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Victoria Falls: A Post-Collapse American Nation Quest [Down With Victoria!]

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PoptartProdigy said:
Poland: Legends will be written of Poland. The only nation to survive the Collapse, maintain governmental continuity, and actively oppose Russia's expansion. The only nation to maintain the fighting for fifty long years. The nation that utterly destroyed itself trying -- and largely failing -- to keep the border from moving further west. Poland fed itself into the fires of intrigue trying to stop Russia's ambitions. The best that can be said is that they slowed Russia down, when dealing with nations directly bordering Poland. They did not fall, at least, and Alexander certainly intended for them to. But they did not fall. These days they are utterly incapable of fighting anymore. They are the front of the still-cold conflict with Russia, but have no capacity to participate. They have maintained membership in the EU, and now are completely dependent on it. They gave everything, and perhaps managed to give the rest of Europe time. They try to find that adequate consolation, as Germany steps past them into a leading role in Europe.
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An illustrated version of Poland's History, post-Collapse:



God speed you magnificent bastards. God speed.
 
Given the rate of industrial expansion during wartime I have to wonder how Poptart is going to handle the design and production of 21 different ship classes over three-five years, six aircraft variants, new army gear and increased industrial output. Assuming that the quest continues into and through WWIII.

Also the environment is going to be completely buggered after this.
 
KhazintheDark said:
Given the rate of industrial expansion during wartime I have to wonder how Poptart is going to handle the design and production of 21 different ship classes over three-five years, six aircraft variants, new army gear and increased industrial output. Assuming that the quest continues into and through WWIII.

Also the environment is going to be completely buggered after this.
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Probably gonna leave it to us to figure out. I think that's where the Des-Plaines class came from.
 
aceraptor said:
When did the NCR say that it's gonna launch its bid for freedom? 2 years from the start?

Huh. If they do succeed then the Russians will be hit with a double whammy of their Victorian puppet getting mauled (if we succeed in this battle) and California revolting in quick succession.

Edit: also. Next turn we are gonna have to bite the bullet and crush the Unionists. That's all least 2 actions we need to put into it. We need to do it while they are off balance before they get reorganized and reentrenched.
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Why this turn, and no other turn?

We have like 6 AP next turn, total. We're probably going to want to expand our supply of war materiel (more gunboats and/or AA weapons), and we have significant diplomatic needs (Hostile Neighborhood is being leveraged against us, plus we REALLY should think about telling the story of our war to the outside world so that Victoria doesn't get to control the narrative of the Battle of Detroit).

I mean yes, breaking the Unionists would be nice, but there are good reasons why we might choose to focus on other priorities.
 
aceraptor said:
When did the NCR say that it's gonna launch its bid for freedom? 2 years from the start?

Huh. If they do succeed then the Russians will be hit with a double whammy of their Victorian puppet getting mauled (if we succeed in this battle) and California revolting in quick succession.

Edit: also. Next turn we are gonna have to bite the bullet and crush the Unionists. That's all least 2 actions we need to put into it. We need to do it while they are off balance before they get reorganized and reentrenched.
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Next turn we are 3 actions down because of the embargo, plus whatever actions we use to lift it. Not to mention any actions we need to take post Detroit, win or lose.
 
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clockworkchaos said:
Next turn we are 3 actions down because of the embargo, plus whatever actions we use to lift it. Not to mention any actions we need to take post Detroit, win or lose.
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I'm not even sure the Victorians won't still be there around Detroit as of the time we take our Spring 2076 (Turn 5) actions.

Also, @PoptartProdigy , I'm a bit confused about the timeline. All this military action is, I gather, taking place in the springtime, but is it the springtime of 2075 or '76? And when we vote on the Turn 4 actions, will we be voting on what the government was doing over the winter of 2075-76, or the first half of 2076?
 
Simon_Jester said:
I'm not even sure the Victorians won't still be there around Detroit as of the time we take our Spring 2076 (Turn 5) actions.

Also, @PoptartProdigy , I'm a bit confused about the timeline. All this military action is, I gather, taking place in the springtime, but is it the springtime of 2075 or '76? And when we vote on the Turn 4 actions, will we be voting on what the government was doing over the winter of 2075-76, or the first half of 2076?
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Possibly, but a few things argue against that the Victoria army is large, needs to be supplied, and can't be supplied over the lake during the winter. If they are they are going to hurt. Secondly, Victoria's love their maneuver warfare, which ideologically demands action, so no the digging in to go through winter.

Assuming the Battle isn't actively ongoing, I actually suggest we focus away from the military. We know Victorias won't be able to follow up on this, thus we should take the advantage to focus on long-term development or vital short term opportunities (Battle of Detroit narrative).
 
Simon_Jester said:
I'm not even sure the Victorians won't still be there around Detroit as of the time we take our Spring 2076 (Turn 5) actions.

Also, @PoptartProdigy , I'm a bit confused about the timeline. All this military action is, I gather, taking place in the springtime, but is it the springtime of 2075 or '76? And when we vote on the Turn 4 actions, will we be voting on what the government was doing over the winter of 2075-76, or the first half of 2076?
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Er, 2075. Why is that in confusion?
 
clockworkchaos said:
Possibly, but a few things argue against that the Victoria army is large, needs to be supplied, and can't be supplied over the lake during the winter. If they are they are going to hurt. Secondly, Victoria's love their maneuver warfare, which ideologically demands action, so no the digging in to go through winter.

Assuming the Battle isn't actively ongoing, I actually suggest we focus away from the military. We know Victorias won't be able to follow up on this, thus we should take the advantage to focus on long-term development or vital short term opportunities (Battle of Detroit narrative).
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Alternatively Victoria needs to attack Detroit to get supplies, otherwise their army sits uselessly and starves. Also there's more than a single battle in a month and we just lost whatever we had as an airforce while they still have some up and running so it's getting worse before it gets better.
 
KhazintheDark said:
Alternatively Victoria needs to attack Detroit to get supplies, otherwise their army sits uselessly and starves. Also there's more than a single battle in a month and we just lost whatever we had as an airforce while they still have some up and running so it's getting worse before it gets better.
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That's not an alternative, that's exacly what I am saying will happen.
 
Sadly First Contact day was 12 years ago. Presumably some Victorian or Russian somewhere in Montana beat Cochran to death with a lead pipe fifteen years ago.
 
PoptartProdigy said:
Er, 2075. Why is that in confusion?
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Well, the Turn 2 vote took place some time in the later half of 2074. Events following our Turn 2 vote took place in the winter of 2074-75, including people freezing to death from our incomplete success-ish-thing on the housing crisis.

Then we had the Turn 3 vote on what to do after that, which I figured meant that those decisions were being made, oh, some time in like... February or March of 2075.

But then our heavy military equipment got to Detroit "just before the Straits of Mackinac froze over, which implies some time in... I don't know what month that normally happens in, but let's say December or January.

If so, then either we'd deployed our troops to Detroit by January-February 2075 (which suggested a very busy autumn and winter, effectively containing two turns' worth of action), or we'd more or less skipped the year.

It complicated matters somewhat that I don't think we know what month the declaration of war itself took place in, exactly.

clockworkchaos said:
You have successfully deployed military forces to Detroit, and they proceeded to spend the entire winter and spring digging in. The city is as prepared as it can be. -1 Military AP.

Implies a year passed between this and the battle.
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I mean. It's okay if some of our voted-on spring actions take place during the first half of the year chronologically.

It's just that when we've got seasonal events like "the Great Lakes freeze solid," it's fairly important to keep track of the calendar, more so than in, say, Terminus Quest.

I may try to patch together a month-by-month timeline later today, circumstance permitting.

...

EDIT:

You know what Chicagoland needs?

Icebreakers.

You know what it's alarmingly possible the Victorians have, what with how they are vassals to the world's leading producer of that particular class of thing?

Also icebreakers.

AKuz said:
Sadly First Contact day was 12 years ago. Presumably some Victorian or Russian somewhere in Montana beat Cochran to death with a lead pipe fifteen years ago.
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Alternatively, he gave up the project as impossible under present conditions and is out there, somewhere, waiting for the time to be right.

I don't give up that easily.
 
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Simon_Jester said:
Alternatively, he gave up the project as impossible under present conditions and is out there, somewhere, waiting for the time to be right.

I don't give up that easily.
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Probably a better option than reaching 2156 and when we're finally having the final showdown with Russia, instead we have Romulan Marines dropping out of the sky and going "Hey fuckers! Guess who rules your pathetic asses now?" In the most lopsided possible version of the Earth-Romulan War.
 
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AKuz said:
Probably a better option than reaching 2156 and when we're finally having the final showdown with Russia, instead we have Romulan Marines dropping out of the sky and going "Hey fuckers! Guess who rules your pathetic asses now?" In the most lopsided possible version of the Earth-Romulan War.
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AND THEN THE CYBER-CROWS DESCEND
 
Simon_Jester said:
But then our heavy military equipment got to Detroit "just before the Straits of Mackinac froze over, which implies some time in... I don't know what month that normally happens in, but let's say December or January.

If so, then either we'd deployed our troops to Detroit by January-February 2075 (which suggested a very busy autumn and winter, effectively containing two turns' worth of action), or we'd more or less skipped the year.

It complicated matters somewhat that I don't think we know what month the declaration of war itself took place in, exactly.
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As described in the action, the mobilization was effective as of the previous turn, given that the war declaration was sent in autumn and it wouldn't be fair or sensible of me to say, "...and then the Commonwealth sat and did nothing for the remaining three months of the year." This was a concession to the fact that reality does not occur in biannual intervals, and I was willing to fudge.
 
KhazintheDark said:
Alternatively Victoria needs to attack Detroit to get supplies, otherwise their army sits uselessly and starves. Also there's more than a single battle in a month and we just lost whatever we had as an airforce while they still have some up and running so it's getting worse before it gets better.
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The Victorians aren't going to find enough supplies on the Canadian side to keep their army alive, I suspect. There's a lot of room here to shift civilians and food stockpiles across the river, and the Victorians haven't shown any meaningful ability to interfere with that process. They certainly won't find ammunition or spare military equipment of other kinds waiting for them. And attacking further into Windsor, towards Detroit and the river in front of it, will rapidly burn through their ammunition.
 
Between disease, hunger, and getting riddled with shrapnel, that army is going to be quite miserable. So long as we can hold out, General Winter will finish them.
 
Rivenscryr said:
Between disease, hunger, and getting riddled with shrapnel, that army is going to be quite miserable. So long as we can hold out, General Winter will finish them.
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It's still spring.

In my assessment, if the Victorian landing force on that peninsula can hold out until winter, it will represent one of the greatest feats accomplished by a cut-off army since Xenophon led the Ten Thousand. Speaking of which, they would probably do better to retreat eastward, walking along the lake shore and pillaging the Canadian side as they go to make it back to Victorian territory. At least that way most of their force would survive. But it's unlikely that the Victorian commanders will think of that, though Xenophon is likely on their minds at least a little at moments like this.
 
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