Voting is open
Embarrassingly, I put it aside to read later and only got around to it when you reminded me.

I like it! It works with the established lore, is interesting for it's own sake, fills in the map, reads as possible, has many possibilities between "Rival statelet" to "Vaporizes itself six seconds after Lloyd dies".

Its flaws are powerful and real and so are its strengths.
I appreciate the compliments, that was in general what I was going for here. Something to make the world of Vicotria Falls a more complete and interesting place.

I've been working on this for a while - before your Cascadia omake, actually. That initially send me through a loop, but in the end, I think a more fleshed out background helped make things better, even if making the timeline work was difficult.
 
An area which is mountainous and inaccessible, divided culturally and politically between religiously conservative rural areas engaged in large-scale opium production and multiethnic urban areas with tenous control of the surrounding countryside? Now where have i heard that before?
 
What prominence? It's two towns connected by a highway that has no armed forces beyond a militia, that have become something akin to company towns, in the part of Idaho physically furthest from any of the nearby nation-states, that manage to get by trading vaccines for food. It's prominent for Idaho, sure, but there's bigger and more prosperous things on the map that haven't gotten stomped out.
You've tripled the cities' pre-Collapse population. That's an automatic trip, because that kind of recovery spreads.
Hmm...
@CthuluWasRight, would Berlin's sales of the G29 be restricted to militaries only?
I can answer that: absolutely not. That rifle is their baby and they're trying to keep it secure.
Ok another omake

The Crown Dependence and the Collapse and aftermath By Professor Callum McKenney, MBE, OBCB.

The Crown Dependencies of Mann and the Channel Islands have always inhabit an unusual place in the political structure of the United Kingdom both before and after the Collapse. They are made up of three self-governing possessions of the Crown rather than the overseas territories or the United Kingdom proper and were internationally classed as territories the United Kingdom is responsible for each with there own legislative assembly and had power on many local matters with the assent of the crown.

The Dependences were made up of the Bailiwick of Guernsey, Jersey which is held by the Crown under the title of the Duke of Normandy a holdover from one of the Monerchys previous title and in the case of the Isle of Mann the given title is Lord of Mann.

Before the Collapse the Channel Islands and the Isle of Mann where both pleasant tourist destinations due to various oddities about them and there unique cultures such as the Manx Cats of the Isle of Mann and the pleasant climate of the channel islands and oddities like the Isle of Sark in the Channel Islands being on of the few remaining feudal states in Europe.

The big draw however of the Channel Islands and the Isle's of man, however, wasn't the tourism it was their use as major offshore financial centres similar to that of the former Cayman Islands and Bermuda before the collapse left them in anarchy.

With the Collapse and the rising, it decimated the economies of the crown dependencies almost overnight gutting their affluence and hurting the prosperity the people of the dependencies enjoyed in the past. This caused a deep depression on the Channel Island making the rely heavily on their second sources of income which were agriculture but did little to restore the island's finances however unlike the rest of the UK this helped feed themselves at the very least when compared to the rest of the UK through their diet was limited, to say the least.

The Isle of Mann, on the other hand, took a beating during the collapse with very few people looking to with their financial sector getting decimated, though their medical sector allowed them to recover somewhat the situation briefly was still infinitely worse with the Tynwald being forced to launch a crash fishing and agricultural program to try and feed itself and send as many people who could to mainland Britain or Ireland which did not help the situation in their country very much.

This was made infinitely worse on the main British Isle when the Novemberist rose up against the government which in turn spread up the fragmentation of the United Kingdom. The Channel Island, however, lead by the canny Lieutenant Governor Grove of Guernsey and Lieutenant Governor Dateon along with the Seigneur of Sark Beaumont were able to keep the Islands relatively intact though they struggled due to limited resources they were able to use the famous Jersey Royals too keep people feed on a steady diet as well as what small craft to they could acquire that refuged into the island.

The leaders of the channel island were however shocked when members of the Royal Family aboard HMS Defiant took brief refuge on the Channel Islands during the worse of the rising when they were evacuating to Australia and New Zeland. They left behind a company of Guardsmen who provided much-needed security for the beleaguered channel islands and trained up a limited territorial force to assist in providing security,

This was supplemented by what was left of the Royal Navy and the French Navy that could also use the Irelands as a safe harbour when needed as well to reprovision when they could as well as the fishing vessels and small ships. Out of the fragmentation and the crisis, the Channel Islands relatively intact but there were times of mass violence when desperate people tried to make it over to them due to the illusion of safety. They eventually joined with the Kingdom of England when the United Kingdom fragmented due to the chaos brought on by the collapse and the Novemberist rising. Though the never will most likely regain their status as a tax haven they did, however, whether the crisis better than the mainland but only just barely,

After the resurrection of the UK under King Geroge VII and Prime Minister Patel under the Birmingham Accords with the vital aid of the EU discussion was given to what to do about the channel islands. After much debate it the House's and discussion with the Assemblies on the Channel Islands they were given seats in the House of Commons and formed the Channel Islands assembly and the leaders who lead them through the crisis was awarded the titles of Earl respectively and given the right to sit in the House of Lord. This was alongside as well as gaining with EU funding the European Centre of Disease Control on Jearsy which worked well as it provided a new income to the Channel Islands and allowed the EU and the UK to monitor who came in and out. To aid with security a new Territorial company has planned to be stood up when funding officer by retired guardsman called the Bailiwick Rifles.

When compared to the relative success story of the Channel Islands the Isle of Mann is a tale of woe. The Novemberist rising effectively cut off who remained on the Island leaving them isolated and exposed as well as cut off from any relief they could be sent, that which did arrived sporadically and was never enough due to the Novemberist working to cause as much chaos as possible in the UK. This caused the Island to further tighten its belt Ireland tried to send aid to the bulged little island but the collapse cause its own issues and it was limited at best.

The Manx survived but to quote the people who lived through the hard times, "it was a near run thing." Eventually, after the fragmentation, they were caught in a tricky situation since they received offers to join the Kingdom of Scotland or Northern Wales Syndicate and was in desperate need of supplies this led to heated debate in the Tynwald. It led to a brief breaking of the body as they were unable to come to a decision some wishing to join the proposal given by the various successor states that approached them others wishing to go to Englands.

The months of heated debate's lead to temper flaring and led to the riot's in Douglas which the bulged Isle of Man police struggled to put down. In the end, the decision was made to go with Scotland based on the past ties to the nation and the brief control the Scots held back in 1266. However, the session caused much political tension until the reunification of the United Kingdom and today the scares can still be seen today.

In a memorial in the capital of Douglas to those who died in the strife which tore through the Isle of Mann it is of a Simple human shape in a weeping position with a Manx Cat sat near it and with the inscription in the langue of the Isle, "We weep for our lost and our follies may God forgive us." The Isle of Mann will be a long time recovering some of the people who fled and their children have returned to try and rebuild but like the rest of the UK, the island is still on shaky ground.

Given how the UK has been since the reformation the Channel Island look to be in a relatively stronger position than they could have been however the Isle of Mann in contrast look to be needing aid for a good many years to come.
As far as I know about Britain, canon.
 
To be clear, I 100% think that there are plantations. It just isn't "Old South won, all plantations now". Places, where the Old South had a higher balance of power, have a high likelihood of going plantation.

I also think that the drug's growing isn't just the "Old South". "New South" Descendents are 100% doing is well. Some of them might not like it, but the money is damn good. And Victoria makes sure they don't have other industrial options. And really, who cares if some rich Colombian bastard gets addicted if it feeds your family or pays for the guns to keep from getting conquered? High yield fields might even have wars over then, and burning of the other people's fields. The South American drug wars may be taking on a new meaning...

I 100% support drug South. I 100% plantations existing. I just want that in the backdrop of a lot of little polities that are the descendants of a war no-one won. Rather than all plantations.
I don't really think its feasible to set up opium plantations in the South though. Or even cocaine.

Not in the age of pharmaceutical-grade fentanyl and MDMA,. And especially not when they are next door to disorganized Mexico, where Russia keeps sabotaging shit, and so there is periodic combat, but no actual crazy faction with an ideological opposition to technology doing it's best to reduce everyone to the 1930s. Which translates to a significant competitive advantage for prospective drug lords.

Opium just isn't an attractive export good in that context.
Given what transport costs likely were post-Collapse, and the paucity of industry in the CONUS(no narcosubs for example), you have...issues moving product. Which is something synthetics have no problem with.

Problem is, I can't think of anything alternative that might serve as an illicit trade good.
Maybe someone came up with something new? Some genemodified monstrosity out of a lab somewhere?
 
Not in the age of pharmaceutical-grade fentanyl and MDMA,. And especially not when they are next door to disorganized Mexico

mexico is a vietnam of sorts

you dont have a central state but rather many factions of criminal warlords wich make use of militar grade weapons along a shiton of money

unless alexander legalizes drugs and therefore crashes the market for ilegal ones
mexican warlordism will continue to exist and anny attemtp from his part to stop it will turn into a vietnam escenario

the use has been in a war against drugs since the 70's and killed off dozens upon dozens of organizations and yet the market is growing
what hopes has alexander of winning?

specially when the international market crash would have caused the entirety of the world to return to drugs as way to gain money fast and reliable
 
I think, according to the Let's Read of Victoria, Alex had his Hohenzollern puppets based out of Kaliningrad. Not sure whether he kept them, or got rid of them after he got rid of Kraft.
 
I think, according to the Let's Read of Victoria, Alex had his Hohenzollern puppets based out of Kaliningrad. Not sure whether he kept them, or got rid of them after he got rid of Kraft.
He could be keeping them to have a 'legitimate' puppet if he ever reached Germany. Might have been in the plans during the Collapse, but he got stopped at Poland.
 
....I have no words. I mean, they *exist*, but their great undertaking currently is brewing beer. I have literally no idea how Germany could flock to the Hohenzollern again. They are irrelevant in modern Germany. I would have less problems giving us a autocratic regime, ffs.

Do I need to read the book? I do not want to read the book.
 
....I have no words. I mean, they *exist*, but their great undertaking currently is brewing beer. I have literally no idea how Germany could flock to the Hohenzollern again. They are irrelevant in modern Germany. I would have less problems giving us a autocratic regime, ffs.

Do I need to read the book? I do not want to read the book.
I have read the book, so I can tell you that you don't need to. It's two or three throwaway lines about how the German royal family and the 'legitimate' government is in exile, and isn't it just terrible that aristocrats don't get to tell people what to do because of who they were born to anymore. And one that calls Rumford out as a dense motherfucker, since he somehow didn't clue in after seeing Kraft dress up in Prussian officer's uniform, complete with spiked helmet.
 
I have read the book, so I can tell you that you don't need to. It's two or three throwaway lines about how the German royal family and the 'legitimate' government is in exile, and isn't it just terrible that aristocrats don't get to tell people what to do because of who they were born to anymore. And one that calls Rumford out as a dense motherfucker, since he somehow didn't clue in after seeing Kraft dress up in Prussian officer's uniform, complete with spiked helmet.
you have my sympathy for having to read that piece of trash. May your eyeballs rest in peace from melting from the sheer drek dripping from that book.
 
you have my sympathy for having to read that piece of trash. May your eyeballs rest in peace from melting from the sheer drek dripping from that book.
Honestly, it wasn't all that. The text is so shoddy in quality that you don't really feel the full depth of disgust at what you're reading until it's over and you're thinking back on it. I'd call it stylistic suck but that would ascribe it the merit of being done intentionally.
 
mexico is a vietnam of sorts.
you dont have a central state but rather many factions of criminal warlords wich make use of militar grade weapons along a shiton of money

unless alexander legalizes drugs and therefore crashes the market for ilegal ones
mexican warlordism will continue to exist and anny attemtp from his part to stop it will turn into a vietnam escenario

the use has been in a war against drugs since the 70's and killed off dozens upon dozens of organizations and yet the market is growing
what hopes has alexander of winning?
specially when the international market crash would have caused the entirety of the world to return to drugs as way to gain money fast and reliable
You are mistaken.

Mexico's drug cartel situation is largely fuelled by the existence of a massive market up north in the US, both of consumers of drugs and of businesses where drug money could be laundered into the legal economy.
It's not a producer, it's a conduit for drugs from further south, in Colombia and the like.

With the collapse of the US economy, that entire situation would have radically changed as the market for drugs would have collapsed and their asset stashes in the US would have become worthless. And the death of the global financial system sinking all the other places where anonymous money could be shuffled into, like the Cayman Islands would have made things worse by eliminating their money stashes.

Drug cartels reliant on cheap money from transhipping drugs into the US would have curdled and died.

So no, whatever state Mexico is in now, drug cartels dont play much of a role, if any.
Some of the factions might be descended from former drug cartels, but they could not have survived on drug money with no customers.

It's canon for this quest that Mexico would have a coherent government again if not for Alexei fucking with them to keep them divided and keep North America shattered.
 
Last edited:
I'm amazed people could read the book in question that this quest is based on I just read the back blurb and TV tropes page.

I felt disgusted just looking at it like how could anyone write such awful and repugnant garbage.

Good on poptart for deciding to do the moral think and have us take sledgehammer to Victoria.
 
Last edited:
I am not sufficiently informed on the economics and logistics of law enforcement and small arms to rule on that. I know militaries are generally starting to transition towards caseless, although there are holdouts. Not sure where cops would be. Thus, non sure about New York.
If I may venture an opinion, NYC sources it's equipment from Europe in this AU.
Both for cost-effectiveness and logistic commonality, with a little bit of dollar diplomacy thrown in, the way the Saudis mostly buy US milspec.
If Europe has moved to caseless anytime in the last three decades, the NYPD would have followed suit.

Speaking of which, bringing over a couple loosely linked ideas from discussion in the discord:
This is kinda late. My apologies.
1) American organized crime wars between legitimist expats who still claim to be, like, loyal to the state department or intelligence apparatus, generic American expat/refugee mafia, and Vic mafia.

2) The Victorian overseas mafia is run in large part by the Inquisition and is HARD into human and drug trafficking to gain the foreign specie they need to scrape by and is basically all they can do for foreign intelligence rings that isn't a bunch of reactionaries not good enough for Alexander screaming at them that "INDIA IS RIPE FOR THE PLUCKING I TELLS YOU, White settler colonism in India is totally viable against the degenerate darkies old chap!". These guys also do the vaunted Victorian turbo hacking that doesn't actually amount to anything.

3) After the Old South defeated the NAC, the Victorians helped them set up new confederacy which (predictably considering it would have almost certainly been the fate of the first Confederacy had it successfully seceded) dissolved acrimoniously and turned into islands of little plantation economies. The local Victorian divisions and Inquisition, in all their wisdom, decided that perhaps the best cash crop that said plantations could produce would perhaps be opium for... Traditional Western Medicinal Use. Medicinal use that also sees most of that cash crop exported overseas via the Victorian Mafia. (And only occaisionally hijacked by pirates from Miami who fight the non-shit parts of the Vic navy stationed in the ATLANTIC)

5) One of Miami's expansion choises might be to realise "Hey, we're a thassalocracy" and just... take control of the mouth of the Mississippi while we're still working our way overland south. Which presents a huge conundrum because even if they operate in good faith with use as a fellow democratic revivalist power they still get powerful economic advantages denied to us via control of the gulf and just... being there first.

6) Unrelatedly, TIL I learned about Saddam's Blood Qur'an, and now I imagine that one of the Victorian divisional generals had as his personal project a Blood Bible made from the lives of criminals and Cultural Marxists executed for defying Christ and this is how they give back. Possibly in Appalachia?? [Victorian TURBOHERESY intensifies]

(I'll probably be finding a way to omake these at some point. Probably in the form of an Journalistic expose of Victorian smuggling and crime. Real Iran-Contra hours in like, West Africa or something.)
1) I can't really speak to organized crime.
We do know that significant portions of the KGB turned to the Russian Mafia after the collapse of the Soviet Union in the 90s, so it's possible you'll see significant portions of CIA/DEA-descended factions out in the black market. But there was still a nation to parasitise.

If those factions exist, look to the Western Seaboard, out of Cali into Cascadia, and New Mexico/Texas/Mexico.
Because California serves as an existing significant economy with trade links into those areas for organized crime to parasitize.

2)I think I pointed this out before, but Victoria is quite wealthy. Has to be.

Alexander handed them some of the most immediately profitable chunks of Canada on a platter, and even with Russian megacorporations skimming off the cream of the output, ideological fixations, and their general economic mismanagement, there is a lot of money there just from exploiting the excess hydroelectric power generation of Quebec .

And that's without accounting for the general exploitation of the rest of the continent, like the Farmer's Federation and the Lakes communities.

You do not run an expeditionary force of a hundred and twenty thousand light infantry, an extra forty thousand men in mechanized formations, over a hundred jet fighters and a continent-spanning network of spies aid workers every year for at least three decades on a shoestring budget, even while living off the land.

Vic intelligence does not need organized crime to make money.
They might need it/use it for gathering intelligence, mind, exerting influence and keeping tabs on parts of the country they seldom visit.
But they don't need it for the money.

3) Like I pointed out earlier, opium and it's heroin end product gets out-competed in a world of fentanyl and oxycodone.
Especially if you are attempting plantation scale agriculture with slave indentured workers with no real incentive to make you money.
And the fentanyl producer has lower costs, too, both due to having to feed fewer workers, lower shipping costs, and less product loss.

Not to mention that with South America quite capable of growing it's own product, thank you very much, the only other markets are Europe, Africa and Russia/India. Europe and Africa as destinations incur significant transport costs post-Collapse*makes hand gestures* with Victoria sabotaging all industry above the machine shop level, no narcosubs, and you can't fly a loaded Cessna across the Atlantic.

And given the IADS in Western Europe, you'd probably get shot down anyway.

And Russia?The Okhrana will not be well pleased by Victoria doing that.
Where you're likely to see organic drug production mushroom are Pakistan and Afghanistan, where they are going to be produced and shipped into India and Russia overland, where there are customers who can pay for it. And even there I suspect chemists will outcompete farmers.

5) The problem with Miami making a grab for the Mississipi is all the people living there, who might have opinions about it.
I mean, the mouth of the Mississipi is obviously a strategic location, but the whole New Orleans-Baton Rouge axis is going to have a lot of people with strong opinions about their neighbors.

While they might want to, I don't think Miami currently have the power projection to militarily secure the mouth of the Mississipi, and their diplomacy was not focused that way previously. They'll be going in from a cold start. I do suspect there will be significant conflict there in the next couple years though, as multiple warlords and microstates try their luck to dominate the area.

6) Eww. Some things I could have done without knowing.

I mean, there's weird, and there's weird. And there's no indication that Victorian state religion as envisioned by Lind embraces the sort of folk syncretism that would embrace this sort of thing, especially if parallels can be drawn to a similar practice by, horrors, a brown Muslim Mohammedan. And one without a history of martial glory, either.

Do recall how much Victorian internal security worries about their raiders picking up external beliefs.
Enough that they get occasionally deployed with CMC political escorts, not counting the unofficial CMC agents in the division.
It's really not the sort of thing I suspect they will tolerate, unlike say rapine, kidnapping and murder.

A Victorian client-state with some warlord type doing this? Yeah, sure; imperfect tools and all.
A Vic general? Nah.

EDIT
7) You were looking for plot hooks? Here's one:

Hawala - Wikipedia

There is going to be a significant US diaspora, possibly in the tens of millions.
How do they move money to friends and loved ones in the absence of a banking system? Something like this.
Is allegedly responsible for 1.6 billion dollars worth of remittances to Somalia alone each year.

**********
Ok another omake
The Crown Dependence and the Collapse and aftermath By Professor Callum McKenney, MBE, OBCB.
The Crown Dependencies of Mann and the Channel Islands have always inhabit an unusual place in the political structure of the United Kingdom both before and after the Collapse.
Jumping off this.

One of the things I find we overlook is that the UK is just off the coast of Europe. And Ireland remained a member of the EU.
There's even a Channel tunnel between the UK and France, which people can literally walk if all the train and truck services stopped working. People aren't just going to sit in one place and starve; if Britain collapses due to political mismanagement, excess population will cross the Channel.

The UK has 66 million people or so.
Assuming we're looking at Syrian civil war refugee levels of migration, where 25% of the population are external refugees outside the country, that's maybe 17 million people. The EU sans Britain is 446 million. That would be around 3.8%.

For comparison, Germany, population 83 million, currently has 1.3 million refugees, which is 1.5% of their population.
And their total population is 14% immigrant.

Assume not all of the British went to the EU, with some to parts of Africa (Kenya/South Africa/parts of West Africa) and others to Australia/NZ and South America. Call it half of that 17 million, leaving the EU dealing with 8.5 million British refugees, not counting the Americans and Canadians.

Might also be one reason for some of the political instability in France next door; British Brexit propaganda did them no real favors in the rest of the continent, but France produces an agricultural surplus, and always has. So in the event that the British government fucked the goat in an economic crisis so badly that food supply actually became a problem, France and the other Channel nations would see large numbers of Brits.

Parties like le Pen's neo-fascist hard-right National Front have always looked for wedge issues to ride into power, and while one of their planks has primarily been opposition to non-white non-European immigration, it doesn't take very much to extend that to post-Brexit British immigrants.
Which could quite easily lead the country to splinter if they gained enough support to control a couple regions.
 
According to the canon omakes, they are still the constitutional figurehead monarchs of the UK.

You know, a British monarch recognizing a Canadian faction as a the government of Canada and appointing a Canadian Governor-General would be a massive legitimacy boot to the Canadian faction in question. Not that it's possible yet, but when Alex actually kicks the bucket...
 
You know, a British monarch recognizing a Canadian faction as a the government of Canada and appointing a Canadian Governor-General would be a massive legitimacy boot to the Canadian faction in question.
The fact that its a distent member of the Royal Family also helps that matter effectively. I enjoy the greater mystery of "The Rest of the World".
Not that it's possible yet, but when Alex actually kicks the bucket...
Tsar Alexander: *Dies*

Canadian Revivalists: *New Objective unlocked*: Reclaim the BIRTHRIGHT!!

I had to use that meme.
 
Last edited:
You know, a British monarch recognizing a Canadian faction as a the government of Canada and appointing a Canadian Governor-General would be a massive legitimacy boot to the Canadian faction in question. Not that it's possible yet, but when Alex actually kicks the bucket...

I mean you say that, but not really? Canada's basically still technically a monarchy out of habit at this point and not out of any loyalty or legitimacy issues. There's no reason to change it because it doesn't actually do enough to be worth getting rid of. (My prefered "solution" to the monarchy issue IRL is to just ignore it when QE II leaves the throne and keep putting her on the money anyway until the end of time and change none of the stationary. Everyone is happy.)

A generation and a half after the country blew up it would be a total "Literally who?" moment. And it would count for negative with anyone that isn't maximum settler-colonial anglobrain and would be at most a "oh yeah, that" for anyone old enough that remembers and doesn't instantly hate the idea.
 
Last edited:
I mean you say that, but not really? Canada's basically still technically a monarchy out of habit at this point and not out of any loyalty or legitimacy issues. There's no reason to change it because it doesn't actually do enough to be worth getting rid of. (My prefered "solution" to the monarchy issue IRL is to just ignore it when QE II leaves the throne and keep putting her on the money anyway until the end of time and change none of the stationary. Everyone is happy.)

A generation and a half after the country blew up it would be a total "Literally who?" moment. And it would count for negative with anyone that isn't maximum settler-colonial anglobrain and would be at most a "oh yeah, that" for anyone old enough that remembers and doesn't instantly hate the idea.

I disagree. Canada's tradition of being the senior British dominion is a big part of its national identity. I could see Quebec and the First Nations not caring that much, but for the overwhelming majority of Canadians I imagine it would be a pretty powerful symbol. A mere generation and a half after the collapse of the country anything that hearkens back to the old Federal Canada is going to be pretty popular.

Why would anyone instantly hate the idea?
 
Voting is open
Back
Top