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[ ][ISLANDS] Siege. Under constant, focused, withering artillery bombardment from naval and shore-based batteries, on soft, level ground, and with no real entrenching gear, the islands will be unable to hold out even if given an untouched supply line by air. Erode them over weeks of artillery bombardment, landing only once all activity has either ceased or been thoroughly suppressed.
I am completely opposed to spending lives for better propaganda. That's essentially the argument for Assault: A "quick" "easy" victory to make our anti-Victoria message stronger. Never mind that we'll inevitably loose lives in doing this, or that a bad roll of the dice could give the Victorians the kind of last stand that they can spin to their benefit. We should be ruthless to our enemy, but not to our own soldier's lives.
Shells. Our industry isnt akin to WW1 Britain. We going to have a massive shell shortage if we keep consumption rates high.
My favourite would be a siege thats just targeted at naval and aerial resupply, letting them die on the vine but even this might cut into our active coal reserves.
Hence, an assault might ultimately save lives down the road by allowing us to rebuild our expenditure.
Even if we do invest AP in expanding industry, our mobilisation efforts is still going to be hampered by a siege. Ditto to actually expanding our forces and combat readiness.
We have so far slaughtered basically their entire army in exchange for relatively limited losses, much of which we hope/expect to be able to make good out of captured battlefield equipment salvaged from their defeated forces.
Unfortunately we lack the force projection capability to follow up with an attack on their heartland, but we're off to a decent start I'd say.
Our industry may not be WWI Britain, but on the other hand, we're supplying shells for, like... fifty or sixty guns, total. It's not actually that many compared to the kind of enormous barrages you saw in WWI trench combat.
The British alone fired 1.75 million shells during the preparatory bombardment and the first day on the Somme, from about 1400 guns. We're looking at literally a few percent of that expenditure of ammunition.
We already have institutional experience with amphibious assaults via our marines. We are perfectly capable of training our army to do assaults based on the experience and teachings of dedicated 2/5 quality troops Nor can I see this in any way helping us to develop new doctrines, as the troops here are are the last remains of the current army, fanatic, fully infantry, and underequipped. The next time we perform an assault will likely be against a very different army, as such any doctrinal experience here is of extremely questionable value, as it will be based on opposed landings against light infantry with no possibility of reinforcement. Since we can replicate the training, this makes any landing valuable only as a live-fire exercise. And live-fire exercises are for Victorians.
To be fair there actually ARE things you need to know to plan an amphibious landing that have very little to do with the enemy's actual fighting strength.
For example, how to combat-load landing craft properly, and for that matter what goes into a proper landing craft. We arguably have this knowledge in theory, but speaking in-character our military officers would have very limited comprehension of this from their own experience, and it's very rare for a genius to come up with a good plan purely based on theoretically foreseeable problems and stuff someone else figured out a century ago.
To be fair there actually ARE things you need to know to plan an amphibious landing that have very little to do with the enemy's actual fighting strength.
For example, how to combat-load landing craft properly, and for that matter what goes into a proper landing craft. We arguably have this knowledge in theory, but speaking in-character our military officers would have very limited comprehension of this from their own experience, and it's very rare for a genius to come up with a good plan purely based on theoretically foreseeable problems and stuff someone else figured out a century ago.
I would also point out that the Victorians may very well be using something like an RPG-29 with modern warheads, or even the next generation past that again. Or even if they do use RPG-7s they may, again, have received modern warheads for it. It is an easy way to increase the firepower of light infantry and doing so while being able to pretend they are mostly using retrogear.
Keep in mind that even almost 40 years after its introduction, the Russians loathe to deploy RPG-29s even with their own troops, let alone those of other nations. They're basically the top tier anti tank weapon of the Russian Federation, and they do not want them to fall into the hands of rival powers.
RPG-29s remain ridiculously rare even today. In four tours of Iraq, I recall them being shot at our tanks in my Battalion only four times, in 2007. They were, however, reliably able to penetrate the armor about 50% of the time, as long as the angle was pretty flat.
In response to the current tendered request for operational vessels from the Commonwealth, we have decided to submit a specialized proposal.
We propose the development of a unified weapon of victory. A Heavy Command Cruiser, designed to coordinate our vast arsenal of weapons from the air in complete safety. It will of course be outfitted with the latest weapons - a mixed arsenal of air to air missiles, long ranged anti-aircraft batteries, and specialized laser systems for advanced point defense, all powered by an onboard nuclear reactor. Because no conventional airfield will be large enough to successfully house the aircraft, it will be capable of landing on any medium or greater sized body of water, greatly obfuscating potential basing sites to the enemy.
For offensive armaments, we have taken the liberty of developing an advanced long range air to air and air to surface cruise missile code-named HELIOS. When launched from the Heavy Command Cruiser or a supplementary Horizon Strike Platform, the HELIOS missile is guided to its targets by GPS satellites in high orbit. To further improve accuracy, MQ-121 Markerlight drones will be deployed to saturate the enemy airspace, allowing us to guide in HELIOS with lethal precision. Outfitted with a high-powered non-radioactive thermonuclear warhead, the HELIOS missile will be able to sweep a target area clean of all enemy forces, allowing for our ground and air forces to sweep up the mess in with relative ease.
With a theoretically infinite range thanks to a combination of nuclear and solar power, the heavy command cruiser will be able to respond to any incident on the North American continent within 8 hours with its complement of 40 F-35C and 20 F-18G fighter aircraft and an onboard Marine strike element with specialized deployment systems. When operating in conjunction with the supplementary Horizon Strike Platform, also known as the MA-230 Arsenal Bird, the Heavy Command Cruiser will be capable of completely dominating North American air space. With this aircraft, any threat to our nation and our command and control capabilities will become a thing of the past.
The current designation of the new Heavy Command Cruiser proposal is P-1112 AIGAION.
Furthermore, in addition to both AIGAION, HELIOS, and Arsenal Bird, two more supplementary aircraft are being developed as part of our ongoing Aerial Fleet Initiative. These aircraft consist of a large scale airborne support battleship P-1114, and a large scale electronic warfare aircraft P-1113. Their corresponding designations are GYGES and KOTTOS, respectively.
Overall, we estimate that the cost for our Aerial Fleet Initiative, when combined with supplementary aircraft like the Horizon Strike Craft, will be well south of 60 billion dollars, placing it well within the budgets of the Commonwealth. We sincerely hope that your esteemed generals will consider our proposals and the ramifications for your nation's security, and that you make the right choice.
In response to the current tendered request for operational vessels from the Commonwealth, we have decided to submit a specialized proposal.
I propose the development of a unified weapon of victory. A Heavy Command Cruiser, designed to coordinate our vast arsenal of weapons from the air in complete safety. It will of course be outfitted with the latest weapons - a mixed arsenal of air to air missiles, long ranged anti-aircraft batteries, and specialized laser systems for advanced point defense, all powered by an onboard nuclear reactor. Because no conventional airfield will be large enough to successfully house the aircraft, it will be capable of landing on any medium or greater sized body of water, greatly obfuscating potential basing sites to the enemy.
For offensive armaments, we have taken the liberty of developing an advanced long range air to air and air to surface cruise missile code-named HELIOS. When launched from the Heavy Command Cruiser or a supplementary Horizon Strike Platform, the HELIOS missile is guided to its targets by GPS satellites in high orbit. To further improve accuracy, MQ-121 Markerlight drones will be deployed to saturate the enemy airspace, allowing us to guide in HELIOS with lethal precision. Outfitted with a high-powered non-radioactive thermonuclear warhead, the HELIOS missile will be able to sweep a target area clean of all enemy forces, allowing for our ground and air forces to sweep up the mess in with relative ease.
With a theoretically infinite range thanks to a combination of nuclear and solar power, the heavy command cruiser will be able to respond to any incident on the North American continent within 8 hours with its complement of 40 F-35C and 20 F-18G fighter aircraft and an onboard Marine strike element with specialized deployment systems. When operating in conjunction with the supplementary Horizon Strike Platform, also known as the MA-230 Arsenal Bird, the Heavy Command Cruiser will be capable of completely dominating North American air space. With this aircraft, any threat to our nation and our command and control capabilities will become a thing of the past.
The current designation of the new Heavy Command Cruiser proposal is P-1112 AIGAION.
Furthermore, in addition to both AIGAION, HELIOS, and Arsenal Bird, to more supplementary aircraft are being developed as part of our ongoing Aerial Fleet Initiative. These aircraft consist of a large scale airborne support battleship P-1114, and a large scale electronic warfare aircraft P-1113.
Their corresponding designations are GYGES and KOTTOS, respectively.
Overall, we estimate that the cost for our Aerial Fleet Initiative, when combined with supplementary aircraft like the Horizon Strike Craft, will be well south of 60 billion dollars, placing it well within the budgets of the Commonwealth. We sincerely hope that your esteemed generals will consider our proposals and the ramifications for your nation's security, and that you make the right choice.
So, this is obviously tongue-in-cheek, but I can use it for constructive criticism for other shipbuilders anyway.
First of all: Submitted not via PM, but in the thread.
Second: No mention of which proposal it is attempting to fill.
Third: Does not mention its performance figures, instead opting to speak in broad generalities which, despite making a very nice elevator pitch, do not aid the Commission's work in determining the best design for the Commonwealth's present needs. Of cost, in particular, there is absolutely no mention.
Fourth: Completely disregards the stated technological limitations.
So, this is obviously tongue-in-cheek, but I can use it for constructive criticism for other shipbuilders anyway.
First of all: Submitted not via PM, but in the thread.
Second: No mention of which proposal it is attempting to fill.
Third: Does not mention its performance figures, instead opting to speak in broad generalities which, despite making a very nice elevator pitch, do not aid the Commission's work in determining the best design for the Commonwealth's present needs. Of cost, in particular, there is absolutely no mention.
Fourth: Completely disregards the stated technological limitations.
So, this is obviously tongue-in-cheek, but I can use it for constructive criticism for other shipbuilders anyway.
First of all: Submitted not via PM, but in the thread.
Second: No mention of which proposal it is attempting to fill.
Third: Does not mention its performance figures, instead opting to speak in broad generalities which, despite making a very nice elevator pitch, do not aid the Commission's work in determining the best design for the Commonwealth's present needs. Of cost, in particular, there is absolutely no mention.
Fourth: Completely disregards the stated technological limitations.
Technically it is a Flying Boat, but if your commission is unwilling to accept our total aerospace dominance proposal, I will respectfully withdraw the submission from this competition. However, should the need for a Heavy Command Cruiser become necessary... well, you all know who to call.
Yeah, but they're too small to actually seize all these islands against a division-sized force. From what I can tell, they're basically accustomed to operating in platoons or companies at most, deployed directly from our gunboats.
That's totally different matter than launching large-scale amphibious assaults. It doesn't require anything like the same degree of equipment and tactical specialization. Our marines, while no doubt professional, are far more like the 'marines' of Age of Sail naval warfare. Effectively, small infantry units that happen to be transported aboard warships and available for things like "hey, take a couple dozen guys and go sneak ashore in rowboats and blow up that shore battery that's threatening us." This is not an organization you'd have storming the beaches at Normandy.
By analogy, the US had a Marine Corps in World War One- it was even pretty big. But we had no clue how to conduct a modern amphibious landing until considerable thought and effort was put into the matter in the late 1930s and early 1940s.
In response to the current tendered request for operational vessels from the Commonwealth, we have decided to submit a specialized proposal.
We propose the development of a unified weapon of victory. A Heavy Command Cruiser, designed to coordinate our vast arsenal of weapons from the air in complete safety. It will of course be outfitted with the latest weapons - a mixed arsenal of air to air missiles, long ranged anti-aircraft batteries, and specialized laser systems for advanced point defense, all powered by an onboard nuclear reactor. Because no conventional airfield will be large enough to successfully house the aircraft, it will be capable of landing on any medium or greater sized body of water, greatly obfuscating potential basing sites to the enemy.
For offensive armaments, we have taken the liberty of developing an advanced long range air to air and air to surface cruise missile code-named HELIOS. When launched from the Heavy Command Cruiser or a supplementary Horizon Strike Platform, the HELIOS missile is guided to its targets by GPS satellites in high orbit. To further improve accuracy, MQ-121 Markerlight drones will be deployed to saturate the enemy airspace, allowing us to guide in HELIOS with lethal precision. Outfitted with a high-powered non-radioactive thermonuclear warhead, the HELIOS missile will be able to sweep a target area clean of all enemy forces, allowing for our ground and air forces to sweep up the mess in with relative ease.
With a theoretically infinite range thanks to a combination of nuclear and solar power, the heavy command cruiser will be able to respond to any incident on the North American continent within 8 hours with its complement of 40 F-35C and 20 F-18G fighter aircraft and an onboard Marine strike element with specialized deployment systems. When operating in conjunction with the supplementary Horizon Strike Platform, also known as the MA-230 Arsenal Bird, the Heavy Command Cruiser will be capable of completely dominating North American air space. With this aircraft, any threat to our nation and our command and control capabilities will become a thing of the past.
The current designation of the new Heavy Command Cruiser proposal is P-1112 AIGAION.
Furthermore, in addition to both AIGAION, HELIOS, and Arsenal Bird, two more supplementary aircraft are being developed as part of our ongoing Aerial Fleet Initiative. These aircraft consist of a large scale airborne support battleship P-1114, and a large scale electronic warfare aircraft P-1113.
Their corresponding designations are GYGES and KOTTOS, respectively.
Overall, we estimate that the cost for our Aerial Fleet Initiative, when combined with supplementary aircraft like the Horizon Strike Craft, will be well south of 60 billion dollars, placing it well within the budgets of the Commonwealth. We sincerely hope that your esteemed generals will consider our proposals and the ramifications for your nation's security, and that you make the right choice.
"Hush you, before I build an improbably giant cannon and fire you out of it. I'm much more of an improbable giant cannon person than a flying battleship person."
"No, it won't be for blowing up asteroids, to hell with that shit, if I'm going to have a giant impractical superweapon I damn well want to use it. I haven't gotten a good chance to use my full-power evil cackle in years..."
My guess, we're helping with island cleanup. Marines are going to handle a lot, but some of the islands out there are big. One company ain't gonna handle everything.
We'll take losses attacking the island but the Victorian forces there lack supplies and we have artillery supremacy. It's better to get our teething issues out of the way now than when we need to do landings later. We've got campaigns in lake superior and the Mississippi to look forward to remember.
I'm not sure that we do lack supplies, since two whole lakers full of goodies stopped at those islands, loaded someone or something, and then left not carrying the supplies.
I suspect the Victorians on those islands are about as well equipped as any Victorian army unit ever is.
For the vote options, this is something that I'm really torn about. I mean, I can see some pros and cons for each action that make me hesitate to fully commit to one for each topic. That isn't something I've experienced much in a quest before, so well done. Also...
Personally, I made my design with both our limitations technologically speaking and industrially speaking in mind--basically we don't need a high speed low drag all big gun big dick destroyer. We just need a frigate or corvette with more gun than anyone else on the Lakes is likely to have.
I would like to petition that if or when we invade Victoria proper that we blast Primo Victoria while doing it. The sheer cognitive dissonance it will cause by sounding like it is praising them while singing about killing nazis will make their heads spin. Bonus points if we do it during while doing an amphibious landing.
One good thing about having to rebuild industry, education and society from the brink? We can finally defeat a backwards enemy that has plagued America longer than even the Vicks.
The Imperial Measurement System.
Finally free, free to join the glorious, logical, sensible Metric System! Not to mention cast-off Fahrenheit and join wonderful, correctly scaled Celsius or better still show how far we've come and even move ahead of the times and use Kelvin Scale to measure temperature!
Imagine, wanting to go from, like, an actually kind of sensible system of measurement of temperature which offers much more flexibility in day to day living to some bullshit cooked up by some 18th century jackass for any reason at all.
I'm thinking that we should just besiege the last holdouts, the Russians can't airlift big enough arms to beat off the bombarding vessels - if anything whatever they drop on the islands will be free loot for us.
And IMO we need to sell our story, there's a risk in not letting the process be fully organic making our narrative seem less real, especially because it would be a much more powerful contrast with a much better funded and experience propaganda machine in Russian hands which will seem to be selling a constructed narrative but there's just too many outside parties and spotty comms involved to trust that the right message will get through unfiltered to local people and the hearts and minds of people aboard. Plus the Russians have a lot more work to put into making a good story compared to us so we have a head start, and we don't know how many resources they'll give to help the Vicks given the troubles they are facing back home.
The Vicks I don't think have any PR capability that's not chest-thumping and Orwellian fact distortion, which wouldn't impress foreign audiences at the best of times and sounds particularly hollow, perhaps even highlights their weakness at the worst of times. And for them, this is the darkest hour. So they probably don't want to give any more blood to the water and let the Russians, who have if not credibility then at least respectability handle this disaster (for them).
We're going to struggle to export industrial goods to far-foreign places; they have a higher-tech industrial base and better factory automation.
Plus, note that we're trading with lots of little polities scattered all over our immediate neighborhood, too. We have lots of trade, so much that the Independent Merchants bonus is netting us +3 AP/turn. And much of that is with people who would probably prefer we continue using the units of measurement they're familiar with.
Actually, that makes me wonder, @PoptartProdigy considering that a massive amount of ships were impressed into service for the Victorian "Navy" and the foraging, pillage, burn and rape doctrine of the Vicks how badly was the regional economy disrupted and/or damaged during the Eris Campaign?
Actually, that makes me wonder, @PoptartProdigy considering that a massive amount of ships were impressed into service for the Victorian "Navy" and the foraging, pillage, burn and rape doctrine of the Vicks how badly was the regional economy disrupted and/or damaged during the Eris Campaign?
Ah shit that's true. Who knows how many of the ships we sunk were ones that visited and traded in Chicago. Granted a good few would've likely been from Victorian territory in the first place, but still sad.
Imagine, wanting to go from, like, an actually kind of sensible system of measurement of temperature which offers much more flexibility in day to day living to some bullshit cooked up by some 18th century jackass for any reason at all.
holy shit i thought nobody else read victoria. i never expected "secessionist steam/britpunk right-wing trash" to be a thing, and then I read that book, and then I was so terribly confused as to how it came to be. just every single thing about that book was wrong
I just wanted to say, it's interesting seeing this also happen in Fitzpatrick's War, where the hardy survivalist reactionary post-American state of Yukon also fetishizes olde Britain. I wonder if there are any other examples in fiction? I have a theory for why, but it touches upon real-world politics so might not belong here.
Armor should be built exclusively for splinter protection and proof against .50 caliber machine gun fire, save for the decks, which should be proof against 120mm mortar fire.
To the best of my knowledge, this is not physically possible within the weight constraints given. Not just in our techbase, but anyone's.
120s are BIG, with a yield equivalent to a 155mm artillery shell.
As Strypgia mentioned here, the US Army has lost a Bradley IFV in Iraq to a direct hit from a 120.
The kind of armor you'd need to protect a ship against what's essentially plunging fire from a six inch gun?
Is prohibitive.