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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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We should ask for something in return. Just dumping money without profit, are you Magpies or not?

We should ask for permission to send retrieval or diplomatic missions Beyond the Wall (junior PC training). Rights to magical items found by rangers as well.
 
Azel said:
@Duesal, please stagger this out. They are bound to waste a good deal of that money on arms otherwise.
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I already stole liberally from your proposal. :p I'm going to add in something about making it clear that this will not be our only visit and that we will be giving them better armor and weapons so they should make sure to spend the gold elsewhere.
@DragonParadox, is now a good time to bring up the giants with the Night's Watch?
 
Y'all are going overboard with the money and proposed gifts. What we plan to give them will reduce their expenses considerably. And we'll be able to start giving the stuff to them well before they would need to spend all that coin.

[X] Plan Quartermaster
-[X] Arms & Armor: We will provide every member of the Nightwatch with Masterwork armor and weapons of the highest quality, including weapons and projectiles fashioned from dragonglass. We should be able to begin delivering on this promise within a month's time.
-[X] We can provide magical healing to anyone suffering from injury or illness.
-[X] Along with deliveries of weapons and armor, we can also provide significant quantities of high quality foodstuffs. These we can begin much sooner, within a week or two, if there are no emergencies we must deal with.
-[X] Although they may be understandably wary of magic, we can provide them with simple but effective enchanted items which would greatly aid them in their duties and reduce their expenses considerably. Lanterns which burn continually with no heat and which require no fuel, items which can provide a limited amount of magical healing each day, and another which would allow a man who touches it to endure even the terrible cold of the North as if it was a pleasant spring day.
-[X] In the interim, while we gather and craft all of this, we would leave 1,000 IM to augment their finances. Ask that this money be spent on critical supplies or saved for emergencies, as we are hoping to provide for all of their needs that would otherwise require them to expend their limited funds.
-[X] We have in our service benevolent creatures capable of working stone as if it were clay. If the Lord Commander agrees, we can lend the aid of a team of Pech who would be tasked with repairing the deteriorating fortifications used by the Nightwatch.
 
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DragonParadox said:
I's probably best to build up some trust before introducing them to Xor. He can be... startling.
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Couldn't he use his ring to gain human form, while someone casts Lesser Restoration to magic away the fatigue?
Azel said:
Proposal
2500 IM right now

Next month:
300 suits of plate
300 weapons as ordered
2000 obsidian daggers
50,000 obsidian arrowheads
2500 IM
50 Healing Belt

The month after:
400 suits of plate
400 weapons as ordered
Obsidian prefab parts for castles
Obsidian spikes for fortifications
2500 IM
1 statue of Resist Cold for Castle Black

Then we negotiate further
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If most are Rangers, than they can make better use of Reinforced Breastplates than all fullplates. They do have to go walking around the north, and preferably stealthly.
 
Obsidian is a really poor construction stone, for the same reasons it is a wonderful cutting tool. As for armor, I proposed a choice of chain shirts (for people who usually wear no armor), breastplates, and full plate for trained knights who request them. They should be able to provide a list of roughly how many of each they'd need.

TotallyNotEvil said:
@Diomedon looking at the latest Legion plan I've found, you don't specify what's the make up of the Crossbowmen Company/Century/Squad.

Also, we should probably have two Cavalru Companies of 500 each. Monstrous/flying cavalry will be relegated to elite auxilia.

Also, we should figure out skills for each level/role. City Watch, for example, can do with Intimidate, Spot and Sense Motive. Soldiers only need Profession Soldier, with an even mix of maxed Spot/Listen. Sargeants can do with Knowledge (War) or some Profession-related tactics thing, as well as some points in management.

I'm thinking about favoring Dragonseeds for Standard Bearer positions, making them Dragonfire Imspiration bards with Draconic Auras, and the various field commanders would be Marshal/Fighters.
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Now that I'm awake...

The crossbowmen engage 1 rank deep, and they mostly have the same skillset. If DP likes my proposed "commander NPC class" for representing C&C, then they start having more effect from being there, but all the officers in the crossbowmen just mostly shout and do officer like things, and make the call for when to filter back behind the infantry (and organize that to be as fast and undisruptive as possible). Their skills don't really matter for the shooting bit.

I should work a bit at the skills thing. I want to build a "marine" npc warrior as well, with a quick release breastplate, to serve as "heavy" infantry during boarding actions, and skill selection is important there as well.

As for legion cavalry, I based the numbers off of what roman legions needed. They're more for screening/scouting purposes than acting as heavy cav. I figure we will have an overabundance of heavy cav. once we start picking up local knights, who count as local auxiliaries to the legion, rather than core legion troops. It's moot right now, because we have 0 in house cavalry at all.

As for standard bearer, until we start churning out more magic people I wouldn't hold my breath. I think initially it'll just be a guy with the flag-bearer feat.
 
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Goldfish said:
-[X] Eventually, we would like to offer a chance for select Brothers to take a leave of absence and come to Sorcerer's Deep in order to learn magic, if at all possible. Even minor magics can be of great assistance against the monsters that now plague the land, not to mention the harsh nature of the North itself
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Then offer this eventually. DP said this isn't a good topic to breach as of now.
 
We can use Hardening on obsidian to make it less brittle, right? That should help a lot for things that aren't, for the most part, circumstance dependent (stabbing Others with dragonglass), disposable (arrows), etc.

Also, magical items made out of obsidian cannot be broken with mundane force. Just like magical swords are supernaturally sharp/durable.
 
Diomedon said:
Okay, throwing together an Officer Class, its base is the Aristocrat NPC class, with a small handful of class features added (NPCs don't usually get any class features, so being sparse on purpose here).

Officer
Alignment: Any
Hit Die: d8
Class Skills: As Aristocrat
Skill Points at first level: (4 + INT modifier) x4
Skill Points at each additional level: 4 + INT modifier
BaB: Medium Progression
Fort Save: Poor
Reflex Save: Poor
Will Save: Good
Weapon Proficiency: The Officer is proficient in all types of simple and martial weapons, all armors, and all shields.

Class Features:
Battlecry (EX): At first level, gain the feat Battlecry, regardless of prerequisites. This uses one available feat gained at this level. If no feats are gained upon the character's first level of Officer, retrain one existing feat as battlecry.

Commander of Men (EX): At second level, and every third level thereafter, gain a bonus teamwork feat. The Officer may grant one teamwork feat that they know to men under their command as a free action, up to one unit if in mass combat, or up to 30' range otherwise.

Level Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Special
1 +0 +0 +0 +2 Battlecry
2 +1 +0 +0 +3 Commander of Men, Teamwork feat
3 +2 +1 +1 +3  
4 +3 +1 +1 +4  
5 +3 +1 +1 +4 Teamwork Feat
6 +4 +2 +2 +5  
7 +5 +2 +2 +5  
8 +6/+1 +2 +2 +6 Teamwork Feat
9 +6/+1 +3 +3 +6  
10 +7/+2 +3 +3 +7  
11 +8/+3 +3 +3 +7 Teamwork Feat
12 +9/+4 +4 +4 +8  
13 +9/+4 +4 +4 +8  
14 +10/+5 +4 +4 +9 Teamwork Feat
15 +11/+6/+1 +5 +5 +9  
16 +12/+7/+2 +5 +5 +10  
17 +12/+7/+2 +5 +5 +10 Teamwork Feat
18 +13/+8/+3 +6 +6 +11  
19 +14/+9/+4 +6 +6 +11  
20 +15/+10/+5 +6 +6 +12 Teamwork Feat

Basically, the officer has battlecry without having to train Perform (Oratory) or limiting our officers to only level 5 Warriors, and also grants the effect of one teamwork feat to their men. In practice, this means most units have one extra teamwork feat, which I think represents the added coordination of having officers quite nicely, but the higher officers can move towards the front to add their coordination effects as well, representing commanding a particular area more closely in exchange for moving close to the front.

Thoughts?
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Here. The "must take battlecry" bit is a small deliberate drawback since an "NPC" class shouldn't have any class features, but they do. It's supposed to be someone who is slightly more elite than an NPC, but doesn't quite get to PC class levels.

Crake said:
We can use Hardening on obsidian to make it less brittle, right? That should help a lot for things that aren't, for the most part, circumstance dependent (stabbing Others with dragonglass), disposable (arrows), etc.

Also, magical items made out of obsidian cannot be broken with mundane force. Just like magical swords are supernaturally sharp/durable.
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Hardening used on metal and/or minerals drops to 1 cubic ft/level so it becomes a lot harder to take advantage of (I checked if we could harden all our steel).
 
@Goldfish proposal seems better, though I'd like to gift them the resist cold statue as well. Its both pragmatic and cool.

More money we can gift them with time, we should not splurge on our cash reserves! We will not only rebuild Tyrosh, we will make it greater than it ever has been with great magical and infrastructure projects, + funding ACSEC as well as turning Westhaven into a Legion Island and shoving as many warm bodies into it as we can. I repeat, we will be starved for cash because of this, and the plane of Air trip where the Thread will go mad and BUY! EVERYTHING! Will certainly not help.
Adhoc vote count started by bigbow on Jan 25, 2018 at 8:54 AM, finished with 144202 posts and 8 votes.
  • [X] Aid for the Watch
    -[X] 2500 IM right now
    --[X] Make it clear that you will be providing weapons and armor in your next visit, so the gold is best spent elsewhere.
    -[X] Next month:
    --[X] 300 suits of armor as ordered (anything from a chainmail to fullplate, make it clear that there is no limitation, they can get whatever they ask for in the highest quality)
    --[X] 300 weapons as ordered
    --[X] 2000 obsidian daggers
    --[X] 50,000 obsidian arrowheads
    --[X] Another 2500 IM
    --[X] 50 Healing Belt
    -[X] The month after:
    --[X] 400 suits of armor as ordered (anything from a chainmail to fullplate)
    --[X] 400 weapons as ordered
    --[X] Obsidian prefab parts for castles
    --[X] Obsidian spikes for fortifications
    --[X] 1 statue of Resist Cold for Castle Black
    -[X] Amulets of PfE over time for their elite Rangers who brave the dangers Beyond the Wall (no set time on this, this will be as we acquire the time and resources to see them crafted), items of Cold Resistance, too. Possibly more magic items as we think of them.
    -[X] Magical healing while we're here now, and when we drop supplies off at the Wall. We can remove diseases and addictions, etc, basically anything short of amputations.
    -[X] Help restoring the castles of the Wall so that they don't end up wasting all their gifted gold on it. (We intend to use Xor and the Lute, but will save that for later after we've built a good relationship with the Night's Watch.
    -[X] Food and other supplies that they request will come with the first supply drop, but they need to give us a comprehensive list of everything they want.
    -[X] Ask permission to on occasion send your own mages or others loyal to you Beyond the Wall, either to hunt magic items or slay monsters or any other business you might have.
    -[X] Promise to send mages and others as recruits to the Night's Watch whenever you can.
    [X] Plan Quartermaster
    -[X] Arms & Armor: We will provide every member of the Nightwatch with Masterwork armor and weapons of the highest quality, including weapons and projectiles fashioned from dragonglass. We should be able to begin delivering on this promise within a month's time.
    -[X] We can provide magical healing to anyone suffering from injury or illness.
    -[X] Along with deliveries of weapons and armor, we can also provide significant quantities of high quality foodstuffs. These we can begin much sooner, within a week or two, if there are no emergencies we must deal with.
    -[X] Although they may be understandably wary of magic, we can provide them with simple but effective enchanted items which would greatly aid them in their duties and reduce their expenses considerably. Lanterns which burn continually with no heat and which require no fuel, items which can provide a limited amount of magical healing each day, and another which would allow a man who touches it to endure even the terrible cold of the North as if it was a pleasant spring day.
    -[X] In the interim, while we gather and craft all of this, we would leave 1,000 IM to augment their finances.
    -[X] We have in our service benevolent creatures capable of working stone as if it were clay. If the Lord Commander agrees, we can lend the aid of a team of Pech who would be tasked with repairing the deteriorating fortifications used by the Nightwatch.
    -[X] Eventually, we would like to offer a chance for select Brothers to take a leave of absence and come to Sorcerer's Deep in order to learn magic, if at all possible. Even minor magics can be of great assistance against the monsters that now plague the land, not to mention the harsh nature of the North itself.
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@Diomedon, the prefab parts are meant as an outer shell to deter Other minions, not as structural parts.

If they are conceptually weak to obsidian, their magic should have it much harder to affect structures plated in the stuff.
 
But we have an effectively limitless source of obsidian? Good point about the steel, but hardening obsidian turns it from a resource more likely to dwindle into one that will have a better degree of longevity. It won't shatter from one misplaced strike.

Dunno about the worth of prefab parts made from it, but bolts with obsidian tips that have been hardened would be great for piercing deeply into big monsters.
Adhoc vote count started by Crake on Jan 25, 2018 at 9:33 AM, finished with 144226 posts and 12 votes.
  • [X] Aid for the Watch
    -[X] 2500 IM right now
    --[X] Make it clear that you will be providing weapons and armor in your next visit, so the gold is best spent elsewhere.
    --[X] Also make it clear that you will be helping restore the castles of the Night's Watch for free when time allows (when you're sure they won't react too poorly to Xor).
    --[X] Room to negotiate for more monetary aid in the future if the Night's Watch has need of it.
    -[X] Next month:
    --[X] 300 suits of armor as ordered (anything from a chainmail to fullplate, make it clear that there is no limitation, they can get whatever they ask for in the highest quality)
    --[X] 300 weapons as ordered
    --[X] 2000 obsidian daggers
    --[X] 50,000 obsidian arrowheads
    --[X] 50 Healing Belt
    -[X] The month after:
    --[X] 400 suits of armor as ordered (anything from a chainmail to fullplate)
    --[X] 400 weapons as ordered
    --[X] Obsidian prefab parts for castles
    --[X] Obsidian spikes for fortifications
    --[X] 1 statue of Resist Cold for Castle Black
    -[X] Amulets of PfE over time for their elite Rangers who brave the dangers Beyond the Wall (no set time on this, this will be as we acquire the time and resources to see them crafted), items of Cold Resistance, too. Possibly more magic items as we think of them.
    -[X] Magical healing while we're here now, and when we drop supplies off at the Wall. We can remove diseases and addictions, etc, basically anything short of amputations.
    -[X] Food and other supplies that they request will come with the first supply drop, but they need to give us a comprehensive list of everything they want.
    -[X] Ask permission to on occasion send your own mages or others loyal to you Beyond the Wall, either to hunt magic items or slay monsters or any other business you might have.
    -[X] Promise to send mages and others as recruits to the Night's Watch whenever you can.
    [X] Plan Quartermaster
    -[X] Arms & Armor: We will provide every member of the Nightwatch with Masterwork armor and weapons of the highest quality, including weapons and projectiles fashioned from dragonglass. We should be able to begin delivering on this promise within a month's time.
    -[X] We can provide magical healing to anyone suffering from injury or illness.
    -[X] Along with deliveries of weapons and armor, we can also provide significant quantities of high quality foodstuffs. These we can begin much sooner, within a week or two, if there are no emergencies we must deal with.
    -[X] Although they may be understandably wary of magic, we can provide them with simple but effective enchanted items which would greatly aid them in their duties and reduce their expenses considerably. Lanterns which burn continually with no heat and which require no fuel, items which can provide a limited amount of magical healing each day, and another which would allow a man who touches it to endure even the terrible cold of the North as if it was a pleasant spring day.
    -[X] In the interim, while we gather and craft all of this, we would leave 1,000 IM to augment their finances.
    -[X] We have in our service benevolent creatures capable of working stone as if it were clay. If the Lord Commander agrees, we can lend the aid of a team of Pech who would be tasked with repairing the deteriorating fortifications used by the Nightwatch.
Click to expand...
 
Azel said:
@Diomedon, the prefab parts are meant as an outer shell to deter Other minions, not as structural parts.

If they are conceptually weak to obsidian, their magic should have it much harder to affect structures plated in the stuff.
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It's ridiculously brittle though. Like, throwing rocks by hand for a few minutes and a normal person could cause a several inch thick sheet of it to structurally collapse into small shards, much less what magic can bring to bear. I think it'd be better to just drop caltrop like shards all along the base of the wall.
 
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Could we loan them the Seeker or Ser Richard to train up some watchmen as magebreakers? It'd certainly help against any magic that gets thrown around.
 
bigbow said:
@Goldfish proposal seems better, though I'd like to gift them the resist cold statue as well. Its both pragmatic and cool.

More money we can gift them with time, we should not splurge on our cash reserves! We will not only rebuild Tyrosh, we will make it greater than it ever has been with great magical and infrastructure projects, + funding ACSEC as well as turning Westhaven into a Legion Island and shoving as many warm bodies into it as we can. I repeat, we will be starved for cash because of this, and the plane of Air trip where the Thread will go mad and BUY! EVERYTHING! Will certainly not help.
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We are gifting them more money with time, this is spread out over the course of several months. Frankly, even all at once, this won't be too big a dent in our cash reserves.

Tyrosh shouldn't take more than 20,000 IM, and that's with serious damage when we take the city (which we're expressly avoiding). It already has the base infrastructure which we don't need to spend money on, and the Lyre of Building and Mending and Make Whole can handle most repairs.

As for the Plane of Air thing, that's 20,000 IM - 30,000 IM in crafting materials, and hopefully a few griffon and hippogriff eggs (and quite frankly I doubt we'd end up spending this much).

So, even after like 7,500 IM to the Nights Watch, 20,000 to Tyrosh, and 30,000 IM in the Plane of Air, that costs us 65,000 IM. We'd still have 20,676 IM as our reserve.

And this is to say nothing of the various things we'll kill and loot along the way in Plane of Air and in Tyrosh. There are lots of rich manses to confiscate. And in the Plane of Air that's a prime place for encounters.
Takesis said:
I don't want to needlesly splurge on something that we won't be profiting from.

[X] Goldfish
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You don't see preparation against the Long Night as profit for us?
 
Silver719 said:
Could we loan them the Seeker or Ser Richard to train up some watchmen as magebreakers? It'd certainly help against any magic that gets thrown around.
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I don't want to train any magebreakers unless they're unquestionably loyal and Ser Richard is training them for our Kingsguard. Also, the Seeker is simply too valuable to us to consider loaning it out.
 
Duesal said:
We are gifting them more money with time, this is spread out over the course of several months. Frankly, even all at once, this won't be too big a dent in our cash reserves.

Tyrosh shouldn't take more than 20,000 IM, and that's with serious damage when we take the city (which we're expressly avoiding). It already has the base infrastructure which we don't need to spend money on, and the Lyre of Building and Mending and Make Whole can handle most repairs.

As for the Plane of Air thing, that's 20,000 IM - 30,000 IM in crafting materials, and hopefully a few griffon and hippogriff eggs (and quite frankly I doubt we'd end up spending this much).

So, even after like 7,500 IM to the Nights Watch, 20,000 to Tyrosh, and 30,000 IM in the Plane of Air, that costs us 65,000 IM. We'd still have 20,676 IM as our reserve.

And this is to say nothing of the various things we'll kill and loot along the way in Plane of Air and in Tyrosh. There are lots of rich manses to confiscate. And in the Plane of Air that's a prime place for encounters.

You don't see preparation against the Long Night as profit for us?
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The point is that they simply don't need all that money right now. It's more than they can spend in a reasonable amount of time, given their location, and most of it won't be needed once we start supplying them in earnest.
 
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