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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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Just throwing it out there, but while mistresses are frowned upon they are a thing.

Also, no disrespect to the awesome wizard waifu but she looks unlikely to enjoy the job of queen and generally ill suited to it. Unless the plan is to make Maegor the Cruel look moderate a more publicly tolerable wife would be wise.

I have not kept up with the last few thousand pages of in thread chatter, but all the Good alignment we have here it would make it really awkward to do the mass executions required to have the andal/seven worshipers subdued with the the queen and king as well as most of the royal court made of witches and worshipers of "false" gods.
 
Eleas said:
Yeah, that would do nicely.



If that's the takeaway, then sure. I was in error: I blame reading too many Quora posts with a Western-centric slant lately, particularly ones with unshakable faith in the ability to instill democracy through top-down conquest. My error was in misreading a few parallels and attributing those sentiments as a whole to the thread.

Sorry 'bout that.
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I understand you absolutely, those Quora posts would give cancer to anyone.

No really, I get your fears. I was mildly nervous the Thread would go for something like that when I started reading this quest, going into an inane crusade to bring democracy to Westeros. Can you imagine Jon the smallfolk voting for king? The guy who's never left his village in his life, can count to seven, and his answer to 'what do we do with inflation' would be to pop it with a needle. It's not an unfounded fear, I've seen quests and fanfics go that route before, and 'achieve it' which just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Some people are absolutely convinced of the virtues of Western democracy and cannot fathom a better system, which I suppose is like said farmer looking at his technological base and declaring that there can be no better system than feudalism.

Fortunately, the Thread had other ideas.
 
ilalthal said:
Just throwing it out there, but while mistresses are frowned upon they are a thing.

Also, no disrespect to the awesome wizard waifu but she looks unlikely to enjoy the job and gpenerally ill suited to it. Unless the plan is to make Maegor the Cruel look moderate a more publicly tolerable wife would be wise.

I have not kept up with the last few thousand pages of in thread chatter, but all the Good alignment we have here it would make it really awkward to do the mass executions required to have the andal/seven worshipers subdued with the the queen and king as well as most of the royal court made of witches and worshipers of "false" gods.
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What you are proposing just won't happen. We've already made that politically untenable, so there is no going back on it now. Politics and notions of nobility be damned.

Also, despite the few among our party with outright Good alignments, not a one protested or even expressed any concerns when we slaughtered a thousand or so virtually defenseless sellswords for inadvertently working for Tiamat and having the temerity to enslave the Little Valyrians.
 
[X] Goldfish

Snowfire, I respect that you are very invested in this, but you've already managed to salt your way into one retcon of the voted option, please try not to get greedy about it.
Please note that I didn't vote for that option either, so I'm not really defending 'my' choice as such, but I think you are massively, massively overreacting here.
I know that real world psychology is very complex, and I respect that you have the real world expertise here, but in this case we have a literal magic spell that cures insanity and explicitly 'leaves the targets feeling refreshed and at peace.'
I know that this isn't how things work IRL, and of course it would be preferable not to have to use it, but 'Heart's ease cures emotional wounds in the same way that heal wipes away physical ones.'

Also, as someone else pointed out 'headstrong young man in love' is not such an out of context problem for someone like our mother that it would break her mind like gazing upon the far realms.
Please calm down, the sky isn't falling.
 
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@Goldfish

It does a decent job of pushing the conversation of "Lya's not just a mistress?" back to when our mother can talk to us about it. I'd include protecting the world and fighting horrors in Lya's resume as well, as well as crediting her more with putting together our understanding of magic. Viserys has helped, but she's carried the majority of work needed once he got her properly going.
 
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Diomedon said:
@Goldfish

It does a decent job of pushing the conversation of "Lya's not just a mistress?" back to when our mother can talk to us about it. I'd include protecting the world and fighting horrors in Lya's resume as well, as well as crediting her more with putting together our understanding of magic. Viserys has helped, but she's carried the majority of work needed once he got her properly going.
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Done. Thoughts?

[X] Plan "The sky is not falling!"
-[X] "Mother, it is my honor to introduce my good friends and allies, Tyene Sand and Vee." Indicate the two young women. "Each wields great magical power which they have used to protect the world from horrors beyond counting."
-[X] "And this is Lya, known by some as Lya the Sage. As skilled a worker of magic and mystery as is to be found in this world or the next. She, too, has fought beside me, standing firm against the darkness which plagues the world. No doubt you have been able to discern from our previous discussions that she is much more to me than just a friend or close ally?"
-[X] Then gesturing to his mother. "Ladies, may I present my mother, Rhaella Targaryen, Dowager Queen of the Seven Kingdoms."
 
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Yeah, with Mercy I could see the potential wreckage, but with Lya the worst that can happen is 'Oh shit, my son pulled a Prince Duncan, Damage Control Mode ACTIVATED'. Nothing she can do right now so she'll wait until we get to SD and things quiet down... and by then we'll tell her all the wondrous powers Lya can bring to bear, most of which would send a hundred thousand reacher swords running like lemmings.
 
Speaking about arranged marriages, I'm somewhat surprised the Queen of Thornes hasn't sent a few feelers to SD, see if MAergery can marry a Dragon instead of a stag in the far future. Nothing traceable to her of course, just a trump card she can pull if Mace 'The Ace' gets ideas.

'But Mace, I already got a King for Maergery!'
 
bigbow said:
Yeah, with Mercy I could see the potential wreckage, but with Lya the worst that can happen is 'Oh shit, my son pulled a Prince Duncan, Damage Control Mode ACTIVATED'.
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I was in the process of typing something just like this. Giving her something she both sees as a problem and feels she has the tools to attempt to fix might actually be helpful to her mental state, if anything.
 
Goldfish said:
Done. Thoughts?

[X] Plan "The sky is not falling!"
-[X] "Mother, it is my honor to introduce my good friends and allies, Tyene Sand and Vee." Indicate the two young women. "Each wields great magical power which they have used to protect the world from horrors beyond counting."
-[X] "And this is Lya, known by some as Lya the Sage. As skilled a worker of magic and mystery as is to be found in this world or the next. She, too, has fought beside me, standing firm against the darkness which plagues the world. No doubt you have been able to discern from our previous discussions that she is more to me than just a friend or close ally?"
-[X] Then gesturing to his mother. "Ladies, may I present my mother, Rhaella Targaryen, Dowager Queen of the Seven Kingdoms."
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Looks good! I'll probably wait to see what Snowfire rolls out and decide if it's good enough that I'd want to have this conversation now, or try to push it until later, when business is concluded, at the risk of letting Rhaella stew.
 
[X] Goldfish
@Snowfire and here I thought it was my prerogative to panic and overreact at any sign of challenge and/or things going wrong.
C'mon man, it's just isn't fun to have "Well, shit" moment when someone else is having it and been doing so for last 20+ pages
}:C
 
bigbow said:
Speaking about arranged marriages, I'm somewhat surprised the Queen of Thornes hasn't sent a few feelers to SD, see if MAergery can marry a Dragon instead of a stag in the far future. Nothing traceable to her of course, just a trump card she can pull if Mace 'The Ace' gets ideas.

'But Mace, I already got a King for Maergery!'
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Bear in mind that book Mace is only fumbling and oafish instead of the outright incompetent show Mace.
 
Alright, let's get down to brass tacks here.

[X] Wings Against The Sun
-[X] "Mother, it is my honour to introduce three of the friends and allies I've told you of. Vee, Tyene Sand and Lya, some of my first fellows in magic." Indicate each in turn. "All of them possess powers rivalling my own, and have used them to protect the world from horrors beyond counting."
-[X] "Ladies, may I present my mother, Rhaella Targaryen, Dowager Queen of the Seven Kingdoms."

So, this is basically what @Goldfish has built except without drawing attention to our relationship with Lya in the introduction. There is a reason for this, and it's to do with the longpost I made regarding my fears about her presence. What I want here is to have Rhaella bring up the matter of our relationship to Lya, as that means she's the one behind it and is therefore (theoretically) in control of it within her own mind. Drawing deliberate attention to it is shoving it at her, which I think I've already put enough work into describing why I believe it's a bad idea. That's pretty much it. Keep it simple, and don't draw attention. Let Rhaella go after the answers we know she's going to want, and be prepared for those questions. But once more, leave it to being her choice.
 
Snowfire said:
Alright, let's get down to brass tacks here.

[X] Wings Against The Sun
-[X] "Mother, it is my honour to introduce three of the friends and allies I've told you of. Vee, Tyene Sand and Lya, some of my first fellows in magic." Indicate each in turn. "All of them possess powers rivalling my own, and have used them to protect the world from horrors beyond counting."
-[X] "Ladies, may I present my mother, Rhaella Targaryen, Dowager Queen of the Seven Kingdoms."

So, this is basically what @Goldfish has built except without drawing attention to our relationship with Lya in the introduction. There is a reason for this, and it's to do with the longpost I made regarding my fears about her presence. What I want here is to have Rhaella bring up the matter of our relationship to Lya, as that means she's the one behind it and is therefore (theoretically) in control of it within her own mind. Drawing deliberate attention to it is shoving it at her, which I think I've already put enough work into describing why I believe it's a bad idea. That's pretty much it. Keep it simple, and don't draw attention. Let Rhaella go after the answers we know she's going to want, and be prepared for those questions. But once more, leave it to being her choice.
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I get where you're coming from, but I don't think it's a bad thing to let Rhaella know that Viserys knows that she knows about Lya. It wouldn't be difficult for him to discern that she was reading between the lines of everything he's told her thus far.
 
Goldfish said:
I get where you're coming from, but I don't think it's a bad thing to let Rhaella know that Viserys knows that she knows about Lya. It wouldn't be difficult for him to discern that she was reading between the lines of everything he's told her thus far.
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Hmm.. I think she already knows we know she knows, DP hinted at it during one of the Beyond the Wall interludes. This introduction could also set Lya as our 'mistress' in her mind. After all, the reason Snowfire was panicking about is the same one that should make Rhaella consider that we're just waiting for a match to marry, independent of keeping Lya or not. Permanent mistresses are nothing new in Westeros, distasteful yes but nothing to go koo koo about.

[X] Snowfire
 
... you know what, there's a perfectly good reason we can't have a political marriage with an NPC aristocrat...

You guys remember the status of Viserys' room after him and Lya had a little one on one?

[X] But mother! Lya is the only person I can have sex with without killing the other participant!
 
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bigbow said:
... you know what, there's a perfectly good reason we can't have a political marriage with an NPC aristocrat...

You guys remember the status of Viserys' room after him and Lya had a little one on one?

[:V] But mother! Lya is the only person I can have sex with without killing the other participant!
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*tilts head*

*opens mouth*

...

*closes mouth*
 
So, it's been brought to my attention that the...um...fuck it, call it what it is. That the rant I posted almost in tandem with the latest update could be read and in some cases was read as being a personal attack in all but name on those who orchestrated the vote which led to it. Let me be clear, not just to those who might have felt that, but to the entire thread, that that was never my intention. Yes, I got salty (and, I'll be honest, angry) about the fact that the decisions made were...let's go with damaging to what I'd been trying to do. But at the end of the day, I can't ask you all to keep to a plan when I'm the only one who really knows it and I won't share. So...yeah. This situation as it stands is, at least in part, on me as just as much as anyone who voted.

Saying sorry doesn't seem enough, but unfortunately it's all I can really give. That, and a solemn vow that the post in question was never meant aggressively, for all that large parts of it ended up being written so. I'll get to replies on questions about my vote in a few, just need to process this in the hopes of internalising enough that I don't do it again.
 
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bigbow said:
I understand you absolutely, those Quora posts would give cancer to anyone.

No really, I get your fears. I was mildly nervous the Thread would go for something like that when I started reading this quest, going into an inane crusade to bring democracy to Westeros. Can you imagine Jon the smallfolk voting for king? The guy who's never left his village in his life, can count to seven, and his answer to 'what do we do with inflation' would be to pop it with a needle. It's not an unfounded fear, I've seen quests and fanfics go that route before, and 'achieve it' which just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Some people are absolutely convinced of the virtues of Western democracy and cannot fathom a better system, which I suppose is like said farmer looking at his technological base and declaring that there can be no better system than feudalism.

Fortunately, the Thread had other ideas.
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I know where you are coming from. The amount of 'democracies' I've seen in fiction who are build entirely out of Handwavium and reinforced with Plottanium is ridiculous.
And I'm not talking about only fanfics and quests there.

Rule of thumb, if you can't be arsed to think about politics, you shouldn't write about politics.
 
We really don't need to worry about this whole thing with Lya too much, we have the ultimate trump card argument in the fact we can't marry someone who's anything less than a powerhouse or they will die if someone makes a serious attempt at killing them.

We then clarify that when we say serious attempt we mean things like Dragons.
 
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