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So the Guardians of the Universe are Kyubey, then? :V
No. Once a new Lantern reaches Oa the situation is explained to them in full, and they are perfectly able to fly back to their home world and toss the ring. The initial recruitment however is pretty much automatic, and there's a good chance that whatever killed their predecessor is following the ring. With no experience, the chance of them winning against whatever killed a more experienced Lantern is minimal if the other Lantern in the Sector can't get there in time.
I wonder if he picks that warlord who showed so much interest in working for him. It looked like he left him in the lurch when he called down Agent Orange. But looks like and did aren't the same thing. If he gave him a small warning...

Well, the dudes an experienced warlord who loves fighting, and doesn't care who for. He looks like he would be perfectly happy championing the Controllers cause, not because he cares, but because it would let him do what he loved anyways.
Yeah, no. That guy is very dead. Larfleeze was so incensed that he didn't even turn him into a construct.
After Jack climbs the beanstalk and kills the giant, the giant's wife comes down and starts trampling villages, insisting that people bring her Jack. The "heroes" of course refuse to sacrifice a young boy, even as dozens upon dozens of people continue to die as a direct result. The "evil" witch, played in the movie by Meryl Streep, is the only one who advocates to just give the giantess what she wants so she'll go away and stop killing people.

The key lyric I was referencing is early in the song, "You're so nice. You're not good, you're not bad, you're just nice. I'm not good, I'm not nice, I'm just right." Admittedly it's a very heavy-handed representation of my point. But it's succinct.
I did not get that from the song at all.
 
Yeah, no. That guy is very dead. Larfleeze was so incensed that he didn't even turn him into a construct.
Stupid idea. Would it be possible to get Larfleeze angry enough that like with Renegade, he can't use an Orange Lantern Ring due to insufficient avarice? Quick, Paragon, start sending messages to his ring insulting his mother! :p
 
Stupid idea. Would it be possible to get Larfleeze angry enough that like with Renegade, he can't use an Orange Lantern Ring due to insufficient avarice? Quick, Paragon, start sending messages to his ring insulting his mother! :p
While not a bad idea against most ring-users, Larfleeze is long past the point where he could be affected like that.
In this fic, Paul continually refers to them as the Guardians of the Galaxy, because their sectors only cover the Milky Way... even though not one of them is a sociopathic uplifted raccoon with a gun fetish.
 
Huh, good example of using flight to make up for a lack of leverage on that squirrel.
 
Here. Not really godspeech, I believe Zoat once described itnas godspeech tourettes. Him saying that he doesn't remember saying it is about halfway down the next post.


7th September
07:00 GMT -5
Thanks! That is interesting.

One thing I did notice: after orange enlightenment, the orange outbursts of narration stopped entirely.
 
And even beyond all that, it's not like Larfleeze was a stand-up guy before all this, so why put his life on such a grand pedestal when countless mooks have been annihilated when some of them were likely far more redeemable than he ever was.

Paul strongly believes in rehabilitating people and has mentioned this quite a few times and is even shown taking out time to do this. His future self is even shown doing this with several major villains from different settings.
 
Lobo was in an episode of Young Justice season 2. Batgirl and Wonder Girl fought him and didn't die, so he's not as brainlessly OP here as in the comicbooks.



Not sure if that clip really supports your case. Batgirl and Wonder Girl barely slow Lobo down and at no point pose any serious obstacle. Sure they don't die, but that's no more than the usual softball the DC universe allows for allowing people fighting vastly superior foes to not die.
 
Not sure if that clip really supports your case. Batgirl and Wonder Girl barely slow Lobo down and at no point pose any serious obstacle. Sure they don't die, but that's no more than the usual softball the DC universe allows for allowing people fighting vastly superior foes to not die.
Or Lobo didn't consider them to be worth killing. They weren't all that much fun to fight and no one was paying him for them.
 
It is, because a magic user once noticed Paul doing it and scolded him for it.
Stop being an ass. This wasn't someone making an argument into a mirror, or in a Private Message. They made the argument here, in front of an audience. If Marcus wants to point out argument by an unequal analogy as a scummy rhetorical technique because he prefers logic, that is ok.

That is, itself, an ignoratio elenchi (a.k.a. irrelevant conclusion) fallacy: at that point, your argument isn't even material to the subject under debate.

By the same token, it makes it even more important that someone points out that you were failing to accomplish YOUR goal.
I believe his goal was to have it so that no matter what point you were trying to make, please make it with logic.
So... thank you for defending us from the perils of logic, oh Great and Powerful Coda?
 
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That's what I thought too. I mean I understood her before she went full on sing...but after that meh. Then the ground ate her and I still don't know what the hell is going on.

Yeah, the ground eating her at the end doesn't make much more sense if you can understand the lyrics. That's just standard musical theatre nonsense. It's supposed to be her last curse, to "leave you all alone to your fate, to die with your mistakes." But even though the lyrics imply she's just travelling far away by spell, most stagings, including the movie, depict her dying in some way instead. And she never states a clear character motive to commit suicide.

The song can briefly be summarized as, "I'm out, bitches. Good luck with your doomed little kingdom."
 
Yeah, the ground eating her at the end doesn't make much more sense if you can understand the lyrics. That's just standard musical theatre nonsense. It's supposed to be her last curse, to "leave you all alone to your fate, to die with your mistakes." But even though the lyrics imply she's just travelling far away by spell, most stagings, including the movie, depict her dying in some way instead. And she never states a clear character motive to commit suicide.

The song can briefly be summarized as, "I'm out, bitches. Good luck with your doomed little kingdom."
Honestly it really makes a lot more sense in the stage production then the movie because the movie cut out the scenes where Rapunzel, who she basically loved and raised as her daughter, albeit badly, commits suicide by giantess in front of her eyes after telling her about how much she hates her 5 minutes before that scene.
 
Question which area would a into the woods discussion thread be? I feel like we really should just make one but I've never made a thread before so I don't know.
 
That is, itself, an ignoratio elenchi (a.k.a. irrelevant conclusion) fallacy: at that point, your argument isn't even material to the subject under debate.


By the same token, it makes it even more important that someone points out that you were failing to accomplish YOUR goal.
My goal was started by telling people not to use fallacies. As long as people are sane then they will come to the optimal conclusion. What else would i ever want? Further more: You don't get to chose the subject of what i am debating.
 
Control (part 15)
20th July
17:48 GMT


"So how hard is this going to be?"

We're standing at the entrance to a small amphitheatre, the stalls around us populated by Controllers. I'm not completely sure whether this is all of the Controllers, or just all the ones on Maltus or even just the ones who could be bothered to turn up. Most look roughly like Controller Jevek, though there is a degree of individual variation. Longer robes and slightly softer face here, shorter and with hair there. Skin colour ranges from Guardian blue to purply-red and hair comes in black and white with nothing in between.

The general style of the robes appears to be set, but precise length, cut and colouration vary in a number of cases. The glowing crystal and glowing forehead are universal, though the one Controller Hinon wears is dimmer as she draws power from her ring. There are far more males than females… But I'm wondering if some of those I mentally designated as 'male' are actually gender neutral.

"I really couldn't say for certain." Hinon looks down at her ring. "Oh, if only Ganthet was answering me. We always worked so well together."

"Sorry, but I think they blacklisted orange rings."

"I'll go and bother him in person later. We will need to send a formal deputation once everything's up and running, and I do so want to see what they've done with Oa since I've been gone."

"Made lots of green stuff."

"But all of the people! I find it astonishing to think that they're prepared to tolerate an actual population when-. Oh, they're ready for us." The portal melts away in front of us to allow us access. "Follow me."

She floats through the air, feet trailing a little behind her as she goes. I fly after her while maintaining my upright posture. I didn't think that armour was appropriate, but with my initial impression made I've switched to grey robes with orange trim. I've only met a few of the Controllers while I've been here, and I'm not… I left Earth after haranguing the Justice League. Superman has been the iconic superhero on Earth Prime since the forties and I didn't think twice. So while even Guy hesitates to make cracks about the Guardians, to me? They're.. just some people in robes.

Maybe I'd feel differently if they weren't jamming my empathic vision…

Hinon occupies the centre and looks up and around at her fellow Controllers. "Brethren. You've all had the chance to consider the matter under contention. The Orange Lantern and I have given the matter a considerable degree of thought, and we believe that we have a methodology which offers us the best possible chance to recover the Orange Light Fountain. And neutralise its present owner."

There's a flash from the gem at the neck of one of the blue-skinned female Controllers. "The Guardians?"

Jevek's gem glitters. "What does it matter? The Vega Systems have been off-limits to the Green Lanterns since their inception. And now we know why." He looks around the room. "The light will be ours. The Controllers will be in control."

Another flicker from another Controller. "The continuous presence of Green Lanterns on the borders of Reach space slows the Reach advance. It would be advantageous for them to remain."

Another. "Alienating our Guardian brethren would serve no useful purpose, but it is a secondary matter. The orange light must be recovered and put to our use."

One of Jevek's look-alikes. "How do you intend to remove the Orange Light Fountain from Larfleeze's control? Your equations indicated that after so much direct exposure he will have become even more powerful than he was when he enslaved our brother Ogandu Onna Oslan."

"
I'm glad you ask." Hinon raises her right hand and generates… I think that's the Maltus version of Atlantean rune equations. "I won't know for certain until we can observe him directly, but I believe that I have a model for how Larfleeze could survive his experiences, even remaining capable of coherent speech. The most likely possibility is that he had what we might call a natural affinity for avarice, for seeing everything in terms of wants and needs. Without anything very much to get in the way of it, the orange light could form a most intense bond with him. At this point I'm not certain he needs either ring or lantern."

A glimmer from Jevek. "But his link can be severed."

"
Yes. With difficulty. Over time. In the short term we're going to attempt to neutralise his capacity to focus his desires on any one object, and so paralyse him. That should enable us to transfer the Light Fountain into a proper Central Power Battery housing."

"
And we can control the link. Cut him off."

"
Perhaps. Eventually. If we actually want to do that, we'd have to wean him off it and then feed in other colours gradually. It wouldn't be a quick process."

I form an orange gem on my own chest and forehead and flash it before anyone else can get in. "Yes, we do want to. Orange light damage is something we're going to end up having to treat amongst Orange Lanterns. We don't need crazy ones running around the place and making the rest of us look bad. Anything we learn from treating the worst case in existence would be invaluable in that regard."

"If it is inevitable, how did you manage?"

"I didn't-."

"Very weak desires, possibly aided by his lack of an attendant arcane construct. There was so little opportunity for the egress of orange energy that he had nearly enough time to learn to channel it without being overwhelmed." She brings up another chart. Me, presumably. "Then he had a construct created in such a way that it would encourage proper interfacing. Unfortunately, for those future Lanterns not fortunate enough to spend a great deal of time in high magic regions, it won't be practical to use it on others."

And also because you'd need to destroy their existing souls in order to do so.

"Larfleeze's current slaves?"

"
Once we disrupt him, he should become listless and apathetic. He won't be able to direct them."

"I would very much like to see if restoring them is possible. If nothing else, Ogandu Onna Oslan's restoration to flesh would assist us in maintaining good relations with the Guardians."

Various Controllers look around the room, and there's a shining of gems.

Then a short, Guardian-looking one nods. "We have a consensus. You are to proceed. We will begin constructing a Central Power Battery and holding cell in line with your specifications."

Hinon looks pleased. "Thank you, brothers. The Orange Lantern and I will make our final preparations and depart."

She turns and heads back towards the door, me close at her heels. She eyes me sidelong as the door closes. "I thought you weren't going to talk."

"You told me not to. It isn't quite the same thing."

"Starting as you mean to go on?"

"Yes. I told you that I don't intend for the Controllers to completely control the Orange Lantern Corps in the way that the Guardians do the Green."

"And I agreed that their sort of control wouldn't work with orange light users. But we need to lure the other Controllers into accepting that situation. Tempt them into committing to it fully."

I give my head a small shake. "What's left to do?"

"I want to check the system with the Ophidian once more. Then, nothing. We're off to see the Beast."

"'We'? I thought you were keeping out of sight?"

She pats me on the shoulder. "I'll be with you in spirit. Ready to begin again more intelligently if you lose."

"Let's hope it doesn't come to that."
 
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