Victoria Falls: A Post-Collapse American Nation Quest [Down With Victoria!]

[4WheelSword]

thread policy Discussion of politics that does not directly relate to the Quest or to Quest votes are banned from hereon out. This thread policy will be enforced by the Moderation team. Do not ignore it.

 

[Rockeye]

Better put 2 AP on it to make it's not frikking necessary then.

Because "spending lives and political capital" to ram through an important project sounds like a Victorian thing to do.

 

[PT12]

After seeing this it puts a whole added layer of stupid. To the Victorian's use of the T-34... Which considering their burning garbage heap of a manufacturing is probably of an even worse production quality. If that is somehow even possible...

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIZ6PFYUM5o

Who knows maybe Rumford made a pact with an eldritch abomination. To fulfill his twisted vision.

 

[Rockeye]

I don't really want to watch an hour long video from a guy whose voice I find kind of annoying, PT12 since you're the one bringing it to the thread could you summarize the main points it's trying to make?

 

[Sir_Travelsalot]

I don't really want to watch an hour long video from a guy whose voice I find kind of annoying, PT12 since you're the one bringing it to the thread could you summarize the main points it's trying to make?

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Having watched that video on my own in the past, I can do so; it illustrates that far from the famous Soviet engine of victory, the T-34 was in fact a tank that is woefully lacking in many essential qualities as an armoured vehicle even when built to its design specifications, the vast majority of which built during the war were decidedly not as production standards slipped ever further to produce ever greater amounts of them at any expense.

Just as an example; the visibility from the inside of a T-34 is horrendous for the crew by default, leaving them largely blind to the battlefield around them, and this already limited visibility only degraded further when the periscopes switched from glass lenses to polished steel during Operation Barbarossa, due to the factory producing them having been overrun, and eventually becoming so rushed with production quotas that the steel inside the periscopes was not even guaranteed to be polished.

 

[PT12]

Having watched that video on my own in the past, I can do so; it illustrates that far from the famous Soviet engine of victory, the T-34 was in fact a tank that is woefully lacking in many essential qualities as an armoured vehicle even when built to its design specifications, the vast majority of which built during the war were decidedly not as production standards slipped ever further to produce ever greater amounts of them at any expense.

Just as an example; the visibility from the inside of a T-34 is horrendous for the crew by default, leaving them largely blind to the battlefield around them, and this already limited visibility only degraded further when the periscopes switched from glass lenses to polished steel during Operation Barbarossa, due to the factory producing them having been overrun, and eventually becoming so rushed with production quotas that the steel inside the periscopes was not even guaranteed to be polished.

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This. Thank you...

Really goes to show how stupid Rumford is in universe and Lind out. It wouldn't surprise me if the Victorian's attempted to build certain vehicles proposed by the so called "reformists."

 

[Rockeye]

Yeah thanks I just like to rag on people who post videos and go "this". Like, I'm not gonna watch that ty

 

[Ikacprzak]

So on my end, I think we should prioritize sourcing foreign arms, finishing up our department, building railroads, and expanding domestic manufacturing.

 

[Red Rationalist]

So on my end, I think we should prioritize sourcing foreign arms, finishing up our department, building railroads, and expanding domestic manufacturing.

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I don't think there is anything we can do to expand domestic manufacturing this turn. Most of industrial development is locked behind Industrial Assessments, which still needs another success. Aside from that, we have the shipbuilding expansion but the AP costs are to steep.

 

[Simon_Jester]

Honestly I think Rail lines is a must for us to do and important enough that we may need to swallow the costs if it fails just to see it through.

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Very possibly, but if it's worth that, it's also worth spending two AP on. Again, that's very likely to overflow in constructive ways, if it does overflow. Because it's a project that builds fixed permanent infrastructure of a type we will always need more and more and better and better of for the foreseeable future.

Possibly. However, getting additional free AP a turn earlier still is the better option compared to less chance of failing a number of projects IMO. The way I see it, we have a large amount of work we are behind on (Foreign Weapons, The Mississippi, The Refugee Crisis, Modernizing the Army, Getting a functional intelligence service). The best option for addressing the current situation is to increase the amount AP we can spent, since it doesn't just allow us to do more actions per turn, but also mitigate the risk of failure in specific areas. Whereas DC reductions will be spread in ways we can't anticipate and that might be useless to us, we can control the AP and counteract the risk of failure in any given department.

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Well, in this case, we're balancing a chance of failure on an AP-increasing action we both support against a chance of failure on a difficulty-reducing action we both support. You can't compare the whole reward of the +AP action to the chance of reducing difficulty or improving the outcomes of projects.

Though then this really does get down into the weeds.

Having watched that video on my own in the past, I can do so; it illustrates that far from the famous Soviet engine of victory, the T-34 was in fact a tank that is woefully lacking in many essential qualities as an armoured vehicle even when built to its design specifications, the vast majority of which built during the war were decidedly not as production standards slipped ever further to produce ever greater amounts of them at any expense.

Just as an example; the visibility from the inside of a T-34 is horrendous for the crew by default, leaving them largely blind to the battlefield around them, and this already limited visibility only degraded further when the periscopes switched from glass lenses to polished steel during Operation Barbarossa, due to the factory producing them having been overrun, and eventually becoming so rushed with production quotas that the steel inside the periscopes was not even guaranteed to be polished.

Click to shrink...

In fairness to the Vicks, any T-34s they operate were probably not built with wartime substitutions forced on them, and they would have had the time to make sure their factories were producing goods to whatever specification they chose (within the limits of technological capacity). This does not invalidate the T-34's design flaws as such, but does put a boundary on some things.

 

[Red Rationalist]

Well, in this case, we're balancing a chance of failure on an AP-increasing action we both support against a chance of failure on a difficulty-reducing action we both support. You can't compare the whole reward of the +AP action to the chance of reducing difficulty or improving the outcomes of projects.

Though then this really does get down into the weeds.

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I can't offer any founded statistical comparison between the two, I admit. However talking explicitly about the immediate benefits, the DC reductions would IMO be either in areas we have a decent dice pool in (engineering expertise being mostly relevant for the three AP development sectors) or action which can don't have priority this turn (Retraining Campaigns, Berau of Taxation). Whereas additional AP could be used to solve nearly any problem.
And I would like to stress my plan has an 85% chance of completing expatriates. The failure risk is quite low, and in return we get a decent chance of finishing Taxation halfway.

 

[Red Rationalist]

@PoptartProdigy

Actually, I would like to offer my write-in idea:

Department of State Action:
[] Request Bureaucratic and Industrial Attaches from FCNY and the NCR: It's blatantly obvious that the CFC lacks experts and it's equally obvious that both the FCNY and the NCR have maintained a far more intact higher education system and consequently far more trained people. To address this limitation, the CFC would ask for a wide variety of specialists in those areas, which could be used to train people to fulfill the needs of the ever-expansive CFC bureaucracy and industry. Every bit of expertise helps. Hopefully the governments of the FCNY and NCR are willing to help out out an ally, rather than expecting significant concessions in return.

Basically, I would like to ask the FCNY and the NCR for some help in training experts. I don't know how receptive they are to such an idea, but it couldn't hurt to ask.

 

[Ikacprzak]

So what are the odds the NCR decides to support nearby guerilla groups as a way to either tie up Japanese resources or create new independent territory?

 

[Rivenscryr]

So many options. The more AP we get, the more things we need to spend that AP on, but then, that's life, isn't it? Anyway, I'm throwing together a plan of my own - this one takes Standing Core, so that we actually have the ability to do some force projection if the Minneapolis situation (among others) boils over. And since Expatriate Outreach is likely to reach the Council level, I figured we might as well try to get Council Representation established properly.

[] Plan Fires of the Forging
-[] Department of Defense (1/1)
--[] Standing Core
-[] Department of State (5/1)
--[] Expand the Department
--[] Source Foreign Arms x2
--[] Expatriate Outreach
--[] Establish Council Representation
-[] Department of Domestic Affairs (4/1)
--[] Refugee Management x2
--[] The Works x2
-[] Department of Development (4/3)
--[] Industrial Assessments
--[] Build Rail x2
--[] Purchase Rolling Stock [SYP]
-[] Department of Security (2/1)
--[] Long Tail
--[] Trouble in Minnesota
-[] Department of Technological Recovery (1/1)
--[] Old World Equipment
-[] Department of Education (2/2)
--[] School Survey x2 (locked)

 

[Pittauro]

...well, I delayed reading the update because I kinda didn't want to bother with what seemed like a side-story before the actual plan options, and I was tempted up to the last moment to just skip to the plan making...

...and then I start actually reading that "side-story" at the beginning, and it's VERY compelling!

poor Lisa. I can't blame the green guys, though. Terrorism... well, it's a matter of perspective there.

David peers around the barren complex, rifle shouldered. "What the hell is this place, Father?" he hisses.

"Goblin Valley State Park," says Father Smith, ambling up towards the cluster of buildings ahead. "A bandit warlord made his home here, for a while. He cleared out recently, though."

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oh, the father and ex-victorian soldier? It's been a while!

Smith gulps, taking another few steps back. "Perhaps we should leave, then. We don't know who they are, no need to start a fight. We just turn around and- heh. Bravely run away. Brave, brave, Sir Robin," he sang quietly, his voice thready and tense.

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...He must have had access to the Internet at some point, to know of Brave Sir Robin

"Storage?" says David. "Some place for the sinners to keep their loot. Maybe heavier equipment. Heck, you could keep a helicopter in here. There's…space…" His eyes widen. He looks again at the doors. Then he strides quickly down the hall, breaking out into a jog. He examines each door until he hits the end and then comes running back, eyes wide.

"David?" asks Smith.

"It's a hangar," says David. He shivers and glanced around. "Cold, and-" He sucks in several quick, shallow breaths, running the air over the back of his throat. "Dry. Hang on." He swiftly paces the width of the corridor. "…sixteen, seventeen, eighteen, nineteen, twenty, that's sixty feet, height-" He shines his light in the floor a third of the way across the corridor and then pans it up at the ceiling. "…at least twenty feet. Fuck."

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...wait, are they where we got our planes from?!

He flips to the third and final tag. "Certified mutt, born June 2074."

Smith bursts out laughing, and David chuckled as well.

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...ok, that's funny.

"…this is Jack Aubrey's dog," says David.

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which I THINK was the name of that general/bandit leader we sort of pardoned, yeah.

"I feel like I should tell them," says David, despairing.

Smith halts. He turns. "…they would kill you, David. They would make you die screaming."

"Good soldiers are supposed to welcome death in their country's defense," he mutters, wiping at his eyes.

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Indoctrination is strong...

"They can't do it," he whispers.

It is more than treason. It is heresy. Victory is in their name, ordained by God Almighty. His prophets Rumford and Kraft brought the principles of holy war to earth and left it in mortal hands, and with it they dominated all they surveyed.

And…and…

"They can't do it," he repeats, staring into infinity and feeling damnation envelop his soul like a shroud thrown over a corpse.

"They know they can't do it," says Smith, tightening his hold around David's shoulders. "Why do you think they try, David?"

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...but not THAT strong

Then, she starts sniffing at his pocket again, and he laughs, pulling out some more jerky.

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just how much jerky does he have in that pocket?!

I'll check the actions and proposed plans later

 

[TheDoge]

Frank looks back at her. "...we have friends in resistance groups operating away from the coast," he says. "We can't get you flown or shipped out of the city, not now, but we can get you over the mountains into Montana. From there, you can make your way overland to the Commonwealth of Free States, and there, you can catch a ship back home."

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When was the name of the Commonwealth changed? It's still the Free Cities on the Status Screen.

 

[Pittauro]

Reaching out to the Diaspora might help with that.

Click to shrink...

Have you tried talking to Secretary Harris about an approach to the Diaspora?

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Madame President, I echo my colleagues' calls for outreach to the Diaspora.

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I add my voice to the chorus calling for outreach to the Diaspora.

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"First of all, every single one of my colleagues has visited, asking me to ask you to support State's efforts at outreach to the Diaspora, and I fully agree.

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I think they're trying to tell us something, but I can't quite tell what

 

[Cyberphilosipher]

I think they're trying to tell us something,

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"Are they talking about the economically successful Diaspora again?"

"Yes they are..."

"Are they going to at least consider talking to them? At least to see if they have family in Europe they didn't know they had?"

"I have no idea sir."

 

[GardenerBriareus]

2. Green party apparently did actually have a presence in Cascadian politics, and some of their supporters turned militant even tried to assassinate both a Yamato princess and the old Tsesarevich and joined a broad coalition of Insurgents in a Failed rebellion against Colonial authority.

Click to shrink...

He did mention that "we got her", in connection with the missile they launched at a Japanese warship. Is the implication that they took out a visiting dignitary onboard, or that the ship "herself" was significant?

And yeah, Lisa is probably going to end up getting herself, Carl, and a number of other partisans killed with her little stunt. GPS transponders aren't exactly stealth tech, to my knowledge.

 

[PoptartProdigy]

I wouldn't worry about that. GPS transponders are everywhere in the interior. Not, like, ubiquitous, but with infrastructure devastated, satellite-based networking equipment is basically it. Anybody of means has stuff that runs off a sat. One more signal coming on isn't really a thing anybody notices. It's like somebody on the run in FCNY pulling out a phone. You aren't going to get somebody at Electronics and Signals division raising their hand saying, "Sir, we've got them! A new cell phone just came online at 5th and Broadway!"

Unless you know which transponder to be looking for, it doesn't mean much. And nobody knows which one to be looking for, or even to be looking. Leaving aside the challenges Japan would have tracking signals on PACS-aligned GPS networks.

 

[Lightwhispers]

poor Lisa. I can't blame the green guys, though. Terrorism... well, it's a matter of perspective there.

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And yeah, Lisa is probably going to end up getting herself, Carl, and a number of other partisans killed with her little stunt. GPS transponders aren't exactly stealth tech, to my knowledge.

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Given how skeezy Carl comes across to me, I really can't blame her for doing everything she can to get away from a months-long cross-country trip with him. He comes across as superfically "knight in shining armor" over "I'm a hero, I can do what I want".

 

[Stabbtmcstabstab]

Given how skeezy Carl comes across to me, I really can't blame her for doing everything she can to get away from a months-long cross-country trip with him. He comes across as superfically "knight in shining armor" over "I'm a hero, I can do what I want".

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I'm 100% the only reason Carl is being sent is because option B was probably killing and dumping his corpse someplace where he'll never be found. Because it sounds like this isn't his first fuck-up on the level that got Lisa involved, but it sounds like it's going to be his last. But I don't think it's skeezy and terminal stupidity mixed with watching to many actions movies with the thought process of "I'm a heroic freedom fighter, why wouldn't chicks dig me?".

 

[Luminous]

Is Carl that Skeezy? He just seems kind of... naïve?

 

[buli-buli]

Is Carl that Skeezy? He just seems kind of... naïve?

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It's his apparent naivete that makes him skeezy.

Based on the constant commentary of his companions, Carl's head is never in the game.
He took the time to hit on a tourist during an insurgency operation!
And then, he repeatedly involved her in the name of keeping her safe.
Finally, he was confused and upset that he wasn't receiving thanks and praise for his actions.

Now, this is where things get messy. We know for a fact the Japanese response gunned down a lot of civilians and given the chaos of the event, I can't say whether Lisa would have been a part of that crowd. And Carl, to his credit, did keep her alive, if traumatized.

The problem is that the current plan is to put Carl, the shitty "white knight", in a position of authority and protection over Lisa. If this was a short-term thing, then yes. I would suggest Carl wouldn't try anything. But, traveling by foot from Seattle to Chicago through dangerous and possibly hostile territory. Google Maps places that trip at ~671 hours. That's roughly 28 days. They need to sleep and eat, so let's triple that. Three months of travel. And Carl doesn't want to be there. He's almost certainly going to be wanting a reward even if he doesn't consciously acknowledge it, be it physical or emotional.

And that's if he doesn't get himself killed the first week trying to impress her.

 

[Lightwhispers]

Based on the constant commentary of his companions, Carl's head is never in the game.
He took the time to hit on a tourist during an insurgency operation!
And then, he repeatedly involved her in the name of keeping her safe.
Finally, he was confused and upset that he wasn't receiving thanks and praise for his actions.

Click to shrink...

Yeah. To review the first and second encounters at the park:

A young man steps up to the rail next to her and flashes her a friendly grin. "Hey, there," he says.

Lisa blinks, torn out of her contemplation. "...hello," she says.

"Oh, you from Britain?" he asks, raising his eyebrows.

"Australia," she replies, frowning slightly.

"Sorry," he says, raising his hands. "I'm not too familiar, I've never been out of the Country."

Lisa shrugs. "Me neither. I'm visiting cousins here. They're expecting me for dinner." Please, please go away.

He appears to ignore her signals, leaning against the rail. "You an expatriate?"

"I was born in Australia. I'm just visiting family." She pushes away from the rail. "Excuse me." She turns and starts walking.

"Hey, I'm sorry!" he calls, following behind her. "I'm sorry, I didn't mean to piss you off-"

She rounds on him. "Do I know you?"

He blinks, pulling up short. "N- no, I don't think so."

She nods. "Right. Why are you talking to me?"

He flinches, rubbing at the back of his head. "...I'm sorry, I just overheard you on the phone. You sounded...worried. I was just- I..." he sighs. "I just wanted to tell you not to worry. The Japs don't get on tourists like that."

She stiffens, taking a step back. "I don't care for that word."

He sighs, spreading his arms. "Okay? Well, you're gonna hear it a lot here."

"I know. I have," she says. "I'm going to leave now."

He glances behind him, at a crew of workmen wheeling a bit of heavy equipment and a couple of wheelbarrows full of sandbags into the park, covered by a tarp. "...yeah, probably a good idea."

She blinks, stalling out. "Why?"

He sighs. "Nothing, nothing, just...bye, I guess." He turned and walked back into the crowd.

She tracked him with her eyes for a moment, watching as he walked up to a group of other young men at the entrance to the park, who started mocking him. She steps away from them.

Then, ducking into the crowds, she walks into the other side of the park. Asshole's not gonna scare me off, she thinks. Walking back up to the rail, she spends a few more minutes enjoying the view, taking in the fog and the ships moving in the harbor. She nods at a passing police officer, covered in body armor and carrying an assault rifle, as he makes eye contact with her. He snorts, but returns the nod, eyes moving onwards.

Sighing, she turns around, gazing up at the skyline and listening to the workmen as they argue about their equipment. Definitely too long since my last vacation. She peers at the officer out of the corner of her eye again as he speaks respectfully to a middle aged man with his wife and children a step behind him in Japanese. Maybe that asshole had a point. They like tourists, after all.

"What are you doing here?!"

She flinches as somebody grabs her arms, slapping at the hand.

The young man stares at her, wild-eyed, a bag slung over his shoulder.

"Get off of me!" she yells.

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So, he hits on her, ignores her "go away" signals (which might just be cultural mismatch, but I'm not feeling too generous there), and obviously pisses her off... and then, he comes back to her, grabs her arms, and makes a scene, which is both stupid and disturbing for several reasons. So, yeah, coming across as very stalkerish to me. He put her in danger because of his actions, then keeps escalating the danger because of actions that are supposedly to keep her safe, but actually keep putting her in more danger.

 

[Luminous]

It's his apparent naivete that makes him skeezy.

Based on the constant commentary of his companions, Carl's head is never in the game.
He took the time to hit on a tourist during an insurgency operation!
And then, he repeatedly involved her in the name of keeping her safe.
Finally, he was confused and upset that he wasn't receiving thanks and praise for his actions.

Now, this is where things get messy. We know for a fact the Japanese response gunned down a lot of civilians and given the chaos of the event, I can't say whether Lisa would have been a part of that crowd. And Carl, to his credit, did keep her alive, if traumatized.

The problem is that the current plan is to put Carl, the shitty "white knight", in a position of authority and protection over Lisa. If this was a short-term thing, then yes. I would suggest Carl wouldn't try anything. But, traveling by foot from Seattle to Chicago through dangerous and possibly hostile territory. Google Maps places that trip at ~671 hours. That's roughly 28 days. They need to sleep and eat, so let's triple that. Three months of travel. And Carl doesn't want to be there. He's almost certainly going to be wanting a reward even if he doesn't consciously acknowledge it, be it physical or emotional.

And that's if he doesn't get himself killed the first week trying to impress her.

Click to shrink...

Okay, that I kind of get but... I mean, unless that was his plan (which I kind of highly doubt) I'd hardly characterize it as his fault. Unless Poptart wants to correct me it seems like he was just making everything up as he went once the bullets start flying. Like I'll be honest, I've read romance books with pretty much a similar setup. Hell, the whole "travel across the country on foot" seems to be Frank's idea more than Carl's.

So, he hits on her, ignores her "go away" signals (which might just be cultural mismatch, but I'm not feeling too generous there), and obviously pisses her off... and then, he comes back to her, grabs her arms, and makes a scene, which is both stupid and disturbing for several reasons. So, yeah, coming across as very stalkerish to me. He put her in danger because of his actions, then keeps escalating the danger because of actions that are supposedly to keep her safe, but actually keep putting her in more danger.

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Irresponsible? Yes. Pretty dumb? Absolutely. Intentionally Malicious? Not so much.