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Why not just.... take this equipment, and when the action opens back up, put 2 AP on it again to hopefully get a total of 3 successes?
 
Why not just.... take this equipment, and when the action opens back up, put 2 AP on it again to hopefully get a total of 3 successes?
Keep in mind this takes up resources (lowers monetary reserve), transport capacity and making it of any use takes training and maintenance. While this isn't explicitly modeled in the mechanics, I expect Poptart to model it in-universe. Taking miscellaneous low-quality equipment isn't free. And we rob ourselves of the opportunity to get decent 3/2 successes if we only get one success next year.
 
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[ ] No. Cut your losses and wait for the real arms manufacturers to have their shit sorted out.\
i am for getting good gear not poor gear
edit: because reasons
 
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Just a nitpick.

Unless this timeline gave us a FB-22, the raptor is the most useless US jet plane we can hope to have.

It is a literal 2000 plane that even now is facing obsolenece in 2040. That's 30 years obsolete.

While they have been assiduously well maintained, the fact remains that their awesome kinematics is risky to pull off due to sheer age and fatigue. And we can't throw bombs with it.

So, in it's intended role, well, California and Victoria are the only powers to have an opponent we can fight. And even for Victoria, well, we shattered them badly.

Think of the F22 raptor the same way colonial airpowers thought of the Hawker Hurricane or Hawker Hunter. The first step.



Som.its kinda easy for me to


[] Yes. Gain one success on Source Foreign Arms. Gain an amount of mismatched assortment of last-generation materiel of dubious maintenance records with no parts or ammunition support, as sellers can get them to you.


We ALREADY in this scenario. We need to expand or secure supplies so as to prepare insitutional knowledge and our airforce is working with 70 year old planes.
 
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Quick question, what should we call the Next Generation Air Dominance fighter in this story since that is to replace the F22 in real life?
 
Quick question, what should we call the Next Generation Air Dominance fighter in this story since that is to replace the F22 in real life?
There's no way in hell anyone of us can make a Air superiority fighter.

Making the F35 would be the most extreme and even here, that's only if California managed to hide it.


The F35 would be even less survivable than the F22 due to its lousy kinematics, assuming that 2070 advanced sensors/computing will beat 70 year old stealth models.
 
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I think I'm with @Random Member, it'll help to tide us over until next year, and at that point swinging for an extra success on top of the necessary 2 might make up for it?

Whereas if we say no I'm pretty sure we'll be able to put in a max of two dice when we need two successes, which aren't odds I like considering how important this action is.
 
I think I'm with @Random Member, it'll help to tide us over until next year, and at that point swinging for an extra success on top of the necessary 2 might make up for it?

Whereas if we say no I'm pretty sure we'll be able to put in a max of two dice when we need two successes, which aren't odds I like considering how important this action is.
Counterpoint: If we pick yes, put two AP on the action next year and fail one roll, we are stuck with the awful equipment and can't try again. The action would finish with 2/2 successes required. By comparison, if we fail one roll with the action having 0/2 successes, we have a chance to get decent stuff. Being stuck with terrible equipment in the long run isn't a risk worth taking.
 
There's no way in hell anyone of us can make a Air superiority fighter.

Making the F35 would be the most extreme and even here, that's only if California managed to hide it.


The F35 would be even less survivable than the F22 due to its lousy kinematics, assuming that 2070 advanced sensors/computing will beat 70 year old stealth models.
So basically only Russia has Sixth gen aircraft while the US remnants are stuck with making F35s at best?
 
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So basically only Russia has Sixth gen aircraft while the US remnants are stuck with making F35s at best?
Eh.... It depends. The French may have palmed off a sixth gen aircraft, depending on our timeline


I mean sure, Paris is burning but nice thing about Dasaault is you can set up in Germany.


Note though that the amount of plot armor means in theory, we should be discussing a 7th gen airframe as modern..


Officially and in our lore, California was forced by Victoria to make f16s only.

It's a question of how California was able to sneak F35 past Russian, Japanese and Victorian eyes if California is making F35.
 
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-Scott Air Force Base, Illinois, United States of America-

-Commonwealth of Free Cities-

-Monday, September 7, 2076, 07:16-

-Captain Wendy Harrelson
-

Wendy Harrelson follows behind General Franks, glancing around as they approach one of the hangars, guards at the doors. "So what are we here for, General?" she asks, hands in her pockets as she follows her commander.

Beside her, Danny shifts his weight slightly, shrugging in that way he has of agreeing with her without having to actually speak to the General.

The General glanced over her shoulder at them. "This is why we've selected you all to be here," she says.

A murmur of excitement goes through the group of eight -- survivors from the air engagement over Lake Erie, all of them, although some weren't present for reasons she didn't pretend to understand.

Wendy frowns. It wasn't really an answer to her question.

Daria catches the expression and chuckles, and that gets Wendy's attention properly. The General hadn't had much laughter in her, since Detroit.

The General shakes her head. "Our illustrious new trainers have a surprise for us," she says.

Wendy scowls, the mood amongst the others spoiling as well. None of them liked the new guys. When word had gotten around that they were getting a group of old Air Force veterans training them how to fly, they'd practically had stars in their eyes. Hellfire and the Devils come again, this time to give the Commonwealth Air Force some of the Old Country magic.

Imagine their disappointment to instead receive a batch of the sourest, least disciplined assholes ever to walk the Earth. She and the other girls had swiftly learned not to be alone with any of their trainers. She'd nearly pulled a knife on one of them, once, when he wouldn't back off.

Captain Eric Vance -- one of the F-4 pilots from Leamington who scored kills in the engagement, an immigrant from the deep South -- scoffs at that. "What do they want?" he asks.

The General turns, fixing him with a stern glare. "I know the issues we're having. I'm working on it. They've got as much to learn about how we do things as we have to learn about flying. But I expect you to listen to me when I say there's something they have for us."

Vance averts his gaze, rubbing at the back of his head. "Sorry, ma'am," he muttered, wincing. "Just...nah, sorry."

Daria nods after a moment, coming to a halt in front of the hangar doors. "We've selected you all for this because, out of the all of you, I believe you are the best pilots we got back after Detroit. In the fighting there, and the actions over Buffalo later, you all distinguished yourselves in a way I don't think any others matched. So, you eight have been selected as the first candidates for a special training course." She pounds on the hangar doors; a moment later, they begin rattling open.

Wendy blinks as cool air rushes out. Air conditioning, she marvels. That's fancy.

Daria rolls her shoulders back, standing up straight. "You all are the best of our best. Of the pilots who remain of our air force, I trust you all the most to handle the hardest jobs this Air Force has to offer." She steps aside, gesturing within the hangar with that smile back on her face. "Have a look. It's not the same, your first time, not without seeing it yourself."

Wendy raises her eyebrow at her boss before looking at the others, shrugging, and leading the way, Danny walking with her. She squints as she enters the hangar, eyes adjusting to the dimmer light within. "Big place," she remarks, peering about the space. She homes in on a cluster of shapes at the far end of the hangar, coming into focus as her eyes grow used to the-

Her eyes widen. She slows to a dazed halt.

"God Almighty," breathes Danny as he caught sight of them.

Dead silence falls as the pilots lay eyes on a quartet of F-22 Raptors.

After a stunned moment, Wendy feels her feet carrying her forward, eyes fixed on the one nearest her. The others follow, spurred by her example.

She doesn't register the trip across; a seeming heartbeat later, she stands before the plane, staring up at it. She circles at it, gazing from every single angle.

"These are your jets," she hears Daria saying. "Assuming you pass your courses to the satisfaction of your trainers -- and I have every confidence that you will -- then you will be the Commonwealth's first F-22 pilots."

Wendy comes to a halt just where the fighter's cockpit ladder would rest, gazing up at the canopy. Danny steps up next to her.

"Did you ever imagine you'd have a chance like this?" she breathes.

Danny stays silent for a long, long moment.

Then, with a sudden, shake of his head as though shooing an irritating insect, he says, "No. Never."

The pilots spend an endless moment taking in their new planes. There'll be work for them tomorrow.

For now, the future exists in a timeless moment of wonder and anticipation.
@PoptartProdigy , I see my Warbirds characters. Thankee. I'm sorry I never really finished Warbirds. I could come back to it, I suppose, even if by now it's set in-game and real-life years ago.

The third of the four pilots who would have gotten a viewpoint time in Warbirds, though in the two chapters I did she's only a bit character, is Amber Cormier. I think it's just as well if she doesn't end up in a Raptor, really. It would be almost... wrong, somehow, for her to end up in one of the Commonwealth's top-end fighters. Not when her prior claim to fame is that she has exactly one air-to-air kill to her name... which happens to be the very definitively last air-to-air kill of the P-51 Mustang's 132-year combat career.

Jasmine Walker, the fourth, doesn't strictly have any kills, though she honestly deserves most of the credit for one.

Cormier and Walker both survived being shot down- as, of course, many others did not.

...

Daniel Smith's probably about as close to a classically trained jet jockey with significant live experience that the pre-Detroit CAF had, being an ex-Vick defector. He lives inside his own head a lot, so him being caught just staring is very appropriate.

Cormier, meanwhile, is a bit wild, and I'll try to write her something one of these days. She may have had some exciting misadventures with the new trainers. Again, I think it was actively for the best that she wasn't in this scene.

Rumor mills will now include more detailed information on the Mississippi Watershed. Intelligence network in the region is maturing. I might have unintentionally misrepresented the scope of this action; honestly just made a mistake with the description. There is not realistically a scenario where you're establishing eyes and ears all the way down the Mississippi and it's not worth your time to extend them up the connecting riverways. Potential contacts from all those places would be meeting up in the same locations anyway given how river nexuses work. If you have contacts down to St. Louis, it's sheer negligence not to be getting information from up the Missouri, and so on and so forth.
Well sure, but I wouldn't have blamed you for there being a "stage two" of the action that clarifies the tributary intelligence networks. And even now, fully developing that intel network would probably take a second action, if only because holy shit that is a LOT of ground to cover.

The results of this are manifold. First, you cultivate an embarrassment of contacts within Nova Scotia, more than you actually expected. Second, you actually get a fair few contacts heading to Europe, although they'll need a lot more work before they actually constitute any form of inroads with the expatriate communities. Finally, Grimes herself is enthusiastically happy about doing her work for you, accepting her handler aboard as a member of her crew. She's even made some promises about arranging introductions with her Resistance contacts within Victoria-

-later, of course, she says, as though she hadn't just dropped a bombshell the size of an aircraft carrier on your agent's head.
*snrk snrk snrk*

Gain broad and deep penetration of surviving institutions and communities within Nova Scotia, although you are already preparing to batten down and brace once the Inquisitors regain control of the region. You will have opportunities to further cultivate contacts within the American Diaspora and even have a chance to get a favorable introduction with the Victorian Resistance, with future action investment.
Yaaay!

Needed: 31. Rolled: 37, 67.

First Amendment of the Commonwealth of Free Cities Constitution:

There shall be a Department of Education, established under the President's authority per Article 16 of the Constitution. This Department shall have as its remit the establishment, maintenance, and provision of education to all residents of the Commonwealth up to the age of eighteen. This Department shall be funded from the federal government's budget, at the direction of Congress, with no less than 10% of the budget of the Commonwealth, to increase to 15% by the first day of the year 2096. Congress may, with a 60% majority, elect at that time to defer the increase in funding by five years. Should Congress so decide, the funding increase shall be applied at the end of that period...
I can't decide if that funding level is over-ambitious or not. Depends on whether state and local governments are expected to spend much on schools, I guess. Probably just as well if they're not given that we're going to be working like mad bastards to standardize things and get them up to snuff.

Source Foreign Arms x2

Needed: TBD. Rolled: 5, 1
.

Okay, so in theory you are not facing down a complete disaster, here.

In practice, you can feel your options slipping away.

The international arms market is not favorable for destitute powers seeking to undergo crash militarization programs. There's a new Tsar, and he came to power screaming and raving about making Russia great again. The arms producers are being taken in hand by their home governments, and alliances are working to rationalize their own personal arms procurement in what promises to be an age of more direct peer power confrontation.

The upshot of this is, people are selling. They're just not selling anything you actually want.

You can procure some T-90s, somehow still running...allegedly. Chad is selling a single MiG-29 that it claims to still be in workable condition. Australia is offering some M1A1 Abrams they've had kicking around in reserve storage for longer than you care to contemplate. Lots of stuff like that. Ancient gear, stuff well past its prime even going into the Collapse and now solidly behind the times, and with questionable maintenance to boot.

...frankly, there's not that much of it. Enough to see you through a modest expansion to the armed forces in the short term, but not in the numbers you'd need, and you might as well whistle for continuing supplies of spare parts and ammunition. This is stuff being sold off to fund better gear for the sellers.

In terms of cohesive, large runs of materiel that you can use to build a good foundation on? There's nothing to be had. It's not like you're staring down the barrel of no foreign arms at all. Multiple sellers have told you that they're interested in doing business, but you need to wait while they sort things out. But defense procurement is a long-term game, and you were really hoping to have this sorted out at the start of things.

There were going to be some options you could pick between for various arms suppliers based on what your planners were hoping to achieve, but the rolls were so low that you have one option. You can accept scraping the barrel of the arms market for whatever dregs people are selling off to fund better equipment. You only rolled high enough to get one success in this, though.

Or, you can accept defeat and try again next year once arms suppliers have sorted out their shit. Vote below
.
Ngh. I think we're gonna have to accept defeat and try again.

Sara Goldblum: "I am pretty sure the wiring harnesses have been eaten by dropbears. And no, I'm not talking about the Australian tanks. I mean the fighter jet from Chad. Somehow. The phrase 'sinister Chadian bioscience program gone horribly wrong' is not a phrase I ever expected to have to say in high school, dammit!"
 
David stares at the boy for a moment. "...you think the government having it is better?" he asks, trying not to sound too skeptical.
Thinking back on the chapter this line stuck out to me in particular.
I had completely forgotten Victoria would teach about the "evils of big government". It all sorta gets lost in the theocratic fascism.
Which is sorta egrigious since I wrote up the idea the Victorian Church basically fulfills a lot of the traditional government roles because of that belief.
 
Thinking back on the chapter this line stuck out to me in particular.
I had completely forgotten Victoria would teach about the "evils of big government". It all sorta gets lost in the theocratic fascism.
Which is sorta egrigious since I wrote up the idea the Victorian Church basically fulfills a lot of the traditional government roles because of that belief.
To be fair to the character in question: If your primary exposure to governments was the Victorian State, you would be pretty skeptical about the concept of altruistic governments.
 
It's astonishing how many people are capable of reading the voting options and miss the allcaps bold MANUAL MORATORIUM below that. Just FYI @Blazblade @GerPN76 @Redhead222 @Night_stalker, Poptart is going to manually open voting at a later point, and only votes made after that threadmark will be tallied.

Average roll of ~43, which isn't that below average, but jeez, that 5 and that 1. I actually went back to check that the dice were actually d100s and people didn't accidentally roll d6 or something.
 
Just a nitpick.

Unless this timeline gave us a FB-22, the raptor is the most useless US jet plane we can hope to have.

It is a literal 2000 plane that even now is facing obsolenece in 2040. That's 30 years obsolete.

While they have been assiduously well maintained, the fact remains that their awesome kinematics is risky to pull off due to sheer age and fatigue. And we can't throw bombs with it.

So, in it's intended role, well, California and Victoria are the only powers to have an opponent we can fight. And even for Victoria, well, we shattered them badly.

Think of the F22 raptor the same way colonial airpowers thought of the Hawker Hurricane or Hawker Hunter. The first step.
Ultimately, it's still a stealth fighter that can fight BVR and drop JDAMs or their equivalents. That's not gonna be useless, assuming it's still got stealth capability. You don't need super-kinematics for that role.

Som.its kinda easy for me to

[] Yes. Gain one success on Source Foreign Arms. Gain an amount of mismatched assortment of last-generation materiel of dubious maintenance records with no parts or ammunition support, as sellers can get them to you.

We ALREADY in this scenario. We need to expand or secure supplies so as to prepare insitutional knowledge and our airforce is working with 70 year old planes.
The difference is that with the captured F-16Vs from the Vicks, we at least know where to get spare parts from and apparently have some capacity to maintain our own engines (ask me if you want to know why I say that, but suffice to say that I think it's something we have to thank the ghost of Audrey Jameson for).

Quick question, what should we call the Next Generation Air Dominance fighter in this story since that is to replace the F22 in real life?
Napkinwaffe.

It was probably never actually built except maybe for a handful of prototypes as the US government stopped actually funding things in the late 2020s or early 2030s.

The F35 would be even less survivable than the F22 due to its lousy kinematics, assuming that 2070 advanced sensors/computing will beat 70 year old stealth models.
I'm not sure beating stealth turns out to be that simple. Even if it does, the F-35 has the major advantage that the Californians were still using and updating it up through at least the Pacific War and quite possibly later, so it's got modern-ish avionics and sensor/computing options of its own.

Call it the equivalent of having an F-16 in 2020. It's not the most impressive jet on the market, and the oldest surviving models are painfully obsolete, but it's still a functional airframe in basic design, and the latest upgraded models are still very dangerous in the right hands, to the point where a seriousface modern air force still flies them as multirole fighters.

A respectable 'low' in the high-low mix of even a first rate air force.

Of course, that's the latest F-35 design as implemented by California post-independence or something like that.

Note though that the amount of plot armor means in theory, we should be discussing a 7th gen airframe as modern..
I'm pretty sure that sixth-generation fighters are whatever Russia rolled out a generation ago (that is, 2035-2050). Seventh generation fighters are still untried prototypes because there's relatively little demand.

"5.5-generation" fighters are probably still common and competitive all over the world, again in the way that even the USAF still flies F-16s and F-15s even though both are originally derived from designs that originated back in the 1970s. Because it turns out that a "4.5-generation" aircraft is still effective in a lot of roles circa 2020, who knew?

Aircraft generation length has stretched out a LOT since 1970 in real life, and nothing about the Collapse and subsequent Russia-as-superpower situation in the quest timeline would change that.
 
It's astonishing how many people are capable of reading the voting options and miss the allcaps bold MANUAL MORATORIUM below that. Just FYI @Blazblade @GerPN76 @Redhead222 @Night_stalker, Poptart is going to manually open voting at a later point, and only votes made after that threadmark will be tallied.

Average roll of ~43, which isn't that below average, but jeez, that 5 and that 1. I actually went back to check that the dice were actually d100s and people didn't accidentally roll d6 or something.
it sometimes happens that ppl miss shit.
been known too miss blocks of texts from time too time. might have to do with dislexia or tired or number of other reasons who knows.
 
[X] No. Cut your losses and wait for the real arms manufacturers to have their shit sorted out.

The scraps on offer aren't worth the effort. Let's lick our wounds and get this fixed. The Seven Year Plan already is trying to balance out quality and speed and we can't afford to sacrifice more quality.

And as much as those Ls suck, we got more wins than losses this round. Let's cherish what we got and fix what we didn't.
 
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