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We Are the Gods of a New World Order [Warhammer 50K ~ Warp God Simulator]

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Renars said:
Thanks fellas,
Hope we don't die!
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When in doubt use flower power. More specifically tossing a large flower that contains a small sun at them:
+Special Delivery!+ Layla's voice howled over the Heart-link as the attackers looked up. Lobbed from the Moby Ark was a special shell, launched from the one Basilisk the Cult had managed to capture. The payload was special, and they had only one shot of it.

But one shot containing a Lotus Star Reactor set to go critical was enough.

The energies within the flower went critical as the blossom was incinerated by the shell's detonation, the small star in its heart no longer contained in the secret ward. It expanded to great size, enveloping the inner gate in a torrent of blue-white radiance.

When it faded, it was as though a divine scoop had been taken out of the checkpoint. The defenses? The wall? The murder-spirits? All gone.
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Sure they only had the one shot for the battle but they should be able to come up with something by the time the marines land.
 
[X] Plan Closest I Can Get To Diplomacy
DragonParadox said:
Yes obviously people do it, just like any crime and when the dully appointed institutions find out about it they try to enforce the law. In this case the law says we should all burn. To ignore that would be tantamount to rebellion by the marines.
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And everyone knows that rebellion by the marines is a thing which never happens.

Oh wait, actually it's the exact opposite. Even beyond that, marines answer to pretty much nobody, follow their own traditions above imperial orthodoxy, and frequently put the good of their chapter above the official goals of the imperium. Even the inquisition gets told by marines to fuck off fairly frequently, unless said inquisitor is ready to throw a fleet at them. Diplomacy with the marines is something we really should keep on the table.

Besides, we are the weavers of life, and marines are eternally in need of more gene-seed. We can use that as leverage.
 
mr_stibbons said:
[X] Plan Closest I Can Get To Diplomacy

And everyone knows that rebellion by the marines is a thing which never happens.

Oh wait, actually it's the exact opposite. Even beyond that, marines answer to pretty much nobody, follow their own traditions above imperial orthodoxy, and frequently put the good of their chapter above the official goals of the imperium. Even the inquisition gets told by marines to fuck off fairly frequently, unless said inquisitor is ready to throw a fleet at them. Diplomacy with the marines is something we really should keep on the table.

Besides, we are the weavers of life, and marines are eternally in need of more gene-seed. We can use that as leverage.
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So you are positing that all the marines are going to go secretly renegade, negociate that kind of thing in the name of their chapter master because of nebulous 'chapter goals'. If we found a company in dire need in a random encounter diplomacy may be posibile. These ones are coming to kill us. They have a lot of reasons to do so and quite literally no reason to spare us.
 
DragonParadox said:
So you are positing that all the marines are going to go secretly renegade, negociate that kind of thing in the name of their chapter master because of nebulous 'chapter goals'. If we found a company in dire need in a random encounter diplomacy may be posibile. These ones are coming to kill us. They have a lot of reasons to do so and quite literally no reason to spare us.
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Yes. "Not going extinct" is a pretty common motivation for space marines. These marines got a priority distress call to save a world, they don't actually have a personal grudge against us like the governor did. They are expecting a planet covered in daemons and horrors, and they are not going to find that. That will give them a reason to pause for thought, at least if we can withstand the initial assault.
 
mr_stibbons said:
Yes. "Not going extinct" is a pretty common motivation for space marines. These marines got a priority distress call to save a world, they don't actually have a personal grudge against us like the governor did. They are expecting a planet covered in daemons and horrors, and they are not going to find that. That will give them a reason to pause for thought, at least if we can withstand the initial assault.
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You think Space Marines are going to go renegade and accept rebellion, tech heresy and xeno fraternization because they fear death? Are you sure we are talking about the same space marines? Nine feet tall, spit acid, stupidly large pauldrons?
 
mr_stibbons said:
Yes. "Not going extinct" is a pretty common motivation for space marines. These marines got a priority distress call to save a world, they don't actually have a personal grudge against us like the governor did. They are expecting a planet covered in daemons and horrors, and they are not going to find that. That will give them a reason to pause for thought, at least if we can withstand the initial assault.
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nah

they are space marines they dont negotiate or do diplomacy without need
a rebel still a rebel even if justified

there are scenes on wich space marines openly admit rebels were justified only to bolter them down because they still rebelled and is their duty\

diplomacy at this point is delusional hope
 
Diplomacy with the Astartes is not impossible per se, but it's hard enough that it's practically irrelevant anyway. I think we should still do it because it show we at least try. Just... don't expect much from it.
 
DragonParadox said:
You think Space Marines are going to go renegade and accept rebellion, tech heresy and xeno fraternization because they fear death? Are you sure we are talking about the same space marines? Nine feet tall, spit acid, stupidly large pauldrons?
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Not the death of marines individually, the death of the chapter as a whole. Marines absolutely fear that.
 
DragonParadox said:
This is not the whole chapter, just the First Company.
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You misunderstand the plan. We are not threatening to wipe out an entire chapter of marines, that would be silly. The point is that additional sources of gene-seed are valuable to marines because they prevent the chapter from dying out over multiple bloody campaigns. This means that it is possible to bribe marines with gene-seed, because they don't want their chapter to die out because of other factors.
 
mr_stibbons said:
You misunderstand the plan. We are not threatening to wipe out an entire chapter of marines, that would be silly. The point is that additional sources of gene-seed are valuable to marines because they prevent the chapter from dying out over multiple bloody campaigns. This means that it is possible to bribe marines with gene-seed, because they don't want their chapter to die out because of other factors.
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OK, so you think they value their potential as geneseed sources so much that they would go renegade without knowledge or consent of the Chapter Master. Gene-slaves are a thing, distasteful to most yes, but generally less so than treason.
 
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mr_stibbons said:
Yes. "Not going extinct" is a pretty common motivation for space marines. These marines got a priority distress call to save a world, they don't actually have a personal grudge against us like the governor did. They are expecting a planet covered in daemons and horrors, and they are not going to find that. That will give them a reason to pause for thought, at least if we can withstand the initial assault.
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Cultists screaming that they can give you your heart's desire if you just put down the flamer for a minute is probably not a new experience for them. That specific button is also pretty obvious, so I'd be surprised if they haven't heard that offer before. We might be able to swing something like that in the future, but not in this context.

I know they say not to tell yourself no before even negotiating, but getting upgraded from bullets to profanity - let alone a dialogue- is going to take more than that.

Honestly the best we can do right now is leave something like a manifesto behind. I don't think it'll help, but the chaos goddess herself trying to justify her actions might be novel enough to get some attention in the after action report. From there the radical inquisitors and similar might be willing to investigate and talk to us a little in another time and place.

The absolute best way to get an in would be to find a place with active Tyranid problems that needs help badly enough to carefully ignore where its coming from. Run a few campaigns like that, carefully work around their issues, and offer an influential group -like a SM chapter- in the area a good deal could get us somewhere.

I think we should fuck off into the void to find some minor xenos and free human systems first though. We can come back to negotiate when they can't just kill us out of hand.
 
DragonParadox said:
OK, so you thinmk they value their potential as geeneseed sources so much that they would go renegade without knowledge or consent of the Chapter Master. Gene-slaves are a thing, distasteful to most yes, but generally less so than treason.
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This is getting into hypothetical territory, it isn't a plan that I have set in stone.. We don't know anything about the Azure Dragoons. They could be a picture perfect hyper orthodox, well equipped and merciless marine chapter, and if so everything I've been saying goes out the window. But they might not be any of those things. They might be on the verge of extinction already. They may be disgusted by the general state of the imperium. They may already harbour their own heretical practices in secret. These are all things we could use, if we at least try to figure out what their deal is. You've got this paranoid image that all marines are the former, when that really isn't the case. Chapters are more fallible and human than imperial propaganda and badly written black library likes to admit.

Isn't part of the point of this last update to not assume that all Imperium forces are perfectly indoctrinated mercilesss killing machines?
 
mr_stibbons said:
This is getting into hypothetical territory, it isn't a plan that I have set in stone.. We don't know anything about the Azure Dragoons. They could be a picture perfect hyper orthodox, well equipped and merciless marine chapter, and if so everything I've been saying goes out the window. But they might not be any of those things. They might be on the verge of extinction already. They may be disgusted by the general state of the imperium. They may already harbour their own heretical practices in secret. These are all things we could use, if we at least try to figure out what their deal is. You've got this paranoid image that all marines are the former, when that really isn't the case. Chapters are more fallible and human than imperial propaganda and badly written black library likes to admit.

Isn't part of the point of this last update to not assume that all Imperium forces are perfectly indoctrinated mercilesss killing machines?
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Even heretiical marines would try to purge us, especially heretical marines, because they would want to look orthodox. Why would they share their darkest secrets with strange Warp powers?
 
I'm probably going to regret throwing my hat into this fire later but honestly I don't really think we can afford to not prepare for a fight with the marines? Diplomacy so the Imperium gives us some more breathing room ("yeah totally not a chaos cult") is of course the best ending but I don't really think that we can count on it. We don't know if this is one of the better chapters yet, and honestly all the biotech already looks pretty heretical.

Also I'm really to see what sort of awkward clusterfuck we would've been involved in if we had the same daemon that'd previously possessed Dana's grandpa working for us lol...

Dana: *blinks*
Haruspex: *blinks*
VM: *face stuck in an awkward smile*
 
Alectai said:
"AHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAH!" Layla Screamed as titanic monstrosity met adamantium bulwark--and the wall crumbled to dust. "AHAHhhhaahahuh?" She was dumbfounded as the Moby Ark sailed through the fortification--momentum unchallenged as it roared into the city, glittering dust left in its wake. She looked back where they came from. "No, seriously, what the fuck?" she asked.
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Well, that wall didn't do much. :lol:
Black.Horus said:
I want to build up, make the entire Equinox our followers, build our fleet and focus on spreading our cult soo much and into the strategic worlds that the Imperium will need to clean up those planets first before considering attacking Equinox.
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That doesn't sound like that good of a plan.......
BronzeTongue said:
That's an incredibly inaccurate and dangerous view on the IoM. It's an evil system, but if it was fundamentally stupid it would have died. The IoM is a huge galaxy spanning empire focused around holding the line at the expense of everything else. They face an effectively infinite number of threat vectors and manage to reduce that to a finite number of nonlethal fuck ups from the perspective of the empire as a whole.
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While there is quite a few idiots, there is also a sizable amount of people that were actually smart. From what I understand, the core issue of the 40k imperium is it was always trying to clean up after the latest disaster. They actually tended to get back to winning before they get smashed in the face YET AGAIN by the latest galactic threat.....
XenonPrime said:
Diplomacy is always an option, it has variable chances of success but sending a message is of no cost.
Telling them the situation may save thousands of lives, even if it's just 'this is more work than it's worth ' and showing that this is not in fact a horror in waiting.
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That I fully agree with. I suspect no matter what we wold need to deal with the propaganda, but I don't think it would truely be insurmountable, we just need to work on showing we are not like the prior guys, which we kid of failed to do during the first arc....
DragonParadox said:
We really really can't try diplomacy with the Space Marines. Here are the things deserving of death under imperial law:
  1. Worshiping something that is not the Emperor
  2. Using Heretical Tech
  3. Making use of unsanctioned psykers
  4. Trafficking with Xenos
  5. Raising in rebellion against dully appointed imperial rule
So no in this case the only thing we can do is kill them, the closest thing to diplomacy we can manage is taking prisoners and trying to talk to them.
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Alectai said:
Hope perhaps may have been found in the form of the Space Marines, but the twofold trap of the Chapter system discouraging coordination, and their genuine need to serve as a bulwark against alien aggression have stayed their hands. The few who protested were overcome by their peers or strangled by denial of much needed supply and expertise. The rest stoically accept the new lot and attempt to secure their homeworlds at least. Perhaps it will be enough.
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And since the imperium is no longer always teetering on the edge, seeds of dissent seems to be growing in the space marines, so I do not believe diplomacy is not outright impossible. It would be very hard, but saying it is impossible doesn't really seem to be the case.......
 
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