X] Plan "These things happen to teach lessons, and then Viserys bails you out of the fire"
    -[X] "To be perfectly honest my Lord? They would be beyond foolish to ask what would be beyond the means or overruling the expectations of a young girl of a noble house not yet even flowered. What could a girl of her years yet do without personal power at her own command but for the ear of her Lord father? If it was beyond such means and they asked it anyway, foolish are they in the doing, then, since they would answer to her relatives and their allies."
    -[X] "Such open ended favors exchanged with strangers are not what I would recommend any person make without desperation guiding them, but then anyone could have made such a promise not many years ago and without the eyes and ears of the Gods weighing heavily upon them. The world is closer to the stories of yore than it is to the one either of our fathers lived in, which is why I stress the importance of educating... everyone, about the dangers that we face, both from men who dabble in sorcery, have the ears of gods, or whatever else ilk preys upon the misconceptions of mankind this day."
    -[X] "As to what can be done? I doubt fire and steel should be necessary to absolve her of the favor owed... if but mere words were exchanged between they and I. I admit I am interested in what kind of person would even be interested in holding such a promise over the head of a child in her position. But beyond my curiosity I also have a duty. The sister of my friend, close in my council besides, has placed herself in a position that I feel she would not be in if I had only made contact with you sooner. But holding blame like packages to be weighted and passed around... it sounds pointless. No doubt if they hold such designs as you imagine upon her, they will come to regret them before long."
    [X] "In this matter you need not fear, Lord Royce. Your daughter is as safe now as she was prior to the ill-advised adventure which saw her cross paths with the Wildling witch."
    -[X] "The Wildlings are but puppets of another master, one who has a vested interest in their continued survival. He knows perfectly well what would happen to his pawns should they seek to take advantage of your daughter's Oath. Waymar, aided by myself and our companions, would fall upon them with the same wrath that has already shattered armies and torn asunder the champions of Hell."
    --[X] If asked about the Wildlings' master, reply with "He is an ancient creature far beyond your ability to influence, Lord Royce. Although you would perhaps count him an enemy, he is vital to the defense of Westeros against enemies none are currently prepared to face. As distasteful as it is to admit, let alone tolerate, the Wildlings are but one of the tools he wields to stave off a greater threat in order to give the realm time to prepare. On this matter I can say more, as the Enemy has the means to learn when it is spoken of, even in hushed whispers behind warded walls."
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Can't we just say that we've had dealings with the Old Gods and through them we've ensured that the favor won't be unacceptable? We've already established that they're enforcing the oath in question.

No need to mention bloodraven, and I'm fairly sure the fact that we dealt with the old gods isn't a secret. We can even use the terrors beyond the walls as a justification for our dealings if he has any misgivings.
 
The thing here is Yohn is hearing, "It'll be fine. We are assured of this." But there's no proof. We know that the situation is probably contained, thanks to Uncle Brynden if nothing else, but he has no proof that it actually is being handled appropriately.

So generally speaking just getting it out of the way so they can breathe easier is better. Like any band-aid.
 
Crake said:
After the ups and (mostly ups) lateral sidesteps of this month, I'm basically completely unprepared to fight for the next turn's schedule. I think it has a lot to do with the fact that a lot of days are already pretty much accounted for due to actions we took this turn. Like we still need about a week of research on top of the three days we're doing this month for Amrelath's phylactery. And then I imagine we will have to organize trips to handle all the followup for this turn, and the lead-up for Tyrosh.

I actually pity @Goldfish and @Diomedon and anyone else who will have to squabble over the few remaining days to allocate.
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Ugh. I don't want to think about it yet. I'm pretty sure people want to do 2-3 months of stuff in the 2/3 of a month leading up to the conquest. The biggest thing will be planning around potential disruptions and trying to ensure we are more generous about our time allocations than we normally do (since we can't adjust as freely as we like).

We might need to do the planning session day where we wipe Viserys's memory afterwards first to do the schedule, so we know who we need to move into Tyrosh ahead of time, who needs to leave on a fake piracy mission with Saan's forces, etc, to make our divination disruptions work.
 
Diomedon said:
Ugh. I don't want to think about it yet. I'm pretty sure people want to do 2-3 months of stuff in the 2/3 of a month leading up to the conquest. The biggest thing will be planning around potential disruptions and trying to ensure we are more generous about our time allocations than we normally do (since we can't adjust as freely as we like).

We might need to do the planning session day where we wipe Viserys's memory afterwards first to do the schedule, so we know who we need to move into Tyrosh ahead of time, who needs to leave on a fake piracy mission with Saan's forces, etc, to make our divination disruptions work.
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I'm against any sort of mental tampering with Viserys or the party members as an anti-Divination measure. If necessary, we can make constant use of Mage's Private Sanctum, Nondetection, and False Vision spells leading up to the invasion, as well as the Tower's anti-Divination room. Or we could do all of that simultaneously.
 
@Crake, maybe add that we have dealings with the Old Gods and that our warnings where thus delivered as whispers from a Godswood. The witch would be tremendously stupid to disregard them and soon after tremendously dead.
 
Goldfish said:
I'm against any sort of mental tampering with Viserys or the party members as an anti-Divination measure. If necessary, we can make constant use of Mage's Private Sanctum, Nondetection, and False Vision spells leading up to the invasion, as well as the Tower's anti-Divination room. Or we could do all of that simultaneously.
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This has been proposed and discussed repeatedly for months. It's the entire crux of how we're getting around divination and achieving surprise in Tyrosh without locking Viserys in a Mage's Private Sanctum for most of the month. Our potential enemies have demonic backing, and we have at least one god hostile to us in Tyrosh, and our friend r'hllor will not doubt love to intervene in things as well. Nondetection wont cut it.

There is a reason I kept adding safe usage of memory moss to the schedule each month.
 
Diomedon said:
This has been proposed and discussed repeatedly for months. It's the entire crux of how we're getting around divination and achieving surprise in Tyrosh without locking Viserys in a Mage's Private Sanctum for most of the month. Our potential enemies have demonic backing, and we have at least one god hostile to us in Tyrosh, and our friend r'hllor will not doubt love to intervene in things as well. Nondetection wont cut it.

There is a reason I kept adding safe usage of memory moss to the schedule each month.
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So?

I'd honestly prefer to let them know before fucking with our head.
 
Diomedon said:
This has been proposed and discussed repeatedly for months. It's the entire crux of how we're getting around divination and achieving surprise in Tyrosh without locking Viserys in a Mage's Private Sanctum for most of the month. Our potential enemies have demonic backing, and we have at least one god hostile to us in Tyrosh, and our friend r'hllor will not doubt love to intervene in things as well. Nondetection wont cut it.

There is a reason I kept adding safe usage of memory moss to the schedule each month.
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And I've been biding my time to speak against it, which I'm doing now. I would rather have Viserys camp out in the Shadow Tower, under the protection of Mage's Private Sanctum, Nondetection, and False Vision than mess with his head. And we absolutely have that capability now. Dany can also use the Telepath template to gain the Mind Blank SLA she can use on Viserys.
 
Whee, arguments about things I thought already were already settled because people were "saving" the arguments for later.

This is going to be so fun. /s

-_-

More seriously, if messing with someone's head with the moss even once is such a serious thing, why have we been so cavalier with its use up till now?
 
Agree with Goldfish.

On what to do next month: Most definitely get Sothoryos done. Some higher tier equipment I've been pinning on for a long, long time is close to fruition and we need to know what our next most accessible high level dungeon will wield before we commit to crafting.
 
...I'm in Azel camp on this matter, @Goldfish.
Sure, it may seem like an unnecessary risk, but it seems far more simple and time-effective than relying on a number of spells and rituals you've outlined.
We'll likely have a great number of actions that we'd better take this turn (sooner better than later, yadda-yadda) we'll need Viserys for.
As such, wasting too much time on pre-Tyrosh is gonna suck.
 
Diomedon said:
Whee, arguments about things I thought already were already settled because people were "saving" the arguments for later.

This is going to be so fun. /s

-_-

More seriously, if messing with someone's head with the moss even once is such a serious thing, why have we been so cavalier with its use up till now?
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Sorry, messing with our memories presses on my Existential Horror button quite firmly.

I haven't been cavalier with the use of Memory Moss up to this point because it has yet to become an issue. I don't want to use it on ourselves, but would like to have it available as a tool in our arsenal for use when we don't want to kill someone and magic isn't an acceptable alternative. Once we have it properly understood, being able to reliably select X number of hours of a target's memory to remove could be helpful.
 
Guys, the Crake vote is wordy and sophisticated but it doesen't say much. Yohn is going to be thoroughly unimpressed by those reassurences and either get angry or demand more info.
 
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