IIRC it was pointed out the last time this came up that the only person to use it went insane. Not a recommendation.
With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Twelve)
- Thread starter Mr Zoat
- Start date
- Status
Empiricist2
Let's play doctor!
- Location
- Baton Rouge
Zoat has already addressed this. To you, in fact. It doesn't require a suspension of disbelief to accept that a military device that plugs directly into your brain, that also connects you to the brains of the people near you, would require more than a few months to undergo refinement and test runs so that the person who puts it on doesn't go insane.
I mean, think of how many telepaths in fiction have problems adapting to it when it comes in gradually over the course of years.
- Location
- Earth, 3rd rock from the Sun
Um, ALL super villians are insane; their tech is fine. See: Snart and the Cold Gun. That does not mean the Tech should be spurned.
I understand that. This see this as a case of "It will work if you work it, so work it if you want it to work"
We have not seen OL even start the ball rolling. By problem was NOT no instant psychic power, my problem is,
"Hello there Thinking Cap!"
*toss*
*sound of Think Caps potential falling into a Black Hole and vanishing*
"Bye-Bye"
Because Psychic powers, for yourself and others, especially in a manner that could be easily shared without ring help every time, is worth putting the effort in, even if it will not be as easy as I first hoped.
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- Location
- Canada
The SI doesn't seem to care about improving his innate power level, the ways he has done it is with things weapons he can best utilize with the ring, power armors and the kinetic belt I suppose. He's very much about using equipment, and not the kind that has risks. The one innate ability he did get is his emphatic vision and it was due to an accident and he keeps it shut off most of the time and has far as we can see he's made no real effort to train with it. Anyway, as it's been discussed already, if he really cared about improving himself he'd have been far more proactive with looking at how he could improve his body and/or brain and wouldn't be such a squishy and weak target (when deprived of his equipment).
Empiricist2
Let's play doctor!
- Location
- Baton Rouge
But he has.
He offloaded the actual engineering and testing part to KordTech. And they have even produced a prototype. It just hasn't come up in a couple months, because OL hasn't spent a ton of screen time with Ted Kord lately, and when they have it's been about other projects that OL has more involvement with.
One thing to remember: OL is not a researcher or engineer. He has no formal training in these areas even in fields where formal training exists. If he can, he plays around with the schematics until he gets something specialized to his needs, like the Crumbler projectiles. But if he wants to design something novel where copy and pasting or the equivalent of a night of AutoCAD can't do it, he has to get the actual experts to get involved. Sure, he can cheat a lot because the ring can do so much, but ultimately for something like the Thinking Cap he doesn't have enough cheatiness to make it safe and modern.
- Location
- australia
huh?why not?
- Location
- australia
it killed its inventer via brain cancer >.> (wait, wrong timeline?)
OL outright said he and Kord's people ARE performing intensive research into making the technology safe.
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- Location
- Earth, 3rd rock from the Sun
This is the post, the first time we saw that this OL had indeed encountered the Thinking Cap in this dimension. (He reminisced about it in an earlier post) The post that got my hopes up. And then nothing.
It is why I am so disappointed, because I though it would be ready for superhero use by now, and if not at least an update. It has been over 8 months now, and nada.
But he does. If you read from the beginning, the idealized body, and the experimentation with Garrik and Danner formulas. The difference between Renegade and Paul was a bad day at work the day before! OL wanted the better body; the reason he did not take Venombuster was the cosmetic side effects, and if the Danner or Garrik formulations would have worked on him without possibly exploding his blood, it sounds like he would have taken one. There was a time when he was looking for enhancements comparable with him.
And then, with no explanation in story, Zoat seems to have done a complete 180 without telling us. Because things that looked like promising avenues for self improvement, he is passing over.
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- Location
- Canada
It was said that reading the Renegade story-line wasn't required. For some this would invalidate that notion. Personally I just the idea that you're gonna get every detail of the story by ignoring Renegade to be silly, but w/e.
Empiricist2
Let's play doctor!
- Location
- Baton Rouge
Aww, don't beat yourself up over it.
It's only been a few months in story since that speech. For human trials of something that plugs into the brain, a few months is nothing. It's really not as unreasonable as you make it out to be. An update on its progress would be fine, but it's hardly a detraction from the story that it hasn't come up yet.
Yeah, it's not like we're going to be getting much about New God technology or society in Paragon relative to the guy who made himself into a New God.
- Location
- Canada
To be fair having something ready in 8 months would only work if you ignored some of the safety protocol.
It was very much about aesthetics rather than utility when it was done.
Well Zoat decided to make unavailable to him, so the SI never truly had the option to use them.
Zoat might say that, but really people don't keep acting that way just because of the initial phase, unless something fundamentally changes them during said phase. And really let's go a little deeper here, while OL is pussyfooting about making the amygdala improvement to his brain, Renegade overwrote his very self with the soul of the son of fucken Daikseid for what basically amounted to shit and giggles (though the SI as often acted in ways that are similar, I've already made posts about that matter).
Unless the alchemical processes made it extremely hard to modify his body with his ring, it should be very easy to just change his body with it and then put himself back to normal size and appearance, sure there'd be a good loss in strength, but he'd still be far stronger than a base human and immensely more resilient.
I really want to see the actual quote where this happens, I've already posted the scene where Wallace scene explodes, but I don't remember OL ever doing more than not reacting at all.
Might have, but he's been unwilling to do processes that would give similar benefits so IDK.
Well I've already expressed my annoyance at some of the actions (or rather lack of) from the SI, so I kind of agree with you.
Empiricist2
Let's play doctor!
- Location
- Baton Rouge
Maybe he would have hesitations about the increased aggression that comes with the venombuster.
I believe I was the one who brought it up, and this is the only relevant quote I could find.
So, not exploding, and it seems like he was going off the initial results from when they were testing out the Garrick formula. As for why it can't be tested safely, I assume because the only way to actually model how it interacts with all the stuff he's had done is to do it on himself, which is of course dangerous.
Still, it does indicate that he isn't going to be getting a Garrick injection even after he got a soul.
- Location
- Canada
Didn't the ring allow him to use it without it affecting his brain?
Sounds more like he's afraid of doing any tests rather than him having seen his blood explode. @Mr Zoat , what's the actual fact about this?
Not like I was ever expecting him to get one.
Empiricist2
Let's play doctor!
- Location
- Baton Rouge
Going by Grayven's behavior after getting that injection, I'm not sure it worked as well as Grayven had hoped.
- Location
- Canada
Meh, it was more of a narrative thing IMO, Grayven was always meant to act a certain way and that's what I saw.
- Location
- australia
or the natural result of taking on the metaphysical mantle of a being who was defined by their desire to rule (regardless of the original's competence, or lack there of).
its an interesting question how much of an effect that, coupled with a artificial soul created by apocoliptikan magotech and a generous dosing with a psudo-alchemical super formula has had on him, considering he isn't using the ring that was ordered/programmed to protect him from externally-induced changes to his brain matter anymore.... from a certain standpoint, you could argue theirs a good chance that incarnation of Paul has suffered death of personality, or is potentially at risk of such at some point..
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- Location
- Canada
Well obviously when he became gravy there wasn't such a great need for SoD anymore, but to the path that got him to that point was very much railroaded.
Don't forget about POL's scry wards. He has a constant military-grade stealth field. Regardless of the tech used, it's 404: Lantern not found.
Huh, I guess that's another reason for Nabu to be uncomfortable around him. POL is the one guy he can't ever spy on.
Huh, I guess that's another reason for Nabu to be uncomfortable around him. POL is the one guy he can't ever spy on.
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The problem with him telling the ring "take a snapshot of my current brain state, resist major changes from those levels" is that there's' a lot of leeway within "major changes". For that matter, given that he was using an orange ring at the time his brain state wasn't exactly normal to begin with.
- Location
- australia
doesn't the formation of memories count as changes at some level? depending on how close to the "Brick" level the Ring's ai is.....
- Location
- Canada
The ring AI is probably able to tell the difference between the two, it is a piece of extremely advanced schizo tech after all.
CrackedCosmonaut
I am not angry.
- Location
- East
If bisect vandal savage, would you get two?
Can he be cloned?
If you bisected him and a perfect clone, and stitched the halves back would you get two?
If you injected him with both Danner and Garrick at once, would he explode?
If he is assimilated, would he still come back?
Does the JL have his DNA sequence on file?
He can't scry ward every lost hair.
If he is old, can his DNA be guessed at much like we know some about Ghengis Khaaaaan?
Can he be cloned?
If you bisected him and a perfect clone, and stitched the halves back would you get two?
If you injected him with both Danner and Garrick at once, would he explode?
If he is assimilated, would he still come back?
Does the JL have his DNA sequence on file?
He can't scry ward every lost hair.
If he is old, can his DNA be guessed at much like we know some about Ghengis Khaaaaan?
"No, Brain, you can't cut me in half just to 'see what happens'."
"But Monsieur Savage, it is for Science..."
"I said no!"
Demeanour (supplementary, Renegade option)
- Location
- Hampden Park
19th April
10:27 GMT -6
I smile as Guy steps through the boom tube, power ring crackling. "Lantern Gardner. Welcome to my home."
"Hey… Gray…" Guy looks around, as if-.
"Oh, come on Guy, I wasn't going to invite you here and then ambush you."
"Yeah, well." His eyes return to me. "You kinda come with a warnin' label these days."
I nod, the corners of my mouth turned down. "So I should stop holding my breath for an apology from King Orin?"
He frowns. "Apology? What for?"
"I am -effectively- the Apokoliptian ambassador to Earth, and he -the Atlantean head of state- did punch me in the face in an unprovoked attack. And then needed me to bail him out after the big Star Conqueror mind blasted him." Guy tilts his head forwards slightly, his eyebrows raised. "I'm not saying I was expecting flowers or anything, but a verbal acknowledgement beyond a grunt would be nice."
He shakes his head. "Gray, you're a part'a the Light now. You should be grateful he just punched you."
"Oh? I thought the League had principles. Ideals you held to above what an ordinary man on the street might reasonably be expected to do. King Orin punched me because he allowed his passions to override his reason, not because I was doing something for the Light. Heck-" I spread my arms out, indicating the room. "-it's not like I'm hiding. If you want to make an accusation, do it. I turned up in court when my life was on the line. I'd gladly do it for a lesser charge."
"Yeah, that's what Luthor says too."
"And he would. You see, Guy-" I turn, draping my right arm over his shoulder and leading him out of the embarkation room and into the rest of the base. "-being the 'good guy' is rather dependent on you doing certain things and not doing certain others."
He brushes off my arm, but keeps walking with me. "You do remember that time they killed thousands of kids, right?"
"I remember that time Klarion did and they called me in to kill him. You remember how the rest of the Justice League stood around like lemons when Nabu demanded Giovanni Zatara serve as his host-slave?"
"And that time they mind controlled the Justice League?"
"You remember that time we proved that the Guardians of the Galaxy wiped out nearly all life on Mars? And left mind control tech in all its inhabitants up to the modern day?" I glance at him, left eyebrow raised. "Whose ring is that you're wearing?"
"They were tryin' t'do the right thing and they fucked up. It's not the same as doin' it deliberately."
I nod. "Tell me: all that technology I added to the Watchtower in order to prevent a repeat of New Year. Any of it still there?" Guy glowers. "Thought not. I'll be sure to let the rest of the Light know that you're wide open again."
"I ain't on the League. I asked around on Oa and Salaak agreed to upgrade the Watchtower."
I nod approvingly. "Good initiative, Guy. I approve. And I hope that the League do as well." Okay, now to ease off. "While you're here… I realise that it's expected, so I'll ask. If you're interested in switching teams-"
"I'm not."
"-I've got a thing for redheads."
He stops dead, his mouth hanging open slightly in shock. I make a clicking noise in the left side of my mouth and wiggle my eyebrows.
His eyes narrow slightly and his mouth opens and closes silently a couple of times. Then he closes his eyes, shaking his head and chuckling quietly. "Oh, fuck you, Gray."
"Yeah, sorry. Redheads are overrated. Burn too easily." I carry on down the corridor, heading towards the meeting room. "But anyway, I'm sure there's a reason why you've finally taken up my invitation."
"The League wanna know what you're doin' in Darfur."
"Very little."
"If you wan'ed me to believe that, you shouldn't a' used a boom tube."
"But.. some employees of mine have been working there. We were about to do a debriefing. Would you like to sit in?"
"Yeah. Probably should. You know you got no authority to be there, right?"
"What, I don't have the permission of a government that's been a party to genocide for… Five years now? Imagine how that undermines my righteousness. Guy, I stopped going to your meetings because I've stopped being so angry. I stopped being so angry because I don't have to put up with the Justice League any longer. They had years, did nothing, and now sent you to protest my actions."
I reach out and press the door open button set into the wall. The security membrane in front of us fades out, giving us access to the room within. The League may like to use heavily reinforced doors for things like that, but security membranes combine the strengths of physical barriers and force fields without undermining the strength of the surrounding walls by having them slide into a slot. Unlike a force field the membrane will stay functional without an external power source and this one is exceedingly resilient.
"Hello girls." Miss Amane jumps to her feet, Miss Shimmer looks up for a moment and frowns at Guy while Lynne keeps playing with the wrist mounted quantum computer I got her for her birthday.
Just a little more advanced than Richard's.
I stride into the room and plonk myself down in my chair. "Lantern Gardner's going to sit in on this one. Just to find out how badly you've broken international law." Miss Amane is still standing, hands behind her back in an approximation of parade rest. "Iname, you may be seated."
"Thank you, Master!"
Guy's still hovering near the door. "Grayven, how old are these girls?"
I point to Miss Amane with my right forefinger. "Eighteen." To Lynne. "Twelve. And before you say anything, how old was Robin?" That gives him pause. "And…" My finger wavers a little at Miss Shimmer. "Miss Shimmer, how old are you again?"
"In Earth-years? I dunno."
"You're an alien?" She nods. "What planet 're you from?"
"We never really had a name for it. Grayven keeps calling it 'Wilson' and-" Minor glare at me. "-he won't tell me why."
"You don't have a name for it? So, what, you're pre-spaceflight?"
"I'm not sure. That depends on exactly where space starts. But not with spaceships or anything like that."
"Do you know whereabouts your homeworld is?"
She nods. "In a parallel universe." She looks at me. "Am I going to have to explain this every time?"
"No, Guy can put it in a report and then the League will all know."
Guy takes a seat next to me. "What kinda parallel-?"
"I used to be a Pony. A Unicorn. My home country is called Equestria and the majority of-."
Guy leans closer to me. "Grayven, is she-?"
She glowers. "I'm not crazy, and don't talk about me like I'm not here."
"Unless you can think of another reason for her native language to consist entirely of equine noises, it's highly probable that she's being accurate in her description. Also, I was there while her portal was open and her understanding of magic is far more advanced than any surface worlder of her age on Earth."
"Okay. Err…" He looks at Miss Shimmer. "So how come you're Human?"
"The stupid portal turned me into one. I just hope it turns me back when I go through again."
"How're you finding being Human?"
"It's horrible! I'm nearly bald, I can barely feel magic at all, I go into heat every month and I keep falling over because I've only got two legs! Two! And no tail!"
Guy clearly doesn't know how to respond to that.
"Okay girls. What have you been up to in Darfur?"
10:27 GMT -6
I smile as Guy steps through the boom tube, power ring crackling. "Lantern Gardner. Welcome to my home."
"Hey… Gray…" Guy looks around, as if-.
"Oh, come on Guy, I wasn't going to invite you here and then ambush you."
"Yeah, well." His eyes return to me. "You kinda come with a warnin' label these days."
I nod, the corners of my mouth turned down. "So I should stop holding my breath for an apology from King Orin?"
He frowns. "Apology? What for?"
"I am -effectively- the Apokoliptian ambassador to Earth, and he -the Atlantean head of state- did punch me in the face in an unprovoked attack. And then needed me to bail him out after the big Star Conqueror mind blasted him." Guy tilts his head forwards slightly, his eyebrows raised. "I'm not saying I was expecting flowers or anything, but a verbal acknowledgement beyond a grunt would be nice."
He shakes his head. "Gray, you're a part'a the Light now. You should be grateful he just punched you."
"Oh? I thought the League had principles. Ideals you held to above what an ordinary man on the street might reasonably be expected to do. King Orin punched me because he allowed his passions to override his reason, not because I was doing something for the Light. Heck-" I spread my arms out, indicating the room. "-it's not like I'm hiding. If you want to make an accusation, do it. I turned up in court when my life was on the line. I'd gladly do it for a lesser charge."
"Yeah, that's what Luthor says too."
"And he would. You see, Guy-" I turn, draping my right arm over his shoulder and leading him out of the embarkation room and into the rest of the base. "-being the 'good guy' is rather dependent on you doing certain things and not doing certain others."
He brushes off my arm, but keeps walking with me. "You do remember that time they killed thousands of kids, right?"
"I remember that time Klarion did and they called me in to kill him. You remember how the rest of the Justice League stood around like lemons when Nabu demanded Giovanni Zatara serve as his host-slave?"
"And that time they mind controlled the Justice League?"
"You remember that time we proved that the Guardians of the Galaxy wiped out nearly all life on Mars? And left mind control tech in all its inhabitants up to the modern day?" I glance at him, left eyebrow raised. "Whose ring is that you're wearing?"
"They were tryin' t'do the right thing and they fucked up. It's not the same as doin' it deliberately."
I nod. "Tell me: all that technology I added to the Watchtower in order to prevent a repeat of New Year. Any of it still there?" Guy glowers. "Thought not. I'll be sure to let the rest of the Light know that you're wide open again."
"I ain't on the League. I asked around on Oa and Salaak agreed to upgrade the Watchtower."
I nod approvingly. "Good initiative, Guy. I approve. And I hope that the League do as well." Okay, now to ease off. "While you're here… I realise that it's expected, so I'll ask. If you're interested in switching teams-"
"I'm not."
"-I've got a thing for redheads."
He stops dead, his mouth hanging open slightly in shock. I make a clicking noise in the left side of my mouth and wiggle my eyebrows.
His eyes narrow slightly and his mouth opens and closes silently a couple of times. Then he closes his eyes, shaking his head and chuckling quietly. "Oh, fuck you, Gray."
"Yeah, sorry. Redheads are overrated. Burn too easily." I carry on down the corridor, heading towards the meeting room. "But anyway, I'm sure there's a reason why you've finally taken up my invitation."
"The League wanna know what you're doin' in Darfur."
"Very little."
"If you wan'ed me to believe that, you shouldn't a' used a boom tube."
"But.. some employees of mine have been working there. We were about to do a debriefing. Would you like to sit in?"
"Yeah. Probably should. You know you got no authority to be there, right?"
"What, I don't have the permission of a government that's been a party to genocide for… Five years now? Imagine how that undermines my righteousness. Guy, I stopped going to your meetings because I've stopped being so angry. I stopped being so angry because I don't have to put up with the Justice League any longer. They had years, did nothing, and now sent you to protest my actions."
I reach out and press the door open button set into the wall. The security membrane in front of us fades out, giving us access to the room within. The League may like to use heavily reinforced doors for things like that, but security membranes combine the strengths of physical barriers and force fields without undermining the strength of the surrounding walls by having them slide into a slot. Unlike a force field the membrane will stay functional without an external power source and this one is exceedingly resilient.
"Hello girls." Miss Amane jumps to her feet, Miss Shimmer looks up for a moment and frowns at Guy while Lynne keeps playing with the wrist mounted quantum computer I got her for her birthday.
Just a little more advanced than Richard's.
I stride into the room and plonk myself down in my chair. "Lantern Gardner's going to sit in on this one. Just to find out how badly you've broken international law." Miss Amane is still standing, hands behind her back in an approximation of parade rest. "Iname, you may be seated."
"Thank you, Master!"
Guy's still hovering near the door. "Grayven, how old are these girls?"
I point to Miss Amane with my right forefinger. "Eighteen." To Lynne. "Twelve. And before you say anything, how old was Robin?" That gives him pause. "And…" My finger wavers a little at Miss Shimmer. "Miss Shimmer, how old are you again?"
"In Earth-years? I dunno."
"You're an alien?" She nods. "What planet 're you from?"
"We never really had a name for it. Grayven keeps calling it 'Wilson' and-" Minor glare at me. "-he won't tell me why."
"You don't have a name for it? So, what, you're pre-spaceflight?"
"I'm not sure. That depends on exactly where space starts. But not with spaceships or anything like that."
"Do you know whereabouts your homeworld is?"
She nods. "In a parallel universe." She looks at me. "Am I going to have to explain this every time?"
"No, Guy can put it in a report and then the League will all know."
Guy takes a seat next to me. "What kinda parallel-?"
"I used to be a Pony. A Unicorn. My home country is called Equestria and the majority of-."
Guy leans closer to me. "Grayven, is she-?"
She glowers. "I'm not crazy, and don't talk about me like I'm not here."
"Unless you can think of another reason for her native language to consist entirely of equine noises, it's highly probable that she's being accurate in her description. Also, I was there while her portal was open and her understanding of magic is far more advanced than any surface worlder of her age on Earth."
"Okay. Err…" He looks at Miss Shimmer. "So how come you're Human?"
"The stupid portal turned me into one. I just hope it turns me back when I go through again."
"How're you finding being Human?"
"It's horrible! I'm nearly bald, I can barely feel magic at all, I go into heat every month and I keep falling over because I've only got two legs! Two! And no tail!"
Guy clearly doesn't know how to respond to that.
"Okay girls. What have you been up to in Darfur?"
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- Location
- Oblivion
Someone needs to introduce that girl to chocolate and or cheesecake.
- Status