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Standoff In the South China Sea
  • Last night, naval forces from the Pacific-Asian Cooperative Sphere, the Empire of Japan, and the Republic of China engaged in a tense standoff. The standoff began when Japanese and PACS forces encountered one another in the Balabac Strait, each accusing one another of violating the agreed-upon border through the center of the strait. Neither side backed down, and as the sun began rising the next day with the standoff persisting and more distant warships being redirected, Chinese Republican Navy forces began to set out from Hainan to the Japanese-held Paracel islands. Japanese forces withdrew from the Balabac Strait an hour later, sailing north. CRN forces turned back hours later.
    • Note from SecState Harris: This one sounds closer than it was. There might be superpower levels of heft getting thrown around out there, but there's no intent to it. Grandstanding. Nobody can domestically tolerate looking weak. With three of them in the region, at least it means that everybody has a way out of these with a win that doesn't involve fighting.

Reminder to everyone that this is happening around the same time. This could be the spark that ignites the tinderbox.
 
Well, California's early-stage rebellion went well enough. Now to see just how Russia answers to the provocation... If other territories take advantage of their distraction to make their own rebellions they might not get a choice. We're on the other size of the world, and they have their own problems to deal with pretty much everywhere.

and about nukes... that would be very risky for them. Even not counting the chance of retaliation from other nuke-wielding powers, if they show themselves to be THAT callous, I wouldn't be surprised if EVERY other territory under their control rebelled at once.
 
Also remember that the NCR still has some nukes of its own. Probably not a huge arsenal, but the threat to remove Vladivostoc, or even the potential for them to make a play for (only) Moscow cannot be discounted
 
So how will logistics influence the fight? Because Russia has to mobilize troops, move them a vast distance, have them fight, and then move them back before anyone tries to attack their vulneranle areas.
 
So I have a question, if both us and the NCR fight for american freedom and independence why are they seen as a threat or enemy to us? I understand that they are our rival in that we are both trying to be the first to form the USA but still.
 
So I have a question, if both us and the NCR fight for american freedom and independence why are they seen as a threat or enemy to us? I understand that they are our rival in that we are both trying to be the first to form the USA but still.
Because we have a lot of differences and ncr has skeletons in their closet like anyone but they also by like looks of it try to ignore it when it gets out and trys to bite of little Timmy's nose.
 
Also, ultimately most every major successor state has a vision of a reunited America, a vision that require that they, personally, be the ones who take the lead in reuniting America. The New California Republic wants to take the lead in reuniting America. The Commonwealth of Free Cities wants to take the lead in reuniting America. Et cetera, et cetera. The rub is what President Johnson brought up: California's history as a Russian enforcer on the west coast, and of expansion via military force,means that if California reunites America, they're reuniting America at the point of a gun.
 
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Hey, the NCR seemed to do a solid operation. If I'm reading the text correctly, Russian positions have been mostly overrun with the holdouts isolated, while the Californian navy is already patrolling the waters.
The Russian response is the big question. The military is currently not entirely reliable due to the domestic instability, but the Tsar is also surrounded by Hardliners. The Tsar can't afford an open war right now, not with their control barely solidified. A larger war would demand withdrawing troops from Russia and increase the potential for a counter coup, while also risking an defeat and subsequent military disloyalty.
But he also can't afford to look weak, less he loses support from the Hardliners that brought him into power. What the Tsar is looking for is a very limited engagement that makes him look tough, but is also easily winnable.
The Tsar is also widely regarded as incompetent generally and unable to understand soft power, so I don't think he will pick the optimal response. If I had to guess, I think we will hear Russian threatening invasion very loudly as an initial response, but little follow-up up until a small to medium engagement is won by the Russians.
 
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I have a question, how much different this Japan's military than OTL's JSDF?
Very. The institutional culture is informed by what is now the Japanese far-right and in some cases by its fringe. They have a large navy capable of offensive power projection, and an army capable of expeditionary occupation of territories, and which does that on a large scale. From our experience in their actions in the Pacific Northwest, when territory is relatively pacified they rely heavily on drone warfare and using drone strikes to keep resistance suppressed.

Some of the equipment may be recognizably descended from stuff the JSDF used in 2020-ish, or some details like uniforms or whatever, but it's a very very different military.

Also remember that the NCR still has some nukes of its own. Probably not a huge arsenal, but the threat to remove Vladivostoc, or even the potential for them to make a play for (only) Moscow cannot be discounted
True, though it's also possible that Nicky will be convinced by one of his advisors that the Russian ABM and air defense systems can handle the Californian counterstrike... and that's assuming Russia is even aware the Californians have the nukes. Which they probably weren't as of the day of the revolt, because otherwise the Russians would have moved heaven and earth either to seize them, to seize total control of the NCR's government in a coup, or both.

That's one problem with a secret nuke-preserving project like the one the NCR has. The enemy cannot be deterred by a weapon if they don't know it exists.

So I have a question, if both us and the NCR fight for american freedom and independence why are they seen as a threat or enemy to us? I understand that they are our rival in that we are both trying to be the first to form the USA but still.
Our current strategic calculations don't see them as an enemy, if you're looking at short-term choices we're making.

In the long run, well. In some ways they are like, or have been made to be like, the Victorians- they have been made by the Russians to use force on neighboring remnant factions and city-states. This was part of the price of being allowed to maintain a semi-modern infrastructure, military, and standard of living. The Victorians' "role" of breaking down any large scale organization or industry in the 'anarchic' territories east of the Rockies was fulfilled by the NCR west of the Rockies to a large extent.

So additional to any questions of politics, the NCR has made a lot of small, poor, bitter enemies who resent what they did on the Russians' behalf. And the NCR, having a vast wealth of weaponry far more advanced than almost anyone else on the continent has, is naturally predisposed towards a conquest victory. And the NCR is unlikely to be very interested in any endgame that unites the continent on terms that don't provide them with a lot of favor and special protections, at least in the immediate future.

For all these reasons, the NCR is viewed as a potential future rival.
 
So while Cali drops their new hit album "thunder in the west", what's our plan to support? I know we're kind of limited in industrial capacity but in order to actually follow up on that deal we made what do we plan to do?
 
So while Cali drops their new hit album "thunder in the west", what's our plan to support?
Not much. We agreed to do this when the Californians told us about their planned revolt. The Calfornians requested that we recognize them as a legitimate state and come to the table to agree on territorial claims.
"When we declare independence, we want you to recognize us as an independent and legitimate state, and come to the table to agree on territorial claims." We accepted these terms in exchange for Californian sabotage of Victorian F-16s.

Now, we acknowledge the NCR as an independent state and acknowledge their territorial claims at the revivalist conference.
 
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didn't mean to say that we won't get anything, but only that if we can get military equipment from, for example, Germany, then we won't be able to get equipment that is currently considered modern, but probably rather older equipment that may be part of the equipment of reserve formations.
1) We dont need bleeding edge equipment. We're fighting Victoria, not the Russians.
And technological advancement over the last forty years hasnt really advanced all that, by WoG; 6th gen aircraft are only beginning to go into advanced testing.

2)Germany is not the only member of the EU, and a a bunch of others have more pressing grudges against Victoria and its Russian puppetmaster, or just want to create a foreign distraction for Little Nicky. The French for example, who have Victoria occupying a French island, and the Poles.
So much for that, now the question remains how far other states insist that we, as one of the successor states of the former USA, take over part of the debts of the old USA.
Not relevant.
After the debt default that triggered the Collapse,the shape and size of US sovereign debt bears no resemblance to RL.
I see no reason to assume that any of it was still held by foreign entities of significant size.

And frankly, there are plenty of nationstates who do not necessarily want to see the precedent raised anymore.
The Africans for example, have gotten their shit together sufficiently to be a relevant factor, and have their own reasons to ignore it.
The relevant point is that without the US, NATO has no real reason to exist and it is much more likely that it was dissolved after the withdrawal
Agree to disagree.
The EU can find it plenty useful in roping peripheral nations like Morocco into a defense framework.
 
They have a large navy capable of offensive power projection,
Are they still with "helicopter destroyers" nonsense, or fully embrace what they are like Japan in Nihonkoku Shoukan did? Are they had "wiped their ass clean with Article 9, waive it around in direction to US like a drunk cowboys, set it on fire and burn it to ash and snort the ashes of Article 9", or are they still wishy-washy fucking around the article like Japan in Nihonkoku Shoukan as well?
and an army capable of expeditionary occupation of territories, and which does that on a large scale.
..............How they handles some issues the JSDF have, like youth population issue that they had to increase the age from 26 to 36 something even if they had to heavily invested in drones? Do they had to make regular draft to made up the numbers(though with Japan's far-right or even fringe, is the Korean-descents and Chinese-descents Japanese even get drafted, or just ignored being exist sinc ethey cant be picky? )? Plus the problems of their local arms industries, etc...


Just curious really, wondering when we fight them, are we(the commonwealth) gonna see IJA's soldiers wearing Not!JSDF uniforms and gears, complete with IJA'a kool-aids, talk mad shits about how "spirit of bull-shit-doh" is all one's need? Or was it like Gate!JSDF, being capable of causing a lot of death without betting an eyelash(like really, the amounts of deaths of the armies in Alnus Hill would've put a lot people on pause, especially when hey had to bury them all in mass graves, which they did cannonically) while being denial that what they're doing is was being Imperialistic like their WW2 ancestors with a lot more Not!Yanagida spewing how their presence in America was to foster "coo-operation for further prosperity under their guidance", which is some of the "Co-prosperity Sphere"'s rhetorics?

This should help one's further understanding of Japan's right-wing stuff. And gave us some idea of of what Japan of this quest may had done in America.

View: https://youtu.be/NCJesuBHR-g



@PoptartProdigy , what are your thought and opinions about this? Because this got me thinking, "Are we at some point gonna fight anime, manga and LN that are now gonna be heavy with Japan's right-wing and even fringe right-wing stuff, cause they gonna weaponized it like the video above's?"
 
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This is, charitably, going to be lopsided. This part of the plan is the one the NCR could best and most thoroughly plot out, and Russia's attention has been split in many directions that aren't one of its quietest and most compliant clients.
Evidently having a compliant power structure is all that matters even when the civilian population is unrelentingly hostile after three decades. If that is a preview of how the Russian natsec apparatus has made its security assessments and have run their empire for the last couple of decades, this idol's feet of clay are potentially even more fragile than I thought.

Serves them right.

If they've been so complacent in Cali, that rather raises the chances that they have been storing valuable intel and operational data off diplomatic grounds. Which would certainly be a significant windfall for Cali's natsec apparatus.
They lose. And by the time the Russian ships and embassy guards are ready to respond in some form, and the VDV is stood up and ready to embark planes to respond...it's over.
They were even considering trying to airlift VDV into a country with hostile SAMs and fifth generation aircraft in the air?
Well thats certainly a novel way to lose a wing of strategic airlifters and a brigade of paratroops.
Poor Russian Navy ships are probably trying to create distance between themselves and a suddenly hostile shoreline.

The economic ripple effects of Cali alone peacing out is likely to be profound.

By all accounts, the California economy has been exploited in unequal trade deals to extract as much value for Russian megacorps and the Russian Empire as possible. Victoria got its aircraft at cost minus, the Arctic Conservatiate got cheap consumer goods, and thats not counting the rest of the Russosphere. Or Japan.

When you consider the second-order effects on Cascadia and the Arctic Conservatiate, there's a good chance that this is going to tip Imperial Russia, the Russosphere and the Japanese Empire into an economic recession.
Imperial Russia's economy and budget is going to feel this.

Not an auspicious start to Little Nicky's reign.
Elite Reinforcements: 2 points (while there are virtually none of them on this scale, there is a small contingent of Spetznaz in San Francisco who could throw a wrench in things if not bottled up swiftly).
Californian Army regulars storm their objectives. Russian PMC forces fight back, hard, and especially in San Francisco, enjoy the support of Spetznaz forces, but that unit is not officially present, and it was in an extremely forward-leaning posture, as the (unofficial) fixers for any serious issues the Russian Empire might face on the West Coast. Other official forces present were so in much more garrison-postured roles. Not precisely sitting ready to go at the first sign of trouble.
Not officially present suggests that a bunch of people will be disavowed.

Still, Spetsnaz are light infantry. Elite light infantry, but still light infantry.
Facing off against California regulars with mechanized and air support?
The question was never that they'd win, just how much damage they'd do before going down.

I wonder how many of those PMCs were using troops recruited out of Central America.
Cheaper than Russian citizens I suspect.
The question now is how Nicky responds to be handed a fait accompli. But that one ain't up for rolls.
Hmm. We might well be looking at an escalation in Europe from Russia-dominated Romania or Bulgaria.
Or the Middle East. Or in the Arctic Conservatiate. Or Victoria.
Victoria is probably the easiest choice for compensatory muscle flexing.

What Im interested in is how Japan reacts.
Because essentially Cascadia is now on a timer. The last rebellion required use of Cali ports and territory to put down.
And China was weaker then. Thats an economic hit they can ill afford.

Imma say Nicky does not respond well, he does not seem to be the reasonable, stable sort. I predict he digs a hole for himself, at our expense.
We dont know how much power Little Nicky wields, and how much is wielded by his backers.
Hes at least reasonably competent.
 
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Not much. We agreed to do this when the Californians told us about their planned revolt. The Calfornians requested that we recognize them as a legitimate state and come to the table to agree on territorial claims.
"When we declare independence, we want you to recognize us as an independent and legitimate state, and come to the table to agree on territorial claims." We accepted these terms in exchange for Californian sabotage of Victorian F-16s.

Now, we acknowledge the NCR as an independent state and acknowledge their territorial claims at the revivalist conference.
Our part of the plan was to keep Victoria occupied so that Russia has to handle California directly.
 
Very. The institutional culture is informed by what is now the Japanese far-right and in some cases by its fringe. They have a large navy capable of offensive power projection, and an army capable of expeditionary occupation of territories, and which does that on a large scale. From our experience in their actions in the Pacific Northwest, when territory is relatively pacified they rely heavily on drone warfare and using drone strikes to keep resistance suppressed.

On a scale from grudgingly cooperating to occasional inter-service assassinations, what is the current relationship between Japan's army and navy?
 
I am actually wondering if those ships trying to put space between themselves and the California coast have the fuel to make it to Hawaii. They might try for Seattle and hope California isn't the spark to set the West on fire.
 
I am actually wondering if those ships trying to put space between themselves and the California coast have the fuel to make it to Hawaii. They might try for Seattle and hope California isn't the spark to set the West on fire.
They should. Refuelling is one of the priorities when you put into port, and ships designed to operate in the Pacific have long legs.
Either that or theyll get met by an underway replenishment tanker out of Pearl.
Shouldnt be an issue.
 
So while Cali drops their new hit album "thunder in the west", what's our plan to support? I know we're kind of limited in industrial capacity but in order to actually follow up on that deal we made what do we plan to do?
We've already done a part of our deal with California. We've shredded Victoria's expeditionary forces and force projection and thus secured California's flank. Now we just need to recognize the legitimacy of the revolt.
 
On a scale from grudgingly cooperating to occasional inter-service assassinations, what is the current relationship between Japan's army and navy?
If it is anything like their WWII incarnations, which seems to be what the modern state is based around, they hate each other. I expect the navy runs Hawaii like a fiefdom while the army does the same for sections of occupied Asia. The pullback of personnel from exploiting former US territory means they are both probably also going tooth and nail for additional manpower as China grows more restive. Honestly Japan still lacks the manpower now just as did as before to play at being a superpower. Once the drone control centers and scattered military hard-points in their occupied territory fall the army simply will not have the bodies to regain authority.
 
Our current strategic calculations don't see them as an enemy, if you're looking at short-term choices we're making.

In the long run, well. In some ways they are like, or have been made to be like, the Victorians- they have been made by the Russians to use force on neighboring remnant factions and city-states. This was part of the price of being allowed to maintain a semi-modern infrastructure, military, and standard of living. The Victorians' "role" of breaking down any large scale organization or industry in the 'anarchic' territories east of the Rockies was fulfilled by the NCR west of the Rockies to a large extent.

So additional to any questions of politics, the NCR has made a lot of small, poor, bitter enemies who resent what they did on the Russians' behalf. And the NCR, having a vast wealth of weaponry far more advanced than almost anyone else on the continent has, is naturally predisposed towards a conquest victory. And the NCR is unlikely to be very interested in any endgame that unites the continent on terms that don't provide them with a lot of favor and special protections, at least in the immediate future.

For all these reasons, the NCR is viewed as a potential future rival.

yeah, at the same time its counterbalanced by the knowledge that a united north America is better for everyone. Just having only two land borders to worry about is big. So while they may be rivals, everyone is going to want to work out a deal. The fun bit is going to be trying to come up with a deal that everyone can live with.

There is a non-zero chance the USA will rise as something more in line with the EU than a single nation. Which now that I think about it, might also make the reunification more peaceful. since it results in degrees of association if some successor states don't want to be part of a new nation.
 
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