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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Twelve)

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Norgarth said:
were the last 2 words supposed to run together like that?


Might as in 'mighty', aka strong/power

so 'all strength' or 'all power'
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I think that the words running together is supposed to express sudden alarm, especially with that yellow color.

And I believe @E.M. Lurker was referring to a character named All Might, and pointing out the similarity between the name and the translated name for that sport.
 
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Avernus said:
I think that the words running together is supposed to express sudden alarm, especially with that yellow color.

And I believe @E.M. Lurker was referring to a character named All Might, and pointing out the similarity between the name and the translated name for that sport.
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Yep. I'm suddenly wondering if the author of My Hero Academia did that on purpose.

 
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So in regards to Superman and Kon, I would call Kon an example of "Unauthorized Engineered Offspring". Inexplicably there's no trope page for it, but basically it is exactly what it says (I would also group in clones). Regarding Superman proper, it certainly is pretty unnerving having a child/sibling made without permission. Wasn't something he was at all expecting, and combined with being powerful himself... Honestly I can't fault his difficulties dealing with Kon.
 
Regarding the Superman discussion, I remember reading a SI that I can inexplicably no longer find where the SI tears a new one off of Superman, not because he's refusing to accept Superboy as his son, but because he's not even treating him like a human being. I don't expect Superman to adopt the guy; once again, @Maxx Crowley and I agree on the fact that he is under no obligation to do so. But if he could treat Superboy with the same level of respect he gives to the rest of the Team, I imagine people wouldn't be nearly so ticked off at him. Heck, just a "I know you want more from me, but I just can't give that to you now. I'm sorry" would work wonders.

(No, but seriously, if anyone can find that fic, lemme know.)
 
Crimson Doom said:
not because he's refusing to accept Superboy as his son, but because he's not even treating him like a human being.
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Typical fanon stupidity.

At no point does Supes ever go that far. He acknowledges Superboy several times, its just that he's also extremely uncomfortable around him and runs off at the first opportunity.

Shit, the first thing he even says to the kid is a reassurance that they'll take care of the him.
 
APL 123AZ said:
Typical fanon stupidity.

At no point does Supes ever go that far. He acknowledges Superboy several times, its just that he's also extremely uncomfortable around him and runs off at the first opportunity.

Shit, the first thing he even says to the kid is a reassurance that they'll take care of the him.
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Yyyyeah, that's not treating him like a human, that's treating him like an annoyance, beyond that last bit. Treating him like a human would entail actually talking to the kid about each other's expectations and hashing out what their relationship even is. Instead, Supes just kinda ignores him most of the time and rejects him the rest of it, with maybe 1% actual human kindness.
 
Crimson Doom said:
Regarding the Superman discussion, I remember reading a SI that I can inexplicably no longer find where the SI tears a new one off of Superman, not because he's refusing to accept Superboy as his son, but because he's not even treating him like a human being. I don't expect Superman to adopt the guy; once again, @Maxx Crowley and I agree on the fact that he is under no obligation to do so. But if he could treat Superboy with the same level of respect he gives to the rest of the Team, I imagine people wouldn't be nearly so ticked off at him. Heck, just a "I know you want more from me, but I just can't give that to you now. I'm sorry" would work wonders.

(No, but seriously, if anyone can find that fic, lemme know.)
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I Want to See You Smile has that sort of conversation I think, though it's been a while.
 
Crimson Doom said:
Yyyyeah, that's not treating him like a human, that's treating him like an annoyance, beyond that last bit. Treating him like a human would entail actually talking to the kid about each other's expectations and hashing out what their relationship even is. Instead, Supes just kinda ignores him most of the time and rejects him the rest of it, with maybe 1% actual human kindness.
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Not every awkward or even awful interpersonal interaction is the direct fault of someone involved. At no point are we guaranteed ideal relationships. Superman did not meet Superboy's expectations for their interaction (or, clearly, some of ours) but he was under no obligation to do so in the first place. They had no preexisting relationship. His actions would be reprehensible if they were performed by a willing parent, or otherwise broke some promise he made himself.

Sure, there's an argument that he is being selfish, in the sense that he is putting his own needs above someone else's for once in his life. And there's a further argument that that's drastically out of character. Superman saves people, right? But Superboy isn't actually, you know, in danger. He's a kid with mysterious origins, asking for a personal relationship solely on the basis of race. He's hurt, and scared, and surrounded by other heroes Superman trusts. So when Superman decides to leave, and take some time to himself, it's awkward and selfish and betrays Superboy's expectations, but it's not wrong. Superboy's (and our) expectations do not compel him to positive action. If he continues to decide he doesn't even want to talk to the kid, because it's a painful situation for him, too, it's not the choice we'd like to see, but it's his choice to make.

Re: being treated like a human, I've been on Superboy's side of this kind of truncated relationship far more often than Superman's, but I have seen both, and I would argue that it's an exceedingly human experience to learn that someone important to you doesn't have to make you as large a part of their life.

It sucks for Superboy! Batman was right when he said the boy needs a father; that's something he deserves! But it's not something that Superman in particular owes to him. Batman was wrong to insist that Superman must bear that or any responsibility. The only things they have uniquely in common are half of their genetics and an interest in superheroics, and Superman's just not ready to have a sidekick at that point in his life.

Neither of them asked for things to be this way, and compassion on our part should extend to both of them.
 
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I really wonder if this'll be a case of reality ensues in terms of Kara and the reality that everyone and everything she knew died a minute ago to her. I hope Paul handles this with tact...uh..with the sensitivity it needs.

Seriously, Mother, Father, any friends she had, and any relatives. Her home, school, everywhere.

ALSO KRYPTO BETTER HAVE NOT EXISTED OR BE IN THAT POD ZOAT. MY HEART


Arafell said:
Hopefully this Kara is, you know, not elementary school age.
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Zoat said shes half the SI's age. So 15-16 range. Bad Juju.

Why has everyone suddenly forgotten about Jade though? The had Almost!Sex like two days ago.
 
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Cherico said:
you know Paul as girfriends go Kara is a super choice.
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You... realize he already has a girlfriend, right? Jade didn't suddenly stop existing.

Zig said:
I Want to See You Smile has that sort of conversation I think, though it's been a while.
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Definitely wasn't that one; I never could get past the idea of a nonstandard Lantern color.

The Chosen One said:
Not every awkward or even awful interpersonal interaction is the direct fault of someone involved. At no point are we guaranteed ideal relationships. Superman did not meet Superboy's expectations for their interaction (or, clearly, some of ours) but he was under no obligation to do so in the first place. They had no preexisting relationship. His actions would be reprehensible if they were performed by a willing parent, or otherwise broke some promise he made himself.

Sure, there's an argument that he is being selfish, in the sense that he is putting his own needs above someone else's for once in his life. And there's a further argument that that's drastically out of character. Superman saves people, right? But Superboy isn't actually, you know, in danger. He's a kid with mysterious origins, asking for a personal relationship solely on the basis of race. He's hurt, and scared, and surrounded by other heroes Superman trusts. So when Superman decides to leave, and take some time to himself, it's awkward and selfish and betrays Superboy's expectations, but it's not wrong. Superboy's (and our) expectations do not compel him to positive action. If he continues to decide he doesn't even want to talk to the kid, because it's a painful situation for him, too, it's not the choice we'd like to see, but it's his choice to make.

Re: being treated like a human, I've been on Superboy's side of this kind of truncated relationship far more often than Superman's, but I have seen both, and I would argue that it's an exceedingly human experience to learn that someone important to you doesn't have to make you as large a part of their life.

It sucks for Superboy! Batman was right when he said the boy needs a father; that's something he deserves! But it's not something that Superman in particular owes to him. Batman was wrong to insist that Superman must bear that or any responsibility. The only things they have uniquely in common are half of their genetics and an interest in superheroics, and Superman's just not ready to have a sidekick at that point in his life.

Neither of them asked for things to be this way, and compassion on our part should extend to both of them.
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Look, I'm not saying the situation doesn't suck for Superman. It does. Majorly. But if he could at least treat Superboy as being another victim rather than being the problem, I'd be satisfied. This was the point I was trying to make, but I think I fumbled around enough to have confused everyone about what I actually did say. Just... come on, Supes is more communicative with Luthor than he is with Superboy. He should have fixed that sooner than he did.
 
One other thing to point out that even with the circumstances of his, well, birth, legally, Clark is partially responsible for Connor.

Yes, it's messed up in a lot of ways, but there's even cases where a guy is pretty much raped as a teen only to get blindsided years later with paternity issues and forced to pay. The one I'm remembering is one where the mother had the kid and waited until the statute of limitations ran out before popping up to wreck his life.

There's also the cases where sperm donors have been put on the hook for things.

It would be a legal nightmare, but it would still, probably, be something going that way.
 
shotiegun11 said:
The had Almost!Sex like two days ago.
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"Almost" sex? That was definitely sex. That was sex to the point of exhausting Jade.

SotF said:
One other thing to point out that even with the circumstances of his, well, birth, legally, Clark is partially responsible for Connor.

Yes, it's messed up in a lot of ways, but there's even cases where a guy is pretty much raped as a teen only to get blindsided years later with paternity issues and forced to pay. The one I'm remembering is one where the mother had the kid and waited until the statute of limitations ran out before popping up to wreck his life.

There's also the cases where sperm donors have been put on the hook for things.

It would be a legal nightmare, but it would still, probably, be something going that way.
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This I disagree with, because I really doubt those laws apply to unwanted clones.
 
Crimson Doom said:
Look, I'm not saying the situation doesn't suck for Superman. It does. Majorly. But if he could at least treat Superboy as being another victim rather than being the problem, I'd be satisfied. This was the point I was trying to make, but I think I fumbled around enough to have confused everyone about what I actually did say. Just... come on, Supes is more communicative with Luthor than he is with Superboy. He should have fixed that sooner than he did.
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I quoted your post more because it was the most convenient point to enter the conversation, forum-wise, than because I misunderstood your exact position. I didn't intend to misrepresent your opinion, and I guess I didn't emphasize well enough, myself, that I agree Superman made a huge mistake in how he chose to approach the situation. More talking is always better than less talking. But it is not unforgivable, or even unreasonable, I think, depending on specific context. I don't hate the people in my life who have made those mistakes in relation to me, and I wouldn't ask anyone to hate them on my behalf. Ultimately, people in- and out-of-universe (not you :-þ) who make a point of outright blaming Superman for Superboy's situation as a result of mere conscious inaction are literally forgetting who the real villain is.
 
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The Chosen One said:
I quoted your post more because it was the most convenient point to enter the conversation, forum-wise, than because I misunderstood your exact position. I didn't intend to misrepresent your opinion, and I guess I didn't emphasize well enough, myself, that I agree Superman made a huge mistake in how he chose to approach the situation. More talking is always better than less talking. But it is not unforgivable, or even unreasonable, I think, depending on specific context. I don't hate the people in my life who have made those mistakes in relation to me, and I wouldn't ask anyone to hate them on my behalf. Ultimately, people in- and out-of-universe (not you :-þ) who make a point of outright blaming Superman for Superboy's situation as a result of mere conscious inaction are literally forgetting who the real villain is.
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Fair enough, I can't disagree with anything you've just said.
 
Crimson Doom said:
This I disagree with, because I really doubt those laws apply to unwanted clones.
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The legal system doesn't really give that much of a shit about HOW the kid comes about, just that the kid did come about.

Theoretically, clones wouldn't be treated as any different than anyone else and most issues would be covered by the sperm donor and IVF stuff...not to mention that there are already laws in place about clones due to some idiots planning on making clones in real life. Most of those are pretty much ones that point to them being treated the same as any other.

Hell, there's already been lawsuits about the people cloning their dead pets as well.
 
SotF said:
The legal system doesn't really give that much of a shit about HOW the kid comes about, just that the kid did come about.

Theoretically, clones wouldn't be treated as any different than anyone else and most issues would be covered by the sperm donor and IVF stuff...not to mention that there are already laws in place about clones due to some idiots planning on making clones in real life. Most of those are pretty much ones that point to them being treated the same as any other.

Hell, there's already been lawsuits about the people cloning their dead pets as well.
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:Citation Needed:, but if this checks out, then I'll concede the point.
 
SotF said:
One other thing to point out that even with the circumstances of his, well, birth, legally, Clark is partially responsible for Connor.
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Did you watch a vastly different YJ than the rest of us?

Conner was provided with adult supervision, a home, education, food, clothing, and a support group of his peers.

All provided by the organization Superman is a part of.

Even assuming you are right here, its a moot point, those obligations were fulfilled.
 
lefthandturnsign said:
That said, if Kon wanted to sue for back owed child support, Luthor is the better option.
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So about a year's worth of child support?

Actually, is that how child support works? I'm not the most knowledgeable person when it comes to the U.S. court system, but I'm pretty sure the courts couldn't compel someone to back pay, only pay from the date the child support was actually established.
 
Trunko said:
Can you please explain?
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shotiegun doesn't want Krypto the Wonder Dog to be dead. Either Krypto should have never existed in the first place (therefore not suffering a terrible fate) or should be in the pod (therefore still being alive).

What he has failed to account for is the possibility that Krypto IS in the pod and has perished ignobly.
 
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