Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
That was in one of the posts he just quoted.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
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- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Right. Point is, there's this pattern that keeps repeating everywhere and is always vague in specifics but has the same general meaning. Namely that all female magic orders exist and they think letting men use their thing (whether it be magic in general or their specific kind of it) will lead to problems of tremendous proportions.
@The Phoenixian to make it tie into Warrior of Fog more, what about... making the spell be about distracting an enemy from a soldier's or army's movements?
Via the shell game trick as a framing mechanism.
i.e. You present 3 locations where a person or army squad might be. Or 3 possible routes that a person or army might take. And then you go: "So which one is it?"/"Which path am I going to take?" And the enemy is confused and they are forced to try to guess the location you are at/path you will take/stratagem you will use/weapon/whatever; instead of being free to spend their time doing something more useful or productive.
And meanwhile, you have the rest of your army or some other person, go do something important somewhere else. While they are stuck focusing on this individual or group in this one place.
Via the shell game trick as a framing mechanism.
i.e. You present 3 locations where a person or army squad might be. Or 3 possible routes that a person or army might take. And then you go: "So which one is it?"/"Which path am I going to take?" And the enemy is confused and they are forced to try to guess the location you are at/path you will take/stratagem you will use/weapon/whatever; instead of being free to spend their time doing something more useful or productive.
And meanwhile, you have the rest of your army or some other person, go do something important somewhere else. While they are stuck focusing on this individual or group in this one place.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
Is this not strictly worse than a fog the enemy can't see through, which doesn't involve giving your opponent a big hint about what you're doing?
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Z000
If this is trash, then find me in the dumpster
- Location
- Viet Nam
honestly, i wish that all those prophecy to some how produce a Bretonian Dark Ice Mage
- Location
- USA
Did someone at GW read too much Wheel of Time or something?
- Location
- Utrecht
I thought this would be the case.. But i got inspired by the similar spell posted above and it wouldn't let me drop it. (ironic given the spell in Question
) Then it morphed into its own thing and grew some more, way beyond the scope of typical warhammer magic.
And by then it had become an effort post, so it seemed wrong to not post it.
So i slapped a name on it to attract tone traveling students and pitched it anyway.
Codex
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I made a Roswita statblock for WHFB:
Troop Type: Infantry (Special Character)
Special Rules: Stubborn, Hatred (Undead, Nehekharan Undead), Hold the Line!
Leader's Grim Resolve: Roswita and any unit she joins automatically succeed on Fear tests, and treat Terror as Fear. Roswita and her unit may not automatically succeed on this Leadership test. Roswita and her unit may reroll failed Break tests against units with the Undead or Nehekharan Undead special rule.
Pride and Prejudice: Roswita has to take a Fear test whenever she is in base contact with a model with the Wizard special rule at the start of the Close Combat phase. She may not automatically succeed on this test. However, Roswita has Hatred against all units with the Wizard special rule. This Hatred is special and allows for rerolling to hit rolls every round of Close Combat rather than just the first.
Bane of the Undead: All friendly Imperial units under Roswita's leadership may take Hatred (Undead) and/or Hatred (Nehekharan Undead) with an additional point cost. In addition, before deployment, the player who uses Roswita as the leading General may roll a D6 for every enemy unit with the Undead or Nehekharan Undead special rules. On the roll of a 6, they do not deploy normally. Instead they arrive as Reinforcements during the Movement Phase of their first turn.
Magic Items:
Runefang of Stirland: This magical weapon automatically wounds on a hit and ignores armor saves. In addition, Roswita can use the Stirland Runefang and her Boarding Axe as Paired Weapons.
Legacy of the Van Hals: The Van Hal's burden is incredibly heavy, and no one person can hold it all on their shoulders. The hopes and dreams of the many Van Hals across history are bound into this amulet, an heirloom and treasure passed from parent to child over the last 1400 years. This Talisman grants Roswita Magic Resistance (3) and the ability to channel Dispel dice as if she was a Wizard. In addition, all Undead and Nehekharan Undead within 12" receive one more wound from the Unstable special rule than they normally would.
Equipment:
Weapons: Runefang and Boarding Axe (Hand Weapon). Repeater Pistol (12" range. Armor Piercing. Strength 4. Multiple Shots (3). Quick to Fire).
Armor: Full Plate Armor (4+ Armor Save). Legacy of the Van Hals (Talisman)
Mount: Roswita may be mounted on a Warhorse (that can be barded) at an additional points cost, turning her into a Cavalry unit.
I made a few choices that I've had to really think about. I modified the Witch Hunter's Grim Resolve ability to fit a position as a leader, and I didn't give her Immune to Psychology because I don't think it fits (she fights on despite being scared, but she's not immune to it).
Pride and Prejudice is a stupid reference but I'm proud of it. Bane of the Undead is Skarsnik's Sneaky Schemes special ability but only working on Undead. I had no idea how to appropriately portray her tactics against the Undead so I just did this even though theoretically it doesn't fit a lot. It's hard to portray economic warfare ok.
The Talisman of the Van Hals is a custom magic item that we have absolutely no indication that Roswita has, but I had a fluffy concept in my head of Abelhelm giving Roswita an heirloom to protect her that could very well have saved him in Sylvania but he wanted his child to grow up safe and happy instead, so I made it. It's all non-canonical anyway, so why not have fun.
| M | WS | BS | S | T | W | I | A | Ld |
| 4 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 3 | 6 | 3 | 9 |
Special Rules: Stubborn, Hatred (Undead, Nehekharan Undead), Hold the Line!
Leader's Grim Resolve: Roswita and any unit she joins automatically succeed on Fear tests, and treat Terror as Fear. Roswita and her unit may not automatically succeed on this Leadership test. Roswita and her unit may reroll failed Break tests against units with the Undead or Nehekharan Undead special rule.
Pride and Prejudice: Roswita has to take a Fear test whenever she is in base contact with a model with the Wizard special rule at the start of the Close Combat phase. She may not automatically succeed on this test. However, Roswita has Hatred against all units with the Wizard special rule. This Hatred is special and allows for rerolling to hit rolls every round of Close Combat rather than just the first.
Bane of the Undead: All friendly Imperial units under Roswita's leadership may take Hatred (Undead) and/or Hatred (Nehekharan Undead) with an additional point cost. In addition, before deployment, the player who uses Roswita as the leading General may roll a D6 for every enemy unit with the Undead or Nehekharan Undead special rules. On the roll of a 6, they do not deploy normally. Instead they arrive as Reinforcements during the Movement Phase of their first turn.
Magic Items:
Runefang of Stirland: This magical weapon automatically wounds on a hit and ignores armor saves. In addition, Roswita can use the Stirland Runefang and her Boarding Axe as Paired Weapons.
Legacy of the Van Hals: The Van Hal's burden is incredibly heavy, and no one person can hold it all on their shoulders. The hopes and dreams of the many Van Hals across history are bound into this amulet, an heirloom and treasure passed from parent to child over the last 1400 years. This Talisman grants Roswita Magic Resistance (3) and the ability to channel Dispel dice as if she was a Wizard. In addition, all Undead and Nehekharan Undead within 12" receive one more wound from the Unstable special rule than they normally would.
Equipment:
Weapons: Runefang and Boarding Axe (Hand Weapon). Repeater Pistol (12" range. Armor Piercing. Strength 4. Multiple Shots (3). Quick to Fire).
Armor: Full Plate Armor (4+ Armor Save). Legacy of the Van Hals (Talisman)
Mount: Roswita may be mounted on a Warhorse (that can be barded) at an additional points cost, turning her into a Cavalry unit.
Pride and Prejudice is a stupid reference but I'm proud of it. Bane of the Undead is Skarsnik's Sneaky Schemes special ability but only working on Undead. I had no idea how to appropriately portray her tactics against the Undead so I just did this even though theoretically it doesn't fit a lot. It's hard to portray economic warfare ok.
The Talisman of the Van Hals is a custom magic item that we have absolutely no indication that Roswita has, but I had a fluffy concept in my head of Abelhelm giving Roswita an heirloom to protect her that could very well have saved him in Sylvania but he wanted his child to grow up safe and happy instead, so I made it. It's all non-canonical anyway, so why not have fun.
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- Location
- [REDACTED]- United States of America
Hey if that skaven's pointing a ratling gun at you then I think performing brainsurgery with a cannon is fair game.
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I'm going back over the stuff I wrote and:
Creating a single snippet comes easy. It's making an overarching story that overwhelmed me. I know what it should look like! But I can't even write it. It's such a weird feeling.
The big part that gets me is that I'm not good at writing fight scenes. I don't know if you guys noticed, but I tend to be very brief when I write fight scenes, trying to skim over them to get into the parts that I (think) I'm good at. I've never been able to make fight scenes feel organic and natural while also making them entertaining. Anybody have any good advice for that?
The 1 here haunts me. It's not that I don't want to make a sequel to this, it's just that I got the worst case of writer's block on how to proceed.
Creating a single snippet comes easy. It's making an overarching story that overwhelmed me. I know what it should look like! But I can't even write it. It's such a weird feeling.
The big part that gets me is that I'm not good at writing fight scenes. I don't know if you guys noticed, but I tend to be very brief when I write fight scenes, trying to skim over them to get into the parts that I (think) I'm good at. I've never been able to make fight scenes feel organic and natural while also making them entertaining. Anybody have any good advice for that?
Burned_Cookie
Very tired girl.
- Location
- Plato´s cave.
- Pronouns
- She/Her/It/Its
Abandon sanity and go for full rule of cool. This is Warhammer, nobody will mind if you push SoD a little to make the fight scenes more over the top.
Tasoli
Life is for Living
- Location
- Behind the Keyboard.
Write them like conversations is the first method I suggest. Most of time the specifics of the fight does not matter provided you don't make an over the top action that needs to be sold to reader*. Rest of the time focus on the what characters are saying each other either with their words, body language or their actions and how it effects them and is effected by the surroundings in turns.
*(That is another way. See Kul camp fight)
Generally speaking more you describe something more readers will focus on it so figure out what you want to tell in that scene write that alongside the just enough details to give some contex.
Of course you could cheat and find some fight scenes you like in other stories and adapt some parts to your own scene. Here and now in an omake I would go to my favorite fight scenes of Mathilde and see how they work.
Here;
This is the start of the fight and yet there is very interesting conversation which is the focus of it, the details given about the room in truth rather sparse aside from the lectern that Alkharad was huncing over there is no mention about the room he is in because it is not the focus. Focus is on the characters and this character is talker.
Again note that focus is still on the characters and their words.
Finally ultraviolance where charaters stopped talking but note it is not described step by step but rather the result which is not only the important bit but this also ups the pacing. Giving the reader impression that it was so fast that it become blink and miss.
Yet a return to conversation. Actions happen and they are mentioned but they are not really described. Now don't get me wrong some description here could have created a far more vivid scene but since this it a fight with a vampire speed therefore pacing is more important which is why this works. If there was a Naval battle going on captains would have time react since those actions happen minutes to hours time you could slow down and describe the scene more thoughtly. (I know sci-fi likes to get bridge crew shout to make things more exciting but I always rolled my eyes to it. But that is a stylistic choice.)
Again note, two sentences of description of what is happening followed by continuing conversation. What they are saying is barely related to fight at hand to boot. It is more of a conversation starter really.
And the ending of the fight. Where we see both sides do one attack each and results. Then the scene goes on to little epiloge where Alkharad spouts some info and transition away.
Notice how little of it is actual fight? Yet this is my favorite.
Ofcourse counterpart to this is Snowstorming the Kul camp. Where there is little conversation and it is rather more description heavy. I suggest you go re-read it aswell and see where they differ and which one is the one you want. Both are impressive fights and valid to learn from.
I hope this helps.
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consequences
Not A Nice Person At All
- Location
- Jerkville
I guess the follow up question before I drop the subject would therefore be: Has anyone on the dawi side figured out that they might in fact be able to counterbattery Ratling guns specifically with indiscriminate Runepriest counterspelling? Or does Warpstone's comparatively stable-ish nature mean that you actually need the precision for it to be worthwhile as opposed to just blasting them with Anvil Lightning?
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
Er, you can't counterspell Warpstone? That's not a thing.
There's (theoretically) the Second Secret, but that's a whole different ballgame.
Closest thing I can think of is the Necromancy spell to send a fake dream to a Dreamwalker.
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If Boney is interested, here is the exact description of the spell:
Casting Number: 15
Casting Time: 1 minute
Duration: Instant
Range: Five miles
Ingredient: A stick of incense (+2)
Description: The target of the spell, whom the caster must have seen at least once, dreams about the Undead the next time he sleeps. The caster may determine the broad content of the dream, but cannot fix the details. The target may be included in the dream, performing a particular action, and the caster may also choose to have the target associate a particular location and time with the dream. The spell can be used simply to give people nightmares, as dreams of the Undead are rarely pleasant, but it is most often used to mislead people with falsely prophetic dreams, hence the name.
Casting Time: 1 minute
Duration: Instant
Range: Five miles
Ingredient: A stick of incense (+2)
Description: The target of the spell, whom the caster must have seen at least once, dreams about the Undead the next time he sleeps. The caster may determine the broad content of the dream, but cannot fix the details. The target may be included in the dream, performing a particular action, and the caster may also choose to have the target associate a particular location and time with the dream. The spell can be used simply to give people nightmares, as dreams of the Undead are rarely pleasant, but it is most often used to mislead people with falsely prophetic dreams, hence the name.
The source for this spell is Shades of Empire 2E WFRP. Page 37.
This spell isn't exclusively done to Dreamwalkers, it can work on anyone as long as you've seen them. It's Necromancy exclusive.
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I personally am not really that much of a fan of written action for its own sake, so outside of the rare times I can vividly picture a scene I don't try to make the action itself the focus. Instead I use the action as a means to an end. If the fight is against someone that isn't a major part of the story, then I usually use it as an opportunity to give the reader an insight into either the protagonist or who they're fighting alongside - most obviously a display of their skill level, but also a look at how they act during a fight and how they react to the events unfolding. The duel in Norsca is a good example of this - there wasn't much mileage in whoever the Norscan champion would be as the group had only been introduced shortly before and were unlikely to be relevant to the story for long, so I put the focus on Asarnil, showing off not just his skill level but also his pride, his disdain, and a bit of his religious beliefs. If the fight is against an established character, then I treat the combat as an interplay between characters. As @Tasoli so thoroughly and gratifyingly explored, the duel between Mathilde and Alkharad is an example of this.
Similar dynamics apply to larger-scale combat. It can be harder to keep track of so many moving parts, but the scale of it gives you the opportunity to choose what the spotlight will be on and having so many characters involved means there's almost always something juicy to be found. It also allows you to make the combat the terrain that characters try to navigate to achieve their objectives, instead of an obstacle that must be overcome to get back to pursuing their objectives. When possible I try to make it so that there's objectives and opportunities in large battles beyond simply winning.
Interestingly, the quest format transforms the normal dynamics of writing action scenes in some fairly unique ways. Some people don't like that the action is dictated by random chance instead of being chosen and crafted by the author for maximum narrative impact, but I find it very compelling that the results are in the hands of fate instead of author fiat. A writing format like this can make it hard to suspend disbelief because everyone who's voting and debating is elbow deep in the mechanics of the story instead of passively watching it unfold, but action scenes dictated by dice don't need suspension of disbelief to get invested in. Unless you suspect the QM of fiddling the dice, that is - which is part of why I roll major dice in a way that can't be fiddled. The challenge is in writing something that works well both 'live' when the active questers don't know what's about to happen, and also during a reread when you have to make the vagaries of fate work convincingly in-universe.
The effect is too contained and short-lived to be disrupted at range like conventional magic can be, the 'spell' is extremely basic and only lasts an instant at a time. By the time the bullet leaves the barrel all that's acting on it is physics. A Runepriest at very close range might be able to prevent a Ratling Gun from firing, but at that range a crossbow would do the job too.
- Location
- Greece
Engineers once more prove superior to runesmiths !!!
Codex
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Orcs and Goblins 6th Edition said something that made me blink and do a double take, but that I found quite interesting:
"Orcs continue to grow bigger throughout their lives. How big they get has nothing to do with how much or what they eat, but more to do with their status. The more important they get the bigger they grow and the tougher and more important they become. Only when an Orc runs up against a bigger, tougher and meaner boss Orc who firmly puts him in his place does he stop growing." Page 11
This is so bizarre. Orcs grow in size proportional to their importance, and only stop growing in size when another Orc puts them in their place. But what if there isn't an Orc to put them in place? What happens when you're top of the pile? Clearly there has to be an upper limit to size, because I don't think there are any Giant sized Orcs running around.
"Orcs continue to grow bigger throughout their lives. How big they get has nothing to do with how much or what they eat, but more to do with their status. The more important they get the bigger they grow and the tougher and more important they become. Only when an Orc runs up against a bigger, tougher and meaner boss Orc who firmly puts him in his place does he stop growing." Page 11
This is so bizarre. Orcs grow in size proportional to their importance, and only stop growing in size when another Orc puts them in their place. But what if there isn't an Orc to put them in place? What happens when you're top of the pile? Clearly there has to be an upper limit to size, because I don't think there are any Giant sized Orcs running around.
- Location
- Germany
Just saying, there is a reason Morrsleib is green.
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- Location
- Utrecht
Also, the growth does not have to be fast, or linear.
It could be a Logarithmic curve that slows, but never quite becomes asymptoticc to the x-axis.
The most important orc could grow 1cm in a century... assuming he lives that long.
The way Orc society works, there probably isn't a top of the pile for them - as a Warboss, you fight until you're killed, if not by fellow greenskins, then by other factions during a WAAAGH that you inevitably lead on the civilized world when you're done fighting fellow greenskins.
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There is this scenario that I've been chewing on actually:
The text says that size is proportional to importance. You keep growing as you become more important. But if you stay at the same "level of importance" then it's going to start fading. Orcs aren't known for their long term memory and stability, so chances are that if you're important, you have to keep doing greater and greater deeds to prove and strengthen your importance, which in turn increases your importance, strength and size.
The logical conclusion of that is establishing a Waaagh, collecting Greenskins from across the globe into your army and charging into a place to prove yourself. With every victory you grow more important, stronger and bigger.
But the more you win, the more attention you attract, which inevitably leads to your death because the nature of the Waaagh is that it doesn't stop until the leader is dead, so it's possible that the "most important orc" does exist, but only when a Waaagh is called, and those Waaaghs don't tend to last even a decade.
- Location
- Brazil
Then you get the ones that punk Everchosens?
I think what happens is that they run into another Waaghboss with an army of similar size they can't beat (even if they're bigger in a duel), and they stalemate each other. You're clearly not the biggest and the most important if you have a rival. So two orcs could mutually "put each other in their place", their place being not above each other.
Let's be precise here: You get Orks who nut Everchosen. I feel having the exact formulation here is important.
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