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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Twelve)

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Mr Zoat said:
Also, why is Supergirl's heat vision blue?
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It needs to be some sort of visible in order to see where she aims it. As for which color... I'm imagining technobabble where the heat vision works by the Kryptonian extended their telekinetic field and using it to syphon all sorts of energy from within the field and focus it into heating the material within, and as a side effect this blueshifts any light passing through the field, but only so long as it's within the field because then it couldn't help the Kryptonian aim.
 
HadesHerald said:
Please explain this phrase, I've never heard it before, and it makes little sense to me.
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A lot of American private schools of all grade levels are church-schools for one Christian denomination. Their teachers are generally female and strictly religious. One belief that nowadays is just a superstition is that writing with one's left hand was sinful. A lot of people that attended these schools from the 1940s to early 1980s will tell you how scary the teachers could be and how willing they were to employ corporal punishment. In this case it would involve smacking a student's hand every time they wrote with the "wrong" hand. They had zero tolerance for such "sinful behavior." Perhaps those teachers didn't count as nuns, but it is a small difference.
 
Stop: I will certainly slaughter your infraction history
  • Staff Post
    • Red Bovine said:
    Should point out that this is likely to lead to a number of issues. I imagine a lot of people would not be cool with the government forcing that down people throats.



    While over simplified this is actually relevent to the genetic engineering issue. Mainly that it may lead to issues where the people who instead of getting GE to remove possible genetic issues get improved far beyond the norm. This issue is brought up in Gattaca where a major theme is how unmodifed people are looked down upon by those 'gifted' with GE or those looking for the best possible candidates for a job to the point that possible employers would strictly focus on applicants genetics. A doctor at the beginning of the film outright talks a couple out of any 'flaws' no matter how minor it would be reasoning that as parents they should want the best possible future for their child.

    That then runs into the issue of where things should end or how much control officials should have over the genetic destiny of others people children. Someone could suggest doing something like giving everyone super human enhancements despite how the parents would feel. Problems start when people would likely be against something like that.

    Remember hearing about OL mentioning that if he could he would give every mother the danner formula which was worrying even if he didn't mean for it to sound like it did. OL and the thread tend to talk about transhumanism from time to time while some readers complain about OL not going far enough and not accepting some solely because he wasn't comfortable with a lot of stuff yet strongly complain that he does this and practically calling him stupid for not getting them. Even if some people would be thrilled with having that many people would prefer 'vanilla' children. A lot of people would take offense to the idea that being 'vanilla' human is a bad thing.

    So just making GE mandatory is likely to cause massive shit storms. So it might be best to stick to doing it to children that have a great chance of actually suffering from a disease or disability while having anything else optional and leave it at that.
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    Narutosramen said:
    As an atheist I will tell you, stem cell research is fine, as long as you stop slaughtering infants to get the research material. That is all.
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    i will certainly slaughter your infraction history You were both told to stop the genetic engineering discussion on the explicit warning of infractions, and I am here to deliver. Both of you, take 25 points and please don't do this again.
     
  • Staff Post
    • nmWarden said:
    A lot of American private schools of all grade levels are church-schools for one Christian denomination. Their teachers are generally female and strictly religious. One belief that nowadays is just a superstition is that writing with one's left hand was sinful. A lot of people that attended these schools from the 1940s to early 1980s will tell you how scary the teachers could be and how willing they were to employ corporal punishment. In this case it would involve smacking a student's hand every time they wrote with the "wrong" hand. They had zero tolerance for such "sinful behavior." Perhaps those teachers didn't count as nuns, but it is a small difference.
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    reminds me of this teacher i heard about
    Mrs. Linden was one of those "Old-Fashioned" teachers who started her introduction to the class by giving a rambling lecture lamenting that "Paddlin' and Jesus" were now banned. She then asked about all our families, including where we went to church. I was attending a school that was roughly equal parts White, Black, Hispanic, Middle Eastern and Asian. Literally only 40% of the class attended Christian Church, and most of them were Catholic and Orthodox. I was in the back row next to Saari and Parja, and by the time Mrs. Linden had finished lecturing them on The Dangers of False Prophets, they were in tears and I'd made up my mind about her.
    "[FLAGRANTLY IRISH SURNAME REDACTED]." She glared over her eternally filthy horn-rimmed glasses at me. "Catholic as well, I assume."
    "I'm agnostic Ma'am." I corrected her.
    "Do you believe in The Lord?" she asked, glaring at me like a particularly vindictive turkey. Her face was comprised mostly of disappointment and wattles, as I recall.
    "I believe in Hell." I offered.
    She looked like she was about to approve.
    "I mean, you had to come from somewhere." I explained.


    Linden had figured out the disciplinary loophole, that while she wasn't actually allowed to beat us, she could slam her ruler on our desks, and if your hands or faces happened to be caught in the blow, well, we should have moved faster. Not this is not actually legal, but she was banking on us not having the legal wherewithal to take her to court.


    Then Mrs. Linden started ranting about the Plagues Of Egypt.
    She'd construed that the plagues were about Pharaoh Not Respecting God as We Students Weren't Respecting Her, and hence he Needed To be Punished.

    She really went overboard, claiming that entirely vegetarian grasshoppers could eat a cow to the bone in minutes, like aerial piranhas, and that they'd crawl under your skin and eat your eyeballs, because You Disrespected God So You Deserve It.
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    Fireball900 said:
    Now I'm getting the idea of you only having 'great rage' because it keeps bugging you - before the ring came along, you were a mild mannered reporter with barely any temper :p
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    Oh if only. All I have to do is read the news and the ring would have all the fuel it needed.

    Red Bovine said:
    Okay I think I should say that the whole faking all development is a collosal exaggeration. Yes he is using the name Grayven and pretending to be him but it's extremely likely he doesn't actually act anything like Grayven since he doesn't even bother with that and just uses the name and backstory. So while he may be lying about his name and backstory he is actually pretty genuine with his interactions otherwise.

    He also has had actual development despite what people say. From becoming a father to becoming less of an ass to realizing that a lot of the things he did wasn't really justified and even feeling bad about assimilation.

    As for continuing impersonating Grayven, he really doesn't have a choice. He started doing it to mess with the Forever people, use it to his advantage to gain advanced tech and gain a name for himself that he could actually use without passing out. To his credit he did eventually realize it was a terrible idea but by then he gained Darkseid's attention. Even if Darkseid may know the truth he is likely either messing with him or considering having him replace the real Grayven if he proves to be better than him. But if people found out Darkseid would be obligated to act since for appearance sake since it would have got out that someone tried to fool him and that would be bad.

    Another thing to remember that when he made pretty much all his decisions he was being influenced by the orange light so...
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    You can say that. I disagree, but we all have opinions. While I have no idea how the real Grayven acts, Rene-Paul has apparently done a good enough job that several people from Apocalypse seem to have bought it. Back when they had to fight the sun...giant...thing. I don't quite remember. But, to the point. He pretends to be Apocaliptian around his friends. He pretends to be Apocaliptian around the President and other allies, even insisting upon Apocaliptian customs. He pretends to be Apocaliptian around his new team that he has assembled. He pretends to be Apocaliptian around Scott and Barda Free, two people that would probably be a bit happier to know he's NOT actually Darkseid's son...just an idiot who made a foolish mistake for (admittedly) pretty sweet short term gain. He pretends to be Apocaliptian around his daughter, lying to her about himself and what he is. Never once letting her, of all people, actually know the truth.

    In short, EVERYTHING Rene-Paul does is fake, fake, FAKE. Minus the beating someone up parts. That's pretty real.

    Now while he has endeavored to be less of a prick, that doesn't change the fact that every interaction he has, with every single person he has one with, is him lying and bullshitting the entire time. I can't call it development when its not real. You may disagree.

    Helping Ace was indeed a heroic act. But I can't say adopting her was...considering...you know, he put her in the sights of DARKSIED. I mostly consider it a sweet, but ultimately really stupid choice that he's made. I also wonder about his actual care for her....considering everything else about him is a lie. If it weren't for the visible emotion in him for her, I'd question it a lot more.

    Yeah, Zoat pointed this out ages ago, which is why I didn't really bring it up. I get that he has to keep up appearances, but you know...he could drop some of them around his most trusted allies. Or...you know...HIS DAUGHTER. Not a complaint on Zoat's writing, just...another reason why I can't care about anything Rene-Paul does. He has rejected his SELF and that....I don't know that really, really rankles me. Not unique to this story though, I have that reaction to any character who does that.

    Well his Paragon double managed to be full of Orange light, and the Ophidian herself at one point, and has yet to follow colossal fuck up after colossal fuck up.

    Seriously...if one crappy day at work is the cause of all this. I almost worry about Real-Paul. ;)
     
    Cetashwayo said:
    Talking about stem cell research and such within the context of With This Ring is fine.
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    How.. did we even get here at all?
    In my head the logic train looks like this.
    1: The Controllers did genetic manipulation on an alien race to reduce death and senescence related to their natural reproductive processes.
    2: OL had a conversation with one of them, who asked "Don't humans try and reduce preventable deaths also?"
    3: Prenatal Genetic screening to make sure babies aren't born with preventable birth defects. Sure, makes sense. Directly raised in story.
    3a: But what if they 'cure' dwarfism? Is a world without real life Dwarves, Hobbits, and Munchkins really worth living in?
    (Cool conversations we could have had.)
    ...
    4: Profit! Suddenly debate over Abortion, when a fetus becomes a person and a side of Stem Cells. What?
     
    Maxx Crowley said:
    Oh if only. All I have to do is read the news and the ring would have all the fuel it needed.



    You can say that. I disagree, but we all have opinions. While I have no idea how the real Grayven acts, Rene-Paul has apparently done a good enough job that several people from Apocalypse seem to have bought it. Back when they had to fight the sun...giant...thing. I don't quite remember. But, to the point. He pretends to be Apocaliptian around his friends. He pretends to be Apocaliptian around the President and other allies, even insisting upon Apocaliptian customs. He pretends to be Apocaliptian around his new team that he has assembled. He pretends to be Apocaliptian around Scott and Barda Free, two people that would probably be a bit happier to know he's NOT actually Darkseid's son...just an idiot who made a foolish mistake for (admittedly) pretty sweet short term gain. He pretends to be Apocaliptian around his daughter, lying to her about himself and what he is. Never once letting her, of all people, actually know the truth.

    In short, EVERYTHING Rene-Paul does is fake, fake, FAKE. Minus the beating someone up parts. That's pretty real.

    Now while he has endeavored to be less of a prick, that doesn't change the fact that every interaction he has, with every single person he has one with, is him lying and bullshitting the entire time. I can't call it development when its not real. You may disagree.

    Helping Ace was indeed a heroic act. But I can't say adopting her was...considering...you know, he put her in the sights of DARKSIED. I mostly consider it a sweet, but ultimately really stupid choice that he's made. I also wonder about his actual care for her....considering everything else about him is a lie. If it weren't for the visible emotion in him for her, I'd question it a lot more.

    Yeah, Zoat pointed this out ages ago, which is why I didn't really bring it up. I get that he has to keep up appearances, but you know...he could drop some of them around his most trusted allies. Or...you know...HIS DAUGHTER. Not a complaint on Zoat's writing, just...another reason why I can't care about anything Rene-Paul does. He has rejected his SELF and that....I don't know that really, really rankles me. Not unique to this story though, I have that reaction to any character who does that.

    Well his Paragon double managed to be full of Orange light, and the Ophidian herself at one point, and has yet to follow colossal fuck up after colossal fuck up.

    Seriously...if one crappy day at work is the cause of all this. I almost worry about Real-Paul. ;)
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    Everything he does is fake? Dude that is an epic exaggeration. Also missing the point completely missing the point. If you compared pre Grayven Renegade with post Grayven Renegade you wouldn't really notice a difference. His jerkass tendencies? Genuine. His brutal honesty on how he feels about super heroes wasting their potential? Completely genuine. His desire to uplift mankind? Genuine. His desire to help people even when it doesn't benefit him? Genuine. His desire to help friends and loved ones because he actually cares for them? Genuine. His love for his daughter? Completely genuine.

    Just because he is lying about an aspect of his life doesn't make everything about him fake. If he never revealed his past in the first place but everything else happened nearly the same minus a few moments would it be any less genuine? Like with Paul being British Grayven being 'from' Apocalypse doesn' usually come up that often when it comes to his friends. The name Grayven and being from Apocalypse is only a small facet of his character. At the end of the day Grayven is an asshole who happens to want to uplift mankind, is brutally honest, genuinely polite to people when he feels like it, genuinely helpful to people that he finds useful or he actually likes, cares about his friends and loved ones and is willing to go through great lengths for the people he really cares about.

    Oh and for the secrecy? It should be pointed out that even if someone is trustworthy things like mind reading in various forms do exist. Or they could accidently tip people off that he isn't the real Grayven. Considering that Darkseid is the type of person who would test his 'son' with a planet destroying entity and mind raped him after the love of his life dumped him just because he felt like it. This is not the guy you would want making an example of you and the planet you are on along with your loved ones for trying to make a fool of him. An altenate version of Guy with a yellow power ring was able to get some very incriminating information that pretty much revealed that he is faking being Grayven and is terrified of people finding out despite being a new god who went through training from hell to get heavy mental defences. The less people that know the less chance of Earth getting screwed over by freaking Darkseid.
     
    Maxx Crowley said:
    Oh if only. All I have to do is read the news and the ring would have all the fuel it needed.



    You can say that. I disagree, but we all have opinions. While I have no idea how the real Grayven acts, Rene-Paul has apparently done a good enough job that several people from Apocalypse seem to have bought it. Back when they had to fight the sun...giant...thing. I don't quite remember. But, to the point. He pretends to be Apocaliptian around his friends. He pretends to be Apocaliptian around the President and other allies, even insisting upon Apocaliptian customs. He pretends to be Apocaliptian around his new team that he has assembled. He pretends to be Apocaliptian around Scott and Barda Free, two people that would probably be a bit happier to know he's NOT actually Darkseid's son...just an idiot who made a foolish mistake for (admittedly) pretty sweet short term gain. He pretends to be Apocaliptian around his daughter, lying to her about himself and what he is. Never once letting her, of all people, actually know the truth.

    In short, EVERYTHING Rene-Paul does is fake, fake, FAKE. Minus the beating someone up parts. That's pretty real.

    Now while he has endeavored to be less of a prick, that doesn't change the fact that every interaction he has, with every single person he has one with, is him lying and bullshitting the entire time. I can't call it development when its not real. You may disagree.

    Helping Ace was indeed a heroic act. But I can't say adopting her was...considering...you know, he put her in the sights of DARKSIED. I mostly consider it a sweet, but ultimately really stupid choice that he's made. I also wonder about his actual care for her....considering everything else about him is a lie. If it weren't for the visible emotion in him for her, I'd question it a lot more.

    Yeah, Zoat pointed this out ages ago, which is why I didn't really bring it up. I get that he has to keep up appearances, but you know...he could drop some of them around his most trusted allies. Or...you know...HIS DAUGHTER. Not a complaint on Zoat's writing, just...another reason why I can't care about anything Rene-Paul does. He has rejected his SELF and that....I don't know that really, really rankles me. Not unique to this story though, I have that reaction to any character who does that.

    Well his Paragon double managed to be full of Orange light, and the Ophidian herself at one point, and has yet to follow colossal fuck up after colossal fuck up.

    Seriously...if one crappy day at work is the cause of all this. I almost worry about Real-Paul. ;)
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    The problem with admitting to anyone he wasn't the real Grayven, was that until very recently, he always had a Fatherbox with him. He did hint to Batman at one point what the actual situation was, And Batman seemed to realize what he meant. He's also reluctant to explain where he's getting all his (mostly accurate) knowledge of Apocalypse and New Genesis.

    And while he may not be the actual Grayven, by this point he is a New God (just like Kid Flash, Zatanna, Michael Tawny, Deathnote girl, etc), and more than that he seems to have actually become a New God of Conquest. By playing the role of Grayven, he can ban Apokayptians (other than Darkseid) from messing with Earth. It appears that the supertech mob (I forget the name) still has some stuff it purchased from Dessad before 'Grayven' chased him off, but he's been keeping anything new from being introduced from that source.

    As For Ace, when he found her, she was a telepath infected with the Anti-Life Equation, at that point the only options were to cure her or kill her to protect people around her. Curing her involved filling the void removing it left, with part of his own essence, the desire to overcome whatit had done to her. and he left her on Earth 50 believing she'd be better off with the Frees. That plan didn't work out. She wanted to live with him. At that point she was as much in Darkseid's sites as anyone else directly associating with ReneGrayven.

    As for claiming to be from Apocalypse, when has he ever said he likes Apocalypse or wants Earth to be more like 'home'? He told the Light repeatedly that dealing with Darkseid is a BAD idea.
     
    Red Bovine said:
    Everything he does is fake? Dude that is an epic exaggeration. Also missing the point completely missing the point. If you compared pre Grayven Renegade with post Grayven Renegade you wouldn't really notice a difference. His jerkass tendencies? Genuine. His brutal honesty on how he feels about super heroes wasting their potential? Completely genuine. His desire to uplift mankind? Genuine. His desire to help people even when it doesn't benefit him? Genuine. His desire to help friends and loved ones because he actually cares for them? Genuine. His love for his daughter? Completely genuine.

    Just because he is lying about an aspect of his life doesn't make everything about him fake. If he never revealed his past in the first place but everything else happened nearly the same minus a few moments would it be any less genuine? Like with Paul being British Grayven being 'from' Apocalypse doesn' usually come up that often when it comes to his friends. The name Grayven and being from Apocalypse is only a small facet of his character. At the end of the day Grayven is an asshole who happens to want to uplift mankind, is brutally honest, genuinely polite to people when he feels like it, genuinely helpful to people that he finds useful or he actually likes, cares about his friends and loved ones and is willing to go through great lengths for the people he really cares about.

    Oh and for the secrecy? It should be pointed out that even if someone is trustworthy things like mind reading in various forms do exist. Or they could accidently tip people off that he isn't the real Grayven. Considering that Darkseid is the type of person who would test his 'son' with a planet destroying entity and mind raped him after the love of his life dumped him just because he felt like it. This is not the guy you would want making an example of you and the planet you are on along with your loved ones for trying to make a fool of him. An altenate version of Guy with a yellow power ring was able to get some very incriminating information that pretty much revealed that he is faking being Grayven and is terrified of people finding out despite being a new god who went through training from hell to get heavy mental defences. The less people that know the less chance of Earth getting screwed over by freaking Darkseid.
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    I don't think it is, and that's how I feel.

    Personally, I find all those things you just listed to be the "real" Paul coming through. But none of that is his development as a person. There is what he does (Largely Paul) and Who he is (or pretends to be). Only a small facet of his character? Sure, if you ignore every single interaction he has with...basically anyone.

    I have the sneaking suspicion that Darkseid knows. Or at the very least highly suspects, and I don't think he cares exactly. If another guy can be a better Grayven then Gravyen...well so be it.

    But part of my point is...he never even THINKS about telling anyone. It never seems a burden, or something he might need help with. Nope, it's just "Hey, I'm Grayven. On Apocalipse we do it like this." Even in his personal thoughts you never see him going "Oh shit....oh god damn it...what did I do? Oh this is bad Paul (I know he can't think his name) Oh damn me why did I do that? Why did I make that stupid joke?"


    Now a lot of that COULD have been due to Father Box's intervention.

    Whole possible fate of the entire World here and he just keeps on lying. No "Hey Justice league...uh listen....I'm not very Grayven, and if Darkseid figures that out and feels slighted, he can TOTALLY use that as a justification to invade earth, and New Genesis might just have to swallow it. So yeah...we could be just a tensy bit fucked. Might....might wanna plan on that. Sorry"

    But all this is pretty irrelevant. So back to my original point. I, personally, never can get into the Rene-Paul sections even when it should be fairly gripping, because Rene-Paul's rejection of himself, and lack of care for doing so, couple with my feelings that any development he has had been for the pretend character of Grayven and not the actually man behind the mask Paul.
     
    Maxx Crowley said:
    Whole possible fate of the entire World here and he just keeps on lying. No "Hey Justice league...uh listen....I'm not very Grayven, and if Darkseid figures that out and feels slighted, he can TOTALLY use that as a justification to invade earth, and New Genesis might just have to swallow it. So yeah...we could be just a tensy bit fucked. Might....might wanna plan on that. Sorry"
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    Exactly what would telling people accomplish other than making it even more likely that the secret gets found out? like I said, even if they aren't going to blab there are likely a few methods that people could get the truth from them. This is pretty much one of the main reasons Paul kept the number of people he told about his plans with Nabu secret except the stakes are far higher. Realistically if Darkseid invaded Earth would likely be pretty fucked as pointed out by OL before. It should say a lot that Apokolips is one of the few places that the Guardians of the Universe, AKA the guys with an entire Corps of power ring users, don't want to fuck with.

    I imagine he could accomplish preparing Earth for Apokolips or just doing something else without revealing the truth.
     
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    Red Bovine said:
    Exactly what would telling people accomplish other than making it even more likely that the secret gets found out? like I said, even if they aren't going to blab there are likely a few methods that people could get the truth from them. This is pretty much one of the main reasons Paul kept the number of people he told about his plans with Nabu secret except the stakes are far higher. Realistically if Darkseid invaded Earth would likely be pretty fucked as pointed out by OL before. It should say a lot that Apokolips is one of the few places that the Guardians of the Universe, AKA the guys with an entire Corps of power ring users, don't want to fuck with.

    I imagine he could accomplish preparing Earth for Apokolips without revealing the truth.
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    It would make the Rene-Paul sections a whole lot less boring to me. Which is important to me, because I like me the best.

    Beyond that, all I can say is....I don't care? Mostly because I'm not trying to badger Zoat to change things or critiquing the story. Mostly vocalizing thoughts that have taken me awhile to work out. I kept wondering "Why is Grayven so boring? I mean he has more action, and friggin Darkseid just showed up! But...I don't care. Huh...why? Why is that?"

    Rene-Paul doesn't...feel like a real person. Not like Para-Paul who I actually get. Even though Rene-Paul brings the violence like I likes....he feels like the wacky sitcom Hijinks in between the real story. Having a friggin Pony and an anime chick don't really help.

    I dunno, after the Source wall, I really expected Rene-Paul to start clawing his "Paulness" back. But...no go. I almost expected him to try and pull a Spring In Blume and try and purge himself of the venom buster grayness and get back his true form. Not sure how it would have worked, but that's why I read. Zoat is actually writing a story that I don't think I could write myself, at least not like he does. Which is why, despite the lack of beloved M/M that I enjoy, I've kept reading. It's been mostly fun.
     
    I'm not going to state an opinion on the pointless debate that's been ended twice. But if anyone wants to see a generally pretty good depiction of deaf culture in fiction, I'll recommend the tv series Switched At Birth. It can get kinda soap opera-y very frequently. But it does reasonably well with educating the audience on certain sub-cultures.

    Mr Zoat said:
    I have just seen the DC television Dominators.

    Why? Why would you do that?
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    Wait until you find out what they did with the Collectors.

    "The Collectors are a law enforcement organization from Earth Nineteen that are tasked with overseeing the ban on inter-dimensional travel. Ever since Earth Nineteen had been invaded by a neighboring and hostile Earth, a ban was placed on their citizens against traveling through the multiverse. The Collectors were tasked with catching anyone from their Earth that violated the ban and returning them to face trial and execution."
     
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    Control (part 14)
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    • 18th July
    21:09 GMT

    "Firstly, I should say that doing… The possibility of doing anything with orange light is going to depend on us being able to neutralise Larfleeze. And while Hinon Hee Hannanan sounded fairly optimistic about our chances, I wouldn't want you to assume anything."

    "Of all of us, she is most familiar with the orange light. If she believes that it can be done then she is most likely correct."

    "If you don't mind me asking, sir? Why haven't you gone after the Orange Central Power Battery before now?"

    "It was stolen from our research centre after our split from the Guardians. If it is true that they located it and chose to allow him to keep it, they did not share that information with us."

    "I'm pretty sure that I included its location on the file I sent you with the Guardian's ship."

    "Yes. Along with a warning on the nature of its current owner and a recommendation that we not investigate it ourselves. I do not know what you were expecting, but we Controllers are not incapable of taking advice."

    "And it was Hinon's thing."

    "Waiting until she could be consulted was judged to be appropriate."

    "I would be fascinated to know what the Guardians said about it."

    "That they stood by the decision. That the orange light is inherently unstable and should not be used directly in the manner you intend. And that once we split from them we lost the right to be involved in their decision-making."

    "Hm." I nod. "They don't intend to prevent you trying though, right?"

    "They have never had the right to be involved in our decision-making."

    "Fair enough." I return my attention to the Director. "If we assume that Controller Hinon and I are going to be back on Maltus in a few days with a Central Power Battery, I'd like your organisation to run psychological checks on its members for individuals who might be capable of using the orange light without going crazy. Hinon is probably better placed than me to describe what the precise trigger factors are. Once we have a list, we can request volunteers and start testing and training."

    "And if they are people in vital roles in my organisation?"

    "Then.. you.. should be glad that people who you know and have worked with will be playing such an important role in setting up an allied organisation. If Green Lantern recruitment is anything to go by a vanishingly small proportion of people possess the right mindset to use power rings. I'm not trying to poach your best and your brightest, I'm trying to get anyone who can use orange rings and stay sane. You just happen to have a large pool of well-trained people with detailed psychological profiles who are already motivated to fight the Reach."

    The Director gives me a shallow nod. "That's… Reasonable. And how do you see these new Lanterns supporting my Darkstars in combat?"

    "I don't know exactly what sort of Lantern-detection technology the Reach have. Lanterns are good at large effects, but giant glowing constructs are terrible for concealment. On the other hand, Lanterns can fight Beetles one on one."

    "We could deploy a Darkstar infiltration team with a single power ring trained Operative. If they encountered a Scarab Warrior they could put the ring on and kill them, but otherwise carry on as normal."

    I shake my head. "That would work… And maybe in the short term that's what we'll do. But in the longer term there are other things Lanterns can do that.. even your current generation maxim suits can't. Look, Darkstars are very good at getting onto worlds coming under or about to come under Reach control and operating there for extended periods. Heck, even attacking their naval docks further in upon occasion. But they don't have the power to fight off an actual attack, let alone push the Reach back."

    "Do you know how many Lanterns it would require to do that?" He presses a button and a map of the Reach appears. "How big the Reach is?"

    "Yes. And I know that we'd never get enough Lanterns to do it in time. But something I've discovered about orange rings-" My armour appears around me and I phase out and go invisible for a moment before reappearing. I take a cold gun and a purple healing ray out of subspace and brandish them. "-is that we can use them to build things. If we're going to take the war to the Reach, we're going to need a fleet. And a proper army."

    He narrows his eyes slightly as he considers it. "We have ships now."

    "Ships for transporting Darkstars and performing ambushes of opportunity. I'm talking about building up to the point where we can fight them openly and directly. It's an entirely different philosophy of design and action."

    "If we press the Reach on one front they'll simply fortify and expand elsewhere."

    I wave my left hand, an image of the worlds around Reach space appearing around the hologram. "Then we build up everywhere. We share technology, we police potential defectors-."

    "If I had the people to do that I'd already be doing it."

    "So we get them. Darkstars require very specific training, instruction and equipment. To say nothing of Controllers personally empowering their exo-mantles."

    "That will become less draining once we have a Central Power Battery with which to replenish ourselves."

    "A standard navy won't have that problem. We can pass technology to worlds under Reach threat… Not immediately threatened, but in the next decade or so. Build them up and coordinate them."

    "A division of responsibility. Each part doing the thing it can do best while coordinating with the rest."

    "Somewhat optimistically, yes. The Darkstars would keep doing what they do best-."

    "While no longer being put into situations where they need to do things which they cannot." He nods slowly. "I admit, I had been preparing myself to compete with you and your Lantern Corps."

    And nothing I said had anything to do with me seeing that clearly with empathic vision, no not at all.

    "But this sounds like an arrangement I can support. Tell me, do you have someone in mind for organising this fleet?"

    "Yes. But I'm holding off on making contact with him until after we get control of the Orange Central Power Battery, because without it we're not in a position to create the post."

    "And what place is there in your grand vision for we Controllers?"

    "We'll need rings, ships and equipment. And I understand that you can reshape matter on vast scales."

    "I can accept that in good humour. But I imagine that my brethren will want an organisation they can control."

    "Except they defer to you on matters concerning the Darkstars, and to Controller Hinon on matters concerning me. We're fighting a fight they want fought, one which will earn them the acclaim that the Green Lantern Corps has earned the Guardians. If they wanted operatives incapable of having their own initiative then they shouldn't have voted to destroy the Manhunters."

    The gem on his chest crackles slightly. "I would recommend not making that particular observation to the other Controllers."

    "I shouldn't need to make it. Give good orders and people will follow them. Demonstrate sagacity and people will listen to what you have to say. Do things for people and they will feel grateful. Do not demand obedience as your right; show that you've earned it and continue to earn it."

    "I should meet with this.. 'individual' you have in mind for Grand Admiral as soon as possible. With you as head of the Orange Lantern Corps-."

    I shake my head. "Ah, no. I don't have the administrative skills for that. I can teach other Lanterns and I can fight, but the job requires abilities I don't have. I was planning to recruit someone for that as well."

    "Very well. You have my provisional support. I will begin the vetting process you requested."

    "Thank you."

    Now all I need to do is defeat Larfleeze. And how hard can that be?
     
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    • Mr Zoat said:
    "Then.. you.. should be glad that people who you know and have worked with will be playing such an important role in setting up an allied organisation. If Green Lantern recruitment is anything to go by a vanishingly small proportion of people possess the right mindset to use them. I'm not trying to poach your best and your brightest, I'm trying to get anyone who can use them and stay sane. You just happen to have a large pool of well trained people with detailed psychological profiles who are already motivated to fight the Reach."
    Click to expand...
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    The subject of "them" is unclear in this paragraph. Contrast it to this later paragraph below where the subject is clear.

    Mr Zoat said:
    "Yes. And I know that we'd never get enough Lanterns to do it in time. But something I've discovered about orange rings-" My armour appears around me and I phase out and go invisible for a moment before reappearing. I take a cold gun and a purple healing ray out of subspace and brandish them. "-is that we can use them to build things. If we're going to take the war to the Reach, we're going to need a fleet. And a proper army."
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Also, I suggest adding a hyphen in the first paragraph "well-trained".
     
    anyone else get the feeling that at least a good portion of that conversation was actually more testing and the multi-million year old was mentally saying the equivilents of "don't teach your grandfather how to suck eggs" and "I'm surprised you weren't rendered incapable of thinking that by the Orange Light"

    I strongly doubt these guys haven't come up with a way to spoof orange active soul scan's.
     
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