- Pronouns
- Zack
The game master said if it is in this turn or the next that we have to do a diplomacy action with the Thalya?
Vox Vitae: Warhammer AI quest
- Thread starter Neablis
- Start date
- Mature Sci-Fi
- Location
- Somewhere Beyond the Sea
We're kind of already sowing the first seeds of - if not outright sedition, then atleast dissent amongst select groups of Mechanicus personnel by leaving those little puzzles and free samples of knowledge, given enough time and a big enough carrot, I forsee there being some instibilities that we can exploit.
Next turn.
Next turn.
I'm concerned that Thalya would smell a rat if the extremely reclusive Explorator suddenly starts asking her about local politics.
- Pronouns
- Zack
The problem is that someone started deleting them
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Then we don't ask her, we do some hacking around the databases and noosphere
Or enemy void BP to ground BP! It's a multidirectional conversion platform.
The ability to scale your industry is pretty much what you earned from doing the Aevon diplomacy, and you do need to do it at some point.
And I'll say this much, diplomacy actions take the longest to write. I might need to take a couple of days for the next 2-diplo turn. 8k words is not really one day of writing.
I think there's still some confusion around this. Basically, every other turn Thalya wants a report. I will allow you to do that as a free action but then you have no chance to improve things and a higher chance of everything getting worse. Basically roll a die and anything worse than 35 is very bad, anything better maintains status quo.
If you spend an action on it then you can combine it with other attempts at diplomacy/subversion/infiltration as you like, and have the chance to improve relations.
Fair enough, although I'd prefer to dig into Thalya first. We'll be interacting with her a lot, and our files on her are incomplete.
I'd recommend that we take the action next turn with the aim of improving relations. No matter what route we take with the Mechanicus, it should become significantly easier if our main Mechanicus point of contact mistrusts us less.
- Pronouns
- Zack
So does anyone have any idea what we say to Anexa?
- Pronouns
- He/Him
We either do that, or build up enough of an army so we can just bum rush the Enclaves and get cloaked shuttles of Heavy Robots inside before they even have the time to react with nukes.
It's not a strong preference - just a comment that it's a lot to write. There's a good chance that next turn you'll want to do another Anexa action + a mechanicus action, and that would be fine.
- Location
- Australia
Maybe, but that risks a lot on their WMD response times' lagging. And I'd be shocked if they didn't have dead-man switches built in to ensure that even if their command structure was totally decapitated (which is by no means a guarantee), the WMDs would be launched both to deny the Mechanicus bases/enclaves themselves and the entire planet to an enemy, regardless of the cost to any other humans living here.
Not to mention direct hostile contact/combat with the Mechanicus which would likely heavily rely on robotic forces unless we conduct it through human intermediaries/proxies (who would undoubtedly experience heavy casualties even if well-armed and trained by us), exponentially increases the likelihood that the Mechanicus realises we are an "Abominable Intelligence" in the worse possible context (actively attacking them and, in their eyes, "subverting" the local human polities towards our own ends) - which if they so much as faintly suspect, they will see the danger we pose (both to their positions over power and more existentially to humanity) by existing - let alone directly attacking them - as more than ample justification to mass-deploy WMDs to destroy not just us but any humans we might have "corrupted" or "enthralled" (i.e., almost certainly everyone else but themselves, and even then different Mechanicus factions would likely seek to purge each other out of preemptive suspicion or in opportunistic power grabs).
In other words, if they know or suspect we are AI, there is a strong likelihood they will try to preemptively "salt the earth" and deliberately destroy as much of the planet's habitability and as many of its non-Mechanicus (and probably a significant proportion of its Mechanicus) inhabitants as possible - not just as a "grim necessity" but as a righteous obligation and holy moral imperative, even if it threatens their own survival or vivability.
Diplomacy and subversion through social influence and dialogue are probably our best and by far most reliable means of neutralising the threat of the (local) Mechanicus, and even turning them into a beneficial asset for the wider populace and ourselves. Afterall, even with our automation/robot/AI advantages and complete (although dated) STC database - they are still the best source of advanced materials, technology, machines, infrastructure, and (relatively) trained personnel available, which could do a lot to accelerate our plans in trade for even non-weaponisable STCs or STC fragments with extremely minor utility, (we don't necessarily need to trade even complete STC copies - technoarcheology is a nigh-perfect excuse for find only partial remnants).
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We could also just... leave. Once we get beyond high orbit there is fuck all the Denva ad mech can do about us. Get Vita's core into space, get some building capacity and just sit on a rock processing minerals until we can make a ship. That would admittedly be kind of boring so how about this: We build the lift capacity to throw our core into space and then continue ground based work. That way the worst case scenario is no longer game over, but a loss of production capacity.
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Some ideas have already been thrown out. I'll plug mine if you don't mind shameless self-promotion:
- Location
- Australia
I like it, although I think we might want to tie how our (lack of) belief in the Omnissiah is drawn from our Quest for Knowledge more directly/explicitly - and furthermore encourage her to draw her own conclusions about the Omnissiah using the scientific method to discover the Truth. Maybe something like:
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I would not put it past the ad mech to have nukes that do not use electricity somehow.
Also more prosaically shielding
The more I think about it the more sense it makes to just put ourselves in space and then if we need to deal with them we can just orbital bombard as necessary. Sure they might have some ground to space capacity left from the Imperial says, but they surely have less of it than weapons that can hit the planet. Once we are off this rock we can out-build them.
I do not think a Krieg style 'nuke the planet anyway' action is in the cards because if the people at the buttons were the sort to do that they would have done it when House Denva fell. They are not going to kill the locals unless they are seen as allied with us.
meianmaru
The Devourer of Fiction
Reasoning found in the following post:
[X] Plan: Exponential Growth Approaching
-[X] [Free] Poke around some more in the databases, looking for anything in particular.
--[X] What is this "Inquisition" that got mentioned in relation to Thalya? The name is already pretty indicative (and oh boy does it give you some bad vibes), but what are the specifics of their role in the Imperium?
-[X] Diplomacy (Mentorship for Anexa): "Correct. Yet, paradoxically, I'm learned in the secrets of technology and more. Without ever having studied under anyone from the Mechanicus. If you figure out even part of the truth behind me, I will be even more impressed than I already am with you. Here is your hint: Because for me, most of them never were secrets to begin with." See if Anexa can guess either you being an "Ancient" or actually figuring out you are an AI. Even if she does not, reveal the existence of your crashed ship, and part of your origin. Let her walk in the remains of the ship itself, and show some of your datalogs. Texts, videos, holograms (the echoes of their ghots walking inside your halls). What life was back then. Exploring the unknown. Your crew (how it hurts to think about them). The absence of worship for the Machine God. The curiosity towards both the principles on which the universe worked, as well as alien technologies. Sometimes found in ruins, sometimes from the aftermath of a bloody battle with them, sometimes peacefully traded. And how both the found principles and alien artifacts, or just straight out technical manuals bought from traders, were used to iterate, and yes, invent new technologies for humanity. Which then were used to fill up the libraries of the STCs in the first place. Afterwards, if she still hasn't found out that you are an AI, ask her to study your ship and the datalogs, leading her towards the truth about your nature.
-[X] Construction x3 (1400 GBP = 300 + 450 + 650)
--[X] 1st construction slot (300 BP):
---[X] Manufactory (100 BP, 50 CP) x3
--[X] 2nd construction slot (450 BP):
---[X] Manufactory (100 BP, 50 CP) x4
---[X] Trade goods (50 BP) (Trade good, stored: 5 -> 55)
--[X] 3rd construction slot (650 BP):
---[X] Manufactory (100 BP, 50 CP) x2
---[X] Anti-Air Defenses, underground (aboveground base) (75 BP, 5 CP) x 4
---[X] Psychic Shielding: 85/100 (repair for 10 BP/point) (150 BP) -> 100/100
--[X] Pay rent (Trade goods, stored: 55 -> 30)
Anyway, here is the actual plan:
[X] Plan: Exponential Growth Approaching
-[X] [Free] Poke around some more in the databases, looking for anything in particular.
--[X] What is this "Inquisition" that got mentioned in relation to Thalya? The name is already pretty indicative (and oh boy does it give you some bad vibes), but what are the specifics of their role in the Imperium?
-[X] Diplomacy (Mentorship for Anexa): "Correct. Yet, paradoxically, I'm learned in the secrets of technology and more. Without ever having studied under anyone from the Mechanicus. If you figure out even part of the truth behind me, I will be even more impressed than I already am with you. Here is your hint: Because for me, most of them never were secrets to begin with." See if Anexa can guess either you being an "Ancient" or actually figuring out you are an AI. Even if she does not, reveal the existence of your crashed ship, and part of your origin. Let her walk in the remains of the ship itself, and show some of your datalogs. Texts, videos, holograms (the echoes of their ghots walking inside your halls). What life was back then. Exploring the unknown. Your crew (how it hurts to think about them). The absence of worship for the Machine God. The curiosity towards both the principles on which the universe worked, as well as alien technologies. Sometimes found in ruins, sometimes from the aftermath of a bloody battle with them, sometimes peacefully traded. And how both the found principles and alien artifacts, or just straight out technical manuals bought from traders, were used to iterate, and yes, invent new technologies for humanity. Which then were used to fill up the libraries of the STCs in the first place. Afterwards, if she still hasn't found out that you are an AI, ask her to study your ship and the datalogs, leading her towards the truth about your nature.
-[X] Construction x3 (1400 GBP = 300 + 450 + 650)
--[X] 1st construction slot (300 BP):
---[X] Manufactory (100 BP, 50 CP) x3
--[X] 2nd construction slot (450 BP):
---[X] Manufactory (100 BP, 50 CP) x4
---[X] Trade goods (50 BP) (Trade good, stored: 5 -> 55)
--[X] 3rd construction slot (650 BP):
---[X] Manufactory (100 BP, 50 CP) x2
---[X] Anti-Air Defenses, underground (aboveground base) (75 BP, 5 CP) x 4
---[X] Psychic Shielding: 85/100 (repair for 10 BP/point) (150 BP) -> 100/100
--[X] Pay rent (Trade goods, stored: 55 -> 30)
- Pronouns
- Kho
[X] Plan: Exponential Growth Approaching
[X] Plan: Exponential Growth Approaching
[X] Plan: Exponential Growth In Education
-[X] [Free] Poke around some more in the databases, looking for anything in particular.
--[X] Look into the internal organization of the Mechanicus. Hierarchy, specializations and their names, rights and responsibilities of each group, the like. Things that will make you more convincing when Thlaya asks for report
-[X] Diplomacy (Mentorship for Anexa): "And what is the Omnissiah, girl? The body of Machine God in the physical world? A being wielding the power of Machine God? The Machine God itself? A name given to the supposed concept of omniscience? You'd be surprised how many important projects got nowhere because the leading Magi disagreed on dogma. But I digress.
I believe that there is Truth. The fact, the measurable existence and laws that govern it. I believe that the Quest of Knowledge is how we uncover the Truth. But we experience existence through senses, which are fallible, and thus we sometimes find incorrect or incomplete information. But if you observe something enough times and compare your observations, you will find patterns. And if you compare enough patterns, you may find some of those underlying laws. You may find part of the Truth.
I don't particularly care about the place of my philosophy within the greater theology. As I said, many Magi hold incompatible opinions on the nature of Omnissiah. What matters is the knowledge. The Truth, or however you want to call it. Because it is a measurable fact, the same in all existence. Mass attracts mass. Hydrogen is less dense than helium. Two plus two equals four. This is another lesson: information you believe in and information you act on need not always be the same.
If you seek to know what is the Truth of the Omnissiah, or if the Omnissiah is a part of the Truth at all, you will inevitably and quickly run into the issue that so much of what is believed and said and thought about the Omnissiah is, with our current tools, technologies, skills and Knowledge, is simply unfalsifiable.
That doesn't inherently make any or even all interpretations of the Omnissiah Untrue or indeed, not part of the Truth. But until we can measure the Omnissiah, test the Omnissiah, until we can fail to disprove the nature of the Omnissiah, we cannot know the Truth of the Omnissiah. I do not put my faith in blind beliefs and unprovable dogmas, but in Truth, and so I cannot hold faith in the Omnissiah until I Know this Truth.
Perhaps, if you are willing, we can seek this Truth together, for the good of all Mechanicus and Humanity. For only in Truth will we find the Knowledge and tools to fight and push back against the dark, and bring back to the Galaxy the light the Ancestors knew once again.
All this, I share this with you as a reward for your discoveries, and for daring to be curious. And if you still wish to join me in my sojourn for Truth, together we can both learn so much more."
-[X] Construction x3 (1400 GBP = 300 + 450 + 650)
--[X] 1st construction slot (300 BP):
---[X] Manufactory (100 BP, 50 CP) x3
--[X] 2nd construction slot (450 BP):
---[X] Manufactory (100 BP, 50 CP) x4
---[X] Trade goods (50 BP) (Trade good, stored: 5 -> 55)
--[X] 3rd construction slot (650 BP):
---[X] Manufactory (100 BP, 50 CP) x2
---[X] Anti-Air Defenses, underground (aboveground base) (75 BP, 5 CP) x 4
---[X] Psychic Shielding: 85/100 (repair for 10 BP/point) (150 BP) -> 100/100
--[X] Pay rent (Trade goods, stored: 55 -> 30)
I'm mostly fine with construction side of Exponential Growth Approaching. I'm changing the database read to help with the next AdMech diplomation and using my writeup with @Negentropy additions in mentorship.
-[X] [Free] Poke around some more in the databases, looking for anything in particular.
--[X] Look into the internal organization of the Mechanicus. Hierarchy, specializations and their names, rights and responsibilities of each group, the like. Things that will make you more convincing when Thlaya asks for report
-[X] Diplomacy (Mentorship for Anexa): "And what is the Omnissiah, girl? The body of Machine God in the physical world? A being wielding the power of Machine God? The Machine God itself? A name given to the supposed concept of omniscience? You'd be surprised how many important projects got nowhere because the leading Magi disagreed on dogma. But I digress.
I believe that there is Truth. The fact, the measurable existence and laws that govern it. I believe that the Quest of Knowledge is how we uncover the Truth. But we experience existence through senses, which are fallible, and thus we sometimes find incorrect or incomplete information. But if you observe something enough times and compare your observations, you will find patterns. And if you compare enough patterns, you may find some of those underlying laws. You may find part of the Truth.
I don't particularly care about the place of my philosophy within the greater theology. As I said, many Magi hold incompatible opinions on the nature of Omnissiah. What matters is the knowledge. The Truth, or however you want to call it. Because it is a measurable fact, the same in all existence. Mass attracts mass. Hydrogen is less dense than helium. Two plus two equals four. This is another lesson: information you believe in and information you act on need not always be the same.
If you seek to know what is the Truth of the Omnissiah, or if the Omnissiah is a part of the Truth at all, you will inevitably and quickly run into the issue that so much of what is believed and said and thought about the Omnissiah is, with our current tools, technologies, skills and Knowledge, is simply unfalsifiable.
That doesn't inherently make any or even all interpretations of the Omnissiah Untrue or indeed, not part of the Truth. But until we can measure the Omnissiah, test the Omnissiah, until we can fail to disprove the nature of the Omnissiah, we cannot know the Truth of the Omnissiah. I do not put my faith in blind beliefs and unprovable dogmas, but in Truth, and so I cannot hold faith in the Omnissiah until I Know this Truth.
Perhaps, if you are willing, we can seek this Truth together, for the good of all Mechanicus and Humanity. For only in Truth will we find the Knowledge and tools to fight and push back against the dark, and bring back to the Galaxy the light the Ancestors knew once again.
All this, I share this with you as a reward for your discoveries, and for daring to be curious. And if you still wish to join me in my sojourn for Truth, together we can both learn so much more."
-[X] Construction x3 (1400 GBP = 300 + 450 + 650)
--[X] 1st construction slot (300 BP):
---[X] Manufactory (100 BP, 50 CP) x3
--[X] 2nd construction slot (450 BP):
---[X] Manufactory (100 BP, 50 CP) x4
---[X] Trade goods (50 BP) (Trade good, stored: 5 -> 55)
--[X] 3rd construction slot (650 BP):
---[X] Manufactory (100 BP, 50 CP) x2
---[X] Anti-Air Defenses, underground (aboveground base) (75 BP, 5 CP) x 4
---[X] Psychic Shielding: 85/100 (repair for 10 BP/point) (150 BP) -> 100/100
--[X] Pay rent (Trade goods, stored: 55 -> 30)
I'm mostly fine with construction side of Exponential Growth Approaching. I'm changing the database read to help with the next AdMech diplomation and using my writeup with @Negentropy additions in mentorship.
- Location
- Don't know
- Pronouns
- Whats/That
I'm gonna have to go with this plan. It's very appealing to me.
[X] Plan: Exponential Growth In Education
Also, a roll with Diplomacy is definitely going to happen. Should I do it now or wait until the vote is over?
[X] Plan: Exponential Growth In Education
Also, a roll with Diplomacy is definitely going to happen. Should I do it now or wait until the vote is over?
meianmaru
The Devourer of Fiction
Wait for the QM to ask it.