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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Twelve)

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Coda said:
What he has failed to account for is the possibility that Krypto IS in the pod and has perished ignobly.
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You mean like both Kara and Krypto dead in the pod, just Krypto in the pod and dead, or Kara alive with Krypto dead?

I'm not a master of Krypto Lore in comics so if someone has a way for Krypto to a) exist, b) not be dead, and c) not have to be in the pod as an origin story please inform me.

All good doggos deserve life.

(/Patently ignoring all the other animals (including dogs if they existed on Krypton) that died with Krypton/)
 
King of Frost said:
So about a year's worth of child support?

Actually, is that how child support works? I'm not the most knowledgeable person when it comes to the U.S. court system, but I'm pretty sure the courts couldn't compel someone to back pay, only pay from the date the child support was actually established.
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Nope...

It's a fucked up situation where the child support is granted because of the parental setup in the law, you don't even have to consent to the issue in order to end up footing the bill...

Then there's THIS mess

stsword said:
Did you watch a vastly different YJ than the rest of us?

Conner was provided with adult supervision, a home, education, food, clothing, and a support group of his peers.

All provided by the organization Superman is a part of.

Even assuming you are right here, its a moot point, those obligations were fulfilled.
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That kind of would become a legal nightmare if brought to court considering what the kids were sanctioned to be part of.

Sure, it's a super hero story, but it's still one where any court on the planet would have a freak out over it.

Crimson Doom said:
:Citation Needed:, but if this checks out, then I'll concede the point.
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For the child support stuff, I'd posted it earlier.

For the other, there's the UN resolution on it...which is all that I can find now specifically on it (HERE is a bit on it from the digital commons law stuff).

What I'm remembering was in the semi-panic from back with Hwang Woo-Suk's nuttery during the last Bush Administration which made international news. The general consensus was that, legally, a clone would have the same rights as any other humans, and who the parent is, legally, tends to be who is listed there.
 
Even though I'm not as knowledgeable about comics, nor Young Justice, as most of the people present, and obviously the situation regarding Superman and Superboy is complicated. But it brings to mind two other cases: Logan and Laura (AKA Wolverine and X-23) and
Invincible and his son

In the first case, Laura is indeed a clon, created by, if I remember correctly, what is basically wannabe Weapon-X. And while it may simply be Logan's soft spot for young girls in need of mentorship, he did try to take care and be there for Laura, and if I recall, is regarded as her father in general. There are many differences obviously but I do think there is certain resemblances.

Since people are mentioning so much the rape angle, it reminded as well of the second case:
Where Invincible (Mark Grayson) was indeed raped by Anyssa, another member of their race, in an unbiased and the most non-double standard depiction of a male raped that I have seen. Now Mark wasn't aware of the result of the encounter until after a few years in-universe and, understandably, was conflicted about it. Even still, he eventually acknowledged the kid as his, specially when the poor child was in a depression induced rampage.

Now, I'm not in favor or against Superman's position, it is his choice after all. But I do think he could have handled and/or expressed his choice a bit better. Yes, Superboy got support and care for his basic needs, but is it really clarified that that had any input from Superman? Like, the League decided the sidekicks could have Mount Justice and could go on covert missions because Superboy said, and I quote: "Why let them tell us what to do? It's simple. Get on board or get out of the way."

But where is clarified that he specifically said something of the likes of "I think the clone should be taken care of"? And if he didn't want anything to do with Superboy, he could have come out and say it, at least to his peers if not to Superboy: "I don't want to have a relationship with the clone, I feel hurt for his existence" or something like that, I don't know.
I mean, aren't other members of the League friends of him, can't he be honest and express how deeply conflicted he feels?

At this point is then a failure of the writing to express Superman is position so that people can understand his point of view, that's why he ends up depicted badly by the situation, instead of another victim. And, after all, most people always expect better of Superman I think, even his detractors or not fans.
 
ThrawnCA said:
to breathe
taken it to
Its relative velocity
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Thank you, corrected.
Maxx Crowley said:
Thing is, Kal is not, and never was, Kon's Father in any shape or form, and people trying to foist that idea upon him, only seemed to make him reject it ever stronger. Kon is, as loveable as he is, basically a mutant form of Kal.
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Or a mutant form of Luthor.
Evil M. Lurker said:
Oh hey @Mr Zoat , does Superman 16 have Kelex, Last Robot Butler of Krypton? :D
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No.
Maxx Crowley said:
It had something to do with....oh what was the name. H'El? That and...bringing back Krypton.
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[Sniff sniff]

Sorry, for a moment there I thought I caught the stench of Nu52. IT WAS PROBABLY NOTHING.
Well he IS a SUPER-man. It's kind of the point? Besides, he's better than a saint. Where do they generally come from? Oh yeah, that one really corrupt church....yeah. With all the history of murder...and child rape....yeah better not touch that.
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To be completely fair about this, paedophiles come from all walks of life. The problem wasn't that some priests were paedophiles; that was inevitable. The problem was that the church covered it up.
Norgarth said:
were the last 2 words supposed to run together like that?
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Yes.
ThrawnCA said:
"What brings the two of you here on a school morning?"

"Typos, mate."

"Alright, but I charge by the hour and I expect union rates."
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You wish.
Humans' tension
and ones being caused
GCSEs
Okay, look:
he's only practised
my ability to get us
Remember:
: something important to him
strides purposefully
Next come the cakes and
Extra space
These "They"s refer to opposing groups. For clarity, perhaps the second should be made explicit?
look forward to
So:
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Thank you, corrected.

Huh, that wasn't many.

Oh.
Zig said:
Earth 12 ones don't, though that may well be a side effect of the yellow sun like the rest of their powers.
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Really? You sure?
 
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dhasenan said:
I find it weird that Kryptonians hate clones in this, when in Smallville the House of El specialized in cloning (at least according to the wiki).
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I can't answer either way because I literally don't know. DC's continuity is such a mess (that they seem to allow to happen without the slightest care) that I couldn't tell you what the facts are supposed to be. Too many Elseworlds, too many retellings, and too little editorial attention.

I remember reading one time from someone in DC that after a survey they found out that the most famous stories that more general audiences can name or even know, are all technically non-canon. I find that hilarious.
 
dhasenan said:
I find it weird that Kryptonians hate clones in this, when in Smallville the House of El specialized in cloning (at least according to the wiki).
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Smallville's Krypton is quite a different kettle of fish.

AI cave paintings, kryptonian "stones" being used as a power up by witches, making Bizarros, and Kryptonians going to Earth to impregnate human women for centuries, all quite nonstandard.
 
Mr Zoat said:
Or a mutant form of Luthor.
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True I suppose. I really wasn't looking at it that way because to be honest? What, other then balding, could he have inherited from Lex?

Mr Zoat said:
Sorry, for a moment there I thought I caught the stench of Nu52. IT WAS PROBABLY NOTHING.
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Is that what it was? I never read it. I did kind of like the name H'El. But beyond that I didn't read it. Again, evil kryptonian has been done to death. He was kinda cute though.

Mr Zoat said:
To be completely fair about this, paedophiles come from all walks of life. The problem wasn't that some priests were paedophiles; that was inevitable. The problem was that the church covered it up.
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Of course. I only brought up that organization because it is the only one I know that uses "saints"

Crimson Doom said:
Oh my gosh, are you serious? Hahahahahaha that's perfect.
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Well think about how many Elseworlds stories the general audience will bring up. Superman: Red son, anything from Miller time, ect ect.

Mr Zoat said:
But unsurprising.
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It's DC's own fault.
 
Mr Zoat said:
Really? You sure?
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I believe it's the episode of Superman Animated where Clark Kent is "killed" by a bomb while investigating some story. He mentions that he does not have to eat but "old habits die hard" and orders a pizza which is what gets him into the predicament. Trying to find a clip.

Edit: Yup, in the first few minutes of The Late Mr. Kent (S2E22)
 
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Lord Ernest said:
Since people are mentioning so much the rape angle, it reminded as well of the second case:
Where Invincible (Mark Grayson) was indeed raped by Anyssa, another member of their race, in an unbiased and the most non-double standard depiction of a male raped that I have seen. Now Mark wasn't aware of the result of the encounter until after a few years in-universe and, understandably, was conflicted about it. Even still, he eventually acknowledged the kid as his, specially when the poor child was in a depression induced rampage.
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Well to start with. Supes also comes around as well.

It takes about six months for him to do so though.

Like, the League decided the sidekicks could have Mount Justice and could go on covert missions because Superboy said, and I quote: "Why let them tell us what to do? It's simple. Get on board or get out of the way."
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Not actually why. They all made it clear they were going to keep doing their own thing and were not at all pleased with the previous deal the league had planned for them.

That quote was actually more about giving the others the strength to stand up to their mentors now that they were face to face.

And if he didn't want anything to do with Superboy, he could have come out and say it, at least to his peers if not to Superboy: "I don't want to have a relationship with the clone, I feel hurt for his existence" or something like that, I don't know.
I mean, aren't other members of the League friends of him, can't he be honest and express how deeply conflicted he feels?
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He pretty much does. Most of the problems come from Batman and the others trying to force the issue.

Which to be fair to them, they are the ones spending time with Superboy. So they would have a strong opinion on the situation

At this point is then a failure of the writing to express Superman is position so that people can understand his point of view, that's why he ends up depicted badly by the situation, instead of another victim. And, after all, most people always expect better of Superman I think, even his detractors or not fans.
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Meh, personally I find the way he handled it one of the best examples of superman.

It changes him from the boring 'paragon of morality who can do no wrong' to a much more interesting 'Good man, but he can sometimes stumble like everyone else'.
 
APL 123AZ said:
Meh, personally I find the way he handled it one of the best examples of superman.

It changes him from the boring 'paragon of morality who can do no wrong' to a much more interesting 'Good man, but he can sometimes stumble like everyone else'.
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Frankly, if they wanted to play that angle, they should have done it in a show where Superman was actually present for more than a few seconds at a time.
 
Crimson Doom said:
Frankly, if they wanted to play that angle, they should have done it in a show where Superman was actually present for more than a few seconds at a time.
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Well that's what fanfiction is for. A young justice fanfic where the protagonist joins the Justice League and follows their adventures would be interesting.
 
Queshire said:
Well that's what fanfiction is for. A young justice fanfic where the protagonist joins the Justice League and follows their adventures would be interesting.
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...you know what, I might just do that. Gotta see how well it fits with my current SI setup, but I might be able to make something like that work.
 
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Converse (part 9)
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    • 14th September
    21:07 GMT

    Okay…

    Possible living Kryptonian encased in a lump of silicon, iron and kryptonite. Oh, and thorium and curium and a few other things as well because that kryptonite had to come from somewhere and not all of the radioactive materials in Krypton were transmuted when it exploded. Thirty years' kryptonite exposure would turn a Human into a dead irradiated lump of cancer. If anyone in there has been exposed, they're dead. But. If the craft had some kind of shielding and a stasis or high-end suspended animation unit (which I think I remember the Power Girl version having) and everything stayed working (which is well within the capacities of Kryptonian technology) then she could still be alive.

    Heat-based cutting is out, because that would make the Kryptonite explode and trigger a radiation pulse. Sonics aren't a good idea, because those could pass through the mass and damage the craft that is hopefully within. Giant drill construct and hope Kon never mentions it to Guy? No, those still cause vibrations. X-ionised cutting tool?

    I turn up my empathic vision, but if there's anyone alive in there then they're not experiencing enough emotion to register. Soo, cutting tool that could go right through whatever ship they're in isn't such a great idea. This rock is baked with enough regular and exotic radiation that I wouldn't want to bet my scans are completely accurate…

    I reach my hands forward and replace my armour's gauntlets with crumbler gauntlets. Still, not a great option, but these can be set to crumble particular materials. Whatever the ship is made of, it won't be made of kryptonite. I know crumbled kryptonite doesn't explode… For whatever reason.

    "Kon, I'm going to crumble the green kryptonite and the rock. If you see anything that doesn't look like rock, tell me at once."

    "Sure."

    Right. Green kryptonite fir-. Wait, didn't this rock drop a tonne of non-green kryptonite on Earth in the comic? "And you should probably back off and increase power to your environmental shield."

    "Why? If you crumble it, there'll be less radiation."

    "Because we know that there are other kryptonite isomers and I don't know exactly how they'd react with an environmental shield designed to keep out the green stuff."

    Ah… I think gold removed Kryptonian abilities. Red caused increased self-absorption in New Adventures and impulsiveness in Smallville and.. I think random mutations in the older comics? Black… Turns Kryptonians evil? That silver enchanted variety that made Superman behave like a child in Superman/Batman. And pink…

    That… Probably doesn't… Actually…

    Well, if it does, I'm sure Kon can control himself until the effect wears off. I jab my hands forward, chunks of kryptonite vanishing as I turn the crumble field up to a five metre radius. Just kryptonite. Vaguely draconic construct arms grab chunks of rock suddenly no longer connected to the main mass and toss them aside. I move forward into the available space and press my hands against the mass again. No, taking too long. Turn the crumbler field up again. Ten metres.

    "Anything I can do to help?"

    "Sorry, but I don't think so. Do you know if Cadmus has medical facilities for a Kryptonian? I know Star Labs Metropolis-."

    "Wouldn't it be easier to take them to Superman's fortress?"

    Another big lump of rock comes free, but all the big chunks of kryptonite from this part have been crumbled… Switch to silicon. Hands forward again.

    "I don't know. Would it? I don't know what he's got in there."

    "Really?"

    "We're not exactly close."

    "You're not exactly close to Batman. I guess I just figured…"

    "Batman is in charge of the team and the Justice League. And he lives in a city with a high crime rate." Not as bad as it was, by any means. It's not Detroit or anything, not any more. But I certainly had business reasons for scanning there. "Superman's fortress is in the middle of nowhere, and he hardly spends any time there. So even if I did have a reason to speak to himDON'T GO ANYWHERE NEAR THAT!"

    Kon backs off as I grab the shard of newly revealed black crystal in a very thick construct. "Okay, but… What is it?"

    Radiation… Similar but not identical. How the heck does radiation exposure make someone evil? "Black kryptonite, apparently." I subspace it. "We can study it later. Do you know for a fact that Kal-El has medical equipment in the Fortress?"

    "Yeah. He told Mom he was taking some of… Match's tissue samples there."

    "That could just be a lab." I bring my hands forward again. Not… Too far now. "Ring, contact Lantern Stewart."

    "Transmitting now."

    "Power ring detected."

    Automated message, ignore it. And because I'm no longer on the Green Lantern Corps' shit list…

    "What is it, Paul?"

    "    Not on Earth at the moment, are you?"

    "No, Athmoora. Why?"

    "…happy to have his son raised…"

    "Kon and I may, possibly, have found a Kryptonian survivor. They're in a kryptonite-rich asteroid in what I hope is a sealed container. I need to know whether Kal-El's got any sort of medical facilities in his Fortress or not."

    "That's great news. And, yeah, he does. I took him there one time after he fought the Kryptonite Man and needed to get himself patched up."

    "    Thank you. I'll let you know how it goes. Orange Lantern Illustres out."

    "…you well, but my brother speaks…"

    I bring my hands forward again, crumbling the last chunk of rock between myself and what looks like the most structurally strong part of the craft. Okay, construct airlock and-.

    "Emergency release."

    NOWHATAREYOUDOING!

    There's a small explosion and the front part of the ship is blasted at me, revealing an emaciated young woman currently being exposed to hard vacuum! I catch the chunk of ship and toss it aside as her eyes flutter and the cables plugged into her arms, chest and neck retract.

    "…your care. My daughter-"

    "Is that-?" Kon drifts closer to get a clearer look as I fill the area around her with breathable air. Okay, I'm seeing burns and severe malnutrition, but nothing that-.

    The light from Helios' blessing shines on her. She blinks, her unfocused eyes turning red.

    Oh fuck.

    Beams of red light flash out and bore through the inside of the asteroid!
     
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    • Mr Zoat said:
    I bring my hands forward again, crumbling the last chunk of rock between myself and what looks like the most structurally strong part of the craft. Okay, construct airlock and-.

    "Emergency release."

    NOWHATAREYOU DOING!

    There's a small explosion and the front part of the ship is blasted at me, revealing an emaciated young woman currently being exposed to hard vacuum!
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    Who the heck designed this thing and failed basic design sanity? Someone skipped a safety check at least.
     
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