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Victoria Falls: A Post-Collapse American Nation Quest [Down With Victoria!]

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I think an Old Guard Start + Revivalist Connections + Established (since the QM wants us to choose this) + Foreign Sourced Equipment could allow us to reliably expand very quickly across the chaotic sections of America, securing manpower for a war against Victoria and acquiring more Old World leftovers.
 
Corripere said:
I think an Old Guard Start + Revivalist Connections + Established (since the QM wants us to choose this) + Foreign Sourced Equipment could allow us to reliably expand very quickly across the chaotic sections of America, securing manpower for a war against Victoria and acquiring more Old World leftovers.
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If we go Old Guard, I'd rather we use our CP to get some economic/technology stuff (and Brown Water Navy, maybe intelligence).
 
I honestly really love the Sara option, becuase I'd like our new start to be... a new start. And I love the idea of just some local that looked at the Nazis and went "No. No fucking more" then after that was done looked around again, looked at the state of her area and the Victorians and Russians over the horizon and went "No. No fucking more." and just fucking puts her back into turning everything around.
 
Okay, so I think I see a Marsden Early Start strategy, but it comes down to how we use our perks and what we spend our time building in turns.

The Marsden Start gives us:
Revivalist Connections, Good Reputation, Independent Merchants, Established, Russian Attention, and +2 Legitimacy. 0 CP.


The two almost-defining features of the start is Russian Attention, and Legitimacy. I will argue, however, that Independent Merchants, Revivalist Connections, and Good Reputation make for a potent economic package, but the 0 CP nearly shoots the whole damn thing in the foot.

So how do we go about playing this?

First, we have to look at what Russian attention means. It's worth noting that Russian attention is distinct from Victorian attention, so keep that in mind.

The text of Russian attention is You will face Russian intervention at some point during turns 1-4. Now, remembering that turns are 6 months apiece, we have to ask what that attention means for Chicago. We're going to have 6 months minimum to act, because Russia doesn't have perfect information from a place where we don't have perfect information either.

So how are they going to intervene?
  1. CRUISE MISSILE - wait hold on are launching cruise missiles over chinese or german airspace? abort! abort! abort!
    1. Launch from the NCR? Do you not understand the concept of "don't give orders that won't be followed?"
  2. INVASION - wait how what with what bombers (can't be strategic) or troop deployments or logistics this far away from resupply
  3. PATSY INVASION - more plausible, but still difficult, because unless they already have surplus military the Russians can't just snap their fingers and roll over Chicago
    1. The Victorians are the danger here; if they mobilize we're not going to have a fun time, but I'm hoping that because of the label "Victorian attention" that this isn't covered.
  4. ASSASSINATION - The most likely course of action; Russia's Okhrana are among their best units, it fits their previous MO, and most of all it's quick and doesn't depend on some other idiot who could fuck it up.
  5. oh shit NUKE - welp. gg. fuck I forgot this was still in the wild. pray that Russia decides just to take the nuke and not use it.

So now that we're attempting to solve for the issue of "how do we not get assassinated" and "survive a patsy invasion" plus "let's be economic powerhouse and revivalist", the path forward I think becomes pretty clear. pray for clouds and very little instant sunshine

REQUIRED PERK: Good Security. It sure as hell isn't going to be sufficient, but we need to start with a leg up or we're just not going to be able to keep up.

-1 CP.

Now we have to make a decision. I elect to drop the Brown Water Navy, and develop that with actions, ditto too for the Rail Companies. This cuts my requirements down to Independent Merchants, Libraries, and Universities.

In order to pay for Good Security and Libraries, I will take:

Population Boom: The effects can be mitigated through Independent Merchants and Revivalist Connections, but it's still a major debuff, one that almost necessitates taking Widespread Vaccinations.

+2 CP.

Widespread Vaccinations: Mitigates Population Boom's downsides, gives the socialists a bone, restarts a pharmaceutical industry. Only thing not to love is the damn price tag.

-3 CP.

Disunified Economy: We have to pay for the CP somehow, and this looks like the "best" drawback to take. It sure as hell isn't a good approach, but we kinda have to take it. Plus, Independent Merchants helps offset this too with their bonus to starting trade.

+3 CP.

Disastrous Start: To get us over that last CP for Libraries, we can take this. Hopefully, if we can diploannex our neighbors, the lack of an effective early game intelligence agency won't fuck us over too hard.

+1 CP.

Incompetent Military: It's the easiest of the 2 CP drawbacks to work around, which is not saying much; it'll still take shittons of dedicated actions when we're desperately pressed otherwise, but it can be overcome and what we get in return is university experts.

+2 CP.

Universities: Because experts will greatly help us reconstruct economically, which is the key to our success: survive and grow the economy.

In the actual game itself, we'd want to focus on:

  1. Unfucking the economy
  2. Unfucking the economy
  3. Improving our internal security
  4. Improving our internal security
  5. brown water boting
  6. infrastructure
  7. getting troops up to par

Thoughts?
 
Secretariat said:
Historically, most new states appropriate the narratives of their predecessors while building something institutionally new. The Polish state was dead for two hundred years; didn't stop them from calling their lower house the Sejm. (Alternatively, the Fifth French Republic.)
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I'm kinda talking in the mechanical sense. Since we haven't really been going for a high legitimacy strategy, picking the high legitimacy option that isn't making up for some great deficiency is a missed opportunity to spend attention elsewhere, and the fact that she also comes with a pretty hefty downside means that we'd be getting a major malice without the bonii being terribly relevant.
 
Corripere said:
I think an Old Guard Start + Revivalist Connections + Established (since the QM wants us to choose this) + Foreign Sourced Equipment could allow us to reliably expand very quickly across the chaotic sections of America, securing manpower for a war against Victoria and acquiring more Old World leftovers.
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Do we want to quickly expand though?

Wouldn't it be more prudent to work on shoring up our strength in the territory we already hold first, while using diplomacy and trade to influence our neighbors?
 
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I would say what we need most of all is a good economy first, yeah. Time to build up the economy and ideally no foreign attention. I suppose Sara could give us that, but it is losing out on a CP...
 
PoptartProdigy said:
You watch from a side gallery as the Moderator shuts down yet another shouting match between the various delegates. This Congress isn't turning out as well as you'd hoped...but it is at least doing better than you'd expected. You've worked too long and hard to restore order in this region to see it fall apart at the last moment.
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PoptartProdigy said:
You lean back in your chair, sighing. You're old, now, and tired. You've worked so hard to see this day come to pass that it sometimes seems like you haven't rested in years.

But you're not done yet. Until this Congress is over, and until this new republic, in whatever form it settles, elects its first leader, you're still on duty. Possibly even beyond then.
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Just try and tell me this doesn't sound like an old, weary soldier.
 
Like, I appreciate the strong military start, but I think we really, absolutely need to focus on improving our economy and our own already controlled area before we start doing foreign military adventures. And I'm slightly worried that going with Old Guard will give us the temptation to start military adventurism when we don't need to or before we're ready for it.
 
You know what? I think trying to get a bunch of low cost advantages is looking at things wrong. Every low cost advantage is something we can work towards in the beginning turns. Brown-Water Navy, Established, Good Security, Rail Companies, etc. Most of these are things I can easily picture as actions we can take in the early game, and most of the low-point disadvantages are also things that could be worked out in the early turns.

Basically, I think going for one or two high-cost advantages might be worth taking multiple low-cost disadvantages. Green-Water Navy's high cost of 4CP is almost as much as the Nuke for a darn good reason, I'd think. And Widespread Vaccinations requires Independent Merchant, meaning it effectively costs 5 CP!
 
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Rat King said:
Like, I appreciate the strong military start, but I think we really, absolutely need to focus on improving our economy and our own already controlled area before we start doing foreign military adventures. And I'm slightly worried that going with Old Guard will give us the temptation to start military adventurism when we don't need to or before we're ready for it.
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I would rather have that temptation than to have a weak military when the Victorians comes guns blazing
 
Derpmind said:
You know what? I think trying to get a bunch of low cost advantages is looking at things wrong. Every low cost advantage is something we can work towards in the beginning turns. Brown-Water Navy, Established, Good Security, Rail Companies, etc. Most of these are things I can easily picture as actions we can take in the early game, and most of the low-point disadvantages are also things that could be worked out in the early turns.

Basically, I think going for one or two high-cost advantages might be worth taking multiple low-cost disadvantages. Green-Water Navy almost costs as much as the Nuke for a darn good reason, I'd think.
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A very good reason; per earlier answer, their helos (each one traditionally has a helo) aren't operable, but we have those. And each cutter has a whole electronic suite with 2020-era radar and fire control. And although they're not really huge warships, they do sport enough weaponry to basically turn boat technicals into so much trash and will probably be able to outrun anything in existence on the Great Lakes. Plus we have the old crews to help us train up a new generation of Lake/Sea sailors.
 
PoptartProdigy said:
They're all tired, mate.
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Fair enough ;)

Rat King said:
Like, I appreciate the strong military start, but I think we really, absolutely need to focus on improving our economy and our own already controlled area before we start doing foreign military adventures. And I'm slightly worried that going with Old Guard will give us the temptation to start military adventurism when we don't need to or before we're ready for it.
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With an Old Guard start, we can totally focus on our own economy and diplomatically integrate nearby states with promises of a strong defense. We can also acquire important remnants of the Old World with our strong logistics and secure trade routes from the warlords bound to be running amuck in the uncontrolled areas.
 
Some ideas...

Local Hero Build (S/6):
Professionals Study Logistics (3/3)
Established (2/1)
Disastrous Start (-1/2)
Independent Merchants (2/0)
Efficient Bureaucracy (3/-3)
Population Boom (-2/-1)
Import/Export Professionals (-1/0)
Libraries (2/-2)
Crossed Wires (-2/0)

Old Guard Build (S/4):
Old World Equipment (S/4)
Old World Soldiers (S/4
Professionals Study Logistics (S/4)
Incompetent Military (-2/6)
Established (2/4)
Victorian Attention (S/4)
Independent Merchants (2/2)
Efficient Bureaucracy (3/-1)
Population Boom (-2/1)
Import/Export Professionals (-1/2)
Libraries (2/0)

My reasoning for the difference in penalties between the two is that we have the time budget to deal with Crossed Wires when going with Local Hero, and the means to do so with Libraries. With the Old Guard, Incompetent Military churns out mooks that I hope the Old World Soldiers can give supplementary training to.
 
Note we also kinda have to take established due to "dire consequences" for not taking it as promised by the QM.

Ganurath said:
My reasoning for the difference in penalties between the two is that we have the time budget to deal with Crossed Wires when going with Local Hero, and the means to do so with Libraries. With the Old Guard, Incompetent Military churns out mooks that I hope the Old World Soldiers can give supplementary training to.
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QM has noted that training won't be happening.
 
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Like, there's more to an economy than just development. See China with its middle-income population and a giant economy. Territory, natural resources, trade routes, and population are just as key to a national economy's strength as development is. We cannot afford to just focus inward.
 
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