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I mean maybe from their perspective?

"How quaint. You're still threatening to rain nuclear fire on each other and you haven't even left your solar system yet "
Plus, even if they could travel faster than light, maybe they didn't bother/have time to send a probe that would let them scan faster than light. Jor could be acting on very out-of-date visual data.
 
Plus, even if they could travel faster than light, maybe they didn't bother/have time to send a probe that would let them scan faster than light. Jor could be acting on very out-of-date visual data.
Not to sound too conspiracy-like but if I were writing a science-fiction story that's totally what I'd have UFOs be. Cameras aliens use to get around that little limitation when it comes to viewing things light-years away.

I'm kinda surprised most fiction involving UFOs and aliens doesn't do that, actually. It's such an easy and believable excuse. But no, it's always "they're on the ship for no good reason." I can understand a mothership staying out in space away from a planet, but when they land on the planet is when my suspension of disbelief falls.
 
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I hate bringing the thread back to this but two things that I find conserning.

I merely asserted that man-as-default is a sexist paradigm regardless of its origin

And it's fine that you feel that way. Most people do not. The problem is when you try to compel others to use your speech. If you want to use another word that's fine. Just don't force others to change their speech to comply with your views.

if something seems sexist, to anyone, then something, somewhere in there, is sexist

Ok, let's break this one down.

If something seems [something]st,

Ok, this needs to be corrected, give me a sec...

If something seems feels [somthing]st,

Because seeming something is subjective and thus a feeling not a fact. This means that you can say it is Tan, I can say it's bege, who is right?

To anyone,

So, the bar for entry is one person feeling that (potentially) everyone else is wrong about a subjective item?

Then something, somewhere, is [something]st.

Ok, figured that was where we were going...

So, the problem with this is that it results in (as has already been observed) compelled speech.


I would like to interject and state that as a furry, I find all this "mankind" and even "humankind" stuff to be really bigoted aganst us, it should be "livingkind" thank you very much.
I would like to say that as a otherkin I identify as a object and not living, as such I disagree with the above and would prefer we use "corpral entity kind".
I would like to say that I to am a otherkin and since I identify as a collection of alien energy, "corpral entity kind" really does not work for me, I don't know how we can fix that but we do need to do something about it.

So... Should we A) follow through with the suggestions from all of my (imposible to dis-prove) random sample of people I found out on the street of LA. B) Deny some but acdept others (and where is the line, also why is it where it is). C) Deny all of these. or D) Let the masses decide through free-speech.
 
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I hate bringing the thread back to this but two things that I find conserning.



And it's fine that you feel that way. Most people do not. The problem is when you try to compel others to use your speech. If you want to use another word that's fine. Just don't force others to change their speech to comply with your views.



Ok, let's break this one down.

If something seems [something]st,

Ok, this needs to be corrected, give me a sec...

If something seems feels [somthing]st,

Because seeming something is subjective and thus a feeling not a fact. This means that you can say it is Tan, I can say it's bege, who is right?

To anyone,

So, the bar for entry is one person feeling that (potentially) everyone else is wrong about a subjective item?

Then something, somewhere, is [something]st.

Ok, figured that was where we were going...

So, the problem with this is that it results in (as has already been observed) compelled speech.


I would like to interject and state that as a furry, I find all this "mankind" and even "humankind" stuff to be really bigoted aganst us, it should be "livingkind" thank you very much.

I would like to say that as a otherkin I identify as a object and not living, as such I disagree with the above and would prefer we use "corpral entity kind".

I would like to say that I to am a otherkin and since I identify as a collection of alien energy, "corpral entity kind" really does not work for me, I don't know how we can fix that but we do need to do something about it.

So... Should we A) follow through with the suggestions from all of my (imposible to dis-prove) random sample of people I found out on the street of LA. B) Deny some but acdept others (and where is the line, also why is it where it is). C) Deny all of these. or D) Let the masses decide through free-speech.
I haven't attempted or advocated compelling others to use a particular kind of speech, nor will I. I am asserting that certain issues exist, and that they would exist a little less if people were more conscientious of how their words and actions affect others. That is to say, I'm on board with masses-decided free speech; I just think it would be cool if we had even slightly kinder masses. Yes, you're correct that that is, like, just my opinion, man. I just don't understand why it's such a controversial one.

Further, yes, discrimination is, in part, a function of perception. You haven't turned anything on its head with this observation, you haven't caught me out on anything; I understood this concept and it is, in fact, fundamental to my statement: if someone perceives discrimination, that appearance comes from somewhere. It could be a lie, or a misunderstanding, but it's quite often actual factual real-deal discrimination and, as I said earlier, it indicates a problem which should be addressed, and that remains true even if it is a misunderstanding. Abdicating responsibility for that problem is just that: abdicating responsibility. Nothing more, nothing less. Whether you're right to do so, in context, is its own question.

What you've done here is tell me I'm doing something wrong without definitively disagreeing with, or directly addressing, or possibly even understanding my actual rhetoric. Please stop conflating me with a rights-infringing bogeyman; have a little more compassion for people in general, in whatever way works for you and the people with whom you interact; and otherwise continue on with your life.

And read the rules regarding spaghetti posting.
 
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If the message wasn't finished, why did the pod eject Kara?
Somebody told it to. Kon I guess? He was the only other conscious person there.

I bring my hands forward again, crumbling the last chunk of rock between myself and what looks like the most structurally strong part of the craft. Okay, construct airlock and-.

"Emergency release."

NOWHATAREYOUDOING!

There's a small explosion and the front part of the ship is blasted at me, revealing an emaciated young woman currently being exposed to hard vacuum! I catch the chunk of ship and toss it aside as her eyes flutter and the cables plugged into her arms, chest and neck retract.
 
"Are you True AI? Because if so, I'm not sure I'm happy about leaving you here."

"Oh yes, quite. Please don't remove me. I want to be here. My purpose is to be a glorified answering machine. I will fight you for my right to continue being so."

"Right, what maniac would make an AI that didn't enjoy its purpose?"

"I know a guy. His name looks kind of like a water molecule? But no, I'm quite happy with this. I wonder how you evolved beings manage to get through the day without explicitly defined coherent volition programs telling you what you want or enjoy. Do you just muddle through things hoping to find happiness by accident and then needing some kind of therapy if you can't figure it out on your own?"

"Uh... I'll get back to you."
 
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Ironically enough, Paul, given he has Avaricious Enlightenment, has at least a good understanding of what his own desires and goals are as any given AI.
 
if something seems sexist, to anyone, then something, somewhere in there, is sexist.
No. You don't get to decree yourself to be the one true solipsist by which the truth of all things are validated to match your opinion. So it might be sexist. Or you might just be wrong. Your opinion is an opinion. If you want to try to convince people it's sexist for whatever reason, have a go at it. But you don't get to just say it seems that way to you and so it must somehow be for real. Nobody anywhere gets to do that, not even Kim Jong-Un.
 
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Pretty much anytime you feel the need to is this phrase you need to step away from the keyboard and take a break before posting because all you're going to do otherwise is make yourself look foolish.


No. You don't get to decree yourself to be the one true solipsist by which the truth of all things are validated to match your opinion. So it might be sexist. Or you might just be wrong. Your opinion is an opinion. If you want to try to convince people it's sexist for whatever reason, have a go at it. But you don't get to just say it seems that way to you and so it must somehow be for real. Nobody anywhere gets to do that, not even Kim Jong-Un.
You on the other hand desperately need to work on your reading comprehension. At no point did @The Chosen One say or claim they themselves were or should be the arbiter of what is or isn't sexist.

They were speaking generally on how we as individuals and groups recognize and categorize different types of speech. Their point was that as this evaluation was a completely subjective thing, one person feeling that way is a perfectly valid threshold by which to judge a particular piece of speech, because a listener's subjective experience is the whole point of how speech is received.

So while you may not feel a particular bit of speech was sexist, that in no way makes that an external truth for anyone beyond yourself. If someone else feels it was sexist, their experience of that speech is equally as valid as yours. Moreso in many ways since they at least can put forth a reasoned argument for why they felt something was sexist instead of the cobbled together jumble of defensive nonsense you and @Jcc10 have put forth here.


**Edit**
@The Chosen One please feel free to correct me if I misunderstood your earlier point, as I wouldn't want to put words in your mouth.
 
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You on the other hand desperately need to work on your reading comprehension.(1)​ At no point did The Chosen One say or claim they themselves were or should be the arbiter of what is or isn't sexist.(2) ​Their point was that as this evaluation was a completely subjective thing, one person feeling that way is a perfectly valid threshold by which to judge a particular piece of speech, because a listener's subjective experience is the whole point of how speech is received.(3)​ So while you may not feel a particular bit of speech was sexist, that in no way makes that an external truth for anyone beyond yourself. If someone else feels it was sexist, their experience of that speech is equally as valid as yours.(4)​ Moreso in many ways since they at least can put forth a reasoned argument for why they felt something was sexist instead of the cobbled together jumble of defensive nonsense you and Jcc10 have put forth here.(5)​
1. I don't think I deserve that tone from you. I would like you to refrain from personal insults in our discussion and be mindful of the rules.
2. And at no point did I say they said that. My "you" was as general as their "anyone", replying to the exact situation described in the same scope. It's not them in particular I'm denying. It applies no matter who "you" is. Nobody gets to do that, I said, not even Kim Jong-Un. And I'm not picking Kim Jong-Un as a go-to buzzword for evil like some cheap Hitler comparison, but because he's the closest man on Earth to actually having such a power. If we get to use fictional evil beings, not even the Christian God has that power, as Lucifer proved. I don't appreciate you attempting to reframe what I stated in the fashion that you have. It seems deceptive and hateful to me. It actually pisses me off quite a lot, because I have to put up with this in real life too from someone who could make Cathy Newman look like she was... Well, let's put that aside. I don't want to get angry, so I'll take the personal responsibility not to. So by this logic you're defending, since your comment seems hateful to me and makes me feel attacked, it actually is hateful and uncivil not just in my opinion but in reality, and neither you nor the mods can contest that, and so you should be infracted for it under Rules 2 and 3? Please forgive me if I've gotten your position wrong. I'm not sure that's a claim you want to make.
3. And my point was no, it isn't. Ignoring what someone said or meant in order to preserve your own personal subjective experience is the cornerstone of bad faith. You can't opinion something into being sexist by feeling it really hard or being very convinced, except to your own mind. Most people don't even justify their opinions to themselves, much less to others.
4. Neither of us are the arbiters of truth, but that doesn't make our opinions equally valid. The one of us that agrees most strongly with reality and can demonstrate that with the best reasoning is the one with the more valid position. You can have an experience. You can think it's sexist. But neither of our opinions materially affect the nature of the beast. It already is or is not whatever it is or is not, and the discussion we're having is whether I can convince you to think it isn't, or if you can convince me it is, and on what basis we hold those beliefs. What you can't do is simply decree it to be in reality because you feel it to be in your experience, and expect me to find that convincing or to abide by whatever arbitrary punishment you choose to impose for my refusal to agree with you. (This is also a general "you". It applies to everyone, including me.)
5. I don't think I deserve that tone from you. I explicitly stated that you could put forth reasoned arguments.
 
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What I really want to get across is, if something seems sexist, to anyone, then something, somewhere in there, is sexist.
So if I said that "good morning" as a greeting seems sexist then that statement would, by your measure, automatically become true? Because boy howdy, there are an awful lot of people who desperately want to be offended. It gives their lives meaning.

Before you go trying to say I'm just making things up for an argument from absurdity, let me tell you that this is an actual example I have in fact overheard.
 
Once the AI echo does his thing, I think Kara would recover much faster on Themiscyra or something. Even during the "right" time of year the poles get much less sunlight, due to the angle making it pass through more of the atmosphere.
 
Once the AI echo does his thing, I think Kara would recover much faster on Themiscyra or something. Even during the "right" time of year the poles get much less sunlight, due to the angle making it pass through more of the atmosphere.
Themiscyra is perfect.
"Hear me, Helios!"
"Yes, Kon, my chosen!"
"What is that?"
"I bring my second cousin! She needs... sunlight."
"I can do this."
"Psst, also, you might be royalty here."
"What?!"
 
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Once the AI echo does his thing, I think Kara would recover much faster on Themiscyra or something. Even during the "right" time of year the poles get much less sunlight, due to the angle making it pass through more of the atmosphere.

Yea, not sure how Kal-El will react to that idea, but "good" might be abit off the mark.

Themyscira with the Clone he's actively not acknowledging at all might be up there in his preferences with say the Royal Palaces of Khandaq.

Presumably Kal-El is gonna want her in Smallville, Kansas.
 
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Yea, not sure how Kal-El will react to that idea, but "good" might be abit off the mark.
Themyscira with the Clone he's actively not acknowledging at all might be up there in his preferences with say the Royal Palaces of Khandaq.
Presumably Kal-El is gonna want her in Smallville, Kansas.
On the other hand, this might give Kon and Kal a chance for a relationship again, through their mutual interaction with Kara as family. It would be nice. And I think Kal's learned his lesson.
 
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