This is surprisingly fitting in my opinion and indeed a very good reason not to elevate Death to Core.
We Are the Gods of a New World Order [Warhammer 50K ~ Warp God Simulator]
- Thread starter Alectai
- Start date
- Sci-Fi Fantasy
This is surprisingly fitting in my opinion and indeed a very good reason not to elevate Death to Core.
- Location
- colombia
when you make death and life actively part of who she is,you get someone that will actively try to enforce the natural order of things (things live and therefore must die) wich can turn quite ruthless easily
jwolfe_beta
Semi Genre-Savvy Overlord
- Location
- Canada
What I hope to do is to snag 'sun' at the next level up and then another domain+ try the Gacha on the next. Sure it might be random but who knows what we might drag up.
- Location
- Wherever I feel like being
- Pronouns
- He/Him
We've got more than enough ruthlessness in the setting already. Let's not change the VM that much if we can help it...
CedeTheBees
Probably high right now
- Location
- Somewhere
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Like I said, Connection, empathy, community. Gives kindness a bit more room to grow in this universe.
- Location
- colombia
nah,lets wait untill we unlock another spheres
jwolfe_beta
Semi Genre-Savvy Overlord
- Location
- Canada
Yeah because given the setting, even if we extend a hand in greetings; we have to ready with the war-hammer and shield in case the person/thing tries to bite said hand off. The Space Marine brought up that very point before he left.
We get possible new domains from completing secondary objectives, with the domain being related to the objective. Here's my guesses as to what they provide:
Gain at least one Ally- Really not sure on this one. Friendship perhaps? No matter what it'd probably combo well with Connection and/or Elysium, and is unlikely to be something we can copy from any of our siblings later on.
Complete your basic Army List- This is obviously going to be some sort of military-related domain. It might be something like Discipline from Scarlet Cavalier. Either way, it's likely to be useful but unlikely to be a game-changer since we're not planning on going too hard into military and we've already got reasonable enough domains for that, and we'd rather get domains that work well both in and out of combat like Sun. Probably comparable to Guardian which while nice, seems unlikely to be picked over our alternatives.
Achieve a Rank 6 Cult- Growth seems the most likely to me. That, or something along the lines of Shepherding, since we're managing our cult as well as just growing. Either of those would be useful but not a game-changer.
Also, some quick analysis on domain elevation (all IMO):
Unworkable:
Death- As discussed recently, this is very dangerous. Having a dual life/death as core is... very unkind.
Weaving- Too specific, lots of actions where trying to weave/create something new just wouldn't go well I think.
Harvest- Not as bad as Death, but has lots of similar connotations and still doesn't apply to many actions.
Endurance- Makes everything last forever, which I think is not something we want half the time.
Elysium- The meme pick. Never attack. Ever. This is obviously problematic, but could potentially be mitigated under the right circumstances.
Workable:
Connection- I like this, it's already available on the majority of our actions anyway. Has strong influences on our thematics, but I think they're mostly positive ones.
Earth- A reasonably safe pick, but it means we can't be fast/nimble anymore. Works nicely with tower defense strategies. Minimal thematics change and a reasonable power boost.
Sorcery- Doesn't really restrict us at all, but means we're less reliable overall. Critfailing possibilities on all actions is dangerous, but that's already available on most of our actions (any action with Dana or Niamh involved, or if we turn on Sorcery) so it's not that big of a loss.
Gain at least one Ally- Really not sure on this one. Friendship perhaps? No matter what it'd probably combo well with Connection and/or Elysium, and is unlikely to be something we can copy from any of our siblings later on.
Complete your basic Army List- This is obviously going to be some sort of military-related domain. It might be something like Discipline from Scarlet Cavalier. Either way, it's likely to be useful but unlikely to be a game-changer since we're not planning on going too hard into military and we've already got reasonable enough domains for that, and we'd rather get domains that work well both in and out of combat like Sun. Probably comparable to Guardian which while nice, seems unlikely to be picked over our alternatives.
Achieve a Rank 6 Cult- Growth seems the most likely to me. That, or something along the lines of Shepherding, since we're managing our cult as well as just growing. Either of those would be useful but not a game-changer.
Also, some quick analysis on domain elevation (all IMO):
Unworkable:
Death- As discussed recently, this is very dangerous. Having a dual life/death as core is... very unkind.
Weaving- Too specific, lots of actions where trying to weave/create something new just wouldn't go well I think.
Harvest- Not as bad as Death, but has lots of similar connotations and still doesn't apply to many actions.
Endurance- Makes everything last forever, which I think is not something we want half the time.
Elysium- The meme pick. Never attack. Ever. This is obviously problematic, but could potentially be mitigated under the right circumstances.
Workable:
Connection- I like this, it's already available on the majority of our actions anyway. Has strong influences on our thematics, but I think they're mostly positive ones.
Earth- A reasonably safe pick, but it means we can't be fast/nimble anymore. Works nicely with tower defense strategies. Minimal thematics change and a reasonable power boost.
Sorcery- Doesn't really restrict us at all, but means we're less reliable overall. Critfailing possibilities on all actions is dangerous, but that's already available on most of our actions (any action with Dana or Niamh involved, or if we turn on Sorcery) so it's not that big of a loss.
Diplomacy, maybe? Dunno if it's abstract enough to be a domain, but if it is it'd be a good fit.
Ekzentric Lohner
I miss Wildstar...
One possibility for what gets unlocked by getting an ally is Hospitality - there's lots of legends about what happens to people who break/reject/abuse the rules of Sacred Hospitality, so we can actually protect ourselves by being hospitable. It'd probably synergize well with Elysium and Guardian (if we ever get that one). Also, it'd probably let us grant memetic "win them over with your cooking" quest-protagonist powers to our followers.
Strong disagree. Right now, we can choose not to use sorcery or a psyker hero if we can't stack enough bonuses on something to prevent critical failure (or if the something in question is risky enough to crit-fail on a natural 1 regardless of bonuses). If that's no longer an option? We no longer have that choice. It's not worth it.
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I'd say picking Earth is more limiting in that just keep in mind, when healing people with Core earth it also means replacing their flesh with living stone/wraithbone, when performing social with Earth it'd mean doing so via the introduction of life and soil - anything which doesn't appreciate having metallic flowers shoved in their face is liable to go fwoom.
Picking Sorcery on the other hand is basically "Sorcery Always On". Theres advantages to that when areas of our core competency will have lots of chances to Miraculous everything, but the disadvantage of being super magical maiden is that theres always a chance that the magic does something unexpected.
Personally I'd prefer to broaden the shit out of our domains first. Theres no great need for the commitment of a second Core and having a better selection means its more likely that we have some domain we could find to be less impeding(Trickery, Mystery, or Intellect for instance, are very nearly as universal)
Plus, given what we know of Life so far - the Maiden is literally incapable of regretting problems caused by a Core domain, there's no 'fixing' it.
So when is a second Core appropriate?
When we have a reliable ally that has a core that would do without prompting the things for us that the second core would entangle.
Picking Sorcery on the other hand is basically "Sorcery Always On". Theres advantages to that when areas of our core competency will have lots of chances to Miraculous everything, but the disadvantage of being super magical maiden is that theres always a chance that the magic does something unexpected.
Personally I'd prefer to broaden the shit out of our domains first. Theres no great need for the commitment of a second Core and having a better selection means its more likely that we have some domain we could find to be less impeding(Trickery, Mystery, or Intellect for instance, are very nearly as universal)
Plus, given what we know of Life so far - the Maiden is literally incapable of regretting problems caused by a Core domain, there's no 'fixing' it.
So when is a second Core appropriate?
When we have a reliable ally that has a core that would do without prompting the things for us that the second core would entangle.
Ekzentric Lohner
I miss Wildstar...
Hmm. A good point. Still safer than Sorcery, but it may not be safer than Connection after all. It depends on exactly how Connection would screw us over, and that's something only Alectai can tell us for sure.
This is all hypothetical anyway - I prefer Expansion when there are lots of shinies we can't otherwise get and Transcendence otherwise.
I would be ok with elevating Connection or Sorcery to Core, Earth could be pretty limiting, I think.
This said, I probably would prefer to roll Gacha, getting, for example, something like Artifice, Fate, Mystery or Voyage would be all kinds of incredible.
On the other hand, depending on what we will get from our Objectives, I could also go for more domains. So far I only see Sun as a must have though.
This said, I probably would prefer to roll Gacha, getting, for example, something like Artifice, Fate, Mystery or Voyage would be all kinds of incredible.
On the other hand, depending on what we will get from our Objectives, I could also go for more domains. So far I only see Sun as a must have though.
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We by default expand our Domain access at a similar rate to our favor token access. We were already at the point of having more applicable domains than tokens available, and that's even more true now that we've grabbed 3 more domains and only 1 more token. Though I suppose that could change with the scale increases, I'd expect to get even less tokens if that happens. Just this turn we had 15 domain slots available on the actions we did take, 26 slots in actions available. We only had 6 tokens to split between them.
Elevating is the solution to that. It doesn't expand our options, but instead makes them all much stronger. When we have more options available than power to invest in them (and we want to do all the options), it makes sense to get more power rather than more options.
meianmaru
The Devourer of Fiction
Or we could take a shot at gacha for cheat-Domains that bypass the need for sheer power by changing the whole game. Death allows making all of our forces extremely killy against anything living with the investement of just one token, as we've already seen. And with the one time we used the borrowed Artifice token we had, we got really good results, even if it was a Miracle-crit. Being able to apply that to everything new if we get similiar results would be amazing. Or other stuff like that:
Remember, the Beyond Limits -starter advantage we have is equal to the other two options we had, which included Avatar. That, at higher levels, could have thrown down with the Emperor in his prime. So rolling for gacha at least once to see if we get something that further supercharges VM's abilities is very appealing to me.
- Location
- colombia
agree,i preffer gacha
anything that can give us an outside context power to use is good
Yeah, the gacha has a chance of giving us super-useful domains like Artifice. It also has a chance of giving us near-useless domains like Plague, or more likely just a normal domain like Prowess.
That's the nature of a gacha. The high end is high, but you're gambling and there's a lot of mediocre to bad pulls available. If we could manipulate our gacha rolls or something I'd definitely consider it (say, by using the Fate domain that AM has as core) but as is I'm firmly against rolling the gacha next time we get access.
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- Location
- Between Worlds
By WoG, Prowess is a game-changing domain. It'll probably turn our soldiers into the ultimate killing machines in the galaxy, for one. If it applies to everything else we do, that's even more OP. Better Psykers, better Weaving, etc.
Huh, wouldn't've thought it'd be a game changer, but you're right. Prowess probably does apply to everything, since that's the only way I can see it being better than something like Guardian. Since you didn't provide a source I guess I will.
But there are still plenty of other mediocre domains in there, even if the example I chose was bad. We don't even have a firm idea of what domains are available, let alone the chances of getting them, and then there's still the actual roll after that. Ones like Disease, Decay, and Despair are almost certainly on the list (inherited from Nurgle). Any of those would be basically a wasted pick.
I am unsure. By word of god anything we can get with the Gacha will have some good uses, just it might be very situational if I remember right....
Edit:
Should have maybe look at what was quoted.....
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...I literally quoted it right above.
Limited applications and bad PR means we don't want to use it unless we have to, and our highly limited token count means we'll basically always have something better to spend on.
meianmaru
The Devourer of Fiction
Well, the worst we could roll are functionally useless most of the time in our hands if we happen to roll them. They have both bad optics and they accomplish things in a way that we/VM wouldn't want to accomplish them.
From what I've gathered, the chances are probably something along the lines of 1/3 game-breakers, 1/3 "normal" picks that would be unavailable for us without Beyond Limits, and 1/3 "trash" Domains. And those are good enough chances (if they are roughly what I just outlined) for me to want to take a spin at it at this point, as our basics are actually pretty good at this point.
There will be a shift in how the process works, yes. The previous turn plan was messy, and something is going to be done about it to ensure that we don't have the ability to overkill an action quite so hard as we did "Make a Nice Place for Guests!". I don't know what it's going to be, though.
We had 6 tokens to spend across nine actions. We will always have more options available (actions to take) than we have ability to take them (Heroes / Manpower to take said actions) and ways to empower said actions (Favor Tokens to spend). Limiting our ability to take actions is just good game design, making our choices more meaningful by way of what you didn't do. This turn we had 15 domain slots to use and 6 tokens to spend on them; 9 actions to take and 9 hero actions to spend on them, and 7 Manpower slots to fill but only 5 Manpower to fill them with.
Elevating a Domain won't magically allow us to take all the actions with resources we don't have. It'll make those actions we do take more likely to score a Miracle or fail in hilarious or tragic ways.
Elevating a Domain allows it to apply it's +10 bonus to every action that the Domain applies to. It also introduces Critical Failure for all actions taken without that Domain, as the VM tries to shove the Domain into everything her people do. Everything. It would even apply on successes, causing actions taken to incorporate that Domain in some way that allows the action to finish... mostly as intended.
It does not unlock new actions that provide new ways of acting - new choices that can now be taken that were previously not available, or directly empowering already available actions. See how many of our actions only have our Connection Domain attached to them. It does not provide bonus actions; we still need to apply Heroes and/or Manpower in order to take an action in the first place.
It does provide additional power, by allowing us to expend Favor Tokens in addition to the Domain effect, granting a +10 to however many relevant actions we take without spending a Favor Token.
But lets see how much of a boost we could have gotten with an Elevated Domain (presuming *only* an Elevated Domain and no other changes to our Domains).
How many of our actions last turn had which domains?
Life: All, required, Core.
Death: None. Peaceful turn, woohoo! Almost exclusively Kinetic actions.
Weaving: 5, all of which are RnD in some way, including 'make a nice place for guests'. Kinetic and Charity.
Connection: 4, all of which are social in some way - a result of this being a peaceful turn, as it's also our 'can into combat' domain. Preaching and Infiltration.
Endurance: 3, all of which are RnD Kinetic actions, expanding our army list.
Harvest: None. Peaceful turn! This is our Loot domain. Usually Kinetic or Charity.
Earth: 6. Our macro-scale construction and mass-production domain, this + Sorcery are responsible for our Earthblood. Kinetic and Charity only so far.
Sorcery: 6. Applied in many places for many reasons. Everything but Infiltration so far - Connections is our only domain even remotely associated with sneaking.
Elysium: 2. Charity actions only. A good way to protect our people from killbots falling on their heads. Charity only so far.
So we could have gotten +10 on up to six actions with either Earth or Sorcery. That's pretty sweet!
And which did we actually take?
Five actions in total. The number on the left is the number of actions with that domain that we took; the number on the right is the number of actions with that domain that we could have taken.
Death: 0 / 0
Weaving: 2 / 5
Connection: 3 / 4
Endurance: 1 / 3
Harvest: 0 / 0
Earth: 3 / 6
Sorcery: 4 / 6
An Elevated Domain would've given us more leeway to throw Tokens around, but the impetus that led to overkilling "Make a Nice Place for guests!" probably remains, resulting in +10 to four actions in the broadest case of Sorcery, only enabling a crit-fail on one action - "A Quiet Census," as the Sorcery domain has a different effect than Sorcery "on/off"... except when Sorcery isn't one of the available Domains, in which case it's probably the same.
But even without that impetus, we probably would have taken six actions, adding only "Modernize Your Dogma". This results in +10 to four actions in the broadest cases of Sorcery and Connections, leaving crit fails possible on two actions, then mitigated as much as possible by Heroes and Manpower.
Next comes the issue of planning. If we Elevate a Domain, every action with that Domain are automatically superior to actions without that Domain, due to the +10 bonus and lack of crit-fails.
Connections is broadly applicable.. but not to Kinetic or Charity actions, which comprise the majority of our Combat + army RnD, and general RnD respectively. It does come up in both areas, but it does so infrequently. As such, any turn plans we make will lean heavily towards Preaching and Infiltration actions - not necessarily because we need those actions to be done, but because those actions are less likely to fail.
Earth is just about the inverse of Connections, in that it heavily supports Kinetic and Charity actions, while encouraging us to minimize Infiltration and Preaching actions.
Sorcery is weird, with actions all over the place, though it leans towards Kinetic and Charity actions - at least, it does in the last update, which is the only one we have data on.
Sun and Weather both probably mirror Earth in their focus on Kinetic and Charity actions.
Someone may ask, 'why not TWO elevated domains? With two we'd cover just about every action we have!'
Well the answer should be obvious. Actions with both get +20. Actions with one get +10 and a failure chance; actions without either just get the failure chance.
Earth and Connections cover every action we had this past turn. They overlap once. That might get messy. Interesting, but messy. Connections and Sorcery overlap twice, and cover nearly everything - but that one thing they don't cover, that's the Lotus Star Reactor. Ouch.
TL;DR: I don't want to Elevate any Associated Domain we currently have to Core. Too easy to let non-aligned options fall by the wayside (don't tell me they wouldn't fall by the wayside, either. They totally would!). I'm also not interested in Domains we've heard of but don't have.
I spent way too much time fiddling with this.