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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Twelve)

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Okay, a couple things.
First, initiating a massage like that is sexually charged. Touching someone "just to massage them," offering "massages," etc has a significant degree of sexual baggage that a lot of other actions don't have.
Second, I find the "she offered himself to him earlier, so it's okay now" part really creepy. You can't just give someone a raincheck like that in a relationship as shallow as Paul and Jade's. If they were in a deep, active relationship right now, it wouldn't be creepy. But they're not, they said "maybe we'll enter into a relationship later" and they need to actually negotiate what that means, at least implicitly, in a reasonably calm setting before Paul goes around touching her like that.
Making assumptions about implicit consent leads to fucked up situations. If there was even one instance of them meeting and agreeing to enter into a relationship (recently, not two months ago with no contact since then), then it would be perfectly fine to surprise Jade like this. I wouldn't even demand Paul got permission or consent or whatever, romantic gestures are a normal part of dating and for weird ninja people "I took care of you normal masseuse and mimicked him with my superpowers" could be a fine romantic gesture, there just needs to be at least a cursory check-in before you go straight to something like this.
 
Regarding the latest post... I kinda find Jade boring, but that's probably because we've seen this before, so it's treading on old ground. Sure, obviously she's MrZoat's type, and in the correct age range, but meh.

It should be noted that this Jade is quite different in life experiences - several months less socializing with the LoA, higher capacity for empathy due to accidental brain modification.... Probably a much worse assassin now, come to think of it. Depending on her capability to compartmentalize.

Coda said:
I'm well aware that it's a weaker argument, but in a world where metaphysical entities are demonstrably real, these are positions that some of those entities may well take.
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In a world where "will" is considered an emotion, no doubt. It's entirely possible that you can distill pure good and evil and put it in a bottle, in some DC universes.

I guess the best summary for your point would really be that denying parts of your existing reality is a good way to get undesirable results.
Which sounds like it should be true.
It's kind of like... how much would a society of immortals appreciate children, presuming they didn't have any special difficulties in having them? Malthusians chose not to have children in order to not overrun the universe. On the other hand, they should probably ease up on that edict - Zamarons clearly have.

For us, it seems to be... sort of instinctive. On the other hand, societies which have less children, with a good chance of survival seem to appreciate them more, while societies with a higher mortality have more children just so that some will survive.... but might not even name them until they've survived for some time.

However, appreciating few children more doesn't seem to be a good survival strategy, as the population of societies who do that is in clear decline.
 
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EnygmaSoul said:
You're right, heterosexual relationships are gross and a total waste of potential. Clearly the obvious solution is to turn Paul into a girl so that a PROPER relationship can ensue:)

Hey, Look at it this way? At least right now the couple gets a 50% approval rating from both of us instead of a 0% from one of us?
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*hiss* I will fight you to the last demon!

Also, to everyone who has been bitching so much that the mods have gotten involved twice...why should he include more romance in a story that really doesn't need it, if THIS is how everyone acts?

Calm the fuck down. Jeez.
 
Maxx Crowley said:
*hiss* I will fight you to the demon!
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But what if the last demon is a lesbian succubus? Pretty sure they'd back me on this :)

Seriously though, I do agree of the available female options, Jade was likely the least inherently INTERESTING, as she's a mundane human with combat training and trust issues when competition included minor deities. Still, I'm not about to try and write Zoat's story for him, nor will I begrudge his author avatar potentially ending up with a character he's clearly a major fan of. Even if she DOES obviously prefer girls ;)
 
SpokenSoftly said:
To bring up an earlier topic (like, yesterday-early, does the thread normally move this fast?)
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Sometimes, but in this case, it helps that the major catalyst wound up with a mod infracting them shortly before Zoat posted a new update with a completely different controversial topic to discuss. I know of no better way to quickly stifle a topic of conversation short of firing a gun at a public gathering. (Not that this is a bad thing in this particular case, mind.)

SpokenSoftly said:
TL;DR Chaoswind was citing things from a draft and didn't know or didn't care that literally none of it actually appeared in the comic.
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Nonetheless, this is good to know.
 
Mr Zoat said:
Unfortunately, Jade being Human makes it unlikely that she has spiracles. All that experience, wasted.
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Anything is possible with a power ring.
Maxx Crowley said:
Also, to everyone who has been bitching so much that the mods have gotten involved twice...why should he include more romance in a story that really doesn't need it, if THIS is how everyone acts?
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I don't think that the bad discussion is directly a result of the romance. The stuff yesterday was simply about someone arguing in extremely bad faith, or from a position of ignorance. No relation to today's romance update. Today's bad discussion was due to someone using a phrase that is inherently inimical to productive discussion. I do think that the arguments saying that what the SI did was somewhat creepy have some merit, but I don't think that similar arguments will necessarily arise whenever romance becomes a prominent theme. If it becomes clear that people can't discuss things nicely when romance shows up, yeah, then it might be time for Zoat to change how much romance is shown, but as of right now I don't think that that is proven.
 
zachol said:
First, initiating a massage like that is sexually charged. Touching someone "just to massage them," offering "massages," etc has a significant degree of sexual baggage that a lot of other actions don't have.
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My mother has chronic muscle pain, when she gets me to loosen those muscles up is that somehow sexually charged? No? Then massages don't have inherent sexual connotation.
 
Senevri said:
I guess the best summary for your point would really be that denying parts of your existing reality is a good way to get undesirable results.
Which sounds like it should be true.
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Yeah, that's a pretty good way to summarize it.

Senevri said:
For us, it seems to be... sort of instinctive. On the other hand, societies which have less children, with a good chance of survival seem to appreciate them more, while societies with a higher mortality have more children just so that some will survive.... but might not even name them until they've survived for some time.
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This is known as r-selection.

Senevri said:
However, appreciating few children more doesn't seem to be a good survival strategy, as the population of societies who do that is in clear decline.
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This is known as K-selection and it works a lot better than you think. The population of the United States is still growing despite a societal shift towards smaller families.
 
Avernus said:
Besides what Mr Zoat said about her being in a different place mentally he didn't; the Justice League did, along with a lot of law enforcement officers. Also, "rounded up and arrested" is probably going to bother her less than "have them shelled by the US Navy".

But the fact that he never accidentally led her to believe that he'd allied with them like Grayven did with R!Jade was in fact very important. The fact is, as a social species betrayal or even perceived betrayal is a real hot button for most of us. Paragon Jade was never under any illusions that OL and his allies were anything other than opposed to the Shadows; she might not have been happy about it, but she didn't have any reason to consider anything that OL or the Justice League did against the Shadows some kind of betrayal. And she got the news while about as calm as person in prison is likely to get, and was therefore more likely to be rational about it.

R!Jade on the other hand at a moment of extreme stress and borderline panic was suddenly "betrayed" by Grayven; he neither intended it that way nor realized she'd see it that way, but she did. And so she reacted much, much worse.
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Grayven big mistake was not being more upfront about him going to betray the Shadows and the Light with her.

Then there is the fact she thought she had betrayed her.

And then he was mindraped by Darkseid.

So yeah... it was a clusterfuck.

But as this scene shows, Paul is an idiot.

Jade could have taken this the wrong way even if she didn't get a new Boyfriend and that would have just ended the relationship.

Despite his slip up with Jade because he had thought it was quite evident that he was gonna betray the Light and didn't even think to inform her beforehand, Grayven is better at dealing with people and women.

I mean, Batman probably is more friendly with Grayven than Batman is with Paul.

And Batman is aware Grayven was mindraped by Darkseid, so while he will never fully trust him, he has more sympathy to him that he would have otherwise.

It was his plan, his idea to get Grayven in the Light. If Grayven went and contacted the US government to make sure getting rid of them was legal, well isn't this JLA very dependent on the UN?

Also the destruction of the Light in Renegade is at least in half of the League eyes, part of a plan Batman and Grayven did together.

Even Clark probably thinks that Batman is the main responsible person about that, even if he is aware about Batman not liking to kill.

Heck remember the whole Orpheous fiasco in the Batman comics? Grayven probably does. So that's why he didn't fully trust the bat.

I mean the whole World Of Adults/ World Of Children split here caused millions of deaths. So Diana probably approves even if she might not admit it.

I mean Grayven went his way to make everything as legal as possible.

I honestly don't see how Paragon is the "better" timeline lately.

Oh El is becoming more and more inhuman and he is still somewhat of an idiot with women.

Not to mention Paragon has yet to be honest about his real age.

Sure Oh El got the girl but the stupid way he went about it in this chapter shows that enlightenment does not equal knowing how to deal with people.

I mean would the Oh El at the start of the story be stupid enough to teleport into the Batcave?

Oh and in Renegade Talia "Messed in the Head" did not marry Batman. But that's just personal preference.
Karnax626 said:
Have to say that spaceship does look pretty flashy.
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Flash Gordon called, he wants his spaceship back.

ThrawnCA said:
Patents only last twenty years. Even if that happened, it might be clear now.
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Tell that to Disney.
 
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Sebazu said:
Mr Zoat It's been 9 months since Paul made those Amazons pregnant, right?
So when are the babies due?
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Iola and Tekla's daughter has already been born. Others are due within the month.
EnygmaSoul said:
Still, I'm not about to try and write Zoat's story for him, nor will I begrudge his author avatar potentially ending up with a character he's clearly a major fan of. Even if she DOES obviously prefer girls ;)
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I'm actually... Not much of a fan. But people don't usually do things because they think observers will find them most interesting. It's simply that I suspect that the SI would find her more attractive than many other options.
 
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Trunko said:
What can I say? I'm happy that Zoat finally got a serious relationship. Even more with a character i ship him with.

I'm only a bit sad because, If Paul and Jade relationship continues, there will be no place for Roy in her heart. This means no Lian Harper.

:cry::cry::cry: Lian is my favourite cutest DC character of all times. Too bad she's no more in the comics
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Liam is alive and well as of Convergence.
 
stsword said:
Liam is alive and well as of Convergence.
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I believed she was erased from the existence.

So... she's actually alive again? :eek::eek::eek::eek: Really?

Mr Zoat said:
At some point, I'm going to have Jade suggest that for a baby's name and then have the SI respond 'yeah, okay, but what about for a girl?'
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Wait. Zoat, are you telling me you and Jade are planning to have kids together?

Dammit, if Lian still born, as yours daughter instead of Roy's....
 
Trunko said:
Dammit, if Lian still born, as yours daughter instead of Roy's....
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Assuming that the two of them stay together, it's a possibility. I assume that Jade picked the name in the original timeline, and therefore is likely to suggest it again. Obviously the child would be a different individual.
 
Trunko said:
I believed she was erased from the existence.

So... she's actually alive again? :eek::eek::eek::eek: Really?
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Yep, in the teen titans city (Brainiac collected cities from multiple timelines), Roy found himself reunited with his no longer dead daughter Lian.

So his storyline was that he wasn't going to let his daughter die again come Hell or Highwater.

So when New Earth Superman and Hallalax were sent back in time to help curbstomp the Anti monitor, somewhere in the again infinite DC multiverse is a Roy who got a second chance to be a single father thanks to Brainiac of all people.

So Brainiac's actions allowed Lian to live again, Lois and Clark to have a son, and saving every universe destroyed in Crisis.

Pretty optimistic for a miniseries that was basically Hunger Games with superheroes.
 
Mr Zoat said:
Nope.
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Well not everyone is an historian or a Rome II player so I guess he can be excused not knowing it was a Latin title.

This being said, it proves my point of the title being kind of obscure for normal people. Even if it's an official Green Lantern Corps title, sometimes I feel people around Paul probably comments about needing an encyclopedia to follow the conversation, even if they don't react much in the story's narration.
 
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