Transposition, or: Ship Happens [Worm/Aoki Hagane no Arpeggio | Arpeggio of Blue Steel]

Archimedes was in the middle of developing the steam engine when he died. Because of that, Rome collapsed under its own weight and was brought down by barbarians, and instead of an Industrial Revolution two thousand years ago we had the Dark Ages. I defy you to tell me how the Spanish Inquisition and the Crusades helped humanity in any way to play cultural catch-up to steam engine technology.
Wrong. Archimedes had nothing to do with it.
Aeolipile - Wikipedia
It was a Roman inventor that did it. Also, the Romans and Greeks lacked the metalurgy needed to build a decent boiler, or the pipelining needed to send the high pressure steam to a place where it could do something useful.

It's been commented that progress only happens when the synergy of a lot of different results in a lot of different areas happens. First and foremost, the implantation of the scientific methodology, which made research go from somewhat whimsical to systematic. Without that, you cannot truly advance.

So, for a technological advance to happen, all pieces have to be in place one way or another. So, when all techs for making trains were known, someone put them together and made a train. Similarly, even with the invention of the steam machine, you needed a different kind of engine, the internal combustion engine, to make a machine that could actually fly. And even in that case, the ICE had to be small and light enough to fit in a plane.
Its curious how it s the Spanish Inquisicion the only one the people remember or how the we expel jew and moriscos when we were the LAST ones in expel this people and last one to have inquisición
Or that the Spanish inquisición normaly respond to the spanish crown so it was lightly more controled NOT too much but a little
Oh, religious intolerance was a thing way before Spain existed. The Romans "tamed" the Hebrew religion to make it more pliable to Roman society by killing lots of Hebrews, and allowing to survive only the more moderate Rabis to further have a more mellow version of it. And they relentlessly and brutally crushed Christianism because it was sensed as a massive threat to Roman society.

When Christianism became the state religion, suddenly paganism and in general any non-Christian religion was bad. You can check what happened to Hypatia of Alexandria.

As for the Inquisition, it started as a temporary office to make inquiries into heresy and deviations of the accepted doctrine. Like when the only crusade that occured in European territory was fought in Occitania against the cathars who, among other horrible things had the gall of appointing female priests (the horror! Imagine that!). There were friars and priests that "interrogated" prisoners until they "confessed" what the "interrogators" wanted to hear. So, it was a thing in the Middle Ages.

It was queen Elisabeth of Castille that turned it into a permanent office. It was also her that ordered the Jews to be expelled from her territory. It also shows the fact that Spain didn't exist at this point, that when they were expelled, the Jews moved to either Portugal or the other neighboring kingdom where Elisabeth had no authority, i.e. the one ruled by her husband, Ferdinand of Antequera, AKA Ferdinand the Catholic. Ferdinand later allowed himself to be convinced by his wife to expel the Jews from Aragon too.

It was at this point that the Pope decided that having a permanent Inquisition was a good thing for Christianity and mandated it for all Christian kingdoms. As the only ones with "experience" with inquisitioning things, it's no surprise that the early Inquisition was full of Castillian names. It started in Spain, and it was globally known as the "Spanish Inquisition".

All countries have monsters that commited atrocities in the name of God, but dropping the blame somewhere else is, from their point of view, a good thing. It happened more recently with the so-called "Spanish flu", which should rightfully be called "US flu", because there is where it started.

And you are wrong in saying that Castille and Aragon were the last to expel the Jews. Most kingdoms didn't, but some other kingdoms expelled Jews from their territory later for different reasons. Usually to get their hands on the supposed wealth of the Jews (which it didn't exist), or to have a convenient scapegoat to blame for something.

Okay, enough history.

Back to ensou's latest comments, I cannot help but draw a parallel with the light novel series (and later awesome anime) called "Overlord".

Reader's digest version to provide context to the ones not interested in anime: "Overlord" happens in the future, where a virtual MMORPG called Yggdrasil is about to close its servers. A human player, Guildmaster of a group called Ains Ooal Gown, by the name of Momonga decides to stay within the Guild's Headquarters, the Great Tomb of Nazarick, until the servers close. But when the closing time passes, and the Tomb is still there, he realizes something is wrong: the whole Tomb and its contents, including the player-developed NPCs, have been moved to a different world.

Quite early in the anime, (episode 2 or 3, I think), he's checking the surrounding area and sees a small village being attacked by soldiers. He sees those soldiers mercilessly killing defenseless peasants and feels... nothing. Momonga realizes he should feel horror, outrage, or something before that display of brutality, but he only watches uninterested.

That detachment from mankind progresses with the story, and provides a stark contrast with the "humanity" displayed by the interactions among the different NPCs and even himself, like when NPCs Albedo and Shalltear start arguing about who beds Momonga first.

Taylor seems to be experiencing something similar to that divorcing from mankind, only that she does have anchors to keep her more tied to the rest of mankind. Also, the Mental Models of the Fog gain, as someone else stated, human traits by interacting with humans and among themselves. Which also provides an interesting counterpoint to Overlord, where the NPCs see their prejudices against mankind confirmed with almost every interaction with humans, and any positive human traits they gain are basically by interacting with themselves.
 
Their still the problem that any person on the street could abuse that knowledge for their own gain.

No. First they would need the intelligence and background to understand her tech. Then they would need the resources to make the tools to make the tools to make the tools... (repeat a large number of times) ... to make the tools to make her technology. Honestly, the man on the street has no chance. Governments would take I don't know how long to reach what she has. Her downloading her tech base would not make a difference to the technological level of her earth for years.
 
Regarding Ziz and the "put down Parahumans that could make things better" that it share with its siblings, what could happen if it tried the tactic it has used on Alan Gramme/Sphere (later Mannequin) against Taylor/Relentless?

Would the Ziz fail... or worse, join the FleetofFog dot Net?
 
Regarding Ziz and the "put down Parahumans that could make things better" that it share with its siblings, what could happen if it tried the tactic it has used on Alan Gramme/Sphere (later Mannequin) against Taylor/Relentless?

Would the Ziz fail... or worse, join the FleetofFog dot Net?
The important thing to note about the "put down Parahumans that could make things better" the Endbringers are supposed to have, is that while people in Earth Beit believe they're doing that (at least in fanon, although I think there's an actual canon statement about it), we know that that's not actually what the Endbringers are doing anymore than they're trying to kill everyone. Rather they're following the the Simurgh's plan to accomplish something (possibly destroy Scion).
 
The important thing to note about the "put down Parahumans that could make things better" the Endbringers are supposed to have, is that while people in Earth Beit believe they're doing that (at least in fanon, although I think there's an actual canon statement about it), we know that that's not actually what the Endbringers are doing anymore than they're trying to kill everyone. Rather they're following the the Simurgh's plan to accomplish something (possibly destroy Scion).

Considering that Eidolon/Dadversary's subconscious is the one that has access to part of their OS, eoungh to have called them forth and partially direct them under the directive "Need challenges", I do not exclude a visit from one of the trio to Brockton Bay... apart Leviathan, of course, if its canon visit 'because Noelle is here' will happen as it happened in canon.
 
Considering that Eidolon/Dadversary's subconscious is the one that has access to part of their OS, eoungh to have called them forth and partially direct them under the directive "Need challenges", I do not exclude a visit from one of the trio to Brockton Bay... apart Leviathan, of course, if its canon visit 'because Noelle is here' will happen as it happened in canon.
Did Eidolon call them? Or Did the Simurgh use something about his power to let them come out and start enacting her plan?
 
It was queen Elisabeth of Castille that turned it into a permanent office. It was also her that ordered the Jews to be expelled from her territory. It also shows the fact that Spain didn't exist at this point, that when they were expelled, the Jews moved to either Portugal or the other neighboring kingdom where Elisabeth had no authority, i.e. the one ruled by her husband, Ferdinand of Antequera, AKA Ferdinand the Catholic. Ferdinand later allowed himself to be convinced by his wife to expel the Jews from Aragon too.

In reality the expel (first one and the more ortodox jew the rest say that they converse or converse themselfs) was instigate by Inquisición :oops: when Isaac Abravanel ask to pay for the cancel of the expel, the main inquisitor throw 30 silver coins at the Catholic kings and ask if it was enought for Jesus. And we have to remember that it was a great moment for spain as the Reconquista was at her main moment and Granada has just fall they have to look strong ... all very bad idea

It was at this point that the Pope decided that having a permanent Inquisition was a good thing for Christianity and mandated it for all Christian kingdoms. As the only ones with "experience" with inquisitioning things, it's no surprise that the early Inquisition was full of Castillian names. It started in Spain, and it was globally known as the "Spanish Inquisition".
That its not completly true the Inquisición was invented by the roman as secret police agains the ones against the new catholic emperors in IV century. Then in France because diferences of doctrine in 1184 then adopted by the Pope Gregorio IX in 1231 to made pression on the rest of catholic kingdoms and fight the paganism.
Finaly in 1249 finaly it was adopted by Aragon (castilla in 1478)
An as for have spaniards in important places during the next couple of centurys you have to remember the the spanish kingdom that will become Spain kingdom was the mix of the kingdoms of CATHOLIC kings, they see themselves as defenders of the faith and misionary of Catholicism over the world.
Controled an important part of Europe and got an empire bigger that the british one, if the Spanish kings (after the Catholic Kings) say "jump" the pope and many others just jump dont even ask "how high" and because of that it wasnt so difficult to see important post with spanish people or with spanish name... (think a bit like USA today, important people with english names or USA nationality)
... :rolleyes:o_O:oops: and this is really de-railled soo... Arpeggio-worm

I dont think you can dump Fog-tech or Fog-science when you dont have the infrastructure or understanding of the tech and help the humanity, more knowing that you have Tinkers arround to start to play with that tech and they 'reproduce' it in a little (too much) unreliable bad-copy... and it gives more toys to Ziz to play with or to made the things easy for her :o (you cant give to the romans diagrams of a high pression steam generator and hope the can develop a computer or a tractor)(1632 saga got this relative right, de-escalate)
So or she help after the Goden Morning or she became Lady and Mistress of Earth-bet (& neighboring)
 
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Guys can we please stop with the history derail before the mods decide enough is enough? This is a nice thread we have here and I'd hate to see it locked.

For relevancy, didn't the Simurgh whammy people via TK'ing people's brain chemistry? Taylor doesn't have that anymore and I doubt QA would let the Simurgh use her shard link as a proxy. I'm fairly sure Taylor should be fine; the real danger is Simmie grabbing some nanomaterial and going hog-wild with it.
 
Did Eidolon call them? Or Did the Simurgh use something about his power to let them come out and start enacting her plan?

Positive, Ziz was the last Endbringer called forth by Grassman's hidden inferiority complex/unrequired need for challenges (the order is Behemot, Leviathan, Simurgh) and until Behemoth's destruction at Scion's hands no other Endbringer (of the existing twenty-seven) had been summoned/activated.

For relevancy, didn't the Simurgh whammy people via TK'ing people's brain chemistry? Taylor doesn't have that anymore and I doubt QA would let the Simurgh use her shard link as a proxy. I'm fairly sure Taylor should be fine; the real danger is Simmie grabbing some nanomaterial and going hog-wild with it.

Or, even worse, the Admirality Code hijacking The High Priest (aka Eidolon's Shard) control signal and thus Ziz's alliegance?
 
For relevancy, didn't the Simurgh whammy people via TK'ing people's brain chemistry? Taylor doesn't have that anymore and I doubt QA would let the Simurgh use her shard link as a proxy. I'm fairly sure Taylor should be fine; the real danger is Simmie grabbing some nanomaterial and going hog-wild with it.

Except QA is not doing Taylor's thinking for her, she has a processing core... So while the Simurgh couldn't do the same thing she can do to regular people there is no guarantee she can't influence her by altering her programming.
 
Except QA is not doing Taylor's thinking for her, she has a processing core... So while the Simurgh couldn't do the same thing she can do to regular people there is no guarantee she can't influence her by altering her programming.

If she knows how. Simurgh isn't working off her own knowledge as far as I know, she's drawing from what tech the Space Whales have seen in the past. If the Fog are something completely new to her then Simurgh might not have any way to influence Taylor.
 
If she knows how. Simurgh isn't working off her own knowledge as far as I know, she's drawing from what tech the Space Whales have seen in the past. If the Fog are something completely new to her then Simurgh might not have any way to influence Taylor.

She sees the future. She can just poke Taylor until she sees a future she wants. She doesn't need to understand what she is doing.
 
Positive, Ziz was the last Endbringer called forth by Grassman's hidden inferiority complex/unrequired need for challenges (the order is Behemot, Leviathan, Simurgh) and until Behemoth's destruction at Scion's hands no other Endbringer (of the existing twenty-seven) had been summoned/activated.
No evidence of that in canon. Some hints which support both that theory and the one I mentioned (and probably a bunch of others) so unless you resort to Occam's razor (which is cheating :) ) there's no reason to think that.
 
She sees the future. She can just poke Taylor until she sees a future she wants. She doesn't need to understand what she is doing.
Depends on whether she's interpreted as "perfectly precogging based off of current info" or "actually sees the future". In the former case, it also depends on just how much is Taylor's core black-boxed.
 
Depends on whether she's interpreted as "perfectly precogging based off of current info" or "actually sees the future". In the former case, it also depends on just how much is Taylor's core black-boxed.

If she can perfectly extrapolate future events then she presumably has a perfect model of how physics work. Otherwise she couldn't predict anything that way since she would get butterflied immediately. Fog tech is presumably still running on actual physics so their tech would still be predictable.

It is more likely that she just actually gets information directly from the future though IMO. Her ability to at least work around blindspots to some degree implies that.
 
If she can perfectly extrapolate future events then she presumably has a perfect model of how physics work. Otherwise she couldn't predict anything that way since she would get butterflied immediately. Fog tech is presumably still running on actual physics so their tech would still be predictable.

It is more likely that she just actually gets information directly from the future though IMO. Her ability to at least work around blindspots to some degree implies that.
Depending on how advanced Fogtech id they might have...Temporal Counter Measures? Like ECM but with time? They seem to have space manipulation locked the fuck down if they can tear apart a black hole in nanoseconds, and (as far as i'm aware) from a higher dimensional perspective time and space are different aspects of the same thing. In which case it becomes a game I know that you know that I know that you know, et cetera
 
Will even the Admiral Code and Queeny let someone like the wingedone to hijack their host without fightin? I dont think so... future predictions to hurt her still are in game. but apart of this we still got the problem that Taylor is an object, no a biological being for the rest of powers (if she didnt develop some Manton field generator) so it exist the possibility that Ziz can strip his body and core of the nanomaterial and do pretzels with her body (not a beaufiful sight)(is Leah free of this by been a brain in a body?)... well Ziz and any other parahuman (Missy) that affect mater in funny ways :)rolleyes:o_O possible solution: will kleint shield :confused: stop the power in some grade?)

Maybe leave out Ziz attacks and help in the rest? Bezemoth will only charge her with all that radiation around him and with Levi... well, its personal so It's carnival!!
 
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but apart of this we still got the problem that Taylor is an object, not a biological being for the rest of powers (if she didnt develop some Manton field generator) so it exist the possibility that Ziz can strip her body and core of the nanomaterial and do pretzels with her body

so it exist the possibility that Ziz can strip her body and core of the nanomaterial and do pretzels with her body

Ziz can strip her body and core

There we have it people! A new ship is born! :p

Taylor: "I need an adult!"
Ziz: "Me too!"
 
Precog shards work via mathematical modelling. If something is literally unpredictable, over time any and all precogs become unreliable due to compound errors. I doubt that ensou wants that kind of AU.

She stared, looking at the black skeletal hands and arms in front of her, holding her up from the ground, lifting her left one up before flexing it. She twisted it around, spreading her fingers, watching it move and shift hypnotically, silvery-black bands and fibers twining and flexing around dark metal. Metal plates sat on the underside, contoured and fitted to it.
 
Pretty sure that needs a NSFW warning. Assuming of course it isnt against site rules, not sure.

There's been previous unspoilered pictures on other sections of the forum that show just as much that have gotten moderator attention but no infractions that were somewhat more sexual I'm pretty sure he's okay.
 
Depending on how advanced Fogtech id they might have...Temporal Counter Measures? Like ECM but with time? They seem to have space manipulation locked the fuck down if they can tear apart a black hole in nanoseconds, and (as far as i'm aware) from a higher dimensional perspective time and space are different aspects of the same thing. In which case it becomes a game I know that you know that I know that you know, et cetera

Well, it wouldn't make much sense to have anti-precog without actually having precog. Especially if it works by spoiling enemy precog with your own... So then it comes down to the source material I'm not very familiar with, does the FoF have precog?

Precog shards work via mathematical modelling. If something is literally unpredictable, over time any and all precogs become unreliable due to compound errors. I doubt that ensou wants that kind of AU.

Source? Not saying it isn't true but something conclusive would be nice.

And if there would be some part of physics that the entities couldn't predict then we'd need to keep in mind that physics happens without humans or robots poking things too. It would need to be something very peculiar to not happen naturally at all. So yeah, then precog probably wouldn't work period.
 
Weeelllll....

Not sure if anyone visits Crunchyroll, but they do Simulpubs of Arpeggio...and it just updated with Chapters 97-99...

And of course there is a huge cliffhanger at the end...
The mysterious hanger at the Maritime Academy is where the Mental Models were born...and apparently there is going to be a huge party involved with PLENTY of fireworks...
 
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