We don't need help breaking Onogoro, least of all by letting a Dark Kingdom plot succeed.
I meant more of the aftermath. If we break Ongoro, the survivors may hate/fear us. If we avenge Ongoro, then we can scoop up a lot of otherwise hostile people without as much fuss.
Plus, showing off 'you couldn't handle the Youma, despite all your BS. We can.' would go a long way towards proving our very real superiority.
 
can we ship them to taiwan? they technically have citizenship rights there.
That sounds like the kind of action the in-character Senshi would have to explore by taking actions. Hard for us to know, again in-character.

Taking in the Amazons doesn't just result in Usagi being responsible for 1,200 people who she has to spend her AP on, it also means she gets the AP of 1,200 people. All the resources of the Amazon village are going to become the Senshi's, from its fighters to its lore.

Shampoo is going to be available for Usagi to command. Cologne is going to become her direct subordinate.
Though those formal relationships may be a bit complicated, and the Amazons are going to be very, very busy getting themselves established at first, in the long run it does give us our own small army and special agents who can hold their own against many supernatural creatures.

Very, very good point.
Delegation is a thing.
These are not 1200 babies. These are warriors with partly literally centuries of experience and accumulated resources, including money to buy necessary things, and leaders used to lead them and knowing how to do it.
Though, caveat, a lot of their applicable life experience is from living in a farm village in rural China. The number of them who know how to cope in a more modern environment (or who know anything of much use to us in the Moon Palace, where there are no enemies to beat up) is much more limited.

I'm sorry to be a debbie downer here, but I really don't want us to get unrealistic expectations here.

I wonder if the Chinese government will throw a fit/tantrum, that the Senshi decided to evacuate, the Amazons?

Seeing how, they at in RL, it is a almost guaranteed.
You may be right or not, but you're absolutely making a lot of unstated assumptions about the Chinese government to arrive at "seeing how, they at in RL."

A lot of is just feel and an ingrained reflex of no that is too small to actually function as a lasting settlement that is oh-so-common in fantasy settings though there are also a few postulations. In addition to existing as a village, they probably have duties that have to be done as wardens, and while only healers were called out and given their rather isolated nature, they probably have other people in specialized professions, carpenters, masons, blacksmiths, enchanters, and so on. Each of which, even supplemented by household gardening, would need a fair number of dedicated farmers/herders/other food-producing professions, except they live on the side (though probably more of a piedmont) of a mountain which increases the amount of effort needed and decreases the amount you get out of it.
I think you are to some extent conflating the two villages, and overestimating the minimum size of a sustainable farming village. The oni aren't necessarily entirely isolated (if nothing else they could trade with the wardens), some of their arts and crafts may be magical including food production, and they don't necessarily have many people in specialized trades. Among other things, oni seem to have superhuman longevity, which they may spend learning multiple trades or in other ways that humans do not.

The warden village absolutely isn't entirely isolated (like, they have cars and trucks, as I recall), and while Onogoro doesn't seem eager to listen to them, that doesn't mean the wardens get no external support of any kind. They also don't show nearly as much sign of delicate artistry and so on, which suggests that a lot more of their stuff may be "I bought this plywood from a hardware store" rather than "I felled this tree and worked it into timbers with hand tools myself," thus reducing the number of specialist trades required within the village itself.

1,2,3,9 are not immediately necessary.
4 and 5 are resolved, given life support is running to the point that there is a garden up there and Senshi can teleport.
6 is resolved through Queen Serenity.
7 and 10 - amazons are used to live independently. Teleportation is easy for Senshi.
8 is trivial.
9 a luxury and can be done whenever.
I should note that putting 1200 people up there all at once is something of a stress test of the life support and sanitation arrangements. You're looking at something in the vicinity of a million actual plants required to provide the oxygen, and the royal garden probably isn't that big, so you end up needing the air machinery to do some real work. I'm not at all saying it's impossible, but at a bare minimum it'd be grossly irresponsible to use this plan without sending Artemis and/or Ami up to make sure the air production is equal to the task.

(Also to seal off wings of the palace we don't want anyone poking around in; there'd be a lot of bored Amazons wandering around up there)

Teleportation is easy for Senshi, but Senshi aren't available 24/7 and we may well be carrying a lot of stuff up and down for them. It's going to get time-consuming. That ties into supplies- the Amazons are self-sufficient as a rural farm village, but we're separating them from their farms and putting them in an environment where they cannot farm or trade with neighbors for anything. They'll be dependent on the Moon Palace's amenities, and it's not clear how functional those amenities are or how easy it'll be for the Amazons to get them working.

Right, added a line to the very end of the update noting something else worth paying attention to -

If you choose not to accept them as clients at this time, that does not mean that you guys won't have the option to do so later on. This is a large decision, and if some people would rather wait and see before making that kind of decision, that is an option.
Of course, it will probably be easier to convince them to form a fixed clientage relationship with them right now as we're promising to save them from disaster than it would be later when they may have gotten settled in.
 
I meant more of the aftermath. If we break Ongoro, the survivors may hate/fear us. If we avenge Ongoro, then we can scoop up a lot of otherwise hostile people without as much fuss.
Plus, showing off 'you couldn't handle the Youma, despite all your BS. We can.' would go a long way towards proving our very real superiority.
Not really worth letting the decent ones die, I think.
 
Depending on how things resolve with Mercury, which we probably will be doing within a couple turns if we can...

Well, a lot of that will depend on how the defrosted Mercurians feel, how much extra space there is in their vault, and how many just want to move out.

But given the scale of the typical Silver Millenium construction, the Mercurian facility (which was listed as 100% operational) may well be able to absorb 1200 people without barely a blib. (Since it may well have a nominal capacity of over a million)

We'd just have the trouble that that would be an even more severe level of culture shock for both sides involved.
I think that's a little optimistic about the scale of the Mercury cryochamber.

It could be a giant city-sized cryo vault. It could be a relatively small facility in a university basement lab that only fits a hundred people or less who just happened to take cover in there during the terrifying events of the Fall. It could be anything in between for all I know. It's also on a particularly inhospitable planet that we have even less easy access to than the Moon.

Loyalty of clients.
This is not absorbing them as full on citizens under us that see us as their government.
They have their own government.
I dunno. To me it sounds kind of feudal. As in, the village has its own governing structures, council of elders, and so on, but there is absolutely a baroness and she is absolutely an authority who is expected to both protect her subjects from outsiders and provide final rulings on important matters, in exchange for her subjects taxes and willingness to fight for her.

Patron/client relationships are no joke in traditional societies.

This is a good way to literally start a war between China and Taiwan, I feel.
I don't think China would invade Taiwan over this, and I'm not entirely sure they can at this moment in history, especially with this Dark Kingdom crisis destabilizing things.

Remember, China fighting a war over this either means they specifically want the Amazons dead, not gone, and want that so much that they'd risk crossing the US military's nuclear red lines over it... Or it means that they're just that mad that people they already seem to want to eliminate just left, that the idea of them settling anywhere else is infuriating to them.

The latter seems bizarre to me. The former seems... well, I mean, Shampoo can be really annoying but is she that annoying?

Yeah, the ROC taking in the Amazons with the justification that they're Chinese citizens and in so doing implying that they are the one legitimate Chinese government and that the Senshi – who are Japanese aligned – support this, sounds like the perfect powderkeg.
I'm pretty sure the Chinese Amazons aren't the first group of Chinese nationals to take refuge on Taiwan in the past thirty to forty years at this point...

The PRC historically fired missiles into the waters around Taiwan in 1995 and set off the Third Taiwan Strait Crisis because the U.S. let the then ROC president visit his alma mater within the States. In the quest the PRC have declared martial law and have threatened to bomb the Amazons.
I don't think China is going to fight an actual war over this. Saber-rattling is one thing, isolated incidents are one thing, but for an actual war they'd have to commit vast resources and risk getting nuked.

Who's to say what they'll end up doing if they are at this time presented with a challenge to their policy of One China and their only means of fighting against the Dark Kingdom ends up moving across the strait.
Caveat: It is not obvious that the Amazons are China's only means of fighting the Dark Kingdom. They may have other means the Chinese Amazons don't know about, don't have a high opinion of, aren't telling us about, or otherwise aren't really involved with, for example.

Incidentally, is it wrong for me to want Cendrillon to break Ongoro before be get around to breaking her? It would make things much, much easier, even if it would probably scatter a lot of assets around and get some marginally innocent or good people killed.
Cendrellion's power base is youma, who have the potential to grow exponentially in numbers and power when operating unchecked. And since she's currently running a lot of operations in China, she's probably got a fair number of unchecked operations going at the moment.

By contrast, most of Onogoro's actual strength comes from individual wizards whose power level isn't beyond that of a typical basic magical girl or yokai, and who aren't even hopelessly beyond the capacity of normal cops and soldiers to take down as long as they're sort of prepared to deal with magical shenanigans.

Cendrellion is way too dangerous a threat to leave around in hopes that she'll break Onogoro, especially since even if she did break it, she'd eat it and gain more power from it.
 
Caught back up. Life kicked me in the face for a while, and I'm glad to be here in time for the vote.

I'm also glad to see there was some cool stuff about Ranma, the prophecy, and the Monkey King. Though... somehow... I think Umino might end up being the Soke-No-Do, while Ranma might take on a different role. Just a guess.

On to the vote...

[X] Promise to help the Amazons flee China. Offer them clientage.

Helping them is obvious. Clientage is interesting and I'm thinking long-term. The Crystal Millenium and the Empire of the Moon needs bodies. It is consistently the thing we mention over and over again. "We are only 9 people and two cats". This is a chance to start working to build not just an alliance, but a structured society.

Do the Amazons have troublesome traditions? Sounds like it. Does everyone always follow all traditions of their own people? Nope! And are they willing to suspend traditions in face of a crisis? Yep. And Cologne specifically calls out "until the Amazons have refounded the village and brought in at least two good harvests" To me? That sounds like three years MINIMUM.

You guys think the world isn't going to be completely reshaped and wacky in three years? And if they help us with all the other crazy forces coming to Earth, that timeline gets pushed out. So, I'm fine with them joining us and pledging loyalty to the Moon Princess.
 
[X] Promise to help the Amazons flee China. Do not offer them clientage.

I think a critical thing here is - if we take the Amazons on as our clients, we're responsible for the shit they get up to, because the buck stops with us. So if the Amazons decide that, really, there's no reason to do away with the Kisses of Death/Marriage and kidnaps/kills people as a result... Gov't and law enforcement will end up coming to have words with us. The Amazons' actions reflect on us in all ways.

Also, this and Crystal Millennium are not the same thing. With CM, Alice created the company. Alice runs the company. Alice still has to answer if need be to her father('s company). The success/failure of CM is not our personal responsibility. Taking in the Amazons and making them our clients is more like establishing an independent city-state, likely on Japanese soil.

I'd rather let them have the time to rebuild themselves somewhat and get their footing before making any considerations about clientage. If that takes years, then it takes years. We've got centuries of lifespan to look forward to at a minimum, unless we somehow die and don't self-resurrect or something.
 
I think a critical thing here is - if we take the Amazons on as our clients, we're responsible for the shit they get up to, because the buck stops with us. So if the Amazons decide that, really, there's no reason to do away with the Kisses of Death/Marriage and kidnaps/kills people as a result... Gov't and law enforcement will end up coming to have words with us. The Amazons' actions reflect on us in all ways.
It's an offer, so there will be talks, and obviously we agreed based on Cologne's promise of no excessive Anazon bs for years into the foreseeable future as tradition dictates.
 
I think a critical thing here is - if we take the Amazons on as our clients, we're responsible for the shit they get up to, because the buck stops with us. So if the Amazons decide that, really, there's no reason to do away with the Kisses of Death/Marriage and kidnaps/kills people as a result... Gov't and law enforcement will end up coming to have words with us. The Amazons' actions reflect on us in all ways.

The kisses being kept seem an unlikely ultimate outcome given Cologne's own statements on the matter.
Cologne sighs. "Honestly, having seen things play out again, the Kiss of Death has… caused a lot of trouble." She shakes her head sadly. "Pride is a killer. Perhaps now is a time to look at the old laws again..."

Plus, the Amazons becoming clients of the Senshi isn't a one way street. Part of the reason why the Senshi would be responsible for their actions is because the Amazons would be subordinate to the Senshi and subject to their rules. If an Amazon decides not to listen to the Senshi's rulings, the Senshi would be within their rights to render judgement upon them.

I'd rather let them have the time to rebuild themselves somewhat and get their footing before making any considerations about clientage. If that takes years, then it takes years. We've got centuries of lifespan to look forward to at a minimum, unless we somehow die and don't self-resurrect or something.

The Senshi may be biologically immortal but I'm not. I don't want to wait the real life decades it'll take for a year to turn over in quest time.
 
[X] Promise to help the Amazons flee China. Offer them clientage.

The Amazons might not have much magic on the same scale as the Senshi, but what they do have are martial arts Techniques.
 
I would be willing to negotiate something of a middle ground with the kisses to start with. Kiss of Death would be right out since it only really applies to "outsiders", and jurisdictions and nations outside of the Jusenkyou-Valley-Areatm don't really care if someone isn't from their own communities/nations. Someone gets murdered they're bringing them in under their own laws, and I doubt the Joketsuzoku have extradition agreements with anyone we know of or care about.

As for the Kiss of Marriage, as long as they keep it within their own communities, I don't really care if their courtship rituals involve them mutually beating each other up.

Also, This is turning into something of a landslide...
Adhoc vote count started by Almech_Alfarion on Sep 9, 2023 at 11:42 PM, finished with 125 posts and 54 votes.
 
Reading more of the comments, I think there are legitimate concerns of the mechanics of this. And I won't deny that. But, I think the idea that "this is serious" is getting conflated too much with "we are responsible for everything".

If some random Amazon goes around Kissing people and destroying bars, do the Senshi need to do anything? Maybe? More likely, Cologne beats the woman with her stick for breaking her promise and making Cologne look bad. There is after all an entire Elder Council that rules the Amazons, and is still going to be functioning. And those 300 year old elders are going to be more and more interested on staying on the Senshi's good side.

Does this mean we will do nothing and this is no bother? Of course not. No one believes that. But this isn't a society without leaders that we must lead. This is a society with leaders that we are sponsoring. That has a very different set of responsibilities. Mostly, it means that if a foreign group has problems with the Amazons, and the Amazons feel like this isn't easily resolved (Which a drunk amazon breaking a police cruiser might be easily resolved by a deep apology, reparations, and some community service to show that it was a single incident that will not be repeated) then they can come to us and we can say "These people are under our protection, so let us talk about this".

And to those who point out, rightly, that we are probably not ready to lead a thousand people. Probably not. But Kingdoms are not built by recruiting one to five people at a time. At some point, we need to start getting large groups of recruits. And the Amazon's are coming to us and are actually probably one of the EASIEST groups to start with. Think about it. Your typical Amazon is honest and straight-forward. Many of the "problems" we will deal with with them likely involve "honor" or "Why can't I just punch him?" Those are super easy problems to deal with, compared to what we may face from other groups. Secondly, they have experienced leaders who will be more than happy to help us find an acceptable path. Cologne may be manipulative, but she isn't evil. And her goals are very simple and straightforward. Keep the amazons alive. All of the worst possible things that could happen here are mitigated by Cologne not wanting them to happen, and most everyone else being willing to deal with it.

And when we invariably make mistakes... well, an earnest apology that shows we ARE trying, will likely mean a lot to these people who will literally owe us their lives and will feel honorbound to respect that.
 
[X] Promise to help the Amazons flee China. Offer them clientage.

On the one hand, the Joketsuzoku promise to be a... willful people, even if they eliminate their most objectionable traditions. They've got that trademark Ranma 1/2 zaniness and making that work out smoothly for us will take some doing.

On the other hand, it seems to me like the perfect time to become patron of a people like this is now, when we aren't already balancing the interests of various peoples and can afford to put dedicated focus on them as a single people. That is to say, now would be the easiest time to adopt a people like the Joketsuzoku.

And on the third hand... this isn't your ordinary group of people. Beyond their supernaturally strong manpower, they also bring with them an ancient history. We just heard Cologne casually talking about events of their tribe from millennia ago, along with an ancient prophesy directly relevant to the present day.

It's going to take effort, it'll be a struggle, but now is the best time for this and the rewards are far from insubstantial. It's ambitious, but I'm happy to make this our first step on the road to proper rulership.
 
The kisses being kept seem an unlikely ultimate outcome given Cologne's own statements on the matter.
Cologne is not the sole leader of her village. If a majority of the rest disagree, then it won't happen. We can't assume the opinions of the other Elders. For all we know, they'll agree to change things to get the village evacuated, then be really lackluster on enforcing the "ban" on the Kisses, if they actually bother to officially change the laws.

And to those who point out, rightly, that we are probably not ready to lead a thousand people. Probably not. But Kingdoms are not built by recruiting one to five people at a time. At some point, we need to start getting large groups of recruits.
So we should go from squad leader level leadership skills straight to battalion/regiment command because we'll need large groups of people eventually? OR jump right into building/running a city without any of the support structures that cities have, potentially within the territory of a friendly nation?

Or to put it another way, we're already in AP Hell. Taking them as our clients will worsen our AP Hell until we get things sorted out or whatever. While we're in the middle of trying to stop Beryl from ending the world. Can't this wait until the turn after we shank Beryl and Metallia? We, technically, have all the time in the world to deal with the time traveler bad guys, so some AP Hell issues at that time wouldn't be so bad.
 
That sounds like the kind of action the in-character Senshi would have to explore by taking actions. Hard for us to know, again in-character.

Heres a article I copy pasted from wikipedia

The government of the Republic of China does not recognize the People's Republic of China (PRC) and claims its official borders encompass all territories governed by the PRC. Thus, if the residents of the People's Republic of China (including Hong Kong and Macau) want to travel to Taiwan, they must do so using the Exit & Entry Permit Taiwan. Chinese passports, Hong Kong SAR passports, Macau SAR passports, and BN(O) passports are generally not stamped by Taiwan immigration officers.

However, by Article 9-1, "[t]he people of the Taiwan Area may not have household registrations in the mainland China or hold passports issued by the Mainland China." If they obtain the passport or household registration of the People's Republic of China (PRC), they will be deprived of their ROC Passport and household registration in Taiwan.[22] [23] It does not apply to Hong Kong and Macau in the sense that, if the residents of Hong Kong and Macau have settled permanently in Taiwan and gain citizenship rights as below, they are allowed to keep the passports as travel documents.

If the residents of the People's Republic of China (including Hong Kong and Macau) seek to settle permanently in Taiwan and gain citizenship rights, they do not naturalize like citizens of foreign countries. Instead, they merely can establish household registration, which in practice takes longer and is more complicated than naturalization. Article 9 does not apply to overseas Chinese holding foreign nationality who seek to exercise ROC nationality. Such people do not need to naturalize because they are already legally ROC nationals. Residents of the People's Republic of China (including Hong Kong and Macau), only after gaining permanent resident status abroad, or otherwise establishing a period of residency defined by the regulations, become eligible for a Taiwan passport but do not gain benefits of citizenship.

There is historical presidence for us to let them flee to taiwan btw. during the Cold War a lot of people defected back and forth,

and remember this is at the pinnacle of american power. The us just won the Cold War, this is not the era of putin and winnie the pooh the us still has more nukes a qualitatively better army and a significantly larger navy. The Chinese know they are out gunned and wont commit suicide by america just because some amazons defected. Sure it's gonna hurt their dark kingdom efforts in the short term. But they could just fall back on the traditional Mao Zedong tactic of doing a massive paranoia fuelled purge of anyone suspected to be dark kingdom sympathizers for I seriously doubt any youma or general can stop a very angry horde of chinese tanks and conscripts and security personnel who saw their countrymen dying on the streets

If they are gonna go toe to toe with America it will be not right now. Saber rattling at best and some assassinations at worst. No war with Taiwan today sir (and by the off chance Jiang Zemin tries something stupid and goes insane and tries to invade Taiwan he will be couped by the army and the sane people who dont want a war with America right now)
 
Last edited:
Taking on clients presents a bit of a bootstrapping problem. To fulfill our new obligations, we would ideally already have clients to help fulfill them with. But you have to start somewhere, and here seems to be as good of a place as any.

[X] Promise to help the Amazons flee China. Offer them clientage.

Don't we have a bunch of people on Mercury that we want to get off there? Meaning the Amazons wouldn't be the only refugees we'll end up managing?
Yes, but we don't know how many, the computer just told us they're at 59% capacity:
「Mercurian Academy of Sorcery Prototype Cryochamber 0001: 1 Atmospheric Pressure; Atmosphere Safe; 64 degrees. 59% Capacity; Hydroponics Lab 001 Stable; Environmental Conditions Stable; Environmental Systems Green. Exterior systems detect intractable conditions. Unsafe to Open.」
But it sounds like it was an early prototype, so I'd be surprised if they had capacity for more than 100 people.
 
Last edited:
[] Promise to help the Amazons flee China. Offer them clientage.

I'm starting to feel like Luna is becoming the face of Crystal millenniums customer service. Maybe we should see if we can have some new face fill in as our spymaster.

Shampoo is a bit of a lunatic and partially cat so she might be a good candidate her great-great grandmother might be competent for the position though.

EDIT: changed my mind
[X] Promise to help the Amazons flee China. Do not offer them clientage.
 
Last edited:
I'm pretty sure the Chinese Amazons aren't the first group of Chinese nationals to take refuge on Taiwan in the past thirty to forty years at this point...

The difference here is that the Amazons play a major role in the PRC's campaign against the Dark Kingdom, no matter how much the PRC may dislike them. That's what makes them going over to Taiwan particularly incendiary. Think of the situation less like a bunch of harmless refugees going over and more like a PLAN warship defecting.

But they could just fall back on the traditional Mao Zedong tactic of doing a massive paranoia fuelled purge of anyone suspected to be dark kingdom sympathizers for I seriously doubt any youma or general can stop a very angry horde of chinese tanks and conscripts and security personnel who saw their countrymen dying on the streets

The TMPD sent 30 men and woman armed with automatic weapons and grenades after a youma. In the opening moments of the battle it proceeded to kill 18 of those 30 while laughing off rifle caliber rounds. It could only be harmed – harmed mind you not killed – by hand grenades. The survivors eventually incapacitated it after blowing it up with a cluster of ten grenades but even after that the thing was still alive.

I don't agree that deploying the PLA is as much of a game changer as you seem to think it is. Mundane soldiers are obscenely outmatched by youma. Tanks might have the firepower to hurt youma but they aren't ideal of fighting infantry sized targets with supernatural speed. There's also the fact that the PRC has already deployed the PLA and that hasn't resulted in reversing the PRC's fortunes against the Dark Kingdom.
- Following the increasing attacks from the Dark Kingdom, China has implemented a universal curfew across all of their cities, requiring all citizens to be in their homes by Eight PM, after which the People's Liberation Army shall have total control of the streets, working to hunt down and smoke out the Dark Kingdom and all of it's assets.
 
We don't need help breaking Onogoro, least of all by letting a Dark Kingdom plot succeed.
Or rather, we already have help.

I meant more of the aftermath. If we break Ongoro, the survivors may hate/fear us. If we avenge Ongoro, then we can scoop up a lot of otherwise hostile people without as much fuss.
Plus, showing off 'you couldn't handle the Youma, despite all your BS. We can.' would go a long way towards proving our very real superiority.
This is either foolishness or a promise to engage in a kind of cruelty that I refuse to support.

The TMPD sent 30 men and woman armed with automatic weapons and grenades after a youma. In the opening moments of the battle it proceeded to kill 18 of those 30 while laughing off rifle caliber rounds. It could only be harmed – harmed mind you not killed – by hand grenades. The survivors eventually incapacitated it after blowing it up with a cluster of ten grenades but even after that the thing was still alive.

I don't agree that deploying the PLA is as much of a game changer as you seem to think it is. Mundane soldiers are obscenely outmatched by youma. Tanks might have the firepower to hurt youma but they aren't ideal of fighting infantry sized targets with supernatural speed. There's also the fact that the PRC has already deployed the PLA and that hasn't resulted in reversing the PRC's fortunes against the Dark Kingdom.
Also, remember: if this is like the OTL, then the Dark-whatevers can probably just mind control them, even if they don't feel like casting a more immediately fatal form of "dispel army"
 
Back
Top