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Yes but the thing with OMC and future is how many people will get it because for it to effective for us OMC needs to allow one crew to effect say 100CP to be actually useful for us that's multiple manufactories under one person plus how does someone without OMC check what is being done? All in all it's just too dangerous for others right now we'd to be providing personal psy shields at minimum before I would agree.
Why would OMC need to allow 1 Crew to do 100 CP?

There is Staff. If each Staff member with OMC adds 2 CP then 1 ship slot of people (500) would give 1000 CP.

And it would take 25 people for 1 manufactory.
Could be more without getting into your "multiple factories per person hypothetical.
Like 20 CP per person -> 2.5 people needed for one manufactory (2 full time, 1 half-time employee).
And give 10.000 CP per filled
Crew Quarters (50 BP, 15 CP, 1 slot) Enough crew space for 500 crew to live in comfort with all necessary amenities.
Which would be almost what we spend in CP currently.
Command Points 10,745/12,500

And it would be perfect for hiding our AI-ness from people like the SM if they ever realize our voidfactories are all unmanned:
"Why is all that unmanned? Is it Abominal In..."
"Its remote controlled. Controllers live on Denva II. No need to pay for livingspace etc on the void manufactories. And the operators get to see their family everyday."
 
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We should ramp up ship production to protect denva if we hadn't finished the grand cruiser this could have been bad we wouldn't speak as an equal we'd be all but supplicant to the Marines whims
 
We should ramp up ship production to protect denva if we hadn't finished the grand cruiser this could have been bad we wouldn't speak as an equal we'd be all but supplicant to the Marines whims
If we hadn't finished the grand cruiser they would be still low level random encounter.
What would the do, attack Ramilies or enter orbit and die?
 
I think OMC is better here, the sooner they can use the factories the sooner they can train people to run them.
Good point. I do remember Neablis talking about it likely considerably accelerating their industrial and scientific progress. Because it would push for widespread acceptance of cybernetics and neural implants especially. How does this look?

-[] Research x2 (400 RP + 55 RP)
--[] Immaterium Investigations (200 RP)
---[] Anexa +55 RP, +10 speciality (Warp)
--[] Organic-Machine control (150 RP)
--[] 105 RP budget ("Organic-Machine control" related potential Poor Success cleanup tech -> Manufacturing OMC tech)

Because OMC itself doesn't give manufacturing tech, I thought it would be for the best that we chip away at any potential Poor Success complications and at the next level of tech which will hopefully be about getting brain implants upgraded to working with the manufactories.
-[] Organic-Machine control (150 RP) Allows you to hook humans into your own command-and-control loop, allowing you to turn over command duties of various bots to humans - though they'll only be able to command combat units. (Unlocks brain implants that allow a human to control some number of CP worth of combat bots/ships. There are more technologies to allow humans to command larger ships/manufacturing systems as well)
Immaterium Investigation is there so that we can do "Further Scrapcode research" later on with the synergy bonus. And after further thought, maybe it is actually for the best to push back investigating the Scrapcode to the turn after this, so that we can be sure that the Astartes have moved on before we start testing our caged daemon once again.

EDIT: some typo corrections / wording choices changed
 
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-[] Improved Armor Articulation (50 RP) From your research on humanizing combat bots you have some ideas about improving the points of articulation on armor to increase the range of motion and make the suits more responsive. (Increased performance & mobility for heavier armor, both for combat bots & people wearing heavy armor you make. May unlock further armor upgrade techs)
should we finally do this?
 
That was perfect. The crit gave us everything I would have wanted from a diplomacy action. We know where danger lurks and got their warp address if we want to pay them a visit.

-[] Research x2 (400 RP + 55 RP)
--[] Immaterium Investigations (200 RP)
---[] Anexa +55 RP, +10 speciality (Warp)
--[] Organic-Machine control (150 RP)
--[] 105 RP budget ("Organic-Machine control" related potential Poor Success cleanup tech -> Manufacturing OMC tech)

Since we don't need to use a diplomacy action on the space marines this turn and the factory handoff needs to wait until Manufacturing OMC is done, what if we expand this to 3 research action + construction?

-[] Research x3 (600 RP + 55 RP)
--[] Immaterium Investigations (200 RP)
---[] Anexa +55 RP, +10 speciality (Warp)
--[] Organic-Machine control (150 RP)
--[] Further Scrapcode Research (150 RP)
--[] Mothballing (50 RP)
--[] 105 RP budget ("Organic-Machine control" related potential Poor Success cleanup tech -> Manufacturing OMC tech)

This would advance both the projects we want to finish before leaving and preps us to store any industry we want to keep.

With a construction action we could do:
-Construction (7850 BP)
--[] Repair Aerithon factories (1,500 BP, 250 CP)
--[] 8x Deep Space Manufactories (6,000 BP, 400 CP)
---[] @Neablis, could we build manufactories in a mothballed state?

This gets us a lot of industry that we can mothball in prep for our departure. The plan would be to hand over all the industry on / around Denva next turn, while we keep everything at Aerithon. Next turn before the handoff we could drop the 6,250 BP to build out the 50 discount orbital manufactories and 1,500 BP for two more Deep Space Manufactories. This would leave us with (50*50 = 2,500 BP from Logistics station + 1000 BP from gas stations + 1000 BP from deep space) = 4,500 BP mothballed for our return from exploration.

This assumes we are leaving for exploration next turn.

Thoughts?

edits: post coffee grammar improvements
 
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Made some modifications to my old plan. I still think we should help Denva when we hand the technology over to help them along. Yeah, we could use a third Research action but helping Denva reach the stars seems a bit more prudent right now. Thoughts?

[ ] Plan passing the torch

-[ ] Diplomacy
--[ ] Denva is reaching for the stars and you might as well give them the schematics for most of the technology you've made so far. You're not handing anything involving messing with the Warp over bar the Void Abacus, Warp Drive, and the Gellar Field. They've gotten this far, you might as well they put that tech to good use. If fact, now that you think about it, you should really discuss the land agreement you have with Aevon. Might be time to buy the land outright at this point.

-[ ]ResearchX2 (200X2+55=455RP)
--[ ] Organic-Machine control (150 RP) to help free up the Manufactories and let Denva use them when we don't need them
--[ ]Brawler-class frigate 100 RP, 100 CP, 2 ship construction slots (1,000 BP, 2200x600 meters)
Engines: (7) for (150BP). Shields: (medium) for (150BP) Armor: (medium) for (150BP)
Combat equipment(250BP): High-maneuverability thrusters (100BP), Medium boarding preparations (100BP), Plasma Macrocannon payloads (50BP)
Weapons(800X0.9=720BP): Prow Ram (50BP), Medium Macrocannons (200BP), Light MacrocannonsX2 (200BP), Light Melta weapon (200BP), Medium missiles (100BP), Point defense (50BP)
Non-combat equipment(400BP): Void Abacus (100BP), Warp Drive (100BP), Psychic shielding (200BP)
--[ ] Introduction to Human Genetics (45/100RP)+(55RP)
--[ ] Organic-Machine control (150 RP)

-[ ] Construction (7,850BP)
--[ ] Repair Aerithon installations (1,500VBP, 250CP)
--[ ] Brawler class frigateX2 (5,640BP, 200CP)
--[ ] Open to suggestions (710 BP)

-[ ]Victan active action: Denva Diplomacy

-[ ] Anexa Active action: Assist in studying Organic Machine Control

-[ ] Cia Active Psyker Improvement
 
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That was perfect. The crit gave us everything I would have wanted from a diplomacy action. We know where danger lurks and got their warp address if we want to pay them a visit.



Since we don't need to use a diplomacy action on the space marines this turn and the factory handoff needs to wait until Manufacturing OMC is done, what if we expand this to 3 research action + construction?

-[] Research x3 (600 RP + 55 RP)
--[] Immaterium Investigations (200 RP)
---[] Anexa +55 RP, +10 speciality (Warp)
--[] Organic-Machine control (150 RP)
--[] Further Scrapcode Research (150 RP)
--[] Mothballing (50 RP)
--[] 105 RP budget ("Organic-Machine control" related potential Poor Success cleanup tech -> Manufacturing OMC tech)

This would advance both the projects we want to finish before leaving and preps us to store any industry we want to keep.

With a construction action we could do:
-Construction (7850 BP)
--[] Repair Aerithon factories (1,500 BP, 250 CP)
--[] 8x Deep Space Manufactories (6,000 BP, 400 CP)
---[] @Neablis, could we build manufactories in a mothballed state?

This gets us a lot of industry that we can mothball in prep for our departure. The plan would be to hand over all the industry on / around Denva next turn, while we keep everything at Aerithon. Next turn before the handoff we could drop the 6,250 BP to build out the 50 discount orbital manufactories and 1,500 BP for two more Deep Space Manufactories. This would leave us with (50*50 = 2,500 BP from Logistics station + 1000 BP from gas stations + 1000 BP from deep space) = 4,500 BP mothballed for our return from exploration.

This assumes we are leaving for exploration next turn.

Thoughts?

edits: post coffee grammar improvements
maybe add -[] Intelligence Coding (400 RP)
 
should we finally do this?
No reason with all the other more immediately useful techs. And long-term useful techs. Neablis has on purpose populated our tech-tree with so much stuff we cannot ever finish it, so we probably should focus on our greatest needs. Sure, at some point I think I want it due to the synergies with many other techs that can go to our bots. But we don't need it right now.
maybe add -[] Intelligence Coding (400 RP)
I'm not comfortable with developing more AIs at this point, until we secure both better psychic shielding and have time put aside to watch over, educate and care for them as they grow. Because Chaos at the very least will jump at the chance to corrupt a naive newborn AIs if it can. And the other benefits are probaby not worth it at this point.
I'm still pondering if we should do a diplo anyway, on something if not the space marines. Also, if we actually do 3x research on this turn? Based on my plan, I would add the extra 200 RP to the total of 305 RP to tech-cleanup and then towards OMC manufacturing, and then the rest if there is any left to our currently in-progress techs.

On construction, instead of more manufacturing? I think I would construct for both Denva and Kysslar's Nest Caltrops. They should be actually able to use them with the first OMC tech, as the description for it talks about "combat bots/ships" with the follow-up tech for bigger ships. And the Caltrop is in the lightest and simplest class of void platforms. Its not even a ships, so it can't even move on its own power, except probably do some small orbital correction maneuvers when needed. Perfect for training their new space navy with something easy.
 
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I'm not comfortable with developing more AIs at this point, until we secure both better psychic shielding and have time put aside to watch over, educate and care for them as they grow. Because Chaos at the very least will jump at the chance to corrupt a naive newborn AIs if it can. And the other benefits are probaby not worth it at this point.
I wasn't saying it to create more AIs, it was to start the command point tree and automation tree
 
-[ ] Diplomacy
--[ ] Denva is reaching for the stars and you might as well give them the schematics for most of the technology you've made so far. You're not handing anything involving messing with the Warp over bar the Void Abacus, Warp Drive, and the Gellar Field. They've gotten this far, you might as well they put that tech to good use. If fact, now that you think about it, you should really discuss the land agreement you have with Aevon. Might be time to buy the land outright at this point.
To clarify, we already get a free action to share tech with Denva. So it sounds like you want to use this action to more actively teach them the technology, is that right?

--[ ]Brawler-class frigate 100 RP, 100 CP, 2 ship construction slots (1,000 BP, 2200x600 meters)
I think this a nice close-in escort, but it pains me to research a new ship without getting the efficient ship design tech (150 RP to halve the cost of all ship designs). I can certainly see an argument for skipping it for a single ship class though.

--[ ] Brawler class frigateX2 (5,640BP, 200CP)
However, the larger problem is we don't have the Void Abacus manufacturing technology (200 RP) yet. So we couldn't actually build these ships yet.

I'm still pondering if we should do a diplo anyway, on something if not the space marines. Also, if we actually do 3x research on this turn? Based on my plan, I would add the extra 200 RP to the total of 305 RP to tech-cleanup and then towards OMC manufacturing, and then the rest if there is any left to our currently in-progress techs.

On construction, instead of more manufacturing? I think I would construct for both Denva and Kysslar's Nest Caltrops. They should be actually able to use them with the first OMC tech, as the description for it talks about "combat bots/ships" with the follow-up tech for bigger ships. And the Caltrop is in the lightest and simplest class of void platforms. Its not even a ships, so it can't even move on its own power, except probably do some small orbital correction maneuvers when needed. Perfect for training their armies.

If you think of a good diplo action let me know but I'm not seeing one this turn.

For research, I want to clear the second scrapcode this turn. Then we can see what it unlocks right away and unless we need it for something god tier we can toss it into the sun. This removes a lot of risk from the board. I'd be fine on waiting on the mothballing to stick that 50 RP towards manufacturing OMC.

If we hold on mothballing and stick with my construction (restore gas + 8 deep void) we would have 9,650 BP next turn. After building up Aerithon and mothballing everything we want to keep we would have 2,800 BP or 9 Caltrops to gift / protect our stuff while we are gone.

Does that feel workable?
 
If they can sell us on the emperor by saying "the emperor hates chaos and works to oppose it"

I imagine they would LOVE doing so
Technically we could at least fake Emperor worship, have actually looked into the Imperial Faith? We could learn about Confederation of Light and claim to follow them since they are a legit subgroup of the Ecclesiarchy. And we could at least listen to them since their Sanguinius lot and won't betray us if we help them.
 
So… MMS is useful, very helpful for automation. Wasn't there a tech that would let us build Psy-shielding into buildings? Easily covers for all concerns around corruption while the OMC follow up tech is in use. And if the general populace is actively being corrupted where there's no shielding, or where there is shielding, we kind of have bigger problems than just the manufacturing ability they'd gain. Frankly, the only corruptive influence right now is the scrap code generator. Once we chuck Bongo into the sun, that goes bye bye as well. So unless the demon forces reach Denva there is VERY little chance that they'll be corrupted.

We could also always set up our own anti-chaos watch-force to check on the manufacturers and staff to ensure they aren't corrupted, but people have been remarkably against that idea.

Right now, chances are minuscule that OMC will backfire thanks to Chaos. We research personal Psy-shields while we're out exploring and bring it back, then Denva has the shields you claim are necessary for us to trust them with tech that is necessary to their expansion. If we do it in that order, they also get to expand a bit while we're gone and then also get those defenses later.

The real question is… would they even use the personal Psy-shields? Those can be easy to repair compared to the shielding in buildings and such- we'd need nested pay-shielding if we want someone with an implant working in a shielded building, and overall it just gets complex and extremely excessive rather quickly.

After all, unless they know about the dangers, why would anyone willingly go through that expense and effort? As far as they know, it's not a big deal or a big concern. We could give them the tech, but would they use it?

In the end, I trust Denva, and it is pretty safe. One we start building Psy-shielding into all of our buildings, it'll be enough for them to notice the passive drain, and ask about it when we turn. We then explain that there are facetious things in The Warp that feed on and manipulate sentient minds, which is what the shielding is meant to defend against.

TL; DR
OMC and its follow up are very useful to Denva now, and easy enough to hand over. To convince people to install psychic defensive implants, they need to believe there's something to defend against, so you have to explain that there are monsters in The Warp that feed on and manipulate human minds which hasn't been a major issue for them in the hundreds of years without the imperium, so they may not fully believe in the dangers that we know about.

Trust them, hand over that tech and whatever manufacturing we can, broker an agreement to have them build psy-shielding into buildings and ships, and it's all good. Not much more we can do without explaining things in enough detail to make it a consistent and immediate danger.
 
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Wasn't there a tech that would let us build Psy-shielding into buildings?

There was and we unlocked it.

Researched miniaturized psychic shields - 39+20=59! Success!
You can now upgrade any building/installation with psychic shields by adding +100-500 bp to its cost and getting a 10-50 hp shield out of it. Not compatible with larger shields.

It is still quite expensive, but is certainly something we can add where it is needed.
 
It would also probably further speed up Denva unification- since you can easily share production with all countries- and Denva productivity. They'd likely specialize their manufactures much more than we have.
 
I don't know why I want this to be built in Denva
I love that and at 25 RP we should be able to fit it into a research plan no problem. Even if we can't build it for them we can at least hand over the designs.
It would also probably further speed up Denva unification- since you can easily share production with all countries- and Denva productivity. They'd likely specialize their manufactures much more than we have.
Agreed, this seems like a very good unification/uplift technology for a bargain price. And with not even a roll required because it is just about making a blueprint. I'll probably try to fit it into my plan.

I'll also reconsider if we should just finish our bongo-testing and then throw it into the local star.
 
Alright I finally figured out what subconscious memory was causing me be all panic and doom about handing off OMC to Denva (I seriously hate my brain sometimes).

it's Bongo now let's be real Denva isn't ready to defend against scrapcode it didn't matter before because they had nothing with network capability for bongo to hijack OMC changes that completely not only will they have manufactories with networked connections but people who are now vectors for a scrapcode migration and if bongo gets out and let's be real it just takes a bad enough roll and it bidding it's time then we now have to hunt down however many people get corrupted in the initial escape before they get to other manufactories or OMC people and spread the scrapcode further and further while also cleaning up what's left behind without our own shields falling due to being exposed to chaos iconography.

So yeah that just popped out of my subconscious and now I'm less freaked about OMC awesome.
 
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