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Victoria Falls: A Post-Collapse American Nation Quest [Down With Victoria!]

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Blackstar said:
Because we already have good security, and intelligence kinda doesnt stack very well for later on.
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...I mean, why wouldn't it, come to think of it?

[X] Accept the offer. Victoria will have air superiority in the upcoming battle; you can merely hope to cut down on the damage. This is one way, and it'll hurt their other forces as well. The NCR is a power on the continent; their good intentions are a valuable thing to court. Of course, despite how believable mass equipment breakdowns would be among Victorian forces, there's always the chance that the NCR's duplicity could be discovered. A Russian crackdown on the NCR would mean that your prospective friend on the West Coast would be permanently turned into a bitter enemy.

[X] 1-point option: Industry Advisors

[X] 1-point option: Intelligence Advisors
 
Jesus Christ! Take out the assassin by overkilling the intelligence ASAP! What if the assassin kills Burns next turn!? Or someone important we really need!?

INTELLIGENCE ADVISOR NOW!
 
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[X] Accept the offer. Victoria will have air superiority in the upcoming battle; you can merely hope to cut down on the damage. This is one way, and it'll hurt their other forces as well. The NCR is a power on the continent; their good intentions are a valuable thing to court. Of course, despite how believable mass equipment breakdowns would be among Victorian forces, there's always the chance that the NCR's duplicity could be discovered. A Russian crackdown on the NCR would mean that your prospective friend on the West Coast would be permanently turned into a bitter enemy.

[X] 1-point option: Industry Advisors

[X] 1-point option: Intelligence Advisors

[X] Bargain on the deal. The Commonwealth of Free Cities will recognize the NCR when they declare independence 3 years down the line and provide military aid should the situation go hot. In exchange, the NCR will covertly supply anti-air equipment in addition to sabotaging their weapons shipments to Victoria. More risk for the NCR and more commitment on your end, but you gain a reliable supply of anti-air weapons and support equipment to help in exploiting the NCR's sabotage.
 
kilopi505 said:
Jesus Christ! Take out the assassin by overkilling the intelligence ASAP! What if the assassin kills Burns next turn!?
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Would the adviser even arrive in time to prevent that? And even then it is trusting another state to train our intelligence operatives.. something that could go wrong as the NCR is explicitly militaristic and expansionistic.

Edit: Plus its going to at best make our intelligence apparatus more effective, so the assassin could probably still get a few hits in.
 
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Blackstar said:
Would the adviser even arrive in time to prevent that? And even then it is trusting another state to train our intelligence operatives.. something that could go wrong as the NCR is explicitly militaristic and expansionistic.
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Limit the damage as early as possible. And the NCR being expansionistic? Well we can negotiate that into a political union that satisfies both sides!

Diplomacy, diplomacy, diplomacy!

Also, isn't the desired end state 1 U.S.A. in the very end?
 
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kilopi505 said:
Limit the damage as early as possible. And the NCR being expansionistic? Well we can negotiate that into a political union that satisfies both sides!

Diplomacy, diplomacy, diplomacy!
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This is directly asking them to train our intelligence branch. They would then be perfectly set up to infiltrate us and probably be able to actually cripple our government unlike greatest SIN.

Edit: Remember at this current point the situation is closer to early 20's China, with the landmass split into nations, with the only thing keeping themselves off each other is the external threat.
 
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Blackstar said:
This is directly asking them to train our intelligence branch. They would then be perfectly set up to infiltrate us and probably be able to actually cripple our government unlike greatest SIN.
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Then state that talks for political unification in the future is available. Start talking about it early and make it so that they are dealing not with someone hostile but someone who wants a political union amenable to both sides!

Diplomacy and Compromises! Take refuge in audacity!
 
Blackstar said:
This is directly asking them to train our intelligence branch. They would then be perfectly set up to infiltrate us and probably be able to actually cripple our government unlike greatest SIN.
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Expansionist, likely. However, it is to their advantage to have us serve as a buffer state against the Victorians, who are likely to be quite savage on the ground, much as their occupation forces were against the old Pacific Republic.

We're a bit too distant for them to easily absorb, unlike Arizona and Nevada, which are practically next door to California, and we are well poised to be a major pain in the arse to Victoria, so I suspect they will want us to remain effective. Consider how much more we'd get from promising to help them militarily than if we just promised diplomatic recognition, despite knowing that we wouldn't be able to send much to the West.
 
kilopi505 said:
Jesus Christ! Take out the assassin by overkilling the intelligence ASAP! What if the assassin kills Burns next turn!? Or someone important we really need!?

INTELLIGENCE ADVISOR NOW!
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Please calm your caps lock key and, if you agree with me, actually vote accordingly. :p

Blackstar said:
Would the adviser even arrive in time to prevent that? And even then it is trusting another state to train our intelligence operatives.. something that could go wrong as the NCR is explicitly militaristic and expansionistic.
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Our existing Good Security will hopefully prevent us from trusting NCR agents too far.

On some level, we have to trust someone. The ultimate goal is to reunite the United States, and we're not going to be able to do that without building ties and trust with some of the other successor states.

Edit: Plus its going to at best make our intelligence apparatus more effective, so the assassin could probably still get a few hits in.
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Anything that reduces the number of hits is probably very good, given just how BAD the assassin is as a malus.
 
[X] Accept the offer. Victoria will have air superiority in the upcoming battle; you can merely hope to cut down on the damage. This is one way, and it'll hurt their other forces as well. The NCR is a power on the continent; their good intentions are a valuable thing to court. Of course, despite how believable mass equipment breakdowns would be among Victorian forces, there's always the chance that the NCR's duplicity could be discovered. A Russian crackdown on the NCR would mean that your prospective friend on the West Coast would be permanently turned into a bitter enemy.

[X] 1-point option: Industry Advisors

[X] 1-point option: Intelligence Advisors

[X] Bargain on the deal. The Commonwealth of Free Cities will recognize the NCR when they declare independence 3 years down the line and provide military aid should the situation go hot. In exchange, the NCR will covertly supply anti-air equipment in addition to sabotaging their weapons shipments to Victoria. More risk for the NCR and more commitment on your end, but you gain a reliable supply of anti-air weapons and support equipment to help in exploiting the NCR's sabotage.
 
Changing my vote to:

[X] Accept the offer. Victoria will have air superiority in the upcoming battle; you can merely hope to cut down on the damage. This is one way, and it'll hurt their other forces as well. The NCR is a power on the continent; their good intentions are a valuable thing to court. Of course, despite how believable mass equipment breakdowns would be among Victorian forces, there's always the chance that the NCR's duplicity could be discovered. A Russian crackdown on the NCR would mean that your prospective friend on the West Coast would be permanently turned into a bitter enemy.

[X] 1-point option: Industry Advisors

[X] 1-point option: Intelligence Advisors

[X] Bargain on the deal. The Commonwealth of Free Cities will recognize the NCR when they declare independence 3 years down the line and provide military aid should the situation go hot. In exchange, the NCR will covertly supply anti-air equipment in addition to sabotaging their weapons shipments to Victoria. More risk for the NCR and more commitment on your end, but you gain a reliable supply of anti-air weapons and support equipment to help in exploiting the NCR's sabotage.
 
[X] Accept the offer. Victoria will have air superiority in the upcoming battle; you can merely hope to cut down on the damage. This is one way, and it'll hurt their other forces as well. The NCR is a power on the continent; their good intentions are a valuable thing to court. Of course, despite how believable mass equipment breakdowns would be among Victorian forces, there's always the chance that the NCR's duplicity could be discovered. A Russian crackdown on the NCR would mean that your prospective friend on the West Coast would be permanently turned into a bitter enemy.

Literally the only reason I'm picking this over deny is keeping the lines of communication open.
 
[x] Altered Deal Variant Iandude0


[X] Warfare By Various Other Means
2 points
Intelligence advisors
Schematics for industrial equipment

[X] Healing The Tail
2 points
Intelligence advisors
Schematics for agricultural equipment

[X] Gondor Calls For Aid
2 points
Diplomatic advisors
Intelligence advisors
 
[X] Accept the offer. Victoria will have air superiority in the upcoming battle; you can merely hope to cut down on the damage. This is one way, and it'll hurt their other forces as well. The NCR is a power on the continent; their good intentions are a valuable thing to court. Of course, despite how believable mass equipment breakdowns would be among Victorian forces, there's always the chance that the NCR's duplicity could be discovered. A Russian crackdown on the NCR would mean that your prospective friend on the West Coast would be permanently turned into a bitter enemy.

[X] 1-point option: Intelligence Advisors
 
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[x] Bargain on the deal. The Commonwealth of Free Cities will recognize the NCR when they declare independence 3 years down the line and provide military aid should the situation go hot. In exchange, the NCR will covertly supply anti-air equipment in addition to sabotaging their weapons shipments to Victoria. More risk for the NCR and more commitment on your end, but you gain a reliable supply of anti-air weapons and support equipment to help in exploiting the NCR's sabotage.
 
AKuz said:
[] Accept the offer. Victoria will have air superiority in the upcoming battle; you can merely hope to cut down on the damage. This is one way, and it'll hurt their other forces as well. The NCR is a power on the continent; their good intentions are a valuable thing to court. Of course, despite how believable mass equipment breakdowns would be among Victorian forces, there's always the chance that the NCR's duplicity could be discovered. A Russian crackdown on the NCR would mean that your prospective friend on the West Coast would be permanently turned into a bitter enemy.

Literally the only reason I'm picking this over deny is keeping the lines of communication open.
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Hm. Is there something about the NCR that bothers you, @AKuz , or about the prospect of some of the 'advisor' options, or some such thing?
 
As of this time, and since @PoptartProdigy made the "oi" post, we have:
-7 votes in favor of a clean "accept" proposal: "Agree to recognize the NCR when they rebel, in exchange only for the warning and the sabotage of Victorian equipment."
-7 votes in favor of "Agree to join the NCR in fighting the Russians and any pro-Russian forces in three years' time, in exchange for piles of industrial stuff"
-7 votes in favor of "Agree to join the NCR in fighting the Russians and any pro-Russian forces in three years' time, in exchange for SAMs"
-5 votes in favor of "Bargain for industrial advisors, while still only agreeing to recognize the NCR."
-4 votes in favor of "Bargain for intelligence advisors, while still only agreeing to recognize the NCR."

There are a number of other options with some support, but listing them could get a bit wearing.

If we go back to the 'vote open' post, we have a 27-26 lead in favor of "clean Accept" over "bargain for SAM shipments from the NCR."

AKuz said:
I'm mostly afraid of failing the roll and dont really feel a huge desire to take large risks right now.
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As someone proposing things more conservative than most and avoiding the 2pt and 3pt strategies, I can certainly respect that.
 
I'm in favour of not making any earthshaking moves right now. We're not in the best position, there are still fires to put out, and we don't have a full grasp of either the game or our own capabilities yet. Don't go adding too much to the broth straight up.

That being said, I'm not totally against getting an NCR observer for our intelligence community, provided we're sensible about how much they're given.
 
Everyone, let's go pick intelligence advisors to sweep out the Victorian Symphatizers and the Victorian Super Assassin ASAP!
 
To restate my position: I believe that working with the NCR, in any capacity, is unwise. Sabotaging stuff they are sending is no extra work to them and acknowledging them is no extra work for us. However neither of us is in any position to provide meaningful material aid to the other. Us because we flat out don't have the capability. Them because it will be obvious they are doing so. Which means when Russia comes it will squash us both.

[X] Deny the offer. You frankly do not feel ready to trust the NCR. They've changed since you last were there, and you've heard some foreboding things about how militaristic they were in expanding into Arizona and Nevada. Plus, separated from you as they are by the Rockies, they would make a poor ally. Obviously, the NCR will be far cooler towards you, and you would have no help with resisting the Victorians' attack.
[X] Accept the offer. Victoria will have air superiority in the upcoming battle; you can merely hope to cut down on the damage. This is one way, and it'll hurt their other forces as well. The NCR is a power on the continent; their good intentions are a valuable thing to court. Of course, despite how believable mass equipment breakdowns would be among Victorian forces, there's always the chance that the NCR's duplicity could be discovered. A Russian crackdown on the NCR would mean that your prospective friend on the West Coast would be permanently turned into a bitter enemy.
 
[X] 2-point option: Industry Advisors and Industry Equipment Technologies (schematics)
[X] 2-point option: Industry Advisors and Intelligence Advisors
 
[X] Accept the offer. Victoria will have air superiority in the upcoming battle; you can merely hope to cut down on the damage. This is one way, and it'll hurt their other forces as well. The NCR is a power on the continent; their good intentions are a valuable thing to court. Of course, despite how believable mass equipment breakdowns would be among Victorian forces, there's always the chance that the NCR's duplicity could be discovered. A Russian crackdown on the NCR would mean that your prospective friend on the West Coast would be permanently turned into a bitter enemy.

[X] 1-point option: Industry Advisors

[X] Bargain on the deal. The Commonwealth of Free Cities will recognize the NCR when they declare independence 3 years down the line and provide military aid should the situation go hot. In exchange, the NCR will covertly supply anti-air equipment in addition to sabotaging their weapons shipments to Victoria. More risk for the NCR and more commitment on your end, but you gain a reliable supply of anti-air weapons and support equipment to help in exploiting the NCR's sabotage.
 
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