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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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storryeater said:
What I meant was not that they'd kill you intentionally over ambition.

What I meant was that they'd kill you accidentally over putting too much firepower either due to not thinking things though, not knowing how to tune it down or due to some shonenesque sense of "If I do not give it my all, I will be insulting you" . Plus, they re unlikely to not want to test themselves on the challenge. Hotheads with fire magic are not really made for nonlethal sparring, unless the laws of the universe change to accomodate them.
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Fortunately, magic excels in changing the laws of the universe. The Bright spellbook has a spell for better resisting fire, and another for making you straight-up immune to fire from any wizard weaker than you (which, incidentally, means it never has to take more than one spell to figure out who's stronger).

Moreover, the Brights are the College that does the most work with the military, for obvious reasons. Brights who can't think things through or control the amount of firepower they direct to dealing with a challenge or threat, or who operate on shonen logic, almost certainly exist. They also almost certainly never make it to Lord Magister rank, and would probably struggle to make it to Magister. E.g., not knowing how to tune down your firepower is how the company you're attached to gives you a nickname like "The Collateral Caster" and then if you really can't get a handle on it somebody has an oopsie with a loaded gun that was accidentally pointed in the direction of the menace who keeps teamkilling when they're supposed to provide close support.

Put another way: Brights are a menace in social situations ("he just said WHAT to Elector Todbringer?!"), but to be an inadvertent menace in combat would require them to be incompetent in the core focus of their College. Not likely for any of them past Journeyman, and extremely unlikely for LMs.

No, the Amethysts are the ones who'd really have to worry about inadvertent fatalities during duels. But then, the flipside of that is that they damn well know it, and Amethysts who don't treat their magic with the appropriate level of respect for its uncompromising lethality will also be extremely unlikely to make it to LM status.
 
LightLan said:
He did.

Mathilde then decided to very visibly reconquer K8P.

I don't think she took it as Algard meant her to take it. - Not that he'd ever admit to that.
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If i can't get headpats from my superiors at the grey college, i'm going to get new superiors.
And then proceeds to become the youngest Lord Magister so they have to give her a headpat.
And dwarfs had to make a new word for her title... Which is a small headpat every time it's used
 
Someone: So, Mathilde, what drives your ambition? Why do you do what you do?
Mathilde: Honestly, i just like to be praised by my superiors?
Someone: What, just that?
Mathilde: Yeah, i mean the titles are nice, but its mostly just that.
Someone: Figures. Should've known as soon as i saw your familiar.
 
pucflek said:
Someone: So, Mathilde, what drives your ambition? Why do you do what you do?
Mathilde: Honestly, i just like to be praised by my superiors?
Someone: What, just that?
Mathilde: Yeah, i mean the titles are nice, but its mostly just that.
Someone: Figures. Should've known as soon as i saw your familiar.
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On a slightly less comical note I think anyone who read the file of how the young Mathilde Webber got to the College to begin with will see how and why she might be looking for validation from authority.
 
LightLan said:
He did.

Mathilde then decided to very visibly reconquer K8P.

I don't think she took it as Algard meant her to take it. - Not that he'd ever admit to that.
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What I meant to say is that that is an indicator that at least in the Grey College it should be par for the course for Magisters to be asked to do "Lord Magister's jobs" (whatever that actually means) without getting the accompanying accolades and titles.

To give an example: Our mentor Regimand literally had the Empress assassinated for the good of the Empire and personally killed a lot of nobility in a short period of time. He is also damn good at chain casting. If the reason the Grey College leadership doesn't promote him is due to not being sure regarding his trustworthiness or competence then they should probably kill him instead. And if Regimand just never ever told anyone but us and the Amethyst Matriarch about it, but he isn't some kind of extreme exception then that's another sign of how Grey Wizards can't be too demanding of headpats due to the necessity of their job.

Mathilde is a big exception to the rules and I'm curious if ine of the reasons she got the title was in fact that it seemed clear to the Grey leadership that, beyond just deserving it, she's aiming for it for all to see and is of the rare breed of Grey Wizards who would benefit and be spurred to greater heights by the title.
 
Rafin said:
To give an example: Our mentor Regimand literally had the Empress assassinated for the good of the Empire and personally killed a lot of nobility in a short period of time. He is also damn good at chain casting. If the reason the Grey College leadership doesn't promote him is due to not being sure regarding his trustworthiness or competence then they should probably kill him instead. And if Regimand just never ever told anyone but us and the Amethyst Matriarch about it, but he isn't some kind of extreme exception then that's another sign of how Grey Wizards can't be too demanding of headpats due to the necessity of their job.
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Regimand is canonically unwilling to learn more Battle Magic than Smoke & Mirrors.

It's possible that that's all that keeps him back from LM.
 
LightLan said:
Regimand is canonically unwilling to learn more Battle Magic than Smoke & Mirrors.

It's possible that that's all that keeps him back from LM.
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He also keeps retiring and unretiring. It's possible he's content being a Magister doing Magister things most of the time, just like he's content with his current relationship to Ulgu. LM isn't just a bigger headpat, there's probably the expectation that you graduate to doing LM things as well, which would require LM level skills to survive, let alone thrive.
 
Rafin said:
If the reason the Grey College leadership doesn't promote him is due to not being sure regarding his trustworthiness or competence then they should probably kill him instead.
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I feel like defaulting to murder when someone doesn't fit 100% into the college hierarchy is going to cause more loyalty and trust issues than anything else, really.
 
There ARE useful levels of loyalty below absolute. If nothing else the Grey college still needs researchers to poke at magic and none of the political or field works
 
Rafin said:
If the reason the Grey College leadership doesn't promote him is due to not being sure regarding his trustworthiness or competence then they should probably kill him instead.
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Kurtis Krammovich, quadruple agent makes your point about trust kind of moot.

There is place in the grey order for divided loyalty, as well as someone that doesn't strive for top notch skill.

Perpetual apprentices are an example of the latter. Regimand just decided to stop advancing later.

No harm done
 
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I can see Mathilde believing Regimand deliberately keeps himself from reaching Lord Magister when actually he just doesn't have the magical strength to take on the job, regardless of his skills. Not that we've seen his character sheet either way; Mathilde hasn't spent much time with him personally since she graduated to Journeywoman.
 
BoneyM said:
Everything Mathilde publishes on the subject would need to have an extremely convincing parallel construction to go along with it or the entirety of the Colleges of Magic will make the death of Mathilde Weber their top priority. I cannot emphasize enough how seriously Article 7 is taken.
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How do the colleges fight against dark magic if they can't study it or how the enemy uses it at all?

Mathilde's article on defeating Waaagh magic was well recieved and that's a form of dark magic. And clearly she studied how the enemy used those spells.

I don't understand the difference. Or am I mixing up my articles? I'm having a hard time googling them.
 
Tim811 said:
How do the colleges fight against dark magic if they can't study it or how the enemy uses it at all?

Mathilde's article on defeating Waaagh magic was well recieved and that's a form of dark magic. And clearly she studied how the enemy used those spells.

I don't understand the difference. Or am I nixing up my articles? I'm having a hard time googling them.
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The Articles are in the Collection of Important Information threadmark. Here's the relevant one:

7. No Magister may ever study the Forbidden Lores of the Daemonic Powers, nor the unholy ways of Necromancy, nor any other sorcery or witchcraft that utilises the wicked powers of Dark Magic. Any Magister found disregarding this Article is guilty of an Abominable Act and is both Heretic and Traitor and will be put to sword and fire immediately.

It's not known exactly what Waaagh Magic is, but it doesn't run on Dhar so it's not Dark Magic.
 
Tim811 said:
How do the colleges fight against dark magic if they can't study it or how the enemy uses it at all?

Mathilde's article on defeating Waaagh magic was well recieved and that's a form of dark magic. And clearly she studied how the enemy used those spells.

I don't understand the difference. Or am I mixing up my articles? I'm having a hard time googling them.
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If you know the weak points to attack in a dhar construct, you know the places you have to worry about being attacked by a knowledgeable or perceptive enemy. So any basic primer on anti-dhar techniques readily available to apprentices or journeymen is going to give an aspiring black magister a significant leg up. Any approval is going to be case by case, usually with your current or former master or an equivalent on hand to keep you from legging it out of the Colleges' reach.


Also, until Mathilde worrying about reckless wizards tapping into the waaagh field wasn't even on the threat board. And since we briefed Belegar instead of the Grays and Iirc didn't write a paper about The Rise of Morkthilde, it still isn't.
 
Rafin said:
What I meant to say is that that is an indicator that at least in the Grey College it should be par for the course for Magisters to be asked to do "Lord Magister's jobs" (whatever that actually means) without getting the accompanying accolades and titles.
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I don't think that's it. You can't really expect Magister to do "Lord Magister jobs", because those start at batshit insane and escalate. The magister just dying can be one of the better outcomes.

It also implies that the Greys are somehow more capable than the others, if their magister are capable of performing at LM level. But the Amber and Jade have to deal with the forests of the Empire, which are scary as shit. The Brights spend their time burning nasty shit while it tries to eat their face. The Amethyst have to deal with necromancers. The Light have daemons. The Gold are probably doing something useful and dangerous. Which only leaves the Celestials, who as expected are inferior, the smug bastards.

I do think that Grey's are less likely to get outside acknowledgement for their deeds (at least compared to Bright or Celestials. I imagine a lot of the greatest deeds of Light, Amethyst or Amber wizards don't become known either). I mean, if Regimand was an LM, then his thing of pretending to be suborned would be a lot more difficult. But on the other hand, I also think Regimand is just too sensible to become a LM. He needs to up the crazy, and he's smart enough not to try.

But I don't think it's true that Grey's are expected to forego acknowledgement and headpats. They're expected to seek it inside the Grey College. I mean, Mathilde has said something along those line multiple times. The great deeds are secret, except inside the college where everybody gossips (Though the degree and how secrecy is handled is hard to estimate due to Mathilde's "I have of course always known this" thing).
 
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BurnNote said:
But I don't think it's true that Grey's are expected to forgo acknowledgement and headpats. They're expected to seek it inside the Grey College.
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Still one of my favorite quotes:

BoneyM said:
It's often said to new Apprentices that many of the greatest deeds of the Grey Order will never be spoken of, and while that was true for the Empire at large, the exception was among other Grey Wizards. Algard and his Towers of Screaming Death, which reliably draws in Chaos warbands who seek the forbidden tomes supposedly encased within and walk right into Imperial Army ambushes. Kurtis Krammovitch, double agent turned triple agent turned quadruple agent turned unofficial diplomat to the Hedgefolk, who technically breached the Articles but fought sorcerers and necromancers for new recruits in areas where the College's influence didn't otherwise reach. Walther Kupfer, who fomented civil unrest from the slave pits of Clar Karond and caused inter-house feuds that still periodically explode into violence to this day.

And Wilhelmine von Bucht, who shattered the House of Goellner when they thought their trade empire had made them too powerful to tax, who dismantled every Smuggler Guild from Middenheim to Fortenhaf, who concealed the Imperial Regalia and forced the just-deposed Dieter IV to retreat to Talabheim without performing one final theft. Who in the twilight years of a successful career settled down to serve her College as Bursar. Who is now sitting across from you and offering you a nice cup of tea.
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I'm shocked, shocked to find out that headpats are being given out here. Also, did you hear about what Mathilde just did in Teufelheim? :V
 
BoneyM said:
It's not known exactly what Waaagh Magic is
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Correction: The current prevailing theory within the old world is that 'It possesses some qualities of the Arcane, some of the Divine, and some unique to it' (M, Weber 2482) but that it is fuctually a collective mental field around groups of Greenskins that somewhat behaves in a gaseous manner. ( M, Weber 2481)

Apparently there was a somewhat famous paper on the subject that even the elves admitted was 'somewhat intresting'.
 
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Jyn Ryvia said:
Correction: The current prevailing theory within the old world is that 'It possesses some qualities of the Arcane, some of the Divine, and some unique to it' (M, Weber 2482) but that it is fuctually a collective mental field around groups of Greenskind that somewhat behaves in a gaseous manner. ( M, Weber 2481)

Apparently there was a somewhat famous paper on the subject that even the elves admitted was 'somewhat intresting'.
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And I believe is current prevailing theory amongst the Greenskin is "Da roight proppa way ta smash faraway gitz with ya head".
 
I wonder where the Empire's redacted version of the Liber Malefic sits in the classification hierarchy. They hand it out to trusted Witch Hunters, Priests of Sigmar and unspecified others who hunt Chaos. They also have the original, but that's much more dangerous so is probably a lot more restricted. They both give greater knowledge of magic, the unredacted version gives a lot more.

This is all according to Tome of Salvation. On that note, if Mathilde ever found a copy of the Codex of Unspeakable Damnation, she's one of the very few that could read it safely, thanks to her belt protecting her from the Warpstone it's laced with.

Valmond said:
Library has value in and of itself as a repository of knowledge we can rely to not get torched every couple centuries.
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The Library of Mourning in Laurelorn exists and is a place with a lot better record of not being destroyed than Karak Eight Peaks has....
 
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