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Doesn't Burns have a ton of Anti-insurgency experience from middle east fighting?
Burns has 1-2 tours worth of experience as a grunt, 50-60 years ago. He's now an officer rather than a grunt, so he doesn't have the full picture, and time has almost certainly dulled his recollections of anti-insurgency work the way it has dulled his recollections of working with air support.

It starts with reconnaissance flights. Ron Burns has never had the luxury of air support -- well, not never. Decades ago, he used to work with planes. But for decades, he's been on his own, unsupported, under a hostile sky. Although he dimly remembers the lessons of air power from the old days, he was never Air Force, and it has been too long. He hardly knows what to do with a good set of planes.

Granted, it's probably not quite as severe because he's done a fair bit of stuff reminiscent of insurgency work while trekking around CONUS, but the point remains that Burns is probably pretty busy doing all of the staff to have been able to put recruits through anti-insurgency training full time. There probably isn't enough of the 70-80 year old US soldiers with practical experience kicking around, so unless anti-insurgency tactics were passed on 20-30 years ago it's probably too late to do so now.
 
Y'know, before the Commonwealth was founded, most people would say that, outside of FCNY and the NCR, non-Abrahamic faiths are pretty much dead and gone as organized groups -- and that Jews mostly keep their heads down.

But you know, there's been this astounding amount of them coming into the Commonwealth, especially since Detroit. Funny, that.

Eh, the belief about organized groups being dead makes sense to me. In an america where Victoria constantly sends out "aid workers" to various towns and settlements, i see only two ways to survive. The first is to live a nomadic life, alone or in small groups, constantly staying ahead of Victoria. The Other method is to hide and hope that your neighbors are tolerant enough to not betray you at the first appearance of Victoria. That pretty much kills of any chance of organized groups of any size beyond the normal family group. However, many modern groups (At least in america) are really decentralized, especially those that fall under the category of Pagans. So the fact that an astounding amount are appearing doesn't surprise me, since most are probably either somewhere in the wilderness or hidden well enough in the cities that maybe even neighboring townsfolk wouldn't know.
 
( @PoptartProdigy , am I wrong? I believe we have no icebreakers capable of handling the Lakes' ice. I'd love to be wrong.)
Well, the old ones are still around in one place or another, and you have a few, a couple of which are theoretically still functional, and of those one of them takes diesel, which you can, in limited amounts, supply. That said, the damned thing is over a century old, and you only call it theoretically functional because you tested it a couple of times and it didn't immediately explode. You have absolutely no plans to run wartime logistics from the deck of that ship. That's why I made a point of your forces taking time to establish an overland route of supply; it's your only realistic option for winter supply.
Eh, the belief about organized groups being dead makes sense to me. In an america where Victoria constantly sends out "aid workers" to various towns and settlements, i see only two ways to survive. The first is to live a nomadic life, alone or in small groups, constantly staying ahead of Victoria. The Other method is to hide and hope that your neighbors are tolerant enough to not betray you at the first appearance of Victoria. That pretty much kills of any chance of organized groups of any size beyond the normal family group. However, many modern groups (At least in america) are really decentralized, especially those that fall under the category of Pagans. So the fact that an astounding amount are appearing doesn't surprise me, since most are probably either somewhere in the wilderness or hidden well enough in the cities that maybe even neighboring townsfolk wouldn't know.
It wasn't supposed to be surprising. I was being snarky. :p
 
Well, the old ones are still around in one place or another, and you have a few, a couple of which are theoretically still functional, and of those one of them takes diesel, which you can, in limited amounts, supply. That said, the damned thing is over a century old, and you only call it theoretically functional because you tested it a couple of times and it didn't immediately explode. You have absolutely no plans to run wartime logistics from the deck of that ship.
Yeah; high risk that the hull's rusted out and that is BAD on an icebreaker for obvious reasons. Realistically we'd be using the icebreaker to make room for other ship(s), but it's still not really tenable if that's the state of our fleet.

We could build icebreakers, but that's a long term project.

That's why I made a point of your forces taking time to establish an overland route of supply; it's your only realistic option for winter supply.
Does the math hold up for us being able to maintain that overland supply line during the winter?

Because between the state of the roads and the snowfall, it's gonna be tough.
 
Does the math hold up for us being able to maintain that overland supply line during the winter?

Because between the state of the roads and the snowfall, it's gonna be tough.
It's...doable. You can clear roads more reliably than you can ice, and Detroit is helping some by laying down quick asphalt strips over the worst areas (makes you fairly popular with the locals, for all that this isn't a lasting investment. They're starting to like hosting soldiers, as long as those soldiers bring their own supplies, have an incentive to build vital infrastructure, don't actually fight in the vicinity, and aren't there to purge one in a hundred of them). It won't be pleasant, but you can handle it if you're careful with your supplies. Then again, the initial plan called for you to be starting to retreat if you hadn't driven the Victorians back to the peace table by December, so...this is an unpleasant eventuality to be having to confront.

If operations continue as they have been, you can absolutely do it. If things devolve into the intense combat you've been expecting...well, let's just say Burns is bringing up a lot of supplies for forward ammo dumps. You couldn't sustain a large enough flow of supplies, but it helps in stockpiling, so...doable. It's just not a comfortable feeling to have to stockpile like that in order to have enough on hand.
 
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Are we going to be able to bring extra food supplies for the local populace?

I don't doubt the CMC took more food than they should have.
 
Does the math hold up for us being able to maintain that overland supply line during the winter?

Because between the state of the roads and the snowfall, it's gonna be tough.
Kinda depends on the weather, really. Snowfall alone probably isn't enough to stop it from being viable unless it's a particularly bad storm or the region is seeing a lot more snow then usual - Southern Ontario gets a fair amount of snow, but very rarely does it come in more than 2-3 inches at once. As long as we're sending trucks back and forth shuttling supplies along the route it'd be easy enough to rig a snowplow onto them and have them clear the roads as they pass. It'd slow them down, but that'd only be a few hours added on each way - and that's easy enough to plan around.

The bigger issue is if the weather is mild enough to produce lots of ice/slush on the way, because while plowing is doable salting or sanding is probably not - and that'll slow the trucks down to between half and two-thirds as fast as they normally go. It's workable, but we'll need to stock up a little before winter comes to make it work.

Aand, ninja'd by the QM.
 
That's.... Wrong. Very wrong. Trust me. Despite experience, we once decided to just eyeball it instead of walking the measurements and our wire was fucked. We prettied it up to pass but it would be easily dislodged.
I'll take your word for it.

The real problem is IED. Still, in Iraq, Iraqi kids routinely gave away such ambushes for food and hey, this time, they speak English.
No cellphones. No wireless door openers. None of the thousand and one commercial radio transmitters used by insurgents for remote detonators.
Limited supplies of military grade explosive, and no ammonium nitrate fertilizer for ANFO, not in a city. And the CMC stripped the city of any cars and trucks that survived the disastrous supply expedition which they'd use for car bombs, as well as any other supplies of military utility..

I'm sure they will try IEDs.
I suspect that it will be much harder than they presumed.

First, to be clear as @Simon_Jester noted, any actions are contingent on making sure Buffalo is secure. It will most likely be acting as our primary logistic base unless a mass attack has our retreat across the river.

The main thing about would be all about selling fiction. With a lowered artillery usage from lower intensity fighting, we can afford more time. This is all about selling the fiction that this is actually, really an invasion with plans to stay. Towns would be taken, firmly secured, local governments replace-remodeled. Selling the idea that we are planning to remold Victorian society, and our slow advance is simply our natural machine-like plans.

The theoretical advantage is first is makes sure that the territory we take is firmly secured against insurgency. The second advantage is that when Blackwell talks about our technological prowess, he is rational. it is dangerous, it needs to be addressed, but he wants to address it rationally, take what is needed to defeat us. A problem, a dangerous one, but one that is rational. His response to our society, however.
COMMENTARY
1)That's not really a bluff we can sell.

Blackwell is well aware that if he can beat the CMC, Russia will come in fully on his side. We cant fight Blackwell with full Russian backing on Victorian soil. Especially with no sugar daddy/mommy of our own. It would be different if we had EU or Chinese heavy lifters airlifting stuff into Chicago or Detroit, and their diplomats advocating for us on the international stage.

If we attempt what you're suggesting, we're not inflicting the kind of pressure that would bring dude to the negotiating table for fear of actually losing to the CMC.

I think we get better results by sticking to the original plan.

2) Victoria practices collective punishment. Everyone knows this, most of all their own citizens. Rumors of Vic towns vanishing exist by WoG.
The CMC just drew a massive number of conscripts, unwilling or not, from Buffalo. If Blackwell wins, they are probably dead or in slave-labor camps in the far north. Worse, their families are all fucked. And the civilians in Buffalo know this.

This is probably a threat to be considered when acting against other Victorian cities or towns.

3) The fighters in the city are not Buffalo natives.

They're probably drawn from the militia who were besieging the city when the CMC was here, and who got their shit kicked in when the CMC left with 20,000 Buffalo men in tow. They really were not going to be disposed to be kind to the city and it's inhabitants when they moved in after the CMC left. Especially given the general attitude of Vic ideology towards citydwellers.

Add to this the general unhappiness of civilians with warplans that involve torching their homes....
We can go some way to stealing their loyalties, or at least their services, with some judicious maneuvering. The more so since we probably have to feed these people; they probably have backyard gardens, but no food production. And women weren't allowed to do mens work like fishing.

Roll well, and we could steal the entire city, which would be a propaganda coup of epic proportions, with seismic effects on Vic society.

We are so dangerous that wives cannot be taken. Women, who would be single individuals with no training, isolated from everything they know, having just seen their country fall, are so dangerous as to be an existential threat.
We need to set up a 24 hour entertainment and music channel, with an emphasis on Old Country music.
Bonus points for Canadian and Quebecois programming
Blackwell is terrified of cultural contamination. Best give him something to worry about.

We'll want to see if they're willing to spill about the Inquisitors directing them, as without those coordinating the militia's attempt at bloodying us through asymmetric warfare/managing a network of whispers that no doubt would lead to reprisals on any Victorians who do give us information, the population will likely be more receptive to our efforts.
That's below the level of abstraction.


Doesn't Burns have a ton of Anti-insurgency experience from middle east fighting?
To have served in the Middle East?
He would have had to be at least 18 years old to have been an enlisted man, or at least 21 to have been a fresh West Point graduate in 2016, when the then POTUS got the US booted from foreign bases around the world.

That would make him between 77 and 80 years of age in the current year of 2075CE quest time.
That's why I think it's...unlikely that he was old enough to have any experience in the Middle East at all.
My personal estimates are that Burns is in his early to mid-60s. Think JK Simmons, who is 65.

Young enough to survive what remains a hard active life, even now.

@PoptartProdigy
QUESTION
Do we know IC which city the other CMC division was originally holed up in? We should have enough prisoners and radio transmissions to give some idea. Because that is important to assess the impact that the rebellion has had thus far on the Vic economy and military ability. And what nodes we should be aiming at hitting.

If they were both in New York State, thats one thing.
If the second CMC division was based out of Boston, biggest city in Victoria and thus necessary to keep an eye on because subversive elements, and fought their way out of there like some mutant chestburster, trashing everything in their wake.....well then.
 
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COMMENTARY
1)That's not really a bluff we can sell.

Blackwell is well aware that if he can beat the CMC, Russia will come in fully on his side. We cant fight Blackwell with full Russian backing on Victorian soil. Especially with no sugar daddy/mommy of our own. It would be different if we had EU or Chinese heavy lifters airlifting stuff into Chicago or Detroit, and their diplomats advocating for us on the international stage.

If we attempt what you're suggesting, we're not inflicting the kind of pressure that would bring dude to the negotiating table for fear of actually losing to the CMC.

I think we get better results by sticking to the original plan.

I doubt he thinks can beat them within a year, and using having a year to contaminate his beautiful, pristine society, even if he knows that once the CMC is beaten he can beat us. This is all about selling that social fear. But yes, the time of the plan is it's the downside and raiding key warmaking points is probably our best bet.

Add to this the general unhappiness of civilians with warplans that involve torching their homes....
We can go some way to stealing their loyalties, or at least their services, with some judicious maneuvering. The more so since we probably have to feed these people; they probably have backyard gardens, but no food production. And women weren't allowed to do mens work like fishing.

Tho like, if we can get the womenworking, that's gonnna be another point they know they are on the purging for.

We need to set up a 24 hour entertainment and music channel, with an emphasis on Old Country music.
Bonus points for Canadian and Quebecois programming
Blackwell is terrified of cultural contamination. Best give him something to worry about.

 
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No cellphones. No wireless door openers. None of the thousand and one commercial radio transmitters used by insurgents for remote detonators.
It would be entirely unsurprising for Victoria to have a stockpile of such things. This would not be an illogical place for Blackwell to release some of them.

Remember that the presence of these militia acting in this role at all indicates some degree of planning on Blackwell's part. Victoria, even in a civil war, is a nation-state and may well have resources far superior to what an insurgent group can achieve without nation-state support.

To have served in the Middle East?
He would have had to be at least 18 years old to have been an enlisted man, or at least 21 to have been a fresh West Point graduate in 2016, when the then POTUS got the US booted from foreign bases around the world.

That would make him between 77 and 80 years of age in the current year of 2075CE quest time.
That's why I think it's...unlikely that he was old enough to have any experience in the Middle East at all.
My personal estimates are that Burns is in his early to mid-60s. Think JK Simmons, who is 65.

Young enough to survive what remains a hard active life, even now.
@PoptartProdigy has specifically confirmed the '75-80' version. He's very old, and doesn't exactly lead from the front these days.

I... think you're trying too hard to deduce the truth instead of asking or looking it up.
 
The explanation about roads made me think we could go the Roman way if we try. Armies aren't bad at building up the land they go through, if they're built around the complete reverse of what Victoria's doctrine create.
 
We could, but we'd need dedicated engineering units and a lot of training. It's far from out of the question, but I doubt we're up for it during this specific campaign.
 
I doubt he thinks can beat them within a year, and using having a year to contaminate his beautiful, pristine society, even if he knows that once the CMC is beaten he can beat us. This is all about selling that social fear. But yes, the time of the plan is it's the downside and raiding key warmaking points is probably our best bet.
He has to believe it.

We're not a shortterm existential military threat, but given a year of unopposed control of the Lower Four lakes, and to work on the Mississipi......
And there are all the other places that Victoria has been stepping on, who have just watched them get shitstomped, fall into internal fighting, and then get counter-invaded. New York is only the closest; even bands in Pennsylvania will be getting ideas.

Just as we have a clock, so does he.
Tho like, if we can get the womenworking, that's gonnna be another point they know they are on the purging for.
I think Victorian women work.
Being hypocritical fascisti, working inside the home extends to a lot of agricultural labor. And then theres permissible work outside the home; those diners that the Victorian General Staff used to do their work in were not staffed by men. And the resorts.

But there's a sex segregation about acceptable work for women.
And I suspect that you're right that what we'd consider acceptable work for women would get them purged by Blackwell's forces.
*snip Footloose clip*
Exactly. :p
@PoptartProdigy has specifically confirmed the '75-80' version. He's very old, and doesn't exactly lead from the front these days.
I... think you're trying too hard to deduce the truth instead of asking or looking it up.
Perhaps.
I do remember his background being that he was a captain who took control of the battalion after a senior officer was incapable post-Pacific War.
And US Army captains average 28-29, with those in their thirties being either prepping for promotion or retrirement; majors average in their early 30s.

Still, might as well ask:
@PoptartProdigy
How old is Burns?
 
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Buffalo will be lightly but strangely competently fortified)
Anyone else find this line intensely worrying?
Nope, it made me worry too.
COIN (Counter Insurgency), as outlined by David Petraeus. John Nagl
General Petraeus, being the general, put his name on the FM. Most of the actual work and theory was by LTC (ret) John Nagl, the actual COIN expert. Wrote Learning to Eat Soup with a Knife: Counterinsurgency Lessons from Malaya and Vietnam, for example.

Well, the Vicky strategy is revealed: try to bog us down with guerillas. We have a couple of advantages, though.

#1 - We don't need or want to really drive far into the Victorian heartland any further.
#2 - Buffalo is likely to be much happier with us around once we start feeding them, and show them we're not the Orcs of Vicky propaganda.
#3 - The biggest challenge in winning a counterinsurgency is convincing people you're the better choice over the guerrillas. Just not being Victorians will go miles for us there. Just treating them like liberated people instead of Victorian serfs will win a good chunk of them over right off.

So we occupy Buffalo, dig in hard, and spend the winter making it too tough a nut for Augusta to get back short of Russia handing them a few divisions of tanks. We feed the locals, make ourselves popular with the area, and just settle in. We can see if we can make the Buffalo Airport useable by F-16s or our prop planes for future ops, but they really need rest and refit for spring. Same with the Navy.

All we need to do is sit and make it too hard for Victoria to make us leave. Let's not stretch any further until we've had a good long while to build up for such.
 
Our access to petroleum of any kind is extremely limited. Effectively speaking, in the area around the Commonwealth, our available fuels are wood, coal, and biodiesel. Biodiesel competes directly with food people need to live and the Commonwealth has food security problems. So biodiesel is right out.

Again, Diesel engines can run on just about anything if you build them to do so. We fuel them with "diesel" because the stuff was a super-cheap waste product at the time and nowadays it is still fairly plentiful and so many engines run on it that it is easier to make replacement fuels that replicate the properties of diesel fuel than it is to start manufacturing a dozens or hundreds of diesel models for different fuels.

And you can make biodiesel just fine from stuff that isn't food. The reason we don't do so in the here-and-now is because of labour cost, convenience and food being cheap.

There would have predictably come some point at which the railroads in and around Commonwealth territory shut down for lack of fuel supplies. To continue in operation beyond that point would require engines capable of running on locally available fuel, even if that meant extensive changes. Building water tanks for steam engines beside an already existing right-of-way can be done by localized decentralized pillaged governments that run on the scale of city-states. Importing bulk quantities of diesel fuel cannot.

Obviously, I mean, that's why Africa off-grid electricity in Africa comes mainly from locally built steam engines instead of diesel generators running on imported fuel.

Oh, wait...

The army itself may be less vulnerable, but the supply lines are decidedly not less vulnerable.

In fact, they are. There's a reason why Napoleon was only seriously troubled by raids on his supply lines in Spain - because in Spain the French army was unable to maintain their momentum, where elsewhere in Europe, they were in and out before sufficient resistance could organize behind their lines. It is difficult to organize attacks on supply lines when you don't know where the enemy will be by the time you're able to get the attack organized.

You see a similar story in the Great Patriotic War where the German army was not overly troubled by resistance behind their lines (indeed, they left entire armies behind their lines) until they were unable to maintain their momentum.

Of course, you'll note that in both of these examples, the attacking army had the will to maintain their momentum - they were held back by physical constraints and Napoleon/Hitler setting bad goals.

So if we act decisively and choose the wrong goals, our supply lines absolutely will be meat for the 5th generation warriors we're facing. But this doesn't mean that decisive aggressive moves are in and of themselves bad. The real question is whether they are in service of a realistic, achievable goal.

fasquardon
 
Just as we have a clock, so does he.

I think Victorian women work.
Being hypocritical fascisti, working inside the home extends to a lot of agricultural labor. And then theres permissible work outside the home; those diners that the Victorian General Staff used to do their work in were not staffed by men. And the resorts.

But there's a sex segregation about acceptable work for women.
And I suspect that you're right that what we'd consider acceptable work for women would get them purged by Blackwell's forces.
Exactly. :p

Oh absolutely. Both in the sense oh "holy shit do you have any idea how much work maintaining a household is without modern appliances". But also in the sense that many of the work they do that isn't acknowledged. Granted, this is my personal interpretation and @PoptartProdigy is our enlighted QM, but I see a central mechanism of control in Victoria as guilt. The expectations of Victoria are such that people cannot hold all their obligations (donations, social commitments, restrictions) without cheating. The upper classes of Victoria do this through greater access to resources via the state giving them the loot of America, and through the social expectations being that ordinary people will voluntarily contribute time and work.

This means that the lower classes have to cheat in other ways. Little deals, getting donations from the upper classes, breaking social convention. This creates guilt and obligations. "The colonel is so nice to help feed my family, I owe him." "I am terrible because I do men's work in accounting." "I grow a garden that isn't public, I'm terrible." This is a huge part of the lever of social control. When Victoria rampages through the continent, the reactions are fear and anger at the terrible injustice. When they abuse those within their borders, the reaction is "I deserve this."
 
So we occupy Buffalo, dig in hard, and spend the winter making it too tough a nut for Augusta to get back short of Russia handing them a few divisions of tanks. We feed the locals, make ourselves popular with the area, and just settle in. We can see if we can make the Buffalo Airport useable by F-16s or our prop planes for future ops, but they really need rest and refit for spring. Same with the Navy.
Note that if you're hoping to stay over the winter, you need to budget to feed possibly hundreds of thousands of refugees.

A season of fighting and the mobilization of the militia during harvest season means food shortages. At least in New York State, possibly in all of Victoria. And while the Vics can and will import food, Blackwell will prioritize soldiers and productive areas.
The CMC don't control Victoria's treasuries or the machinery of state, so who knows what their longterm plans are.

So if anyone is providing free food, you're going to see movement. Depending on how bleak the winter is.
Of course, it turns out Lake Ontario doesn't freeze over during most winters, and so winter fishing to supplement meals is possible.
So that should help while we control the banks of the Niagara.

If we get an international aid appeal going, they can fly food aid right into the Buffalo airport as long as we keep it clear.
The Boeing 747-8F will move 140 tons of freight in one cargo flight, so you can get food in, especially if it's enriched concentrate.
Dunno if the GM wants to wrangle with those sorts of details though. Or if anyone would donate food to feed Vics.
Oh absolutely. Both in the sense oh "holy shit do you have any idea how much work maintaining a household is without modern appliances". But also in the sense that many of the work they do that isn't acknowledged. Granted, this is my personal interpretation and @PoptartProdigy is our enlighted QM, but I see a central mechanism of control in Victoria as guilt. The expectations of Victoria are such that people cannot hold all their obligations (donations, social commitments, restrictions) without cheating. The upper classes of Victoria do this through greater access to resources via the state giving them the loot of America, and through the social expectations being that ordinary people will voluntarily contribute time and work.

This means that the lower classes have to cheat in other ways. Little deals, getting donations from the upper classes, breaking social convention. This creates guilt and obligations. "The colonel is so nice to help feed my family, I owe him." "I am terrible because I do men's work in accounting." "I grow a garden that isn't public, I'm terrible." This is a huge part of the lever of social control. When Victoria rampages through the continent, the reactions are fear and anger at the terrible injustice. When they abuse those within their borders, the reaction is "I deserve this."
This.
 
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Again, Diesel engines can run on just about anything if you build them to do so. We fuel them with "diesel" because the stuff was a super-cheap waste product at the time and nowadays it is still fairly plentiful and so many engines run on it that it is easier to make replacement fuels that replicate the properties of diesel fuel than it is to start manufacturing a dozens or hundreds of diesel models for different fuels.

And you can make biodiesel just fine from stuff that isn't food. The reason we don't do so in the here-and-now is because of labour cost, convenience and food being cheap.
You still have to make biodiesel from stuff that grows, and spend labor gathering and processing it. In a society where food scarcity isn't an issue, that's probably fine. Otherwise, you get a situation where there just aren't enough people working on the biofuel plants (as opposed to subsistence farming) to sustain fuel-hungry industries. Fuel that is 'ready to go' and easily gathered on short notice, such as wood, or fuel that is relatively high energy density and versatile, such as coal that can also be burned to provide essential heating, tends to become more attractive.

We have coal mines in our territory. And the Victorians probably allowed us to continue mining coal during the pre-Accords era when Vicks roamed our land at will, because they import coal and we could export it to them.

We have coal.

We don't have cheap, easy, attractive alternatives that can be used to power diesel engines reliably. If we did, we'd have oil-fired gunboats, and we don't. That choice would not have been made without a good reason, and it is strong evidence that our supply of ersatz fuel for diesel engines simply is not as reliable and large as you are asserting that it is.

Obviously, I mean, that's why Africa off-grid electricity in Africa comes mainly from locally built steam engines instead of diesel generators running on imported fuel.

Oh, wait...
Africa HAS ACCESS to imported fuel supply chains that are reliable and consistent. Note that African militaries with warships ALSO choose warships that run off imported diesel fuel or other liquid fuels. The Chicago Navy did not. This suggests that fuel supply security is a major consideration influencing the Commonwealth's decisions about what kinds of fuels it can and cannot use.

As an example of this, Britain was a slow adopter of oil-fired warships, precisely because they had lots of coal on their island, but effectively no oil. They knew that relying heavily on oil for the sustenance of their military or industrial economy would make them much more vulnerable to blockades and commerce warfare. I can only infer that the Commonwealth faces similar problems- importing diesel fuel for generators required the pre-2073 proto-Commonwealth region to appease Victorians, and was discouraged, whereas mining coal was tolerated and even required of them.

Military and political pressures can make a hash out of finely calculated and reasoned "logically this MUST be true because it is the mathematically optimal course of action" arguments like the one you've been relying on to assert that Commonwealthers don't know how to work steam engines when our entire navy is relying on coal-fired ships that presumably have a steam power plant.

In fact, they are. There's a reason why Napoleon was only seriously troubled by raids on his supply lines in Spain - because in Spain the French army was unable to maintain their momentum, where elsewhere in Europe, they were in and out before sufficient resistance could organize behind their lines. It is difficult to organize attacks on supply lines when you don't know where the enemy will be by the time you're able to get the attack organized.

You see a similar story in the Great Patriotic War where the German army was not overly troubled by resistance behind their lines (indeed, they left entire armies behind their lines) until they were unable to maintain their momentum.
Both the Germans and the Napoleonic French had an advantage we don't: their supplies weren't all moving in through a fixed bottleneck. We're unloading everything in (or through) Buffalo. If we had had our forces dispersed widely across the countryside when the Vick militia commander in and around Buffalo decided to start openly fighting, they'd know exactly where to attack to hurt us.

Of course, you'll note that in both of these examples, the attacking army had the will to maintain their momentum - they were held back by physical constraints and Napoleon/Hitler setting bad goals.

So if we act decisively and choose the wrong goals, our supply lines absolutely will be meat for the 5th generation warriors we're facing. But this doesn't mean that decisive aggressive moves are in and of themselves bad. The real question is whether they are in service of a realistic, achievable goal.
Given that highly aggressive armies have been defeated many times in history, by marching into places they couldn't secure or leaving themselves vulnerable to encirclement or being cut off...

I don't think aggression is as reliable a shield against Bad Shit as you act like it is.

So if anyone is providing free food, you're going to see movement. Depending on how bleak the winter is.
Of course, it turns out Lake Ontario doesn't freeze over during most winters, and so winter fishing to supplement meals is possible.
So that should help while we control the banks of the Niagara.

If we get an international aid appeal going, they can fly food aid right into the Buffalo airport as long as we keep it clear.
The Boeing 747-8F will move 140 tons of freight in one cargo flight, so you can get food in, especially if it's enriched concentrate.
Dunno if the GM wants to wrangle with those sorts of details though. Or if anyone would donate food to feed Vics.
Note that we ourselves are staring down the barrel of a food security crisis and will need to take further actions to increase our own food supply in this coming turn.
 
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Note that we ourselves are staring down the barrel of a food security crisis and will need to take further actions to increase our own food supply in this coming turn.
Oh, I remember. I voted for the food option last turn, IIRC.

But we're halfway through dealing with it internally, and with trade reopened with our neighbors, we can do the trade thing as well. The Vics, OTOH.....ain't no American gonna sell food to a Vic on credit without being coerced. Hell, I don't think anyone other than a Russian with Alex's explicit instructions will sell anything to the Vics on credit. Rumford and his disciples were entirely too gleeful in demonstrating themselves untrustworthy.

So it's either charity or nothing.
 
All we need to do is sit and make it too hard for Victoria to make us leave. Let's not stretch any further until we've had a good long while to build up for such.
Doubly so since, no matter what, they HAVE to come to us.

We, the dreaded foe, have invaded sacred Victorian soil. And not just any soil, a major port for them. This isn't just some backwater village they can claim was never Victoria proper.

Both the CMC and Loyalists have to respond, both to shore up their credentials of being "the true leaders of Victoria", and because they need this port and any wealth it brings in for them.
 
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