Transposition, or: Ship Happens [Worm/Aoki Hagane no Arpeggio | Arpeggio of Blue Steel]

Without digging through WoGs, it was implied in Eden Interlude


I'm pretty sure it's a lie. Kotono Amaha is older than Facility 4 incident.
And i doubt that some experiment there coincided in time with Great Naval Battle.
My thoughts on the Facility 4 reveal:
This could be confirmed with a timeline laying out when Shouzou attacked and the Facility 4 fire. I'm thinking 402 is referring to current iterations of mental models. Yamato, Nagato, and Bismark are the highest ranked and also possibly the 'oldest' active mental models and are the only ones shown with 'twins'. One of the timelines in the manga indicate that Bismark makes contact with Gauss' team sometime in the 1940s. But how was contact made without a mental model? We know from Kotono was watched by the Gretel prior to the fire from Kotono's interlude. What if one half of the 'twins' was human and rather then flesh and blood is now made of nanomaterials.
 
Precog shards work via mathematical modelling. If something is literally unpredictable, over time any and all precogs become unreliable due to compound errors. I doubt that ensou wants that kind of AU.
Except that the shards aren't static. They're perfectly capable of updating any models they use/create. This is specifically shown for Dinah and Contessa, who's results/paths change whenever something like Endbringers or other unknown quantities affects them.

They might not ever be able to 100% predict what something completely unpredictable will do, but they won't ignoring what it's done in the past, and they'll change the way they predict things about it in the future.
 
This is specifically shown for Dinah and Contessa, who's results/paths change whenever something like Endbringers or other unknown quantities affects them.
Shards know what Endbringers will do, they just don't report to the user.

And of course, they update models - refer to Dinah probabilities shift rapidly accounting to decisions made.

But such a model is a problem in crossovers if there some factors outside of shards "database" - they don't know enough to predict actions and it via butterfly effect it erodes model on global scale.
 
Last edited:
But such a model is a problem in crossovers if there some factors outside of shards "database" - they don't know enough to predict actions and it via butterfly effect it erodes model on global scale.
They exist to learn new things and create new data from what they learn. Just because the first examples don't tell the shards everything they need to know doesn't mean they can't learn enough.

They don't have anything in their database? They create what the need from what they can observe.

Just because something is different doesn't mean that every Thinker shard everywhere will suddenly start sliding into uselessness over time. They correct for mistakes all the time, as you agreed. Generalisations can be made. And for the vast majority of Thinker shards near enough really is good enough, because outside of special cases the shards don't give results that care about accuracy in any great deal.
 
Shards know what Endbringers will do, they just don't report to the user.

And of course, they update models - refer to Dinah probabilities shift rapidly accounting to decisions made.

But such a model is a problem in crossovers if there some factors outside of shards "database" - they don't know enough to predict actions and it via butterfly effect it erodes model on global scale.
The entities were capable of perfectly simulating the Earth before the Entities even knew the Earth existed. In fact it is how they decided to go to Earth, while outside the galactic cluster. They used precog to see what their destination would be.
Shards whole point of existence is that they are really really good at learning and observing new things. Multiple WOGs is that an OOC problem would have shards attempting to learn and adjust because that is what they do.
 
They don't have anything in their database? They create what the need from what they can observe.
I'm under impression that Entities scan planet(s) of destination before making decision to seed it with shards.
Because there are civilization that can mount defense against them and if danger is too high, they simply don't go there. (Also refer the "walling off" dimensional cluster around Earth Bet to not get interruptions from some of civilization on alternative Earthes)
During this time they absorb local skills and technical capabilities - so they can use them alter or download them to users (Uber, for example. Or even Fortuna who had information how to make potions from local plants).

Multiple WOGs is that an OOC problem would have shards attempting to learn and adjust because that is what they do.
Yes, of course - but they, natively, exist in purely materialist universe.
It's problem with crossovers, if something truly unpredictable via laws of physics (magic, etc.) - it will be a problem.

Fog tech, is, however, just as clark-tech, and not magic, and therefore perfectly observable and predictable.

On a question of "does Fog has anti-precog defenses" - they do not. Note that prior to acquiring Mental Models they did not have concept of forward planning at all. They are automated weapons, no more.
At Admiralty Code level there may be some, but i doubt it, concept is highly esoteric and not meshes well with decently hard sci-fi that they are going.
 
I'm under impression that Entities scan planet(s) of destination before making decision to seed it with shards.
Because there are civilization that can mount defense against them and if danger is too high, they simply don't go there. (Also refer the "walling off" dimensional cluster around Earth Bet to not get interruptions from some of civilization on alternative Earthes)
During this time they absorb local skills and technical capabilities - so they can use them alter or download them to users (Uber, for example. Or even Fortuna who had information how to make potions from local plants).


Yes, of course - but they, natively, exist in purely materialist universe.
It's problem with crossovers, if something truly unpredictable via laws of physics (magic, etc.) - it will be a problem.

Fog tech, is, however, just as clark-tech, and not magic, and therefore perfectly observable and predictable.

On a question of "does Fog has anti-precog defenses" - they do not. Note that prior to acquiring Mental Models they did not have concept of forward planning at all. They are automated weapons, no more.
At Admiralty Code level there may be some, but i doubt it, concept is highly esoteric and not meshes well with decently hard sci-fi that they are going.
They scan the planet's they are going to via precog. We see Scion and Eden making the decision that Earth is their final destination. They used precog to see what the Earth would be like and if it fit, used precog to determine which specific universes should be used, etc.
The entities barely follow the laws of physics as is(hell they have actual time travel). Magic is explicitly something shards should be capable of learning about. Unless your talking about a form of magic that would be unusable by anyone. Because if magic has any consistency(which it would have to have in order for it to be used in any macro manner) it has to have something that can be observed and learned
 
We are all forgetting something. QA (halping!). She is, after all, the admin shard. She would be very well aware of how the entities use their predictive algorithms. And, most likely, is also keenly aware of what other species have used to defeat said predictive algorithms. With Queenies defection to Fog, she chances of Fog having an ECM suite that can counter the predictive algorithms (Ie, precog) of the entities is near 100%. Unfortunately, considering the way she is acting, she probably won't think to use it until after Relentless has dealt with a precog, or been affected by a precog.
 
We are all forgetting something. QA (halping!). She is, after all, the admin shard. She would be very well aware of how the entities use their predictive algorithms. And, most likely, is also keenly aware of what other species have used to defeat said predictive algorithms. With Queenies defection to Fog, she chances of Fog having an ECM suite that can counter the predictive algorithms (Ie, precog) of the entities is near 100%. Unfortunately, considering the way she is acting, she probably won't think to use it until after Relentless has dealt with a precog, or been affected by a precog.
There is also the question if QA is able to build the ECM, cause I highly doubt that a (comparatively) Non-combat shard has one already installed. I suspect that, like most modern generals, QA primarily relies on a bodyguard of other shards as its primary defense.
 
There is also the question if QA is able to build the ECM, cause I highly doubt that a (comparatively) Non-combat shard has one already installed. I suspect that, like most modern generals, QA primarily relies on a bodyguard of other shards as its primary defense.
Able to may not matter. If the Union Core's link to QA is expandable in its own way, the shard could get nanomaterial for...renovations. Granted, may not happen for a long time(and I apologize in advance if i missed someone talking about this in the past) and may need Inference Engine/Repurposed Jack shard (not sure what the canon name is but I've heard it called Broadcast/Negotiation) to acquire blueprints as it were, and this is kind of an off the deep end theory, but interesting to consider.
 
They scan the planet's they are going to via precog. We see Scion and Eden making the decision that Earth is their final destination. They used precog to see what the Earth would be like and if it fit, used precog to determine which specific universes should be used, etc.
The entities barely follow the laws of physics as is(hell they have actual time travel). Magic is explicitly something shards should be capable of learning about. Unless your talking about a form of magic that would be unusable by anyone. Because if magic has any consistency(which it would have to have in order for it to be used in any macro manner) it has to have something that can be observed and learned

The problem with this line of thinking is that renders the entities essentially unassailable due to knowing everything and having every power ever. Even in canon, Scion commited suicide, he wasn't actually overcome even by the multitudes of parahumans that khepri brought against him. If their precog is so perfect (which it obviously isn't, take note of what happened to Eden) then you've lost before you've even begun.
 
The problem with this line of thinking is that renders the entities essentially unassailable due to knowing everything and having every power ever. Even in canon, Scion commited suicide, he wasn't actually overcome even by the multitudes of parahumans that khepri brought against him. If their precog is so perfect (which it obviously isn't, take note of what happened to Eden) then you've lost before you've even begun.
Eden's precog was both damaged and not on when she crashed. Despite fanon having Abbadon's precog having been the better one, it was canonically worse.
Entities explicitly don't use precog all the time once the cycle starts. They use it before the cycle and when they encounter something that could possibly threaten them. Because the entities actually care about energy efficiency over hundreds of years. Scions interlude notes that the entities could skip the cycle if they wanted, being able to use precog to see everything that would have happened in the cycle, it just isn't energy efficient and wouldn't be worth anything if the cycle wasn't a good cycle
 
Welcome to the Bay of Fog, Usurper by Shadedancer
Omake: Welcome to the Bay of Fog, Usurper.


A sound. That terrible, resonant call was the only warning anyone had that things were about to change for Brockton Bay. The Endbringer Sirens had been activated. Dennis froze mid sentence, before sighing slightly and continuing. "Sorry Dad, I'll have to finish that story about Missy and her new friend later. Duty calls." He turned away from the comatose figure and left the hospital room, rapidly breaking to a jog as he neared the main lobby. Wouldn't do anyone good if he was stuck in a panicked herd trying to escape the building.


Clockblocker hit the door to the assembly area at a dead sprint and skid to a halt next to Aegis and Gallant. Aegis easily caught him as he keeled over, panting from the exertion.


"Nice to see you made it in time Clock," Aegis started, and Clock blinked for a moment. Had he really made that statement without realizing the pun potential? File that for later to poke him about, Aegis was still talking. "I don't suppose you passed Vista on the way here?" Dennis frowned inside his helmet for a moment and straightened.


"No... she was much closer to the Rig than I was, something about ice cream with a friend. She should have been back already even if she had to find a good time to separate from them. Has she checked in at all?" Aegis shook his head even as he waved over Kid Win who had just entered with a batch of Tinkers from... New York? New Jersey? New something. "We got a text when the mess first started saying she was "helping a potential parahuman asset" but nothing since. Piggot was livid, but ordered us to form up anyway, we don't have time to search for her and her phone dropped off the grid not long after."


That was... more than a little concerning. Clock opened his mouth, to say what he wasn't totally sure, when Legend strode into the room. He listened to the (de)motivational speech with half an ear, still thinking about Vista dropping off the map and...her...friend... crap.


"Aegis!" he hissed under his breath. "Do we know if her friend is a parahuman?"


New triggers were traumatic as hell after all and if Vista's friend didn't have full control yet she could have accidentally teleported then to Tahiti for all they knew, or just thrown up a techbane field that was cutting Vista off from comms. Aegis blinked for a moment and cursed. "We'll find her later, for now focus on what we can do." Clock turned back to Legend as he finished his speech, grabbing an armband as the box passed him. "These armbands will-"


Bang


The building shook in its foundations as a sharp report echoed the bay. Clockblocker tilted his head slightly. The hell? That felt like it came from the Docks. He glanced out the window at the shipyard, which PHO had had a panic attack about a few weeks back ( To be fair buildings up and repairing themselves was slightly more BS than "normal" powers. ) and froze. From this angle he had an excellent view of a model-perfect WW2 battle ship sailing full throttle into the bay. That said, he didn't think the standard model originally came with glowing Sigil paint jobs.


Or matte-black plate anywhere there wasn't a backlit line.


And he definitely knew the freaking laser cannons were not factory standard.


The Tinker ship hit open water and formed up in line with a full battle group, all similarly equipped. The cannons rotated slightly, each tracking the same target if he had to guess. He idly wondered why they weren't broadside so the back guns could come into play, then as if his thoughts had been heard, the back guns abruptly seemed to fold and remain still at the same time. At this point, Dennis' mind pretty much blue screened and he started to chuckle.


"You think the Endbringer is funny child?" snarled one of the Brutes behind him. Reminiscent of Lung if he was being honest.


"Not at all," Clock said, now laughing outright. "just thinking that some Tinker apparently decided they don't make them like they used to." he got out between giggles. Every cape present blinked and looked out the windows to see the Tinker's toys. There was a gleam of light as the cannon barrels split into four, revealing another compressed blast charging for a shot. Then-


BANG


-another report rocked the bay, shots impacting maybe a mile out. In the flash Dennis could just make out a writhing shape charging the shores. Leviathan. The ships promptly proceeded to break any resemblance to their historic counter parts and split lengthwise, revealing the sorts of cannons you only saw in cartoons on satellites and the like. And spaceships, he thought vaguely as the barrage continued while more of the BFGs (what else are you going to call that, honestly.) were revealed, each beginning to hum deep enough to be felt even in the building.


Leviathan breached the water in a jump, heading straight for the middle of the formation. Dennis heard gasps as the capes in the room saw the damage already inflicted by the main guns, scars and blackened marks lining the abomination's form. One of his eyes was just...gone, as was his left hand, most of his right knee, and his right arm mysteriously missing. Thinking back later Clock assumed Leviathan had gone for the jump to try and break the lead ship and get around them to Brockton itself, where the concern of splash damage would force the guns to halt. No such luck. A field of hexagons slammed into existence midair, blocking the jump and sending the Endbringer crashing into another field just above the waves, and coincidentally, perfectly in the crossfire of each BFG.


"Relentless?" Glory Girl muttered quietly. Not quiet enough as every eye in the building turned to her. Glory flinched then said firmly. "That looks like Relentless' barrier power. Never seen anything else like it."


All eyes turned back to the Tinker fleet (Relentless?) as the hum changed pitch one more time. The guns briefly held a miniature star in each barrel, then there was a flash that turned night to day. When it faded, most of Leviathan had been reduced to debris falling from the skies, with a peculiar sphere falling into the seas. Dennis felt numb. Just like that? The speakers in the room and around town crackled for a moment before Relentless' voice came through clearly.


"The seas belong to those who sail them little beast. You are not welcome in our territory. From this day forward the Fog rule the ocean, as it should be. Let this serve as a demonstration to all who would challenge the Fleet of Fog's claims. To harm our family will result in nothing but a brief flash of agony and an abrupt silence. Don't push us." The voice cut off and the ships returned home to prepare. After all, when one declares war on the Endbringers, it's best to plan for the worst.


A/N: Ok, this is literally the second thing I've ever written and meant for public eye so forgive my pacing issues, have a tendency to monologue even in life sometimes. Aside from that, feel free to criticize and I'll do what I can to fix it up, but note that I'm kinda crap at keeping up with notifications and schedules so it may be left as is after roughly a week or two. In case it needs clarification, Taylor justified keeping Missy safe by her by having Vista warp space to get shots from the back guns in front of the ships.
 
BANG"?

What do you mean "BANG"??
Maybe the BANG is synthesized for the nostalgic value.

I'm calling it a mix of Tay forcing an inefficient reaction for intimidation value, Dennis mentally inserting what would be appropriate for the aforementioned WW2 model ships, and lacking any properly intimidating way to say "pew".

Why not this lovely sound instead?


That's the Super Grav Cannons I'm pretty sure. The main guns just come out to a weird "Kewwww"
 
I'm calling it a mix of Tay forcing an inefficient reaction for intimidation value, Dennis mentally inserting what would be appropriate for the aforementioned WW2 model ships, and lacking any properly intimidating way to say "pew"
PEW


In all seriousness, I'm imagining an extraordinarily long, extremely loud peal of thunder each time a gun fires. Taylor wouldn't be so gauche as to be inefficient, and the menacing (not to mention deafening) sound of man made thunder is intimidating enough as is.
 
Back
Top