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Paths of Civilization II: Paths of Industrialization

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SeptimusMagisto said:
Here's an alternative: maybe let's not? OTL Russia got into way too much trouble because it just had to have a port for every possible circumstance.
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Saying the russian revolution happened because of ports is too far fetched dont u think?

Thats way too far of a statement dont u think? . A lot of more important things led to russia getting into too much trouble, and many of them are unrelated to bloody ports :V
 
8bitBob said:
Situation 1: If you actually raise your Perm IC, then it is neutral.
In this situation, you are incentivized to never max IC. The best way to Industrialize is to spend all Perm IC every turn and then raise it so you gain free Temp IC. Going from 1 to 3 IC would cost nothing other than PW. Maintaining maxed Perm IC becomes actively detrimental because you don't gain free Temp IC due to raising your Perm IC.
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Hm? But, you get the same temp IC anyway, no? You have 2 IC, spend 2 temp on DI and something else, you have 3(1), you just spend two temp IC on something, you have 3(1).

DI costing nothing but PW does look a bit strange, so better to ask. @Academia Nut?
 
[X] [Kyberi] 1 PW - Send in proper negotiators and scholars to sort it all out (-1 Temp Happiness, +1 Temp Consciousness, situation resolved, ???)
[X] [Crisis] 1 PW - Send aid to the Kielmyr (-1 temp SoL, +1 Temp Trust)
[X] [Paying] 0 PW - Bank and Business Fun
-[X] [Paying] +1 Temp IC
 
Korporati said:
Saying the russian revolution happened because of ports is too far fetched dont u think?

Thats way too far of a statement dont u think? . A lot of more important things led to russia getting into too much trouble, and many of them are unrelated to bloody ports :V
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The statement was not "all of OTL Russia's problems came from wanting ports," it was "too many (which can be fewer than all) of OTL Russia's problems came from wanting ports."
 
Would like the Ymar to fuse with Kielmyr, eat the Highland Kingdom and minors. Secure the Bhosporus!
 
[X] [Kyberi] 1 PW - Send in proper negotiators and scholars to sort it all out (-1 Temp Happiness, +1 Temp Consciousness, situation resolved, ???)
[X] [Crisis] 0 PW - Remain neutral and watch (-1 Temp Trust)
[X] [Paying] 0 PW - Bank and Business Fun
-[X] [Paying] +1 Temp IC
Adhoc vote count started by sidestory on Mar 2, 2018 at 2:26 AM, finished with 531 posts and 24 votes.
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Wiadi said:
The statement was not "all of OTL Russia's problems came from wanting ports," it was "too many (which can be fewer than all) of OTL Russia's problems came from wanting ports."
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Where did i say all exactly?
My wording is more like the main/primary than all.

And no, ports are not the MAIN cause of the russia's problem.
Korporati said:
Saying the russian revolution happened because of ports is too far fetched dont u think?

Thats way too far of a statement dont u think? . A lot of more important things led to russia getting into too much trouble, and many of them are unrelated to bloody ports :V
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Korporati said:
I did adress that point did i?
And no, ports are not the MAIN cause of the russia's problem.
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That was, again, not the claim being made. Nobody is saying that ports caused most of Russia's problems/were the main cause of Russia's problems/etc. The only things being argued are that wanting ports caused some amount of trouble for Russia, and that the amount of trouble so caused was greater than it should have been. Asserting that other factors were also involved, or that ports weren't the main issue, is completely orthogonal to the point.
 
Wiadi said:
That was, again, not the claim being made. Nobody is saying that ports caused most of Russia's problems/were the main cause of Russia's problems/etc. The only things being argued are that wanting ports caused some amount of trouble for Russia, and that the amount of trouble so caused was greater than it should have been. Asserting that other factors were also involved, or that ports weren't the main issue, is completely orthogonal to the point.
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Well that changes nothing really?

He claims that TOO MANY of russia's problem were caused by ports, my point still stands that port is a minor cause that isnt TOO MANY at best and a no factor at worst. :V

And if you noticed, the exact words were TOO MANY, which can mean from some to most anyways so your last nitpicking point is moot.
 
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Prince Sheo said:
Hm... is Qeshyks a persian word?
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It might be, but I think they are the Not!Cossacks.

From : Cossak Breakdancing and Scottish Rap Battles apocrypha
Academia Nut said:
Oh! Right, one of the funniest interactions is pretty rare, but the Qeshyks are known for their elaborate and acrobatic dances, which since interaction with the Ymaryn scholars and their practice of unarmed combat for when someone attempts to resort to the Argument from the Stick, has also incorporated unarmed combat practice routines.
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That and it seems to be a military solution.
 
[X] [Kyberi] 1 PW - Send in proper negotiators and scholars to sort it all out (-1 Temp Happiness, +1 Temp Consciousness, situation resolved, ???)
[X] [Crisis] 1 PW - Send aid to the Kielmyr (-1 temp SoL, +1 Temp Trust)
[X] [Paying] 0 PW - Bank and Business Fun
-[X] [Paying] +1 Temp IC
-[X] [Paying] +1 Temp SoL

We just might bankrupt our-self with those native and Kielmyr issue, or the bank notes devalue if business went bust.
 
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Korporati said:
Well that changes nothing really?

He claims that TOO MANY of russia's problem were caused by ports, my point still stands that port is a minor cause that isnt TOO MANY at best and a no factor at worst. :V
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...dude... too many means that it caused more problems than it should've caused, no one is saying that many of Russias problems were because of ports...
 
Prince Sheo said:
...dude... too many means that it caused more problems than it should've caused, no one is saying that many of Russias problems were because of ports...
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Notice how i already changed the many part due to the nitpick in the the post you quoted?
Too many indeed can range from some to many :V

The exact meaning belongs to the one who write that himself.
 
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The port argument is at present dumb af. What are the pros and cons of contesting nohon dominance of that area?
 
Korporati said:
Saying the russian revolution happened because of ports is too far fetched dont u think?

Thats way too far of a statement dont u think? . A lot of more important things led to russia getting into too much trouble, and many of them are unrelated to bloody ports :V
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No, he means that Russia got into a war with Japan or with some other folks (like, say, Crimean War) due to the tendency to rush warmwater ports.
Russo-Japanese War being one of causes of Revolution in Russia is not really a controversial statement. WW1 was a bigger contributor...

Then again, which revolution do you mean?
It was a fairly direct cause of 1905 Revolution, albeit the spark of discontent from war fell into welcoming ground.
Still, wars are risky affairs, especially ones on far end of the supply line against the enemy with short supply line and rough parity in army strength.

[X] [Kyberi] 1 PW - Send in proper negotiators and scholars to sort it all out (-1 Temp Happiness, +1 Temp Consciousness, situation resolved, ???)
[X] [Crisis] 1 PW - Send aid to the Kielmyr (-1 temp SoL, +1 Temp Trust)
[X] [Paying] 0 PW - Bank and Business Fun
-[X] [Paying] +1 Temp IC
 
Korporati said:
Notice how i already changed the many part due to the nitpick in the the post you quoted?
Too many indeed can range from some to many :V

The exact meaning belongs to the one who write that himself.
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Yes, and the one who wrote it meant exactly what everyone is telling you, that Russias desire for ports caused more problems than it should've. The fact that you're the only one who interpreted it another way should tell you who the person misunderstanding is. Also it's funny how you are complaining about nitpicking...
 
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Umi-san said:
The port argument is at present dumb af. What are the pros and cons of contesting nohon dominance of that area?
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Pros: access to Pacific Ocean trade if we win, which is fairly rich and will become moreso once West Coast of Northern America is properly exploited; also, access to naval trade with Hung.
Cons: need to dedicate resources; Nohon will try to take them back when we are not ready to repel them; victory is not assured, and the loss will undermine security of Kyberian colonies.


Overall, I'd say we should consider it a tertiary priority: can be snatched when opportunity is present, but not worth actively beelining and sacrificing other concerns, like education, infrastructure and infiltration diplomacy for.
 
PoC!Earth cultural exports: Kung Fu Scholar martial art films. One example is their own version of Jackie Chan as archaeologist/martial artist spelunking in ancient Ymaryn ruins fighting against looters and debating the meaning of 'Fire is Warm'.
 
For those voting to aid Kielmyr, please consider adding [] [Paying] +1 Temp SoL to your Bank and Business Fun votes. Loosing 1 point of temp SoL and happiness while gaining 1 temp consciousnesses will damage our temp happiness too much, causing flare up of dangerous ideas.


[X] [Kyberi] 1 PW - Send in proper negotiators and scholars to sort it all out (-1 Temp Happiness, +1 Temp Consciousness, situation resolved, ???)
[X] [Crisis] 1 PW - Send aid to the Kielmyr (-1 temp SoL, +1 Temp Trust)
[X] [Paying] 0 PW - Bank and Business Fun
-[] [Paying] +1 Temp IC
-[X] [Paying] +1 Temp SoL

We just might bankrupt our-self with those native and Kielmyr issue, or the bank notes devalue if business went bust.
 
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Personally I want our borders to at least touch china's so we can latter build a railroad connecting us to them, we might want some more territory of course to have a buffer to deal with japan.
 
ctulhuslp said:
No, he means that Russia got into a war with Japan or with some other folks (like, say, Crimean War) due to the tendency to rush warmwater ports.
Russo-Japanese War being one of causes of Revolution in Russia is not really a controversial statement. WW1 was a bigger contributor...

Then again, which revolution do you mean?
It was a fairly direct cause of 1905 Revolution, albeit the spark of discontent from war fell into welcoming ground.
Still, wars are risky affairs, especially ones on far end of the supply line against the enemy with short supply line and rough parity in army strength.

[X] [Kyberi] 1 PW - Send in proper negotiators and scholars to sort it all out (-1 Temp Happiness, +1 Temp Consciousness, situation resolved, ???)
[X] [Crisis] 1 PW - Send aid to the Kielmyr (-1 temp SoL, +1 Temp Trust)
[X] [Paying] 0 PW - Bank and Business Fun
-[X] [Paying] +1 Temp IC
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You do know that russian already posses a warm water port in port arthur by the time of the russo-japanese war?
So the port argument for that war is moot.
The main bloody reason was russia was not willing to give japanese the control of korea.

Even though, the russian port in PORT ARTHUR which was already in russia's hand and MANCHURIA was in control of the russians. In fact, japan had negotiated till 1904 that russia recognizes KOREA as japanese sphere of influence but it would be willing to recognize MANCHURIA and PORT ARTHUR.

I never said russo japanese war was not one of the causes of russian revolution?
Ehem, where did i ever say that. Please quote it for me to see please. :V

Obviously, im referencing the 1917 one, considering 1905 failed. Despite how 1905 play a contributing factor to the later revolution developments in 1917.
Prince Sheo said:
Yes, and the one who wrote it meant exactly what everyone is telling you, that Russias desire for ports caused more problems than it should've. The fact that you're the only one who interpreted it another way should tell you who the person misunderstanding is. Also it's funny how you are complaining about nitpicking...
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The same can be said to you, the one who continue this argument even though obviously i have changed it :V
But yes, i have rephrase my argument, havent i?

[X] [Kyberi] 1 PW - Send in proper negotiators and scholars to sort it all out (-1 Temp Happiness, +1 Temp Consciousness, situation resolved, ???)
[X] [Crisis] 0 PW - Remain neutral and watch (-1 Temp Trust)
[X] [Paying] 0 PW - Bank and Business Fun
-[X] [Paying] +1 Temp IC
 
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[X] [Kyberi] 1 PW - Send in proper negotiators and scholars to sort it all out (-1 Temp Happiness, +1 Temp Consciousness, situation resolved, ???)
[X] [Crisis] 0 PW - Remain neutral and watch (-1 Temp Trust)
[X] [Paying] 0 PW - Bank and Business Fun
-[X] [Paying] +1 Temp IC
 
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