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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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Which reminds me. Thanks to Draconic Power, at 20th level our standard 5th Level spell Teleport will be able to bypass the Wall. :D
 
Have we considered using the fact that we're not raiding the North and are going to give the Starks gifts to make Robert believe that we have some sort of secret agreement with Ned?
 
iggyfan said:
Have we considered using the fact that we're not raiding the North and are going to give the Starks gifts to make Robert believe that we have some sort of secret agreement with Ned?
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We are not messing with the Starks at all. What you're proposing would be the exact opposite of diplomancing them and would very successfully alienate them since they'd be angry at our meddling and misleading which would spark a war. There's a very good reason we haven't marched right up to Winterfell already.

EDIT: To clarify, the Old Gods gave us a prophecy that the Starks would become loyal to us if we saved them in their darkest hour. Until that time comes we're leaving them alone. We're not going to try to provoke Robert into attacking the Starks because that will bite us in the ass, and in addition to making us lose the Starks who wouldn't want such a duplicitous king, it ultimately only hurts our preparations for the Long Night.
 
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Well, looks like discussion has died down, so here's the legion retention/retirement plan. We want to reduce desertion, so I figure they sign up, and every year there is a period where people get the option to "opt out" and retire, so they know they can leave at the designated time if they've begun to tired of service with a pat on the back instead of being hunted down and a hanging. Of course, that might be delayed on an active campaign until the "end" of the campaign for that legion (would be done instead when the legion is rotated to the rear areas to replace casualties and for R&R), and the period wouldn't be determined by soldier, but instead by legion to keep thing streamlined. However, a soldier must have served three years minimum with the legion before they can leave (or five years for an officer).

So a legion is rotated out, the leavers leave, new recruits are poured in to replace both the leavers and casualties, their equipment is given a once over, and then they're either shuffled to a new area (if they're on garrison/fortification duty), or they take extra time to rest and drill in the new recruits before heading back to the front.

Pay is decent, the work steady, but we want to encourage them to make careers out of it. So, the place where serving in the military really shines is in the retirement benefits, which kick in after every 5 years of service, scaling with rank (the given examples are for the lowest rank of linemen).

5 years of service: A nice cash bonus
10 years of service: Legion Arms and Shield, and a plot of land large enough to support one household (thus varies on location), and the nice cash bonus.
15 years of service: The right to use the style "Veteran" which denotes that you have been granted the soldier class for the rest of your life (officers, who have already earned this with their commission, instead gain the right to continue to use their legion rank after retirement, though it gives no command authority), the Legion Arms and Shield, and a plot of land large enough to support one household, and the nice cash bonus.
20 years of service: A double plot of land (could support two households) , the right to use the style veteran, the legion arms and shield, and the nice cash bonus.

If desired, they can trade in their earned land for more cash.

After 20 years, they can continue to serve (as long as they are fit to), but their retirement package doesn't get any better, but if they're sticking around at that point, they're not in it for the benefits.

If a soldier is injured or cursed beyond our ability to heal and put them back to work (for example, we don't have enough people who know regeneration), they will be granted a small construct (wooden, costs 40 IM) so they are not reduced to begging, and have a means of working. Ideally, we'd have enough high level healers who don't mind healing people that it wouldn't come up, but we don't have any right this second, and knowing they are taken care of should help maintain morale and loyalty of our troops, even if we can't always regrow everyone's missing bits.

If a soldier dies, any retirement benefits they have earned are granted to their widow or heir (assuming they have a widow or heir) if possible (the soldier class and styling rights cannot, but everything else can be granted). If they have not earned any retirement benefits, their widow or heir will receive three years of pay.

Proposed Scaling:

Line soldier: 1
Specialist soldier (horn blower, sergeant, standard bearer, etc.): 1.5
Lieutenant: 3
Centurion/Quartermaster: 4
Commander: 8
Captain: 9
Lieutenant General: 18
General: 20

Of course, we could always grant additional rewards to heroes of battles, or extremely distinguished generals. This is just the guaranteed minimum.
 
@Diomedon, I was toying with the idea of something really special for 20-year veterans, like getting a minor (approved) magic item as part of their reward. Say something that costs ~50-70 IM. These will be the most loyal men in our kingdom, and by then we honestly will be rich enough that we'd never notice the loss of money.

As is, the retirement package is already really good, I just think the magic item thing would be pretty harmless, be a great incentive to work towards, and add some wonderful flavor to the whole reward system. Gives them another heirloom/something to sell if times get rough on them.
 
Diomedon said:
Well, looks like discussion has died down, so here's the legion retention/retirement plan. We want to reduce desertion, so I figure they sign up, and every year there is a period where people get the option to "opt out" and retire, so they know they can leave at the designated time if they've begun to tired of service with a pat on the back instead of being hunted down and a hanging. Of course, that might be delayed on an active campaign until the "end" of the campaign for that legion (would be done instead when the legion is rotated to the rear areas to replace casualties and for R&R), and the period wouldn't be determined by soldier, but instead by legion to keep thing streamlined. However, a soldier must have served three years minimum with the legion before they can leave (or five years for an officer).

So a legion is rotated out, the leavers leave, new recruits are poured in to replace both the leavers and casualties, their equipment is given a once over, and then they're either shuffled to a new area (if they're on garrison/fortification duty), or they take extra time to rest and drill in the new recruits before heading back to the front.

Pay is decent, the work steady, but we want to encourage them to make careers out of it. So, the place where serving in the military really shines is in the retirement benefits, which kick in after every 5 years of service, scaling with rank (the given examples are for the lowest rank of linemen).

5 years of service: A nice cash bonus
10 years of service: Legion Arms and Shield, and a plot of land large enough to support one household (thus varies on location), and the nice cash bonus.
15 years of service: The right to use the style "Veteran" which denotes that you have been granted the soldier class for the rest of your life (officers, who have already earned this with their commission, instead gain the right to continue to use their legion rank after retirement, though it gives no command authority), the Legion Arms and Shield, and a plot of land large enough to support one household, and the nice cash bonus.
20 years of service: A double plot of land (could support two households) , the right to use the style veteran, the legion arms and shield, and the nice cash bonus.

If desired, they can trade in their earned land for more cash.

After 20 years, they can continue to serve (as long as they are fit to), but their retirement package doesn't get any better, but if they're sticking around at that point, they're not in it for the benefits.

If a soldier is injured or cursed beyond our ability to heal and put them back to work (for example, we don't have enough people who know regeneration), they will be granted a small construct (wooden, costs 40 IM) so they are not reduced to begging, and have a means of working. Ideally, we'd have enough high level healers who don't mind healing people that it wouldn't come up, but we don't have any right this second, and knowing they are taken care of should help maintain morale and loyalty of our troops, even if we can't always regrow everyone's missing bits.

If a soldier dies, any retirement benefits they have earned are granted to their widow or heir (assuming they have a widow or heir) if possible (the soldier class and styling rights cannot, but everything else can be granted). If they have not earned any retirement benefits, their widow or heir will receive three years of pay.

Proposed Scaling:

Line soldier: 1
Specialist soldier (horn blower, sergeant, standard bearer, etc.): 1.5
Lieutenant: 3
Centurion/Quartermaster: 4
Commander: 8
Captain: 9
Lieutenant General: 18
General: 20

Of course, we could always grant additional rewards to heroes of battles, or extremely distinguished generals. This is just the guaranteed minimum.
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Does the scaling apply to everything? Eng. 20 year General gets 2*20 plots of land for a total of 40?
 
Duesal said:
@Diomedon, I was toying with the idea of something really special for 20-year veterans, like getting a minor (approved) magic item as part of their reward. Say something that costs ~50-70 IM. These will be the most loyal men in our kingdom, and by then we honestly will be rich enough that we'd never notice the loss of money.

As is, the retirement package is already really good, I just think the magic item thing would be pretty harmless, be a great incentive to work towards, and add some wonderful flavor to the whole reward system. Gives them another heirloom/something to sell if times get rough on them.
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I'm not opposed. Something flavorful and denoting loyalty to the empire would be best.

Deliste said:
Does the scaling apply to everything? Eng. 20 year General gets 2*20 plots of land for a total of 40?
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Yup. It's a little meager for a general, I know, but I figure if a general does a particularly good job, we'll be pretty happy to heap more rewards on them.
 
Diomedon said:
I'm not opposed. Something flavorful and denoting loyalty to the empire would be best.



Yup. It's a little meager for a general, I know, but I figure if a general does a particularly good job, we'll be pretty happy to heap more rewards on them.
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Not too worried about underselling it for Generals just getting clarity.

The PR of being a General in a Legion that fights the horrors of man should be more than enough reward for anyone with enough brains to make it to General in the first place.
 
Diomedon said:
they will be granted a small construct (wooden, costs 40 IM) so they are not reduced to begging,
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What's the idea here? They get a construct which work they can rent?

Or a prosthetic construct?

If two lieutenants command half a century each, and the centurion the lieutenants, what do the captains and commanders command?
 
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Diomedon said:
If a soldier is injured or cursed beyond our ability to heal and put them back to work (for example, we don't have enough people who know regeneration), they will be granted a small construct (wooden, costs 40 IM) so they are not reduced to begging, and have a means of working. Ideally, we'd have enough high level healers who don't mind healing people that it wouldn't come up, but we don't have any right this second, and knowing they are taken care of should help maintain morale and loyalty of our troops, even if we can't always regrow everyone's missing bits.
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I think serious cases of missing limbs might be rare enough that Dany and Vee can do it alone.

Right now they are basically keeping SD with its 10k people free from serious diseases, so I suspect it would take a long time before our Legion grows out of their ability to Regenerate.
 
Injuries resulting in amputation as a result of the injury itself is exceedingly rare bordering on nonexistent.

Deliberate amputation of an otherwise ruined extremity should not be necessary with magical healing available.
 
Indeed, most cases of amputation are not due to the limb being mangled beyond recognition and thus directly impacting quality of life when it's a case of battlefield triage, it is because the limb has had "the rot set in", I.E it is infected, and beyond the means of mundane healers to recover it.

With magical healing, this is not a concern.
 
Still pays off to have something in place for those cases. The construct is meant as a worker for the former Legionnaire.

The more labor we get on our frontiers, the better we can claim new land.
 
Azel said:
Still pays off to have something in place for those cases. The construct is meant as a worker for the former Legionnaire.

The more labor we get on our frontiers, the better we can claim new land.
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For a moment there i was wondering what frontier you were talking about.
and then i remembered we have the whole dothraki sea to resettle.
 
Azel said:
Still pays off to have something in place for those cases. The construct is meant as a worker for the former Legionnaire.

The more labor we get on our frontiers, the better we can claim new land.
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Wait, a construct for the former soldier?

I thought the idea was a construct arm or leg so they can still work?
A non-magical Clockwork arm would be possible for 50gp, a Mage's Hand for 100, not counting Lya's discount.
 
So now that I am home, I thought I'd work on an outline of some possible directions LC Mormont could take the conversation, and responses.

  • "Since I have forsworn all lands and keeps of mine, and the oaths of service attached to them, I am to act as though you are not a belligerent of the House I have served to the best of my ability in war and peace, including under their banner during war against your House, and mean only to lend aide to the Night's Watch. And yet I am charged with protecting the lands south of the Wall, including the North. So one must think it wise to ask your intentions of coming here... aside from enticing beings out of myth and song to your banner, presumably."
"I mean only to investigate things that plague the North, and, yes, enrich my lands by gaining allies and resources, all of which can be mutually beneficial to the Night's Watch and their mission. How can I call myself King if I do not bear interest in protecting all lands south of the Wall, including the North? But as you have said... here we are at the Wall, to set politics aside is to do our duty, regardless of the entanglements we keep or have kept. And that is what we are both doing."
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  • "And your excursions beyond the Wall include extricating Wildlings, to plague those lands with raiding and rapine?"

"You have seen the way the cold wind is blowing. These are not normal times, North or South, and the ills that plague the world make no distinction between those of mankind born in more civilized climes or the wild and savage frontiers of the world. Indeed, a threat comes from the Far North that makes no distinction besides that of the living, and the dead. And the dead are coming.

"You have to understand... we are too few to manufacture our own enemies, not when we will need all the allies we can get. But these are not fair weather friends to be sought after. I am aware that the future must be looked towards, and allowing savages to ravage our lands in times of plenty to weaken us during times of conflict is not my intent. Those who can bear the laws of men should be settled in the Gift, if you are able and have the cooperation of Lord Stark and the bordering Lords in this matter, though I understand how difficult that would be to arrange.

"Others could be relocated and separated from their clan politics, spread across Essos in communes and cities for eventual resettlement, their cumbersome tendencies diluted over a period of years. But they cannot stay North of the Wall. More than becoming more chattel for the nigh endless army of the dead that will march upon us all, they will work against us if they feel we have left them to hang as one. A distraction we cannot afford, as to be so frivolous with our attentions is folly, especially in this time of rising magic, when their champions will raise themselves up and become our foes rather than friends."
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  • "Men of learning do not grow on trees... that I am aware, though with these troubled times of sorcery, how am I to know for sure? What I do know is I do not have any guarantee that I will see any of these Brothers sent south to your lands to learn the ways of magic again, not as I do with the Citadel, where men hold to their oaths either by binding word or the threat of steel close at hand."

"Laws and steel are kept in plenty in my realm, Lord Commander, but to cut to the heart of the matter, the crux if you will, who else will provide the Night's Watch this opportunity, were they even capable of training mages for a life of service? Who would be so willing to allow them to return to the far distant North where they will languish in service to oaths no one of the South respects? I see the true threat to our world close at hand, waiting there on the horizon, and it chills me to the bone that the chief defenders of this edifice do not have the means to protect themselves, let alone the entire South.

"Moreover, who else has the capability? You need mages to deal with certain matters, as magic means begets magic solutions to magical problems I have found. And I am capable of providing them, drawn from the ranks of this Order, those who have taken their oaths and, by careful selection of yourselves, taken them seriously. In a year I had my first class of mages learned of their most basic weaving, and magic grows with conflict as much as careful study. Fewer places in the world to find it than here. Find the men who know their letters, or the brightest who could adapt quickly. Send them to Sorcerer's Deep. You will have the support you require, not merely the errant whims of distant Kings to beg after."
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So i was thinking about the curse of the Andals, and how potent It was because of how It was used, and i realized...
We dont need a an artifact of the seven.. se can sacrifice the driftwood crown and a bunch of illithids to lay an Epic level weather-related curse upon their entire race.
"As the storms rage above, may their dwellings be battered by the seas, until their fortresses crumble into the abyss, as the rain brings the waters to the surface, may the waters of our world be as dry sand to their skin"
There, no more illithids on the material plane, way too costly for them.
The downside is we need to sacrifice 25 illithids or 7 ulitharids.
 
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das_slash said:
So i was thinking about the curse of the Andals, and how potent It was because of how It was used, and i realized...
We dont need a an artifact of the seven.. se can sacrifice the driftwood crown and a bunch of illithids to lay an Epic level weather-related curse upon their entire race.
"As the storms rage above, may their dwellings be battered by the seas, until their fortresses crumble into the abyss, as the rain brings the waters to the surface, may the waters of our world be as dry sand to their skin"
There, no more illithids on the material plane, way too costly for them.
The downside is we need to sacrifice 25 illithids or 7 ulitharids.
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I am wary about this idea due to law of unintended consequences. Seems like it would disturb currents a lot for one thing.
 
@Diomedon looking at the latest Legion plan I've found, you don't specify what's the make up of the Crossbowmen Company/Century/Squad.

Also, we should probably have two Cavalru Companies of 500 each. Monstrous/flying cavalry will be relegated to elite auxilia.

Also, we should figure out skills for each level/role. City Watch, for example, can do with Intimidate, Spot and Sense Motive. Soldiers only need Profession Soldier, with an even mix of maxed Spot/Listen. Sargeants can do with Knowledge (War) or some Profession-related tactics thing, as well as some points in management.

I'm thinking about favoring Dragonseeds for Standard Bearer positions, making them Dragonfire Imspiration bards with Draconic Auras, and the various field commanders would be Marshal/Fighters.
 
Vote closed.
Adhoc vote count started by iggyfan on Jan 24, 2018 at 9:59 PM, finished with 144110 posts and 19 votes.
  • [X] Thank Lord Commander Mormont, see your party settled, leave Ser Richard with Rhaella, invite the LC and his maester to the Kings Tower as he likely has many questions, and we then have a lot of business to discuss. Might as well make ourselves comfortable.
    -[X] Introduce Soft Strider to the Lord Commander.
    -[X] Ask of news of what they've seen, and use that as a segue into informing them what their true enemy to the north is.
    -[X] Offer support of money, supplies, armor, and weapons to the watch, as well as perhaps recruits, though there are admittedly very few you could send.
    --[X] You'll come to their aid as best you are able in case of a concerted assault, but the wall wont protect anyone if the watchers on the wall wither on the vine before then.
    --[X] Ask for a list of what is most pressing, and what sorts of arms/armor would be most useful to them, and bring up their enemy's weakness to dragonglass and dragonsteel. The former we could supply much of.
    -[X] Their enemy can make warriors of corpses, so you will be doing your best to remove the free folk to Essos, both to remove them from the future ranks of the true enemy to the north, and to not ask those who have suffered their raids for generations to now live in peace aside the self-same raiders.
    -[X] Some of your companions can use magic to heal, both injuries and disease, though regrowing lost limbs is not so easy. Offer to do what you can who any who have need of it and are willing.
    -[X] Offer to use magic to copy their oldest and most valuable texts into new books, in exchange for Maester Aemon spending more time searching for lore or records of the others, you should be able to manage a few in the time you have.
    --[X] If he'd permit you to make additional copies for yourself, you'd probably find time to replace his entire library.
    --[X] The map you had been given at Eastwatch has been improved while you were north of the wall, offer to make some copies (via dragonpen once you've regained your privacy, minus the information we wish to leave out).
    -[X] If they are unaccompanied, offer attuned sand to the Lord Commander and Aemon, so you might communicate with them over long distances without having to rely on Ravens, explaining the benefits and limitations, though you ask that they keep this a secret. If they've brought more brothers with them, you will give both bags of sand to Aemon when you have a moment alone with him to explain their use.
    -[X] Ask if the Lord Commander has any specific questions or requests of you.
    -[X] If there are a handful of brothers who are particularly clever, or have discovered small gifts of magic within themselves, and are trustworthy, you'd be willing to train them in your scholarium, similarly to how a brother might be sent to be trained at the Citadel.
    -[X] Finally, ask if you might be allowed to speak to Maester Aemon alone for a time.
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@das_slash now we need to turn back and bother uncle Brynden for that ritual. But the driftwood crown would make for a really neat artifact if we can subvert it ourselves or through Merling sacrifice.

We can use it against Tiamat too if her champion has a holy symbol and / or gear.

@Diomedon @Azel have you any plans for cavalry or will we depend on westerosi lances joining our cause?

Because DP confirmed Lya is now able to apply templates on humanoids, animals, and perhaps even plants. We could buy the fiercest dothraki stallions and create a supernatural breed of int<2 horses.
 
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Part MDCLVIII: Pledge to the Oathsworn
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    • Pledge to the Oathsworn ​

    Twenty-Third Day of the Twelfth Month 292 AC

    After settling most of the Children of the Forest and your mother in the chambers you had been granted with Ser Richard set to guard them, you ascend to the solar at the highest level of the King's Tower, just below its crenelated crown. Beside you are Dany and Soft Strider, small enough to move comfortably side by side on the narrow stairway.

    The chamber you enter has clearly seen even less use and less hurried cleaning than those below. Cobwebs still hang on the corners, and one of the window shutters creaks alarmingly as it sways in the brisk wind. Again three men greet you: the Lord Commander, a slim dark-haired man with the bearing of a knight, and a man in worn black robes aged and wrinkled though with eyes that are kin to yours and Dany's.

    "Greetings, Maester," you offer with a smile whose warmth says more than your words. "My apologies for calling a meeting here. I did not know how high a roost this was."

    "No matter, your grace," the old man replies, his voice barely more than a whisper. "Tis not much higher than the rookery, and a poor maester I would be if I could not ascend those stairs."

    Before you can speak further the knight draws your attention away with an oddly fervent greeting, not the simple formality of the Lord Commander. You learn that he is Ser Alister Thorne, master-at-arms of the Watch, and from his Crownlander accent little worn by his time in the North you guess he might have been one of the men who served your House in the Usurper's War and then chose the Black over execution.

    Truth be told it feels odd to be the guest of a Westerosi lord and have the air be so free of suspicion and instead bear a hopeful expectation. Once the round of greetings is done, somewhat awkwardly in the case of Soft Strider as she explains once more that her true name cannot be uttered in the name of men, the Singer speaks first, "I bring greetings from my kin few and scattered as we are, and a warning also. You have felt but the first stray gusts of Winter-to-Come. The time for your order to fulfill its most ancient purpose is at hand. The enemy of all life stirs in their frozen barrows."

    "What the fuck's that supposed to mean?" Ser Thorne explodes. From the fear you can hear beneath the anger you suspect he knows the answer, but does not wish to admit it to himself.

    The Lord Commander scowls ferociously, but before he can reprimand his subordinate you interject, "It means that more than sorcery returns to the Lands Beyond the Wall. The Others come, not this year nor the next, but when the coming winter's storms truly rage."

    Your proclamation is met with a moment's utter silence, then the Lord Commander sighs and slams a fist on the desk in front of him. "Never in my life did I more wish I could name an honest man a liar," he admits. "But even if I was such a coward to do so, men are not the only messengers here..."

    "I had feared something akin to this in the long cold nights," Maester Aemon says. "Yet it seemed folly to speak of such suspicions without proof, for fear my brothers might think my wits had gone wandering. In truth I too might have preferred that."

    "Apologies for my outburst, your grace, highness," Ser Thorne grinds out, bowing first to you then to Dany, the latter with some confusion.

    "I've heard worse," she says dryly. Something about her look makes the master-at-arms shift his gaze quickly.

    Lord Commander Mormont meanwhile had been paying little attention to the byplay. "You said we have years, I'm inclined to believe you on that too, if only because it makes the situation the Watch finds itself in dire, not hopeless. What can be done to fight these things?"

    "Fire is your friend against the lesser servitors and the dead. Against the cold masters themselves dragonsteel and dragonglass will serve," you explain.

    "Well I left Longclaw back on Bear Island, so that's not going to be of any help," Mormont jests grimly. "The bloody skagosi dig for dragonstone, but they will want steel in return. Too damn close to giving steel to wildlings that."

    "I could provide dragonglass in large quantities, even weapons worked of it," you offer. "The defense of the Wall is the business of all men and I would do my part. Aid against a concerted attack and supplies such as you need to better guard the bulwark that is meant to guard all living men, these I offer freely."

    "Freely from your hands into our armories perhaps, but it will not be without a price in the south, without questions asked and ill favor gained." The Lord Commander speaks the words with a sort of weary disdain, as a man who would much rather dispense with such games altogether, but too old to think he can ever do so. "I will need a pledge before men and gods that you will not use any deal we might reach to the detriment of the realms I guard."

    You have to struggle to keep to keep the surprise off your face that there is in all of Westeros a keep and a lord who will take your word alone as guarantee. You look to Aemon... Had the old man been whispering kindly words of you into Mormont's ear?

    "I too have a duty to the realms you guard, Lord Commander," you answer. "Though others may deny it to me, some in good faith and others with malice, matters little. At the Wall the lines are clearly drawn: here is the realm of men, its last bastion set down in days of yore. There..." you motion to the northern window, "are the wild lands where horrors older then mankind stir and the dead lie uneasily in their graves. Thus I pledge to work no trickery or unclean dealings into our agreements. While I stand here my eyes will be looking north even as yours are and never southwards."

    The old lord nods once firmly. "That is enough for me. May the gods help you keep your oath, or strike you down if you are false in it."

    Dany comes forward then bearing a map copied from the one Bloodraven scribed with the more esoteric elements missing. "A first token of our agreement, then," she says.

    The Lord Commander glances at the map curiously, his eyes widen. "How did you make this?"

    What do you reply?

    [] Write in

    OOC: This is your chance to reveal something of your connection with the Old Gods, if you want. Or you can just bush the matter aside as quite literally 'a wizard did it.'
     
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