Transposition, or: Ship Happens [Worm/Aoki Hagane no Arpeggio | Arpeggio of Blue Steel]

They probably can, but that doesn't mean that uranium or plutonium justr magically disappear
It depends on whether nanomachines can operate on a sub-atomic level.

There ARE ways to dispose of radioactive waste, but they're energy-intensive. Tokomak fusion plants can be used to burn them up entirely by tossing the waste into the plasma; it's an approach to using fusion to make fission cleaner even though fusion plants aren't yet net-positive energy producers. Build a tokomac that's powered partially by a neighboring fission plant, and drop the waste into the plasma stream. It won't consume a LOT of power, since it produces ALMOST enough to break even, but it will eliminate the need to transport and safely store away the waste materials.

Of course, fog-tech probably has other ways to use the heavy elements. What Taylor will do with them will be interesting to see.
 
Not necessarily. Taylor could convert random dirt into nanomaterial and use that to rebuild the port infrastructure. In a matter of days, even.
Hummmm... I'm not 100% sure, but from what I've read in the manga and seen in the anime, nanomaterials are a scarce commodity and hard to manufacture. Otherwise Hyuuga could have rebuilt her hull instead of turning what was left of her into a makeshift fortification.
Shipping will come, then. Not much, but some, because there's some demand for goods in a newly opened port city.
I forgot to address the post you are quoting, and you are partially right. Some goods possibly will be delivered directly to Brockton Bay, as they are for local consumption, if it's cheaper to do it directly instead of, for example, such goods being unloaded in Boston and transported by truck or train to BB.

Similarly, companies will resume their trading routes with BB if, and only if, the port has the infrastructure to handle the cargo, and it's more economical for them to do so.

So, if for example, delivering the goods in BB instead of Boston reduces the time by one day, the affected companies will go back to BB in a heartbeat, because one less day means one day less of wear and tear in the ship, less fuel, less crew salaries and food, and of course, it means the goods are delivered one day earlier.

There is still a lot to be done so the port can get fully active, like refurbishing the warehouses for storing the goods, putting up to date the cranes for unloading the cargo, checking the railways for bulk transport, and a lot of other details. All of that is in the hands of BBPA and City Hall.

Oh, and Taylor didn't clear the access channel, so it has to be clogged with sediments.
 
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I forgot to address the post you are quoting, and you are partially right. Some goods possibly will be delivered directly to Brockton Bay, as they are for local consumption, if it's cheaper to do it directly instead of, for example, such goods being unloaded in Boston and transported by truck or train to BB.
So far as I know it is NEVER cheaper to use a truck or train when you can get it there by boat. While some things might have changed due to this being earth bet it would be gauranteed on our earth that anything that could be delivered would be delivered.
So, if for example, delivering the goods in BB instead of Boston reduces the time by one day, the affected companies will go back to BB in a heartbeat, because one less day means one day less of wear and tear in the ship, less fuel, less crew salaries and food, and of course, it means the goods are delivered one day earlier.
So far as I know when a company is debating shipping via sea vs shipping by land they do not care about time only money.
 
So far as I know when a company is debating shipping via sea vs shipping by land they do not care about time only money.
Not necessarily. It depends on the specific goods.

There are goods that are so time-sensitive that air delivery is actually profitable. Or the only way to deliver them.

But generally speaking, yes, money trumps time. It's cheaper to move ten containers worth of televisions in a single ship than sending ten trucks with one container each, if we are talking about having both options available. And usually cargo in bulk doesn'thave strict deadlines.

It's more complicated than that, specially with international shipping involved, but the point is that if it's cheaper to deliver in BB than in Boston, shipping companies will move to BB, as soon as the port is working and has land routes to further move the cargo to their final destinations.
 
There ARE ways to dispose of radioactive waste, but they're energy-intensive. Tokomak fusion plants can be used to burn them up entirely by tossing the waste into the plasma; it's an approach to using fusion to make fission cleaner even though fusion plants aren't yet net-positive energy producers. Build a tokomac that's powered partially by a neighboring fission plant, and drop the waste into the plasma stream. It won't consume a LOT of power, since it produces ALMOST enough to break even, but it will eliminate the need to transport and safely store away the waste materials.

"tossing into the plasma" is not even close to the description of the process involved. The process you are describing would be highly inadvisable and far less power efficient than the 'place the fission waste in a layer around the fusion system and channel the beta radiation the fusion system generates into it to accelerate the process of decay'. Putting the fissile material in the plasma would force the plasma to dump thermal energy into a non-fusible material. While I have seen the term 'burn' used in articles, it is as a stand in for 'induced accelerated decay' rather than any chemical or thermal related reason.
 
It's more complicated than that, specially with international shipping involved, but the point is that if it's cheaper to deliver in BB than in Boston, shipping companies will move to BB, as soon as the port is working and has land routes to further move the cargo to their final destinations.
The world of Worm doesn't adequately resemble a world that has no (or even limited) international shipping. So, absent something really damn compelling otherwise, it aint'n't dead.

No one ever complains about food shortages, lack of building supplies, cars not being available... they have international Nazi groups. They have consumer electronics. Everything in the world of Worm points to international shipping being alive and well.

Brockton Bay's shipping is specifically dead because of the boat graveyard.

The world as a whole, not so much. I'll remind you that Leviathan does less damage than a hurricane, outside of two notable (and extremely poorly-thought-out) events, and has racked up only about twenty attacks on port cities in his decades-long 'reign of terror'.

Weather events are literally more of a problem than Leviathan. That's not hyperbole, that's just how it is. The way Worm is written, he's just plain not a big deal unless he's out to kick your specific ass, personally.
 
The world of Worm doesn't adequately resemble a world that has no (or even limited) international shipping. So, absent something really damn compelling otherwise, it aint'n't dead.

No one ever complains about food shortages, lack of building supplies, cars not being available... they have international Nazi groups. They have consumer electronics. Everything in the world of Worm points to international shipping being alive and well.

Brockton Bay's shipping is specifically dead because of the boat graveyard.

The world as a whole, not so much. I'll remind you that Leviathan does less damage than a hurricane, outside of two notable (and extremely poorly-thought-out) events, and has racked up only about twenty attacks on port cities in his decades-long 'reign of terror'.

Weather events are literally more of a problem than Leviathan. That's not hyperbole, that's just how it is. The way Worm is written, he's just plain not a big deal unless he's out to kick your specific ass, personally.

In what way do weather events sink whole islands?
 
In what way do weather events sink whole islands?
outside of two notable (and extremely poorly-thought-out) events,

In real life though, Puerto Rico and Indonesia say hi. Tsunamis do effectively similar damage. We've never stopped using boats yet.

There's two ways to interpret the sinking of Kyushu and Newfoundland in Worm, but they basically both go back to 'author error', because either A) the landmasses didn't really sink, and it's just a tsunami or something similar, which means everyone who talks about it is exaggerating like crazy, or B) the landmasses actually sunk, in which case.... everyone on planet earth is dead, because either one would functionally be a global extinction level event.

There is no C) the islands sank but it didn't damage anything else, because that's just a very poor understanding of geography and physics.
 
In real life though, Puerto Rico and Indonesia say hi. Tsunamis do effectively similar damage. We've never stopped using boats yet.

There's two ways to interpret the sinking of Kyushu and Newfoundland in Worm, but they basically both go back to 'author error', because either A) the landmasses didn't really sink, and it's just a tsunami or something similar, which means everyone who talks about it is exaggerating like crazy, or B) the landmasses actually sunk, in which case.... everyone on planet earth is dead, because either one would functionally be a global extinction level event.

There is no C) the islands sank but it didn't damage anything else, because that's just a very poor understanding of geography and physics.
Your B) is greatly over stated (while an uncontroled sinking/collapse of such large landmasses would be a global disaster it wouldn't be killing everyone. Also additional options you seem to be ignoring:
C)Leviathan controlled the "sinking" (or more likely spreading the dirt/rock out so a lot of it is under water) to eliminate most of the large scale effects(of course this means that everyone should know that the Endbringers are controlling things to do only so much damage and not more, but that should be true regardless so it doesn't introduce any additional plot holes IMO).
D)While parahumans were unable to stop Leviathan, they were able to mitigate a lot of the effects (possibly by having Doormaker opening giant portals from deep in the ocean to some alternate earth to shunt several cubic km of water away - assuming the "sinking" was done gradually which fits canon descriptions, that would be enough to prevent most of the immediately dangerous global effects.
E)A combination of C & D, possibly with a bit of A (the entire landmass didn't sink, just part of it).
 
So the whole "international shipping is DEAD" thing it boils down to a combination of dumb fanon and writers having no sense of scale or the understanding of intricate workings of international trade? That's very surprising. :V
 
So the whole "international shipping is DEAD" thing it boils down to a combination of dumb fanon and writers having no sense of scale or the understanding of intricate workings of international trade? That's very surprising. :V

International shipping can be dead from more than just ports being hit.

It can be dead because industrial heartlands and energy sources are being blown to bits. Iranian oil fields. Switzerland. Kyushu. Madrid. New York. Every three months, a population center is wiped from the face of the earth. Sometimes its small, like Madison. Sometimes they're major financial centers like New York or even entire nations like Switzerland.

Fact is, this isn't a sustainable loss. Even when Texas got hit by that hurricane a while back, the industries more or less survived intact by bunkering down and waiting for the storm to pass. You don't have that here.

There's no international shipping because there's no industry to spare for international shipping. Energy prices are skyrocketing because the major suppliers of oil are on fire. Industries are hit hard because the factories are getting blown up. Major financial centers get leveled with the total loss of skilled financiers AND their records.

Leviathan was simply the cherry on the shit sundae.

And that doesn't even get into the more human problems. Africa is a complete writeoff because of parahuman warlords, China is in isolation doing Superpowers: The Juchening while Europe is struggling with literal Nazi's who are very close to becoming a nuclear power. And let's not forget that parts of America are being written off as complete lost causes either from Endbringer attacks or outright parahuman warlords taking over.

International trade? What international trade? International trade like we enjoy today only works because of large scale peace AND an existing framework that the Americans exploited heavily to cement their position (of course it's being busily torn down now by the same Americans) in the global market.

But there's none of that here is there? You have the Endbringers wrecking cities, parahuman warlords, Asia closing itself off from the world, the whole mess is collapsing and economies as a result are shrinking, focusing more on locally sourced materials rather than internationally.

Blaming only Leviathan is the simplistic solution that ignores the far larger picture and underlying problems.
 
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Blaming only Leviathan is the simplistic solution that ignores the far larger picture and underlying problems.
Except for the fact that this does not match Worm or this story, because we aren't seeing any of the effects on daily living that would arise from suddenly not having access to, say, the overseas oil fields that provide a massive portion of the oil used by the United States. Which would mean that it's likely that Danny wouldn't be driving to work, because gas prices are nuts due to major demand on a massively reduced supply. Likewise, the electronics industry likely couldn't exist as we see it in Worm without international trade, because otherwise these electronic devices would be catastrophically expensive due to difficulties in economically acquiring rare earth minerals.
 
Except for the fact that this does not match Worm or this story, because we aren't seeing any of the effects on daily living that would arise from suddenly not having access to, say, the overseas oil fields that provide a massive portion of the oil used by the United States. Which would mean that it's likely that Danny wouldn't be driving to work, because gas prices are nuts due to major demand on a massively reduced supply. Likewise, the electronics industry likely couldn't exist as we see it in Worm without international trade, because otherwise these electronic devices would be catastrophically expensive due to difficulties in economically acquiring rare earth minerals.

Nevermind the electronics, IIRC it's been pointed out Taylor's family situation is described as struggling, yet the meals they eat have things like pasta and fresh vegetables that are not something you get when trying to make ends meet.

Wildbow simply sucked at matching environments to the events he set up. In all likelihood, he simply threw together the tags like "poverty" "world in a shitter" with major events to set them in motion but without actually considering how it'd effect day to day living.
 
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Nevermind the electronics, IIRC it's been pointed out Taylor's family situation is described as struggling, yet the meals they eat have things like pasta and fresh vegetables that are not something you get when trying to make ends meet.

Wildbow simply sucked at matching environments to the events he set up. In all likelihood, he simply threw together the tags like "poverty" "world in a shitter" with major events to set them in motion but without actually considering how it'd effect day to day living.
Yeah, probably. Good point on the vegetables thing.
 
To be fair, the only things I've seen from Wildbow on the topic is that shipping has had a bit of a downturn because of Leviathan doing a bunch of damage to ports. Everything else is just about Brocton Bay in specific. That's actually reasonable, because Levi does a ton of damage and acts ~ once a year so would be a significant increase in destruction compared to normal weather-based events. Hurricanes like what hit Puerto Rico are expected at once every 50-100 years after all.
 
Except for the fact that this does not match Worm or this story, because we aren't seeing any of the effects on daily living that would arise from suddenly not having access to, say, the overseas oil fields that provide a massive portion of the oil used by the United States.
Except that that crisis would be ~20 years in the past and between N. America oil and coal reserves, and tinkertech or tinkertech derived solutions it's quite possible this wouldn't be a problem.

That said, "international shipping is dead" doesn't fit anything Wildbow wrote, it being significantly reduced (along with all other industry and trade) does fit canon (at least if you ignore the impossibility of Worm's incredibly fast yet static collapse of society).

because otherwise these electronic devices would be catastrophically expensive due to difficulties in economically acquiring rare earth minerals.
Unless they are built without rare earth minerals, or they developed a technique to get them economically from deposits in the US.

Nevermind the electronics, IIRC it's been pointed out Taylor's family situation is described as struggling,
Pretty sure them struggling financially is pure fanon. They aren't rich but the only evidence for them struggling financially anyone ever offered is:
1)Danny works long hours (ignoring the fact that he appears to treat his job as a crusade, that he threw himself into work after his wife died, and thus would probably have worked long hours even if he didn't need the money).
2)The front step of their house is broken and hasn't been repaired(ignoring that given Taylor and Danny's mental state they could simply be ignoring such repairs, not because of financial reasons but simply because they didn't care enough to do something about it. Given how little such a repair would cost even IF neither Danny, or any of his buddies were able to do so on their own I find attributing it to financial reasons pretty odd).

Wildbow simply sucked at matching environments to the events he set up.
This is true, and Taylor's hair is a great example of this. However to the best of my knowledge he never said the Heberts were poor, just that they didn't have as much money as the Barnes.

To be fair, the only things I've seen from Wildbow on the topic is that shipping has had a bit of a downturn because of Leviathan doing a bunch of damage to ports. Everything else is just about Brocton Bay in specific. That's actually reasonable, because Levi does a ton of damage and acts ~ once a year so would be a significant increase in destruction compared to normal weather-based events. Hurricanes like what hit Puerto Rico are expected at once every 50-100 years after all.
THIS. very much this.
I'll even go further and note that even with all the issues Brockton Bay has it STILL gets some shipping (at least until Leviathan smashed the entire city), so it would make sense that larger ports without BB's issues would still be handling a lot of shipping.
 
Yes there is.

Nanomaterials. That's a big hard limit. Nanomaterials lets Taylor cheat her way through the entire production phase from resource gathering to final assembly. It's all well and good if your blueprints say "put superconductor lines here with these values", but it starts running into problems when mere humans can't even produce superconductors yet, nevermind the assembly plants to make them in mass quantities.

Even if Taylor dispensed blueprints and first principles, it will be years before you start seeing any kind of mass production.

And even then you still get issues. I mean Akagi kept burning out the human made super conductors and systems when she was trying to be a power plant. The are impurities, wear, poor storage and just tiny imperfections that eventually will break, but the Fog simply can rebuild that section by recycling nanomaterial and sifting off the broken bits with new parts... without having to replace the entire thing. That's insane for 'routine maintenance' and keeping uptime at levels and loads that would impossible for human systems even with same specs.

It's also how the Fog repair so fast. Just recycle to fix vital sections and keep going. Repulse did it to fix her heavily damaged hull and Takao did it Mid Combat
 
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Yes there is.

Nanomaterials. That's a big hard limit. Nanomaterials lets Taylor cheat her way through the entire production phase from resource gathering to final assembly. It's all well and good if your blueprints say "put superconductor lines here with these values", but it starts running into problems when mere humans can't even produce superconductors yet, nevermind the assembly plants to make them in mass quantities.

Even if Taylor dispensed blueprints and first principles, it will be years before you start seeing any kind of mass production.

Just give them a bucket full of nanomaterial to star with. Problem solved.
Sure, humanity would probably be quite stumped trying to reverse engineer it in anything short of a few decades (Ignoring Dragon or other tinkers that might make some sense of it), but if Taylor gives them the technology, they have it. That's the neat thing about technology. It's not magic. It's reproducible.
 
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Just give them a bucket full of nanomaterial to star with. Problem solved.
Sure, the humanity would probably be quite stumped trying to reverse engineer it in anything short of a few decades, but if Taylor gives them the technology, they have it. That's the neat thing about technology. It's not magic. It's reproducible.

Does Taylor have a spare Fog core? No. Does she have a spare Shard to hook up to it? Also no.

The nanomaterial sits there uselessly because humanity doesn't have a continent sized transdimensional supercomputer to manipulate it with or give it orders.

You really need to think your solutions through.
 
Does Taylor have a spare Fog core? No. Does she have a spare Shard to hook up to it? Also no.

The nanomaterial sits there uselessly because humanity doesn't have a continent sized transdimensional supercomputer to manipulate it with or give it orders.

You really need to think your solutions through.
And there's a very high chance that in the process of trying to figure out how to do that they'll accidentally Grey Goo Earth Bet.
 
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