Not very?
Finding long lost family is kinda different from suddenly discovering you're a father after all.
With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Twelve)
- Thread starter Mr Zoat
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Not very?
Finding long lost family is kinda different from suddenly discovering you're a father after all.
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Not in the least, unless you are picturing buttinskis trying to foist a nonexistent parental relationship in this case too.
Superman is Kara's cousin, Superman is not Kon's father.
Which is why in YJ their relationship jettisoned that nonsense.
Rejecting a relationship that doesn't exist is not the same as rejecting one that does.
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- Ashtabula
I suppose it depends on whether she comes from the Kryptonian way of thinking that really hates clones or not. Also, Kal IS her cousin. Finding out that someone cloned her family against his will, and without his knowledge, might just piss her off. Kara does tend to have a temper as I recall. Hopefully, she would take it out on Luthor, and not Kon.
I...do know that Kara has damn near beat Kon to death at least once.
Thing is, Kal is not, and never was, Kon's Father in any shape or form, and people trying to foist that idea upon him, only seemed to make him reject it ever stronger. Kon is, as loveable as he is, basically a mutant form of Kal.
A potential little brother would have been a lot smarter of a choice. Barring that, just a kid Kryptonian in need of some help. Just trying to shove fatherhood onto Clark was pretty shitty if you ask me. (And I'm the type that feels that Superman could have handled it)
But if you want to push that Clark really IS the Father, well...then he is, at best, a form of rape victim. I'm being serious about that by the way, not trying to make light. I say that because, after some YJ viewing, that really does seem to be how Clark views it. Then to find out that Luthor is the other half....and whoo boy. You've got a whole can of worms opened then. Not only in terms of how much Lex pisses Clark off, but in how Clark has to be wondering what the hell goes on in Luthor's sick head about him.
Grey Dragon
(Verified Squid God)
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- Australia
While not family in a traditional sense it is very hypocritical of Superman both as an orphan and as a Kryptonian to isolate the only living relative he knows he has and callous to leave him in limbo without a guardian or caregiver, regardless of his dubious status as a 'father'/'brother'.
I hope that talk he had with the wizard Shazam really helped him see this as if he confronted the wizard about Billy being chosen as neglectful this would be very relevant.
Or alternately Kara calls him on this after being rescued by Kon. Either way, Superman is clearly showing his less than super side with his simple *lack* of decency to the unfortunate victim Kon.
Not at all. Conner is the product of his worst enemy trying to create a Superman-killer; after said anti-him-weapon is rescued, people for some reason want him to treat the weapon as a son. It's sort of unfortunate because we happen to like Connor and sympathize with his desire to be acknowledged, but Superman has absolutely no obligation to do so.
Kara, on the other hand, is a refugee of Krypton just like he is. He has a connection with her based on their similar history.
Yeah, when I was talking about it being screwed up, I mostly meant it would feel crappy for Kon... not that there was an obligation for Superman. It's a mess.
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- Ashtabula
Hey, guess what? Several years back, while you were asleep, some of your reproductive pieces parts were harvested without you ever knowing. Double guess what? Here's your son!
I mean yeah you've got a whole life outside of this other thing you do that no one knows you do. Explaining this to your spouse/family will be easy, and I'm sure won't be disruptive at all. He needs all the love and care of the parent that you never knew you were, and might not be even remotely prepared for.
Yeah, that guy who tries to murder you a lot had his hand in this, and yeah, you don't quite know what the kid can do, but you know that if he can do what you can, then all that stuff you worry about? Where you lose control and and break the entire planet? Yeah...he might be able to do that.
Why yes, your friends and coworkers ARE going to bitch you out for not instantly accepting this deep violation of your person. Cowboy up.
I'm in the camp of "Oh look, writers assassinating Superman's character again." But it wasn't like Clark tossed Kon into the phantom zone or obliterated him because "he's not a real person anyway."
He did put him in a place where he had a home, food, potential for training and friends after all. Or, if he had nothing to do with that WOZ. He didn't fight it.
This does bring up something I love about Superman detractors though. Not really aimed at you mind. But, it's like, people often complain about Superman being too "perfect"
Until he does something less than....and then he gets chewed out for being...well less than perfect.
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Grey Dragon
(Verified Squid God)
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- Australia
And he's a teenager? Raised for how many years by caregivers? With a support base and an identity? Not like Kon at all. Kon has precisely none of the things even a regular orphan takes for granted. I'm personally not going to be happy about it, but at the bare minimum I'll at least see to it he has a regular daily life under foster care or something. But Superman doesn't even do that pitance.
Character assassination?
Do you have any idea about some of the messed up stuff Golden Age Superman did to Jimmy Oleson? If anything the more recent Silver Age Superman has been 'whitewashed' into blandness. Character flaws are fine, but this is a jarring error of judgement that drops him below deadbeat dads who refuse to pay support for their kids.
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- Ashtabula
He appears to be 15
Precisely zero. He has however sat through, from his point of view, years of dream light training of killing you (if you go "bad) and replacing you.
No support but some creepy telepathic feeders. Also, his identity is basically guy who replaces you.
Well yes, again it's your basica character assassination for drama's sake.
Kinda like how when Kon first wakes up, he wipes the floor with just about everyone. Season or so later and he's sitting next to Mr. Worf at the bar.
Also. "'ll at least see to it he has a regular daily life under foster care or something." Oh no, no no no. Your coworkers insist that he is YOUR son, and you need to take FULL responsibility for him.
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Evil M. Lurker
What Lurks at Midnight
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Grey Dragon
(Verified Squid God)
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- Australia
And they have precisely zero control over my life, so I refuse. Peer pressure and social norms don't sway me. I would not adopt him and there is no way I could be forced to do so as there is no legal precedent involving clones, but I am not going to be an ass about it. He is still related and still a member of the family. I accept that. This does not mean I have an obligation to raise him, only ensure that he is raised appropriately.
- Location
- Ashtabula
Great news! Now everyone thinks you're an asshole. (Seriously, watch how Batman chews Clark out)
Good to know. Slight niggle. He's superhumanly strong, can probably tank, tank rounds, and has a real nasty temper.
It's amazing what people can do when a writer isn't going for cheap tension.
I should point out that Kon was getting at least some of that. I haven't watched all of YJ due to lack of Orange Lantern. I do remember Clark being chewed out for leaving Kon to Canary and Batman.
- Location
- Ashtabula
Darn sneaky edits.
Characters do change over time of course. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a single one who hasn't. Especially ones as long running as Superman.
And yes, Character assassination. Superman is the guy who, while dying, took the time to talk to, comfort, and aid, a potential suicide because that's the kind of guy he is. He could literally have died any minute, but she was more important.
Um no. It doesn't, it really doesn't. Clark is in no way, shape or form, responsible for Kon.
I am aware of Superdickery yes. I also know that Golden Age Superman had no problem with smashing people through solid walls, beating the crap out of wife beaters, and chucking people out of windows without rushing down to catch them. He'd also do things like destroy entire slum neighborhoods to force the government to rebuild them in higher quality.
Characters do change over time of course. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a single one who hasn't. Especially ones as long running as Superman.
And yes, Character assassination. Superman is the guy who, while dying, took the time to talk to, comfort, and aid, a potential suicide because that's the kind of guy he is. He could literally have died any minute, but she was more important.
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Evil M. Lurker
What Lurks at Midnight
- Location
- The City, USA
...All... Might...?
- Location
- Oulu
Seems unlikely. Or do you mean Matrix? I'm not sure if Kon-el being alive overlaps with Kara being supergirl. Or is this a YJ spoiler? I still haven't watched S2.
Grey Dragon
(Verified Squid God)
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- Australia
In a different universe I assume?
Do you complain because Powerman is a criminal? Same reasoning.
Or about the Justice Lords overthrowing governments?
The Young Justice Universe Superman is a failure in his dealings with Kon. Accept it. This is not character assassination. This IS his character for this version. When you write him, he can be as saint-like as you prefer. Considering how many versions exist, why is it so hard for you he could be a terrible person in one of them?
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- Ashtabula
It had something to do with....oh what was the name. H'El? That and...bringing back Krypton.
Not Superman. Also, weird reverse universe. So I guess that Kal had to be as scummy as the real one isn't? Ugh, sounds dumb just typing it. Also, wasn't it Ultraman?
Oh look, more character assassination with, surprise surprise, BATMAN being spared. Sure, everyone else are murdering loonies. But Batman, he can see the light!
What's that? Superman looking shitty while BATMAN is shown to be the better man? My GOD! I've never seen that before!
We need cheap drama, preferably teen angst! I know! Lets have Superman be an ass to an innocent kid who he historically looks at like a little brother! Oh and let's have BATMAN lecture him about it. Because that guy is great with kids.
Well he IS a SUPER-man. It's kind of the point? Besides, he's better than a saint. Where do they generally come from? Oh yeah, that one really corrupt church....yeah. With all the history of murder...and child rape....yeah better not touch that.
Also, I really take issue with your whole "he's a terrible person." It sucked for Kon, but Clark has no responsibility to him. I wouldn't expect a victim of rape to take responsibility to the now teen child that she gave up for adoption either.
But you're right. Hey, next let's have Captain Marvel rape Beautia Silvana. I mean, sure it's completely out of character, but it's a different universe after all!
Also, I have to be consistent. If I'm going to chew Injustice a new ass at every opportunity for being devoted entirely to assassinating Superman's character (with Batman being portrayed as the true hero. BIG SHOCK) I can't just give this a pass.
Now I don't remember Kon being put forth as Clark's son, but do remember Clark basically adopting him as a younger brother. Oh and adopting god damn ZOD'S son as his own. You know, stuff in character to Superman.
If Clark Kent is going to be Clark Kent in universe then yeah...I expect him to act like Clark Kent.
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- Location
- washington
for one hes dating someone two shes probably still only like 12 or so.
Tasoli
Life is for Living
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- Behind the Keyboard.
Uhm... In Young Justice he kinda is actually. We joke about him being Batdad for a reason after all.
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I feel like it's the cartoon's responsibility to tell an interesting story, rather than to keep any particular character free of character flaws (and room for character improvement).
I don't think the writers butchered the characterisation on Superman by making him prioritise his issues about self hatred and being reproductively raped over being responsive to an overwhelmed, lonely teenager who idolised him and butchered the characterisation on Batman by giving him skads of caregiver skills, because they valued Batman's character in other media and not Superman's. They probably picked the most popular secretive DC character for the exposition and Team Dad slot, because it meant they put less effort into the "Black Ops" aspect and they didn't have to establish or develop his character.
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- Ashtabula
And I have no problem with that. I'd actually endorse it just fine as being perfectly in character with Bruce pre Miller Time.
Now, trying to put my anti-Batbias aside for a moment. When Dick Grayson was having some problems with Bruce, who did he go to for some advice and support? As I remember it, it was Clark Kent. Because that's the kind of relationship they have, and that's the kind of guy Clark is. Open door, how can I help? I also think that Batman's character is too often jacked around itself when writers make him this dark, brooding, vicious asshole to each and every one of his loved ones. That's not Bruce Wayne, that's Miller time seeping in again. (Never let it be Miller time my friends.)
In my personal opinion, and it is just that, when I saw how Clark was treating Kon and then Bruce's actions all I could think was "Here we go again."
Admittedly, it was minor, but as I've stated, I'm so utterly sick with character's being portrayed negatively in contrast to the golden Bat-cash cow.
And it wasn't just Superman. From what I saw Wonder Woman was being made to be overly bitchy, with Batman the caring just looking out for the kid type, over Captain Marvel. I don't know a lot about Diana admittedly. But I always remember her being a pretty compassionate person.
I can agree with that. But the path I would turn down is the one that is marked "Superman being an asshole/murder/government tool/lunatic has been done TO DEATH." and that whoever came up with it, needs a good smack in the back of the head.
- Location
- Oulu
Maybe it was post one of the semi-reset buttons? I mean, I don't remember everything, but one of the reasons Kryptonians don't like clones is because they used to use them for spare parts, and then it turned out that they're sapient if removed from stasis, and cue clone rights movement induced civil war. This also led to their hypertech skin-suits which effectively uncapped their lifespans, (as an alternate solution to using clones) which was the reason why procreation was so heavily regulated. The artwork used implies the skin-suits evolved from their battlemechs, to powered armor, to tights, but I doubt it retained the same level of strength enhancement.
I do recall that when Supergirl (post-Matrix) first appeared, everyone thought she was stronger than Superman because Superman didn't use his full strength, but I've only read the occasional comic from that era.
And YJ Superman... eh. Could be worse.
I wonder if any of Pauls ended up in Injustice. I saw a cutscene where Superman murdered Captain Marvel (fine, 'Shazam', for saying that what they were doing was wrong.
I mean, I can sorta see how Superman, removed from his humanizing influences, could become a dictator, since !Lawful is probably baked into Kryptonian DNA at this point, but still, srsly?
ThrawnCA
Carbon-based biped
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"What brings the two of you here on a school morning?"
"Typos, mate."
"Alright, but I charge by the hour and I expect union rates."
"Typos, mate."
"Alright, but I charge by the hour and I expect union rates."
Humans' tension
and ones being caused
GCSEs
Okay, look:
he's only practised
my ability to get us
Remember:
: something important to him
strides purposefully
Next come the cakes and
Extra space
These "They"s refer to opposing groups. For clarity, perhaps the second should be made explicit?
look forward to
So:
Trunko
Dissatisfied writer
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- Milan, Italy
Also, if YJ Superman is protective of Kara as his JLU version...
... can someone please post an exaple of Superman's glare so we can have an idea?
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