- Location
- Finland
I did say even more so.
A succesful gangboss will also go through that to a degree.
If you can't administrate your gang holdings, you will not go very far, stay around very long, or grow very big.
Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)
- Thread starter yrsillar
- Start date
- Original Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
A succesful gangboss will also go through that to a degree.
If you can't administrate your gang holdings, you will not go very far, stay around very long, or grow very big.
- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
"Give your baby superhumans a choice between being destroyed or a having legitimate place in the existing power structure" is just good practice. It gives marginalized people a reason to want their talents found and gives central authority a new way to apply pressure to entrenched nobility, since nobility's stance of "you need us" can be countered with "no we don't, we've got all these ambitious new recruits who will sell their talent cheap."
(A lot of large empires applied roughly this tactic in real history to inject vitality into leadership classes that would otherwise ossify. It works much better than trying to clamp down on all talent that doesn't come from Socially Upstanding Sources.)
This strategy doesn't have many weaknesses, but it does have a major one: it is so good at winning people's loyalty that your internal enemies might copy you and sweep up your potential recruits before you can. That is to say, either illegitimate sources of opposition (e.g. pre-existing rebel groups) or legitimate ones (powerful nobility that want to enhance their own position at the expense of their rivals) cherry-pick the best ones and offer them better deals than you did. This is basically what CRX did by grabbing Ling Qi as her retainer: Ling Qi observed that new baronial houses tend to hit a lot of problems without powerful sponsors and, extremely rationally, opted for a powerful sponsor. This isn't a huge problem, since the Empire is built around strong assumptions of feudal-style decentralization (it's not clear to me what resources the Imperial family possess in their own right, as crown lands and resources, rather than levied from the provinces, besides I guess the Ministries?) and so this is less "subversive strategy by the Cai" and more "par for the course", but it is worth noting.
(A lot of large empires applied roughly this tactic in real history to inject vitality into leadership classes that would otherwise ossify. It works much better than trying to clamp down on all talent that doesn't come from Socially Upstanding Sources.)
This strategy doesn't have many weaknesses, but it does have a major one: it is so good at winning people's loyalty that your internal enemies might copy you and sweep up your potential recruits before you can. That is to say, either illegitimate sources of opposition (e.g. pre-existing rebel groups) or legitimate ones (powerful nobility that want to enhance their own position at the expense of their rivals) cherry-pick the best ones and offer them better deals than you did. This is basically what CRX did by grabbing Ling Qi as her retainer: Ling Qi observed that new baronial houses tend to hit a lot of problems without powerful sponsors and, extremely rationally, opted for a powerful sponsor. This isn't a huge problem, since the Empire is built around strong assumptions of feudal-style decentralization (it's not clear to me what resources the Imperial family possess in their own right, as crown lands and resources, rather than levied from the provinces, besides I guess the Ministries?) and so this is less "subversive strategy by the Cai" and more "par for the course", but it is worth noting.
- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
Thinking about this social event on a larger scale: the biggest problem is that we *don't* know what the actual opinions or motivations of any of the other parties are. We've been guessing based almost entirely on the hints in the vote text itself, with a big helping of awesome=love, but have avoided the chance to actually find out.
Why does ES dislike us? Do we have any first-hand sources, or just guesses that have hardened into conventional wisdom? Would we be better off trying to stand out or blend in? IDK we never asked anyone or got any input from the people we are trying to influence.
Overall I think that our social art better be something that allows us to get these answers without actually talking to people, because otherwise we are pretty much just playing ENTIRELY on metaknowledge with no real IC way of getting info. Since we don't like to talk to people.
Why does ES dislike us? Do we have any first-hand sources, or just guesses that have hardened into conventional wisdom? Would we be better off trying to stand out or blend in? IDK we never asked anyone or got any input from the people we are trying to influence.
Overall I think that our social art better be something that allows us to get these answers without actually talking to people, because otherwise we are pretty much just playing ENTIRELY on metaknowledge with no real IC way of getting info. Since we don't like to talk to people.
- Location
- Fabulously Rainbow Ireland
...
[] A cooperative hunt against a more cunning beast. Increased difficulty means less chance to play the social game, but impressive skills may bring admiration...
Fair enough. I should probably reread the choices after the new chapters come out.
Its only been mentioned in passing, but the imperial family controls the primary source of spirit stones.
- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Thanks for the clarification! That is indeed an important resource to control in crown lands to maintain unity in a fairly confederal system.
- Location
- Finland
What happens if/when the spirit stones run out?
Will there be a cultivator equivalent of energy crisis?
Chapter 67- Sect Work 2 - Forge of Destiny
Thankfully, searching for the vulpine girl was not nearly as onerous as searching out Gu Xiulan. Ling Qi simply had to head out to Su Ling’s cave home (...)
www.royalroad.com
Of course, maybe Su Ling doesn't realize how impossible her dream is, but on the other hand her mother has gotten away with being a serial murder hobo for hundreds of years.
I think it can be done, but you have to keep a very low profile and try hard to avoid Imperial attention.
- Location
- Canada
Spirit Stone mines gradually replenish so long as you don't tap them out completely, so they're a renewable resource so long as you manage them properly
Presumably ambient Qi nonsense means that new minor veins of Spirit Stone might form randomly and possibly start a new mine in some location
[X] Ling Qi would take the role of bait, it was the best use of her abilities within the limitations of the hunt. It would be more impressive and she was suited to protecting the other 'bait' cultivators.
- Location
- Finland
What, they just grow more rock?
Are spirit stones somekind of coral?
- Location
- Canada
They're... somewhat similar to fossil fuels?
Spirit stones are formed from Qi, which is infinite, presumably over time and under certain conditions the Qi suffusing the earth solidifies into the crystal that the Empire mines for
The huge explosion of Sun, Fire and Death Qi from the clash of the Purifying Sun and the Twilight King for instance, has resulted in valuable metals and material in the Golden Fields, in addition to the nuclear ash zombies
- Location
- Required Location
IIRC you also once said that there are no officially known sources of white spirit stones and that any spirit stones ranked violet and higher are for the personal usage of the empress, as she is trying to hit white in the next decade or two. IIRC it was in one of the Discord WoG dumps.
- Location
- Canada
Surely the Empress isn't taking up all the stones Violet or higher right?
She has direct access to said stones, which is greatly beneficial but I don't think she's denying everyone violet or higher stones in order to use them all up herself
Isnt zhengui's turtle dad a makeshift spirit vent? Or i remeber badly?
- Location
- into cup
There was never an expository scene where someone handed Ling an itemised list of reasons the local rich kids don't like her, as far as I remember, but we can surely apply our powers of analysis and come up with a reasoned argument as to why that might be. First and most obviously, she's a complete political outsider who, as Cai Renxiang's direct retainer, holds a position a lot of nobs would kill to obtain. The fact that she got the job despite her extremely humble origins means a lot of people who were never in the running are going to think 1) they might have had a shot after all, and 2) they're better qualified for the position (in a way they wouldn't have if the retainership had gone to an orthodox claimant, like the close relative of a count or whatever).
Further, Ling has probably not done the best possible PR job since joining the inner sect. Consider, for example:
- Until this point, she's not made any particular effort to approach the great and the good socially. She knows several noble scions other than Cai, but they're all foreigners. Any noble who's spoken directly with her probably did so at one of Cai's parties, which Ling only attends out of obligation.
- Whenever she's in a social setting and less than perfectly at ease, her first instinct is to channel Bai Meizhen. Your first impression of her is likely going to be that she's aloof, slightly haughty and politely stand-offish.
- She always wears her combat-grade magical gown when she's out on the town. She's effectively walking around in a full suit of armour all the time, even when she's performing musically at parties and the like, as if she's either planning on picking a fight or expecting one to break out at any moment.
Iron and Ice: Fire and Growth
- Location
- United States of America
Iron and Ice: Fire and Growth
Ice and iron clashed against silver and steel amongst the Wall. The ground shook and mountains shattered, winds howled in agony and glaciers cracked. Maddened spirits and beasts threw themselves upon the stalwart line of Imperial cultivators, frenzied in their attempt to destroy anything in their path north. Huai Leng doggedly stood his ground amongst his brother's in arms, exhaustion making his knees tremble while the cold had frozen fingers to his shield. The last wave had left a wolf's corpse cooling next to the butt of his spear. The order was given, and he moved two steps back, closer to the last line of defense in the valley.
His division had been fighting for almost a full week straight, with no reprieve. Mustered when the Argent Sect's initial outposts had been overrun by this tide of madness, they had been the first to secure this valley and, supposedly, would be the first to rotate out once this mess was under control. Their orders, the commanders had said, were simple. Hold the valley. And so, they had dug in, trees had been felled for barricades, the very earth shifted to provide barracks under the ground and away from the chilling wind, a killing ground had cleared with fire, spirits were pacified, and rotations had been set up. Through it all, the beasts came. Wolves, bears, deer, cats, birds, horses, all charged their division intent on killing anything that stood in their way. And yet, they held.
Reinforcements were promised but were diverted to more pressing fronts. And yet, they held. Supplies became erratic as more divisions were mustered to beat back this tide of beasts. And yet, they held. Their more powerful commanders were stripped away from the division to support flagging valleys. And yet, they held. They held, for if they ran then they would all die. Their families would die. And only the Great Spirits knew how many villages would be devoured before this valley could be secured again.
Another wave of beasts approached, more numerous than the last. Flicking some blood off of his spear, Huai Leng entered into the prescribed stance, despite every fiber of his being crying for release. All he had to do was survive another hour, and then the next rotation of soldiers would relieve him.
Huai Leng stood next to the warming formation, coaxing life back to his frigid fingers. Someone passed him a bowl of stew, still steaming from the cooks' fires, and he began to devour it. It tasted poor, but at the very least it was food in his belly. The door slammed open and shut as someone hastily entered the warm confines of the barracks. Looking up, Huai Leng saw that it was merely Rou Li, and promptly went back to eating the stew. Nothing good ever came from actually engaging the slimy gossiper.
Keeping half an ear on the conversation, Huai Leng finished the stew and began massaging tired and sore muscles. Nothing of note really seemed to have changed since yesterday. Orders were the same, a messenger had come promising reinforcements, but something struck his interest.
"Hey Rou Li," Huai Leng spoke up, "what was that last bit?"
Rou Li looked up from the group he was talking to, grimaced and said, "What? That the Cai are coercing more support from the Western, Eastern, and Northern Counts?"
"No before that, something about the Ling?"
Rou Li frowned before he answered, "Yeah, apparently some scouts found what is causing this mess and it's gotten the Ling really riled up. Rumor has it that they are waking up The Living Flame and are having him march to the Wall."
"That's… I mean… Shit."
Rou Li nodded and the rest of the barracks got awfully quiet. The tension became thick enough to cut with a knife, but Huai Leng didn't have the energy to break it, and it looked like no one else had the energy either. He turned back to face the warming formation and worked to forget the gossip. After all, it was just a rumor, and rumors were notoriously unreliable.
As the weeks dragged on, the waves of beasts successfully got weaker and the tension from the division ratcheted higher each passing day. Their scouts had noted a mountain, to the south of them, moving towards the Wall. Even at the dead of night, when the cold winter clouds shrouded the moon and stars, the mountain was visible. Burning red lines crisscrossed the surface of the mountain, and on a particularly clear night, a scout spoke about the crimson eyes and serpentine shape resting at the peak. The Living Flame was on the move, and one way or another this nightmare would end once it reached the Wall.
While their valley was secure with little conflict, reports from the other fronts, especially those closer to the middle of the Wall, were less comforting. Blood of both man and beast flowed easily in those valleys, as the wave of beasts seemed to increasingly focus on breaking through a narrow section of the Wall. Emergency divisions from the other counts of the Emerald Seas had arrived, however, and even now the storm of beasts was failing to break the bastion of Imperial strength.
Then, The Living Flame came upon the Wall and the abomination that caused this disaster rose to meet him. Ash choked the sky while icy wind tore off the peaks of mountains. Roots fit to drink oceans sundered the ground and rose to claim the sky itself while the cold of winter sought to sap all life and vitality from the earth. Lakes of fire flowed from The Living Flame and then those very flames were frozen as they reached their foe. A spirit of eternal winter clashed against a spirit of cyclical growth and destruction. Fire and ice, death and growth. The battle lasted for days, but ultimately one spirit fled. Even now, Huai Li could close his eyes and sometimes hear The Living Flame's roar as it pronounced its victory and the safety of the Empire.
A/N: A fun little thought that I've had for years after reading the Barbarian interlude in the previous thread. Now I can, at last, get it out of my head. The premise? The Iron Toothed Crone encroaches upon the Empire, and a solider has to deal with it until Zhengui can lay the smackdown on the Spirit. Anyway, here's another omake for the omake throne @yrsillar. As always, I hope you enjoy, and critiques and criticisms welcomed.
Ice and iron clashed against silver and steel amongst the Wall. The ground shook and mountains shattered, winds howled in agony and glaciers cracked. Maddened spirits and beasts threw themselves upon the stalwart line of Imperial cultivators, frenzied in their attempt to destroy anything in their path north. Huai Leng doggedly stood his ground amongst his brother's in arms, exhaustion making his knees tremble while the cold had frozen fingers to his shield. The last wave had left a wolf's corpse cooling next to the butt of his spear. The order was given, and he moved two steps back, closer to the last line of defense in the valley.
His division had been fighting for almost a full week straight, with no reprieve. Mustered when the Argent Sect's initial outposts had been overrun by this tide of madness, they had been the first to secure this valley and, supposedly, would be the first to rotate out once this mess was under control. Their orders, the commanders had said, were simple. Hold the valley. And so, they had dug in, trees had been felled for barricades, the very earth shifted to provide barracks under the ground and away from the chilling wind, a killing ground had cleared with fire, spirits were pacified, and rotations had been set up. Through it all, the beasts came. Wolves, bears, deer, cats, birds, horses, all charged their division intent on killing anything that stood in their way. And yet, they held.
Reinforcements were promised but were diverted to more pressing fronts. And yet, they held. Supplies became erratic as more divisions were mustered to beat back this tide of beasts. And yet, they held. Their more powerful commanders were stripped away from the division to support flagging valleys. And yet, they held. They held, for if they ran then they would all die. Their families would die. And only the Great Spirits knew how many villages would be devoured before this valley could be secured again.
Another wave of beasts approached, more numerous than the last. Flicking some blood off of his spear, Huai Leng entered into the prescribed stance, despite every fiber of his being crying for release. All he had to do was survive another hour, and then the next rotation of soldiers would relieve him.
*****
Huai Leng stood next to the warming formation, coaxing life back to his frigid fingers. Someone passed him a bowl of stew, still steaming from the cooks' fires, and he began to devour it. It tasted poor, but at the very least it was food in his belly. The door slammed open and shut as someone hastily entered the warm confines of the barracks. Looking up, Huai Leng saw that it was merely Rou Li, and promptly went back to eating the stew. Nothing good ever came from actually engaging the slimy gossiper.
Keeping half an ear on the conversation, Huai Leng finished the stew and began massaging tired and sore muscles. Nothing of note really seemed to have changed since yesterday. Orders were the same, a messenger had come promising reinforcements, but something struck his interest.
"Hey Rou Li," Huai Leng spoke up, "what was that last bit?"
Rou Li looked up from the group he was talking to, grimaced and said, "What? That the Cai are coercing more support from the Western, Eastern, and Northern Counts?"
"No before that, something about the Ling?"
Rou Li frowned before he answered, "Yeah, apparently some scouts found what is causing this mess and it's gotten the Ling really riled up. Rumor has it that they are waking up The Living Flame and are having him march to the Wall."
"That's… I mean… Shit."
Rou Li nodded and the rest of the barracks got awfully quiet. The tension became thick enough to cut with a knife, but Huai Leng didn't have the energy to break it, and it looked like no one else had the energy either. He turned back to face the warming formation and worked to forget the gossip. After all, it was just a rumor, and rumors were notoriously unreliable.
*****
As the weeks dragged on, the waves of beasts successfully got weaker and the tension from the division ratcheted higher each passing day. Their scouts had noted a mountain, to the south of them, moving towards the Wall. Even at the dead of night, when the cold winter clouds shrouded the moon and stars, the mountain was visible. Burning red lines crisscrossed the surface of the mountain, and on a particularly clear night, a scout spoke about the crimson eyes and serpentine shape resting at the peak. The Living Flame was on the move, and one way or another this nightmare would end once it reached the Wall.
While their valley was secure with little conflict, reports from the other fronts, especially those closer to the middle of the Wall, were less comforting. Blood of both man and beast flowed easily in those valleys, as the wave of beasts seemed to increasingly focus on breaking through a narrow section of the Wall. Emergency divisions from the other counts of the Emerald Seas had arrived, however, and even now the storm of beasts was failing to break the bastion of Imperial strength.
Then, The Living Flame came upon the Wall and the abomination that caused this disaster rose to meet him. Ash choked the sky while icy wind tore off the peaks of mountains. Roots fit to drink oceans sundered the ground and rose to claim the sky itself while the cold of winter sought to sap all life and vitality from the earth. Lakes of fire flowed from The Living Flame and then those very flames were frozen as they reached their foe. A spirit of eternal winter clashed against a spirit of cyclical growth and destruction. Fire and ice, death and growth. The battle lasted for days, but ultimately one spirit fled. Even now, Huai Li could close his eyes and sometimes hear The Living Flame's roar as it pronounced its victory and the safety of the Empire.
A/N: A fun little thought that I've had for years after reading the Barbarian interlude in the previous thread. Now I can, at last, get it out of my head. The premise? The Iron Toothed Crone encroaches upon the Empire, and a solider has to deal with it until Zhengui can lay the smackdown on the Spirit. Anyway, here's another omake for the omake throne @yrsillar. As always, I hope you enjoy, and critiques and criticisms welcomed.
Last edited:
- Location
- Canada
I agree on most of the explanation, but this one point needs a bit of further information
Certain nobles, namely those who spend more of their time around the inner provinces and their courts might look down their nose a bit at Ling Qi constantly wearing her Cai dressYrsillar on Discord said:
But ES nobles by and large don't raise all that many eyebrows at it, she isn't alone in wearing presentable armor to formal occasions
- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
And that's a good series of educated guesses, but the main flaw is that it is all extrapolated from what we know and how we think. If there are currents, alliances, and agendas going on that we are ignorant of (and we can be sure there are) then this way of working will get us blindsided when the stuff we don't know about is more important to our peers than the motives we are guessing they have.
For example: is Li's relationship with the Bai a plus or a minus, and with which groups? Probably dependent on the historic relationships between the individual ES border clans and the Bai... So who do we mention Miehzen to in order to reassure them that we have connections, and who do we mention the same thing to in order to threaten them?
That is the stuff we need to actually talk to people to get, and it will bite us if it comes up and we guess wrong.
- Location
- Finland
I suspect traditionalists are either uncaring or in favor of being friends with Bai who themselves are traditionalists.
Those more closely aligned with central provinces and the empresses party line probably would not like it.
Those closely aligned with, or trying to curry favor from, Shanhua will be all in with the alliance in public, but differ in private depending on their personal and family alliances.
Those more closely aligned with central provinces and the empresses party line probably would not like it.
Those closely aligned with, or trying to curry favor from, Shanhua will be all in with the alliance in public, but differ in private depending on their personal and family alliances.
Absolutely.
My feeling is that arcs should be primarily motivated by either the "main plot" or by showing/advancing Ling Qi's growth (as a person, a cultivator, a noble). This of course requires her to interact with the world and other people. Her relationships are very important. But arcs should not be motivated just by the desire to see another character on screen. Such is essentially an omake, and in the context of the story proper are essentially filler.
I worry that yrsillar possibly feels pressured to give us these character votes for the sake of giving us the opportunity to see characters, but really we should be seeing them all the time as part of the story. Like, the bandit arc was really strong because it hit on basically every important note. It advanced the broader political plot, showed Ling Qi's growth as a wmd, showed some of her noble responsibilities, challenged her as a person, and developed her relationship with Renxiang. This is great! This is the kind of thing we need!
But yeah, I kinda feel that we're often given too many options each month. If there isn't room for an adventure vote then just don't do one.