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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Nerdasaurus Rex said:
The tower is literally a fortification from which we can mount cannon and magical superweapons from. Boney posted art of flying towers being used by the Empire. Yes, the airship is a modified wolfship, so it is obviously a weapon, but lets not forget that wolfships hunt in packs, focusing their fire to eliminate targets one at a time. Towers can hold territory, troops can sally forth from it, and it can resist retaliation. A lone ship can't do that.

If your interest is in bringing along a military asset, then the tower is still superior.
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I'm going to make the observation that the Wanderer plan doesn't say that it's a Wolfship. It only says that if it makes sense vibes-wise, perhaps it should be flat-bottomed for actually landing on the ground. Perhaps you thought of a Wolfship because of that, but there's no guarantee that's what it'll be.

Besides which, even if it were a Wolfship, I'm not sure that'd be a huge consideration tactics-wise. Wolfships cannot travel in three dimensions or are typically equipped with huge amounts of magical firepower.
 
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Parabola said:
are typically equipped with huge amounts of magical firepower.
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If by magical firepower you're referring to like, attack spells from the ship, I wouldn't count on that being a thing. Enchantments to do that sort of thing are easier to dispel than ones with an active caster. Defences are probably a better investment of College effort because they can activate momentarily to deal with a threat. I'd also expect that perhaps a mundane armament could be boosted (spells to make cannon aim better, give courage to crew or allow sight through smoke for example) so the ship can fight better, but isn't reliant on magic for significant parts of its ability to defend itself.
 
If you are already flying the firepower of mundane weaponry is massively amplified by gravity. Simply hitting at all with basically any weapon will likely kill pretty much anyone.
 
@Boney before Myrmidia and Solkan, did the Imperial Tribes associate the sun and Mannslieb as being part of the domain of any gods? They seem like pretty important objects to have myths about, especially since the tribes did observe things like equinoxes. Closest I can think of is Soll, but I understand he was a regional god, located in what would be Solland. I guess they could fall under "nature" and thus Taal, but I'm not aware of any direct link like he has with thunder, lightning, and wind.
 
Andres said:
@Boney before Myrmidia and Solkan, did the Imperial Tribes associate the sun and Mannslieb as being part of the domain of any gods? They seem like pretty important objects to have myths about, especially since the tribes did observe things like equinoxes. Closest I can think of is Soll, but I understand he was a regional god, located in what would be Solland. I guess they could fall under "nature" and thus Taal, but I'm not aware of any direct link like he has with thunder, lightning, and wind.
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Under the Ishernos and Taal/Rhya/Ulric Triskele Triad theoretical histories of the Cult of Taal and Rhya, Taal was associated with Summer and therefore would have been associated with the sun. And of course there's Dazh, who was worshipped by the Ungols even before the arrival of the Gospodar, and that would have spilled over to the neighbours, just as worship of Soll would have. A sun god is a useful thing to have knowledge of so you can appease them during drought.

Mannsleib would have been associated with Manann, hence the name.
 
Boney said:
Under the Ishernos and Taal/Rhya/Ulric Triskele Triad theoretical histories of the Cult of Taal and Rhya, Taal was associated with Summer and therefore would have been associated with the sun. And of course there's Dazh, who was worshipped by the Ungols even before the arrival of the Gospodar, and that would have spilled over to the neighbours, just as worship of Soll would have. A sun god is a useful thing to have knowledge of so you can appease them during drought.

Mannsleib would have been associated with Manann, hence the name.
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Hmmm, was morslieb seen as it's own entity, part of mors portfolio or associated with the chaos gods back then?
 
Tobtorp said:
Hmmm, was morslieb seen as it's own entity, part of mors portfolio or associated with the chaos gods back then?
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Morslieb's light actively mutates you if you are unlucky, it the one Chaotic thing that any human on the planet has to have been exposed to or must have actively avoided exposure to. I can't see how it would avoid being associated with Chaos in all cultures, by whatever name and conception that might have for it.
 
DragonParadox said:
Morslieb's light actively mutates you if you are unlucky, it the one Chaotic thing that any human on the planet has to have been exposed to or must have actively avoided exposure to. I can't see how it would avoid being associated with Chaos in all cultures, by whatever name and conception that might have for it.
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And it's still called morslieb and not chaoslieb or something. Like I don't doubt it's seen as a bad thing (because it is) but with which god or gods it's associated is not quite clear.
 
Tobtorp said:
Hmmm, was morslieb seen as it's own entity, part of mors portfolio or associated with the chaos gods back then?
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Associated with the Chaos Gods. The association with Morr is less literal than just 'Morr likes this moon'. The simple version is that just as Mannslieb is called Mannslieb because its pull causes the tides to swell and thus Manann's domain to grow larger, so too does the light of Morrslieb inevitably cause death that increases Morr's domain. The mythological version is that Morrslieb is the remains of, or a monument to, Morr destroying a gateway that Daemons were spilling into the world from.
 
Boney said:
Associated with the Chaos Gods. The association with Morr is less literal than just 'Morr likes this moon'. The simple version is that just as Mannslieb is called Mannslieb because its pull causes the tides to swell and thus Manann's domain to grow larger, so too does the light of Morrslieb inevitably cause death that increases Morr's domain. The mythological version is that Morrslieb is the remains of, or a monument to, Morr destroying a gateway that Daemons were spilling into the world from.
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... That last part is pretty cool and I didn't know that. Neat.
 
DragonParadox said:
Morslieb's light actively mutates you if you are unlucky, it the one Chaotic thing that any human on the planet has to have been exposed to or must have actively avoided exposure to. I can't see how it would avoid being associated with Chaos in all cultures, by whatever name and conception that might have for it.
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The Nehekharans associate it with Sakhmet, who caused problems on purpose but wasn't considered capital-C Chaos-y.
 
DragonParadox said:
Huh, interesting. I just thought she was a minor Chaos god who slipped into their Pantheon, more or less being fine since she wasn't so much worshiped as placated and Nehekara being so far south.

One more reason to read those books on Nehekara.
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That raises the question that if a minor Chaos God is hanging out with a new clique and doing nothing to advance the cause of the main four, what makes them not just a regular God?
 
Boney said:
That raises the question that if a minor Chaos God is hanging out with a new clique and doing nothing to advance the cause of the main four, what makes them not just a regular God?
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I was assuming she did just not very well because of the aforementioned geographic location and the very active and powerful pantheon around. One could imagine a world where one of more of the Nehekaran gods had planned it this way with the intention of 'stealing' Sakhmet from Chaos.
 
I mean I've felt for a long time that Ellinill takes up the place of things caused by Chaos in many of the Elven "just so" myths and historical metaphors. I know that this contradicts the myths where the Elven pantheon (including Ellinill?) specifically and clearly opposes Chaos, but when are Elven myths not contradictory?
 
DragonParadox said:
Huh, interesting. I just thought she was a minor Chaos god who slipped into their Pantheon, more or less being fine since she wasn't so much worshiped as placated and Nehekara being so far south.

One more reason to read those books on Nehekara.
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It should be noted that Cython believes Sakhmet is the elven Goddess Ereth Khial, seemingly because Her relationship with Ptra and Neru pretty closely mirrors similar Asur myths about Ereth Khial, Asuryan, and Lileath. Ereth Khial is pretty straightforwardly evil but She is not considered to be of Chaos, and in fact in Canon She is explicitly opposed to Slaanesh (though that part of Her lore isn't quest-canonical). This might be an example of the dynamic Mathilde discussed with Queen Marisith in their conversation about Atharti, where a non-Chaos God with a domain very close to Chaos is believed to be challenging Chaos for that conceptual ground.
Boney said:
[...]Atharti. I believe you know Her as Vylmar."

[...]"Worship of Vylmar has been outlawed for centuries in the Empire."

She frowns. "Why?"

"He was seen as too similar to the Tempter, I believe."

Her frown deepens. "Did this forbidding banish all desire for pleasure from the Empire?"

"I don't believe it did."

"Then why cede all that ground to the Tempter?"
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Rafin said:
I mean I've felt for a long time that Ellinill takes up the place of things caused by Chaos in many of the Elven "just so" myths and historical metaphors. I know that this contradicts the myths where the Elven pantheon (including Ellinill?) specifically and clearly opposes Chaos, but when are Elven myths not contradictory?
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I think it's not just the Ellinilli. As mentioned above Atharti is also an example, and I would think that ultimate example of an elf God taking the place of things caused by Chaos while being opposed to Chaos is Khaine, who is so similar to Khorne that the two of them being the same guy is a pretty popular hersey.
 
mathymancer said:
It should be noted that Cython believes Sakhmet is the elven Goddess Ereth Khial, seemingly because Her relationship with Ptra and Neru pretty closely mirrors similar Asur myths about Ereth Khial, Asuryan, and Lileath. Ereth Khial is pretty straightforwardly evil but She is not considered to be of Chaos, and in fact in Canon She is explicitly opposed to Slaanesh (though that part of Her lore isn't quest-canonical). This might be an example of the dynamic Mathilde discussed with Queen Marisith in their conversation about Atharti, where a non-Chaos God with a domain very close to Chaos is believed to be challenging Chaos for that conceptual ground.
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Could be, but on the other hand Arathi is associated with 'hedonism' as opposed to Sakhmet's relationship with... the giant hunk of Warpstone in the sky. Call me paranoid if you will, but I think the latter is closer to the core of Chaos than the former.
 
Boney said:
There's an entire philosophical tradition and associated sociological field of research dedicated to arguing about whether colour associations are inherent or cultural, or even whether the colours we see are the same colours other people are seeing. And that's without adding in the complicating factors of magic and chaos. I don't see why the Colleges would be able to come up with a satisfying and universally agreed-upon answer to that whole much more complicated matter when our more 'advanced' society is still digesting our simpler version of that matter. I stumble across brand-new articles regularly claiming that it's only just been solved, and it's always a different set of answers than the last article that claimed it's been solved.
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It's easy to imagine that the truth is simultaneously "both" and "it's complicated".

Imagine if color associations were inherent, but also contextual. The color blue might have certain inherent associations when you are at the coast/beach, but different associations if you live in a desert. Perhaps the colors themselves are nuanced; the "blue" of an overcast day is different enough from the blue of normal water that asking someone what they associate with the color blue just begs for recency bias to butt in and subconsciously choose which blue they're thinking of.

If anything, the Colleges have it easier because there are only eight Winds rather than a nigh-infinite variation of every shade and brightness of color. The association of blue with Azyr might just be "the shade of sky-blue on a clear day", which is an easier question to answer than "all shades of blue", for example. That the Colleges also have a variety of Mage-sights that sense the Winds differently means that the association of colors with their respective Winds seems more for the sake of convenience and tradition rather than an attempt to nail down a factual truth--the Colleges know that the Winds are multifaceted and not easily described in mundane ways.

Also supporting that is how a number of the Colleges name their wind after things less associated with color--the Bright College is a great example, but there's also Celestial, Jade, Amber, Amethyst, Light, and to a lesser extent Gold. The Bright College in particular, where it associates not with a color at all but brightness itself.
 
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@Boney : The runic enchantment on our revolvers--given that it seems to function by greatly increasing the efficacy and efficiency of the black powder's burning, to the point of making them recoil substantially more, does that means they have the muzzle velocity of smokeless powder pistols? Have you decided on what the effect of the runes has for the quest, mechanically? And lastly, if we got those runes on our Marksdwarf Pistol, would that increase the effective range and accuracy of the pistol, or just its power? Could we instead use arcane enchantment on the Marksdwarf Pistol to be silent and produce no muzzle flash when fired?
 
SaltyWaffles said:
@Boney : The runic enchantment on our revolvers--given that it seems to function by greatly increasing the efficacy and efficiency of the black powder's burning, to the point of making them recoil substantially more, does that means they have the muzzle velocity of smokeless powder pistols? Have you decided on what the effect of the runes has for the quest, mechanically?
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I have not calculated the muzzle velocity of these firearms. The mechanical effect those runes have on the quest is they make the guns shoot more good.

SaltyWaffles said:
And lastly, if we got those runes on our Marksdwarf Pistol, would that increase the effective range and accuracy of the pistol, or just its power?
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It is an incredibly precise machine built around a set of known chemical and metallurgical properties. If you start changing those properties, it stops being an incredibly precise machine.

SaltyWaffles said:
Could we instead use arcane enchantment on the Marksdwarf Pistol to be silent and produce no muzzle flash when fired?
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Yes.
 
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