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A little sad the initial Coming Home conversations were bypassed in favor of the job descriptions, buuuut...

Yeah, it just sort of ended up that way rather than being the way I wanted to do it. The first coming home conversation needed to be Belegar's or otherwise it would hang over all the others, but I couldn't do that because I didn't realize that there needed to be this yes/no vote until after I'd posted the previous update. So I was going to have Mathilde visit Barak Varr and plan the Waystone project in the gyrocopter to avoid a substanceless update, but when I tried to write it I realized it was the perfect time to lay out the Eonir exposition, but I couldn't really justify Mathilde knowing all this from having skimmed the books when she bought them yonks ago, so it had to be set after she got home.

One challenge of the quest format is that that proper structuring can be tricky, since you're posting it one update at a time and can't really change the structure later without it being extremely jarring, and you need to plan ahead well enough to avoid realizing there's another vote you need to have for the update you're about to right.
 
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No, i am implying that unlike virtually every other King that would commit suicide by Slayerhood, he might not, and the whole of Karaz Ankor might be worse off for it.

(But i do think that thats a possibility too tbh, now that you bring it up. He seemed ready to consider it once or twice).
But are you suggesting that he does either of these things without first attempting literally any other solution, such as taking it up with the High King directly - which is exactly what every dwarf ever does before declaring a Grudge?
 
[X] No

We can't predict the consequences of this. We really can't. As much as I'd want to trust Belegar to handle things rationally and for everything to somehow work out so that everyone just talks things over... these are Dwarfs. When Dwarfs make mistakes, the consequences are often dire. Belegar may take things badly enough with how much stress he's been under that he assumes the worst or acts irrationally. Thorgrim might be stubborn enough or secretive enough or both that he won't be willing to share what is perhaps the singularly most important secret of the Karaz Ankor. Even worse is if both Belegar and Thorgrim both screw up and end up butting heads on this issue. Like, if I were to put it on a table:

Belegar rational responseBelegar irrational response
Thorgrim rational responseEverything somehow works out; jolly cooperation over beer.K8P becomes shunned by Karaz-a-Karak with massive geopolitical consequences.
Thorgrim irrational responseKaraz-a-Karak becomes shunned by K8P with massive geopolitical consequences.Possible Karaz Ankor Civil War.

And 3/4 of those possibilities just aren't outcomes I'm willing to risk. Not unless Mathilde gets more concrete information on this issue. I know if feels bad to be dishonest, but obscuring the truth for the greater good is Mathilde's job. She's a Grey Wizard. And this wouldn't be anywhere near the worst lies she's ever told.
 
[X] No

Honestly as much as anything this is because I'm concerned that if we do tell Belegar we'll then have to deal with people going "oh well now we clearly have to do the Waystone project to give more context" and while the project does look fun I'd rather the other options get a fair shake too.
I do not want to lie to our friend, our employer and our confidant, especially not ever what is mostly OOC information and yes it would be lying even if it is just by omission.

...we're a Grey Wizard and devout follower of Ranald, and you object to having us lie even by omission just 'cause it's to someone we like?
 
But are you suggesting that he does either of these things without first attempting literally any other solution, such as taking it up with the High King directly - which is exactly what every dwarf ever does before declaring a Grudge?
I am saying that there is apparently no precedent for that as Mathilde understands it. I am saying that this could chip at the foundation of the way Dwarfs worked since times immemorial. Thats what i am saying.

A King coming to High King with accusation of what amounts to treason is... How is it not clear that this is really bad.
 
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[X] Yes

...I am really unsure here, but I suspect that Belegar would be able to do the math himself, and holding back such information and being found out... well, I care about Belegar's trust too much. Besides he is not a teenager we have to protect from himself.
 
[X]No
My serching ability is failing right now, but I could have sworn that the situation between Belegar and Thorgrimm has been described as a brewing civil war at least once, and I would rather not drive the final wedge between k8p and kak on grounds as flimsy as Thorgrimm traveling a bit faster than he should.
Even if the situation is not that dire, I don't see what benefit could be gotten from driving Belegar into hating Thorgrimm even more.

I suspect you are thinking of this passage:

A hundred hundred roadblocks between the average human and their past, but since the first founding of Karaz-a-Karak, every single event to ever befall the Dwarves has been carefully recorded and remains right here, carefully preserved by rune and artifice. Three thousand years ago the ancestors of the Empire had barely migrated, but every wrong done to Karak Eight Peaks had been recorded in exhausting detail, as demonstrated by the series of mighty tomes hauled over by the Dwarven attendants. The most venerable of the Longbeards begins to leaf through at the High King's instruction, who then turns his attention to King Belegar. "If you can keep the fight going until a Throng gets there, we may be able to double the harvest of avenged Grudges. How long can your foothold last?"

"How long can yours?" King Belegar responds, and you fight to keep your expression neutral. The moment stretches as the two stare obstinately at each other. "The East Gate is taken and fortified. Karag Nar is completely cleared, Karag Lhune has only a colony of spiders that are deciding whether to starve or be shot until it is the same, and both are fortified against any intruders from below. The Citadel is taken, and the caldera has been burned clear and by the time I return there will be enough artillery mounted that anything foolish enough to show itself will die. Kvinn-Wyr is infested by feral trolls, as much an obstacle to our enemies as it is to us, and that flank too is being fortified. Karak Azul's Throng has reached us and King Kazador has sworn to me that each one will die before he lets his people be cut off again. Karak Norn is selling us war machines on credit. Karak Izor sent colonisers three months ago. Barak Varr is already counting their profits. There are manlings building houses. There are Halflings building houses. As far as I can see, Karak Eight Peaks has a brighter future than any Hold east of Black Fire Pass." He points at the Book, which stopped having its pages flipped as the Elder turned to watch. "That Karak is three thousand years dead. If the one that exists today holds no interest to you, I have no business here."

The entire room is still, as all present turn to watch the confrontation. You included. You've never even heard of a Dwarven civil war, but you might be about to witness the beginning of one.
 
I am saying that there is apparently no precedent from that as Mathilde understands it. I am saying that this could chip at the foundation of the way Dwarfs worked since times immemorial. Thats what i am saying.
I think you're dodging the question entirely because it disproves your claim. Yes or no, do you think Belegar will act upon his suspicions without attempting to seek recompense with Thorgrim first, as is the standard way of doing things before declaring a Grudge as per Word of God, and as he did the last time he felt Thorgrim had wronged him?

EDIT: And that he managed to do quietly by agreeing to pretend that Mathilde never asked for aid, avoiding any public blowup?
 
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I don't think we have anything saying Thorgrim is unmarried?
We know he has no children. We also know that married dwarves tend to produce their four and then stop. The simplest explanation for him having no children despite being over two hundred years old is that he is unmarried. The obvious reason he would stay unmarried is "he has lived most of the last two hundred years believing the doom of the dwarves was nigh due to the failing Runes of Valaya, and didn't want to bring doomed children into the world."

By the way, a fun fact: the term for "a partner you pretend to be in a relationship with in order to disguise your true romantic/sexual inclinations" is "beard," and we know how dwarves feel about beards.
 
[X] No

We can't predict the consequences of this. We really can't. As much as I'd want to trust Belegar to handle things rationally and for everything to somehow work out so that everyone just talks things over... these are Dwarfs. When Dwarfs make mistakes, the consequences are often dire. Belegar may take things badly enough with how much stress he's been under that he assumes the worst or acts irrationally. Thorgrim might be stubborn enough or secretive enough or both that he won't be willing to share what is perhaps the singularly most important secret of the Karaz Ankor. Even worse is if both Belegar and Thorgrim both screw up and end up butting heads on this issue. Like, if I were to put it on a table:

Belegar rational responseBelegar irrational response
Thorgrim rational responseEverything somehow works out; jolly cooperation over beer.K8P becomes shunned by Karaz-a-Karak with massive geopolitical consequences.
Thorgrim irrational responseKaraz-a-Karak becomes shunned by K8P with massive geopolitical consequences.Possible Karaz Ankor Civil War.

And 3/4 of those possibilities just aren't outcomes I'm willing to risk. Not unless Mathilde gets more concrete information on this issue. I know if feels bad to be dishonest, but obscuring the truth for the greater good is Mathilde's job. She's a Grey Wizard. And this wouldn't be anywhere near the worst lies she's ever told.
I would add here "Belegar finds out that his spymistress held back information from him." The outcome of that would be quite bad.
 
...we're a Grey Wizard and devout follower of Ranald, and you object to having us lie even by omission just 'cause it's to someone we like?

We mostly lie to our enemies. I don't think we have ever lied to Belegar, certainly not about something this important and because we did not trust him.
Just because Mathy lies and is good at it does not mean she does not have limits or morals. After all she is really good at killing too, but she is not a Khaineite.
 
I think you're dodging the question entirely because it disproves your claim. Yes or no, do you think Belegar will act upon his suspicions without attempting to seek recompense with Thorgrim first, as is the standard way of doing things before declaring a Grudge as per Word of God, and as he did the last time he felt Thorgrim had wronged him?
Do you not understand that i am saying that seeking recompense is already fucking over the precedent of a system 7000 years old that is keeping the Karaz Ankor mostly united or do i have to repeat myself in exactly the same way ten more times?

EDIT:
Also reading what Aforess quoted and i forgot about, yeah i actually think he might not seek recompense. Belegar was threatening splintering from High King before Thorgrim told him to die well. And then in came the waystone deal. And entire Karaz Ankor throwing sticks under his legs via trade inhibitions like the silk. So yeah, i think this is damn precarious position.
 
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