Because that's a totally different scenario? Mental contact with a Lord of Change is a lot more problematic than physical proximity to a Bloodthirster.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Because that's a totally different scenario? Mental contact with a Lord of Change is a lot more problematic than physical proximity to a Bloodthirster.
- Location
- Brazil
Can someone explain to me what's the upside of telling the colleges about the daemon?
Yeah, I deleted the post before you replied.
No, I would have still voted to tell him nothing. Why tell him? What does he gain from knowing
- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
Your vote is formatted incorrectly.
AzrielIlluminare
Mothman Cultist
- Pronouns
- They/Them
I'm just going to stop, because it's obvious this is going nowhere and is just making me angry.
Edited out the post for being too snide.
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- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
This is unnecessarily dismissive of other people's viewpoints and I will encourage you (and, for that matter, everyone feeling their blood pressures rise) to take a breather before we get a second mod visit in as many days.
- Location
- England, unfortunately.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Alright, suppose nothing wins
Nothing is entirely based around the idea that this is a one off event, and thus we are safe to pretend it never happened.
What if it's not?
There's any number of ways the Bird can fuck with us that don't involve 'HELLO COLLEGES, I AM THE CHANGER OF WAYS, YOUR LADY MAGISTER A SHIT WHO I HAD A CHAT WITH ONE TIME BUT HER HAT DO BE KINDA NICE THO, PEACE'.
Maybe, when we have a particularly bad time when fighting some cultist, he's over our shoulder, giving just just another little nudge of assistance, not even a mutation, but just a reward for being so interesting. Maybe one of our closest friends is on their deathbed, and he turns up and he'll give us the power to save them, no strings attached, and means it because us using that power means he already gets what he wants.
If nothing is picked, and nothing happens, nothing happens. If nothing is picked, and Tzeentch continues to try to pressure us, we're right back in this situation but worse because suddenly our research looks even more suspect as we have to explain why we didn't tell them when a Greater Daemon started giving us personal attention.
Or in other words, it's not a defence at all. It's trying to pretend that we have no problems.
Nothing is entirely based around the idea that this is a one off event, and thus we are safe to pretend it never happened.
What if it's not?
There's any number of ways the Bird can fuck with us that don't involve 'HELLO COLLEGES, I AM THE CHANGER OF WAYS, YOUR LADY MAGISTER A SHIT WHO I HAD A CHAT WITH ONE TIME BUT HER HAT DO BE KINDA NICE THO, PEACE'.
Maybe, when we have a particularly bad time when fighting some cultist, he's over our shoulder, giving just just another little nudge of assistance, not even a mutation, but just a reward for being so interesting. Maybe one of our closest friends is on their deathbed, and he turns up and he'll give us the power to save them, no strings attached, and means it because us using that power means he already gets what he wants.
If nothing is picked, and nothing happens, nothing happens. If nothing is picked, and Tzeentch continues to try to pressure us, we're right back in this situation but worse because suddenly our research looks even more suspect as we have to explain why we didn't tell them when a Greater Daemon started giving us personal attention.
Or in other words, it's not a defence at all. It's trying to pretend that we have no problems.
He can do that whether or not we tell anyone. It makes no difference whatsoever. Being trusted less by her peers probably makes Mathilde more vulnerable to this kind of manipulation or influence, as it might make them more hesitant to support her or tell her things, making it more likely to end up in a scenario where she'd be tempted to accept such assistance.
The best way to mitigate this risk is not to alienate her from her support structures, and to say nothing.
If you think the Colleges should be told about the Everchosen thing then telilng the Colleges about the Daemon means they know the source and can act accordingly. I think we should not tell the College anything, but if we do tell them then I think it does make some sense to include the fact that our hot tip about the Everbowl came from a bird.
Fair enough, in the interests of being fair @TotallyNotEvil the more compelling of the arguments that has been put forward IMO is that trusting others will inherently insulate us from Tzeench, an argument that hangs on everyone being supportive and not suspicious, but still if it happens it would indeed be helpful to have that validation
The Plan was to fuck with Mathilde's head, not to spread an infohazard through the colleges.
- Location
- Brazil
Why does them knowing the source matter? They are used to dealing with information from dubious sources.
The upside of telling about the Everchosing being nigh is that we can throw it as another dubious point on the dubious clue board, which is always treated as such.
Telling them about the daemon is a free hit to our credibility for no gain whatsoever.
As a matter of fact, here:
Or is there a hidden upside here?
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Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
Honestly we could be stabbing Tzeentch in the face, empowering Nurgle beyond all reason or be an out and out Tzeentch sorcerer and in all of those scenarios Tzeentch would claim that it was all according to plan. If Malus exploded tomorrow or the Old Ones returned and unmade chaos, he would still claim that it was all according to plan. Like, it's his thing.
This isn't about 'infohazards'. It could well be just plain vanilla disinformation or distraction. Messing with Mathilde's head doesn't have to be the be all and end all of the agenda here. Messing with Mathilde's head could well be just part of the plan, or camouflage designed to appeal to her vanity so she thinks that's she's the point of the plan rather than just a vector.
Tzeentch loves trust. After all, without trust, there could be no lies, and precious little hope.
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They are used to dealing with information from dubious sources, yes, but which dubious source the information came from is still relevant information. I'm not saying that the information is worthless without it, but it does add something.
There's also the argument for the psychological benefits of sharing this info, which you can agree or disagree with but I think is kind of superfluous if we're already sharing this with Belegar.
OK then but in that case why tell us something that is actually true and whose dissemination could in your view harm the plans of Tzeench? Why not claim that Tzeench broke into the realm of Mor to steal away Van Hall's soul for eternal torment and it is now bound into the Scepter of Zerek the Betrayer in this Chaos wastes fortress. There are lies the demon could have told to fuck with her head that work better than the truth which we know OOC
- Location
- Brazil
In this case, I'd argue it's worse knowing it's from a daemon, especially of Tzeentch, than just having it stripped of that context, as it was supposed to be judged on its own merits against what the greater aparatus is showing.
And on top of that, we are going to damage our reputation and throw a shitload of shade on AV- there is no way people in the know won't draw a line from "miraculous unfiltered juice of the warp" to "btw, just talked with a greater daemon of tzeentch".
Suddenly, we can match not one, but two of Teclis' own feats which have never before been matched by a human wizard. It's almost like magic itself is being more... helpful than it should.
We don't even need to be corrupted for our gifts to become poisoned.
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NSMS
Probably evil, unfortunately.
- Location
- A rapidly widening tear in the fabric of reality
That depends on the plan's objective. If, for example, it wants Mathilde to feel more isolated because she had an encounter with a greater demon and can't tell anybody about it? It needs to show up, and wants us to then do nothing with what it said.
Luckily, we haven't kept it a complete secret: Thorek, one of the most respected runelords in all the Karaz Ankor, has known about it for years and his apprentices have been using it ever since with no ill effects that we know of. His word that the Vitae existed long before we met the Daemon would count for a lot.
"You can't trust the people you care about, because they are raging fanatics who would condemn you for something that is out of your control, just like your parents did."
So fuck that noise, I am absolutely trusting Belegar and Algard, and I want to seek out their advice and wisdom on this scenario, as well as inform them of what we learned.
But telling people about it is what will make Mathilde more isolated, as they won't trust her as much.
After keeping the Mork possession, the Liver Mortis, and a pile of other things secret from the Colleges, keeping one more secret on top of the pile isn't going to accomplish much. Keeping secrets is literally part of Mathilde's soul, between her god and her wind.
Parabola
Divided Loyalties Librarian
- Location
- The Destination of Fate
- Pronouns
- She/Her
While I won't change my vote to it (there's very little to gain from it), I want to think that reporting Mathilde's candidacy would be met more with 'really? weird. we will keep an eye on you' rather than 'ok do we kill her?'.
This... I mean, it feels like the Grey Order would cotton on fairly quickly to how immediately jumping to that, when she has of he own will reported it, would be a great way to sour Mathilde on the Colleges. Like, that's how the song and dance goes normally. You go and tell your superiors and your superiors freak out and try to kill you, and you are sad and feel betrayed about it and run away and then maybe you end up an Everchosen anyway. The Grey College is smarter than that.
This... I mean, it feels like the Grey Order would cotton on fairly quickly to how immediately jumping to that, when she has of he own will reported it, would be a great way to sour Mathilde on the Colleges. Like, that's how the song and dance goes normally. You go and tell your superiors and your superiors freak out and try to kill you, and you are sad and feel betrayed about it and run away and then maybe you end up an Everchosen anyway. The Grey College is smarter than that.
Boney said that something like this could happen from a particularly bad miscast anyway. This won't taint AV.
Also, Mathilde is not in her best mental state right now, after having such a miscast and such a conversation with a Greater Daemon; she's clearly in a 'damage control' mindset and at least a bit traumatized. So while her knowledge of what she would and would not be expected to report is probably accurate (as it's relatively objective), I would take with a grain of salt her subjective thoughts about her acquaintances' likely reactions, which are honestly the worst case scenario.