Remove ads

Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Reader mode
Chopak said:
K8P is literally the plot of the Hobbit.
Bunch of dwarfs accompanied by the Grey Wizard, recruit halfling(s) help in reclaiming their ancestral hold, where Dragon sleeps. They have no trouble entering the Hold through Secret Dwarven Entry, but then problems arise and everything culminates in a big battle with five different armies (Expedition, Skaven, Orcs, Trolls, Dragon) taking part. In the end Dwarfs reclaim their hold and there's human settlement nearby allied with said hold.

So just take any single halfing form the expedition as pov character and you're golden.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
A somewhat fictionalized rendition of the expedition is exactly what I was thinking of when I made that comment. Mostly because it brought to mind the possibility of it being used as a bedtime story by Belegar for any future children.
Codex said:
If I remember correctly, uh, Elf lady Aragorn had a thing for, Rohan woman who kills the Witch King, Elf lady that gives Gimli the hairs and is super creepy and scary, and that's it?

I can't remember any of their names.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Arwen, Eowyn, and Galadriel, in that order.
 
Being serious, I don't think we'd ever spend our free writing action to do pure novels, but I'd be more than up to giving it a shot in omake form. I've already got a few ideas from the discussion, but I'm twisting them in a way that makes sense for Mathilde's personality and sensibilities. Deriving from her own personal experiences would make more sense than straight ripping from Tolkien's works, so instead of a Hobbit focused primarily on the Dragon and a party of Dwarves with one Halfling (and keep in mind I know very little about the Hobbit), it would be a stylised recreation of Karak Eight Peaks in fictional form.

A Grey Wizard who's finding their purpose. A king in exile hoping to retain his lost kingdom, unsure of what he truly wants for his people. A stubborn Runelord who ventures out to change the world in a way that's more acceptable to him, and finding hope in unexpected places. A group of Wizards who cling to each other and to their leader the Grey Wizard, each having left their homes for one reason or another to find themselves and finding solace in each other. A Questing Knight thrown out of her Kingdom for being who she is, and set to prove to all that she is who she says she is, a Knight. A warrior and gunner from a prestigous family line looking to prove to himself that he still has what it takes to carry his family legacy. A jaded former trader and current warrior looking to paint his name in the annals of history.

All of them work together to restore the lost hold they set out for, and find so much more than that in their new home as they find comfort in each other.

The descriptions of the characters pending in progress so Kragg doesn't charge in to strangle Mathilde in her room.
 
On the topic of gay hobbits, whist I think interpreting Sam and Frodo as in love with each other is a valid interpretation of the text, it is very much an interpretation shaped by our modern perspective, and I don't think it's the take Tolkien was trying for when he wrote them.

Rather, I think their relationship is an idealised and romanticised version of the master-servant relationship. They are the only people that they can show vulnerability to each other—Frodo can't show vulnerability to his peers because he is the landed gentry and has to put up a front of quiet English dignity, and Sam is a working class bloke who is never expected to display emotions at all. But they are around each other constantly, as their relationship as master and servant push them into a position of emotional intimacy and vulnerability. They are free to be who they are around each other, because their roles in society free them from each others judgement, and from this emotional intimacy blooms trust, understanding... and love.

But Tolkien leaves the type of love undefined—in modern english, love is a very broad term with multiple meanings. I love my parents, I love my friends, I love myself, I love this quest. Despite using the same word, the way I actually feel is slightly different. The ancient greeks had different words for this—Agape and Eros and Storge and so on, categorising love based on the relationship of the people involved.

So, do Frodo and Sam love each other? Yes, I think it's clear that they do. Are they in love, and romantically entangled? That, I feel, is up to the reader.
 
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
On the topic of gay hobbits, whist I think interpreting Sam and Frodo as in love with each other is a valid interpretation of the text, it is very much an interpretation shaped by our modern perspective, and I don't think it's the take Tolkien was trying for when he wrote them.

Rather, I think their relationship is an idealised and romanticised version of the master-servant relationship. They are the only people that they can show vulnerability to each other—Frodo can't show vulnerability to his peers because he is the landed gentry and has to put up a front of quiet English dignity, and Sam is a working class bloke who is never expected to display emotions at all. But they are around each other constantly, as their relationship as master and servant push them into a position of emotional intimacy and vulnerability. They are free to be who they are around each other, because their roles in society free them from each others judgement, and from this emotional intimacy blooms trust, understanding... and love.

But Tolkien leaves the type of love undefined—in modern english, love is a very broad term with multiple meanings. I love my parents, I love my friends, I love myself, I love this quest. Despite using the same word, the way I actually feel is slightly different. The ancient greeks had different words for this—Agape and Eros and Storge and so on, categorising love based on the relationship of the people involved.

So, do Frodo and Sam love each other? Yes, I think it's clear that they do. Are they in love, and romantically entangled? That, I feel, is up to the reader.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
My feelings on the subject are probably best summed up by Sir Ian McKellen:

"In the cast commentary, McKellen said: "When I suggested to Sean that he take Elijah's [Wood, who plays Frodo] hand... it was because I thought anyone who would care about the deep friendship (often of an innocent physical nature) ... I thought that might be missed by two resolutely heterosexual actors who might not appreciate that gay people, like myself, saw in a touch something, perhaps, more meaningful than others might."
 
If the DVD "making of" featurette for the LOTR trilogy is to be believed, Tolkien based it heavily off the relationship between a commissioned officer and his batman/orderly during WW1.
 
Altom said:
Someone needs to get out of the closet :V :stickouttongue2:
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Sure, if you were in a closet that forbid you to be emotionally expressive or verbally playful except to people you wanted sex with, your life would be sad.

This isn't a problem that Mathilde has, though. If anything she's more emotive about the dwarves and more tongue-tied about Panoramia.

In other words, you know she's interested when she loses her expressiveness around someone.
 
Last edited:
Codex said:
Being serious, I don't think we'd ever spend our free writing action to do pure novels, but I'd be more than up to giving it a shot in omake form. I've already got a few ideas from the discussion, but I'm twisting them in a way that makes sense for Mathilde's personality and sensibilities. Deriving from her own personal experiences would make more sense than straight ripping from Tolkien's works, so instead of a Hobbit focused primarily on the Dragon and a party of Dwarves with one Halfling (and keep in mind I know very little about the Hobbit), it would be a stylised recreation of Karak Eight Peaks in fictional form.

A Grey Wizard who's finding their purpose. A king in exile hoping to retain his lost kingdom, unsure of what he truly wants for his people. A stubborn Runelord who ventures out to change the world in a way that's more acceptable to him, and finding hope in unexpected places. A group of Wizards who cling to each other and to their leader the Grey Wizard, each having left their homes for one reason or another to find themselves and finding solace in each other. A Questing Knight thrown out of her Kingdom for being who she is, and set to prove to all that she is who she says she is, a Knight. A warrior and gunner from a prestigous family line looking to prove to himself that he still has what it takes to carry his family legacy. A jaded former trader and current warrior looking to paint his name in the annals of history.

All of them work together to restore the lost hold they set out for, and find so much more than that in their new home as they find comfort in each other.

The descriptions of the characters pending in progress so Kragg doesn't charge in to strangle Mathilde in her room.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I'm going to push for 'The Halfing' next turn. so we will see.

though ya, change the character a bit, and don't right out say 'its K8Ps', even if its obviously K8Ps. or that its King Belegar, even if everyone knows its King Belegar.

but make sure it has 'the Ring/Pendant/whatever' that one of the halflings found, that only in a later book to people realise what it is.

need that the plot hook :)
 
The King is clearly Thori Oakshield. Nothing at all similar to Belegar Ironhammer. His signature is a shield made of Wutroth, an heirloom given from father to son through the ages. The Halfling protagonist is Turbo Gabbins, the fastest Halfling in the Moot, excited for adventure and wants to leave his boring ass farm for some real fun!
 
Codex said:
The King is clearly Thori Oakshield. Nothing at all similar to Belegar Ironhammer. His signature is a shield made of Wutroth, an heirloom given from father to son through the ages. The Halfling protagonist is Turbo Gabbins, the fastest Halfling in the Moot, excited for adventure and wants to leave his boring ass farm for some real fun!
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

As a note here Thorin in the Hobbit did not actually have a special shield, he was called that because at one point he lost his shield and used an oak branch in place of one to ward off a blow that would have killed him.

If you already knew the above and just liked the idea of a Wuroth shield ignore the above, I just wanted to make a note of it in case you had not read into it. I always thought it was a cool name because it did not reference an object he had, but something he did, which was a prelude to him becoming his best self only after he got over the gold madness and acted as a king in the battle.
 
You are ignoring content by this member.
Is the Hobbit already in Warhammer? I remember reading somewhere that Grom the Paunch ate a Grey Wizard, a Halfling and a company of dwarves at the Misty Mountain.
 
Mathrafal said:
Is the Hobbit already in Warhammer? I remember reading somewhere that Grom the Paunch ate a Grey Wizard, a Halfling and a company of dwarves at the Misty Mountain.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The Fellowship are a thing, and Misty Mountains is a thing and were Grom the Paunch came from, but at least in Modern (6th+ ED) Warhammer Grom was defeated by Eltharion the Grim and there was nothing about a group of Dwarves or anything.

By the way, for being one of the silliest rivalries in Warhammer, Total War managed to make Eltharion vs Grom absolutely rad:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbNHE0OrCDA

The batman references help sell it.
 
Mathrafal said:
Is the Hobbit already in Warhammer? I remember reading somewhere that Grom the Paunch ate a Grey Wizard, a Halfling and a company of dwarves at the Misty Mountain.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Grom's from the Misty Mountain, but I haven't heard any of the rest.

I could easily just be ignorant, though, Grom's a pretty old character. I've been told back in the pre-4th edition days, his his main rival was a Dwarf he had a drinking contest with.
 
Codex said:
Elf lady that gives Gimli the hairs and is super creepy and scary,
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
In the book, she isn't actually creepy, and not that scary. Among most humans, she has an in-universe reputation not unlike the Asrai, but she's very nice. She committed enough mistakes in her 7000 years of existence to learn her lessons.

Codex said:
The batman references help sell it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
What's the Batman reference?
 
Last edited:
Codex said:
The Fellowship are a thing, and Misty Mountains is a thing and were Grom the Paunch came from, but at least in Modern (6th+ ED) Warhammer Grom was defeated by Eltharion the Grim and there was nothing about a group of Dwarves or anything.

By the way, for being one of the silliest rivalries in Warhammer, Total War managed to make Eltharion vs Grom absolutely rad:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbNHE0OrCDA

The batman references help sell it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

You've got Batman references on Eltharion's side, and then on Grom's, you've got shot-for-shot recreations of scenes from Mad Max: Fury Road.
 
Codex said:
I've been thinking about something, since I've been thinking about people in canon who survived the Aethyr. In Total War Warhammer, there is a line that says "few Lizardmen have killed as many daemons as Oxyotl, their most deadly assassin". Now, that makes sense, Oxyotl was teleported into the Aethyr during the Great Catastrophe during -5500-4400 IC area and he came back to the mortal realm around 2519 IC. It could have been just a few years for him, but who knows how many years passed in the technically 7000 years he was in there. It did make me start thinking. Skinks aren't supposed to live very long, they turn ancient around 100 years old. Did being in the Aethyr extend his lifespand? or was it that he never aged while he was in the Aethyr?

He's a Lizardmen, so I doubt he was infected or corrupted by Daemonic energies. The guy was so much of a madlad that he dared use Daemonic Secretions in his poisons to kill Daemons, and somehow stayed uncorrupted when he came back to the mortal realm. Although he is very quiet about his experiences, which, fair. That sounds like trauma even for someone as mentally resilient as a Lizardman.

I really wish there were more details on Oxyotl. I don't like how there are all these cool concepts in Warhammer that only ever get such small blurbs about them and are never expanded on. It really would have helped to know about what the experiences of someone living through the Warp were like. Also, he might be one of the oldest living characters in Warhammer that aren't the Slaan, even though his experiences are pretty unorthodox.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Well, not all warp experiences are made equal. Or for the matter, the potent daemon concentration being very high. Our dude here probably had a much less lethal time, though not without its trials.

Though for all we know he spent basically no subjective time in there before being thrown into a world where nothing remains of anyone he knew.
 
Mopman43 said:
Grom's from the Misty Mountain, but I haven't heard any of the rest.

I could easily just be ignorant, though, Grom's a pretty old character. I've been told back in the pre-4th edition days, his his main rival was a Dwarf he had a drinking contest with.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
You've got it better than me. I barely bother with pre 6th aside from Dogs of War. I've been skimming stuff from older editions but I'm pretty ignorant in that field too.
DragonParadox said:
As a note here Thorin in the Hobbit did not actually have a special shield, he was called that because at one point he lost his shield and used an oak branch in place of one to ward off a blow that would have killed him.

If you already knew the above and just liked the idea of a Wuroth shield ignore the above, I just wanted to make a note of it in case you had not read into it. I always thought it was a cool name because it did not reference an object he had, but something he did, which was a prelude to him becoming his best self only after he got over the gold madness and acted as a king in the battle.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I had no idea about that. Again, I don't Hobbit. I'll figure out how I'll do it when the muse hits. I'm very hit and run with writing.
 
Codex said:
You've got it better than me. I barely bother with pre 6th aside from Dogs of War. I've been skimming stuff from older editions but I'm pretty ignorant in that field too.

I had no idea about that. Again, I don't Hobbit. I'll figure out how I'll do it when the muse hits. I'm very hit and run with writing.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I read through the 4th edition Magic book the other day and it was interesting. Lot of spells that haven't shown up later of course, and Ulgu had a weather theme. I think Shyish might have had the most spells that are still around.

Some spells actually changed lores- Dwellers Below was a Hysh spell, Awakening of the Wood was Ghur, and Transformation of Kadon was Dhar.

Also, you know how you mentioned that Pit of Shades wasn't a save-or-die in 6th edition? In 4th edition, there was a spell Pit of Tarnus that was a save-or-die (though it was S instead of I).

Found it funny how that one ping-ponged.
 
Codex said:
I had no idea about that. Again, I don't Hobbit. I'll figure out how I'll do it when the muse hits. I'm very hit and run with writing.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The only other thing I would point out is that Bilbo was very much not the adventure sort at the start of the story and was dragged along against his will until about halfway through the story.

but I actually like the idea of Turbo Gabbins starting off as a radical Halfling, only to learn the value of settling down with a family and farm while Thori Oakshield starts the book as a very conservatives dwarf unhappy with all the help he has to look to form non-dwarfs and un-dwarfy tactics only to become a bit more open (for a dwarf, don't what to cause a scandal for our friend) to new ideas as he makes friends and learns to truest is odd new subjects and allies.)

the books don't have to be right up copies of the originals after all, and should fit the setting.

Also, A book where the main characters are a dwarf king and a Halfling framer and the humans are largely part of the supporting cast would defyingly be novel (pun) in the empire and works well with mathys Xeno-Affinity.
 
Last edited:
K von Carstein said:
What's the Batman reference?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The "where is he?" is a reference to the Christopher Nolan Batman movies at the beginning, followed by the joker like laughing from the Goblins. The framing, atmosphere and general vibe of the Eltharion sections and his general demeanour focusing on the City (which is funny because he's in charge of more than that) gives heavy Gotham vibes. I can't remember if Batman outright says "this city will never be safe, not whilst he's still out there" or "as long as I still live, Tor Yvresse (Gotham) shall never fall!". The brooding looks across the city and the billowing cape gives extra points.
 
Jyn Ryvia said:
Thori Oakshield start the book as a very conservatives dwarf unhappy with all the help he has to look to form non-dwarfs and un-dwarfly tactics only to become a bit more open (or a dwarf, don't what to cause a sandal for our friend) to new ideas as makes friends and learns to truest is odd new subjects and allies.)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Another idea is to have him have become a priest of Gazul in the duration of having to leave behind his kingdom. Would also handily explain why he uses a sword in the story.
 
Boney said:
BOOKSHELF IN MATHILDE'S BEDROOM

Romance +11 - Extensive Imperial / Bretonnian / Dwarven / Extensive Eonir / Extensive Druchii / Extensive and Obscure Skaven
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Wait, are these just... out on an open bookshelf in Mathilde's room? So Pan knows we have a lot of Dark Elf and Skaven romantic fiction? (Obviously not the vulgar stuff, that's hidden in the restricted section(or maybe she knows about that too?)).

What's Pan's opinion on it?
 
I'd like to think that the Druchii's version of "overly vulgar" is some fairly tame stuff like handholding and blushing and cute dates with a couple sharing the same milkshake. Absolutely depraved.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top