It feels like you keep arguing back because you don't like the answer, which seems to be, "Most Red cultivators can pass as normal without even trying to do so, unless someone is specifically suspicious of them."
Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)
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It feels like you keep arguing back because you don't like the answer, which seems to be, "Most Red cultivators can pass as normal without even trying to do so, unless someone is specifically suspicious of them."
EternalObserver
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Stealth quota is already filled up. Pls choose something elseYay! My omake was made into a Sidestory! @yrsillar I would like to putmy two pointsone point towards Resilience and one towards Stealth please. ^_^
Something's been bugging me, so I did a bit of review. Here's the opening for the event with Ling Qi's thoughts on the whole thing. Her attitudes towards the circumstances, and Sixiang's attempts to help her through it.
Ling Qi is ruffled by petty rumors and jibes, and she does have the jitters over joining a gathering of peers more intimate than Cai's impersonal parties, and what's more even the idea of those things has significant sway over her. It's really hard to transition from "She didn't like the idea much, but perhaps…" to a rejection that doesn't expose her fearful motives. Logic relying on anything else isn't going to be truly genuine, and that's unacceptable to Ling Qi's Way. But neither is fleeing from a challenging situation purposelessly. Ling Qi's trapped herself.
Speaking of trapping Ling Qi, I also have some analysis of Luo Zhong I need to do, but I've run out of time.
Here's the lead up directly to the upcoming update.
I think it's reasonable to assume continuity, of narrative, of feelings. Sixiang is trying to warn Ling Qi away from the bad attitude again. Ling Qi is resistant, but considers it, but she will be rejecting the advice. Why? The flow of their conversation on the matter throughout the arc points at one underlying reason: she is afraid.
Ling Qi is ruffled by petty rumors and jibes, and she does have the jitters over joining a gathering of peers more intimate than Cai's impersonal parties, and what's more even the idea of those things has significant sway over her. It's really hard to transition from "She didn't like the idea much, but perhaps…" to a rejection that doesn't expose her fearful motives. Logic relying on anything else isn't going to be truly genuine, and that's unacceptable to Ling Qi's Way. But neither is fleeing from a challenging situation purposelessly. Ling Qi's trapped herself.
Speaking of trapping Ling Qi, I also have some analysis of Luo Zhong I need to do, but I've run out of time.
Discussion is not argument.
I enjoy working out the hows and whys of setting consistency.
If the uncanny valley effect is not present because cultivators and spiritblooded are present sufficiently that its never become an adapted trait, then it arises that the same differences can drive a sense of awe, because rule 1 of survival is not crossing a being of higher cultivation when you can help it.
People who don't have an instinctive quality to avoid crossing cultivators are a deselected trait, mitigated by there being not many cultivators per mortal in more recent times for the Empire, but on the other hand for tribal and early imperial existence EVERYONE cultivated if they were to survive, so it'd be tricky to adapt too.
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I think it's more just that Reds honestly aren't that superhuman. So they pass fine as just very fit mortals. Yellow is when we start to become noticeably superhuman, and Green is when we start to bestride the world like smol gods
It all depends on whether they picked up Crimson Flowing Art. Those Reds are gods.I think it's more just that Reds honestly aren't that superhuman. So they pass fine as just very fit mortals. Yellow is when we start to become noticeably superhuman, and Green is when we start to bestride the world like smol gods
Varder
Tired Cultist
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Why? She doesn't have insights that prevent her from retreating unless something really crutial is lost.
Congrats dudeYay! My omake was made into a Sidestory! @yrsillar I would like to putmy two pointsone point towards Resilience please. ^_^
I've been wondering, but how would you guys fit characters from another power system into the classifications that we have? e.g. Worm's Skitter.
To just come out and say it, Luo Zhong is playing a political game with Ling Qi, here. This is a big fat "duh" statement, since any leader of a clique is going to be doing that with someone they've invited to a gathering. You don't lure a mark onto your home ground for no reason. We don't have the information to guess what his reason actually is, but I'd lean towards it being well-intentioned, or at least not overtly malicious, despite any annoyances it might be causing her. Which isn't the same as saying that his intentions are respectful of Ling Qi as a person. It's worth examining what and how he's tilting the odds, in any case.
First, there were the circumstances of our invitation to the event. He went out of his way to personally invite Ling Qi to the gatherings. In person, personally! Given the relative social ranks, this was a nod of respect towards Cai Renxiang, and quite likely evidence that he's sifted through the rumors and has an above-average understanding of Ling Qi's social preferences- mainly, he recognized that getting in her face to bug her about it is teetering on necessary. It helps that he wanted to ask questions about the big juicy rumor of the time, being the run-in with the border bandits. Him showing up face to face to offer the invite could be argued as something she semi-owes him for, if spun as a respectful gesture towards her(instead of that actual trying to pin down the flighty girl for bandit answers).
The rest is all in this event, and I'll be quoting sections in order and analyzing them.
...But not right away, the opening introductions to the hunting party aren't that exceptional, and it's a scattered section. Luo Zhong introduces people and gently parries some of the more direct probes at Ling Qi, which is pretty expected host behaviour, essentially neutral. He steers the conversation towards the border bandits so Ling Qi can give her Official Story, which is both sensible and appreciated.
Or did he forget? One consequence of sending them off more-or-less solo is that it isolated her from the rest of the group. Both of them, really. By having their interaction out of sight, he's controlling and limiting variables, like trickle-down esteem from Alingge to others in her "camp", for example. It's not visible to them, so it doesn't affect them, at least within the context of this gathering so far. Creating the distance lets him preserve future interactions for tweaking and prodding.
It's clear that Luo Zhong is manipulating Ling Qi. He's using his position of authority to narrow her options and the context of her exposure to the group, herding her back and forth while handing out little treats of good favor. I just can't quite figure out what his aims are. Personal gain, obviously, but is he trying to keep us reliant on him or does he thing Ling Qi needs that level of railroading, and he's trying to do Cai Renxiang a solid by being her training wheels? Cretin and fool that he is, it's just an obnoxious millstone dragging us down. We don't need help with that.
I will say that the same "social/less social" dichotomy is almost certainly not an aspect of his thinking in the latest "trap". That's all on Ling Qi/our side. He deliberately isolated us after the first decision point, but this one is about foisting responsibility for the hunt and our own performance onto us and narrowing our options. Guy doesn't need a specific step-by-step plan to generally engage in "helpful" obstructive behaviour that keeps us under his thumb.
Edit: obviously he's extracting social favor from Ling Qi through the whole process, which is pretty grating, honestly.
First, there were the circumstances of our invitation to the event. He went out of his way to personally invite Ling Qi to the gatherings. In person, personally! Given the relative social ranks, this was a nod of respect towards Cai Renxiang, and quite likely evidence that he's sifted through the rumors and has an above-average understanding of Ling Qi's social preferences- mainly, he recognized that getting in her face to bug her about it is teetering on necessary. It helps that he wanted to ask questions about the big juicy rumor of the time, being the run-in with the border bandits. Him showing up face to face to offer the invite could be argued as something she semi-owes him for, if spun as a respectful gesture towards her(instead of that actual trying to pin down the flighty girl for bandit answers).
The rest is all in this event, and I'll be quoting sections in order and analyzing them.
...But not right away, the opening introductions to the hunting party aren't that exceptional, and it's a scattered section. Luo Zhong introduces people and gently parries some of the more direct probes at Ling Qi, which is pretty expected host behaviour, essentially neutral. He steers the conversation towards the border bandits so Ling Qi can give her Official Story, which is both sensible and appreciated.
Ling Qi is right, and this is a load of malarkey. The group convenes regularly to hunt, they obviously have means to decide without Ling Qi's input. This was a deliberate move on his part, and since it's a social event, his purpose was social in nature. By 'deferring' to her as tie-breaker, he's giving her respect. However, it's a gesture made at no personal cost that inserts Ling Qi as a partisan wedge. It raises the stake a bit through polarization, which raises the value of his small gestures of support moving forwards. Basically, Ling Qi "owes" him for "siding" with her, despite it only making it more likely for her to need/benefit from his help.
This seems like an obvious favor to one of Alingge or Ling Qi. I'm not clear which at this point, but it's definitely meant- and meant to be understood- as a favor, which he gets to be "owed" for again. Superficially, giving Ling Qi one on one time with a viscount scion is a decent boon. However, Luo Zhong forgot that Ling Qi is the direct subordinate of the province's heir, and single-point viscount contacts just don't have the same value to her that they normally do of people her station.
Or did he forget? One consequence of sending them off more-or-less solo is that it isolated her from the rest of the group. Both of them, really. By having their interaction out of sight, he's controlling and limiting variables, like trickle-down esteem from Alingge to others in her "camp", for example. It's not visible to them, so it doesn't affect them, at least within the context of this gathering so far. Creating the distance lets him preserve future interactions for tweaking and prodding.
Here we have another instance of Luo Zhong giving Ling Qi face. This isn't so much Luo Zhong trying to sway the audience to like Ling Qi as it is establishing the popular take. Whether individuals are convinced that Ling Qi was a major contributor doesn't matter because the bossman's basically said so. It may or may not sway people favorably long-term, it does give Ling Qi some cover in conversations and banter for the remainder of the event, and it's another thing Ling Qi owes Luo Zhong for.
Here, Luo Zhong "covers" for Ling Qi by taking credit for the hunt target that he previously pinned on her. I think it washes out to be neutral; the context of him pushing it on her means she doesn't really owe him for stepping in, but at the same time I don't think the intention is to wholly take back ownership of the subject. It feels like a one-off he can pull because he's the man at the top of the totem pole. Not a cynical ploy, just an exercise of privilege as it's convenient for him.
And now he's back to putting her on the spot, and in the context of a plan that's "hers". He was previously happy to assign her a task, but now he's having her be responsible for picking. It ramps up the pressure and stakes on her performance, with all eyes on her.
It's clear that Luo Zhong is manipulating Ling Qi. He's using his position of authority to narrow her options and the context of her exposure to the group, herding her back and forth while handing out little treats of good favor. I just can't quite figure out what his aims are. Personal gain, obviously, but is he trying to keep us reliant on him or does he thing Ling Qi needs that level of railroading, and he's trying to do Cai Renxiang a solid by being her training wheels? Cretin and fool that he is, it's just an obnoxious millstone dragging us down. We don't need help with that.
I will say that the same "social/less social" dichotomy is almost certainly not an aspect of his thinking in the latest "trap". That's all on Ling Qi/our side. He deliberately isolated us after the first decision point, but this one is about foisting responsibility for the hunt and our own performance onto us and narrowing our options. Guy doesn't need a specific step-by-step plan to generally engage in "helpful" obstructive behaviour that keeps us under his thumb.
Edit: obviously he's extracting social favor from Ling Qi through the whole process, which is pretty grating, honestly.
I mean, look at these:
2 and 3 should make her less wary of threats along an unsure path, those either might have value themselves, or don't detract from the result if you're resolute. 4 should strongly encourage her towards wanting to overcome hurdles in her path, especially ones that 1 tells her might be irrational or internal in nature more than external. 5 applies indirectly through the rest, since compromising on who and what she is, which all the other lessons are, is just the kind of thing this one stands in opposition to; it was a narratively satisfying lesson to take because it appeared to formalize the gains of perspective from the Forest King fallout.
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The usual review, in lieu of sleeping
It does not look malicious in the least, but its likely staged, under normal circumstances when he gathers a hunt he SHOULD already have the decision made so that he doesn't end up offending half the group no matter what.
...this probably isn't giving Ling Qi's impression that most people are weak and fragile any help is it?
Which is something that Alingge would have found incongruent with how Ling Qi spoke of spirits and thus would have asked about.
So thats one foul rumor slain...at least in Alingge's circles.
I wonder if they weren't a tribal uprising or invasion that won and then the Hui, lacking strength, signed them right up because better pissing out than in.
Its just that when it comes down you're in for rude shocks.
We didn't get much chance to interact in detail, but nobody's really offended beyond being disagreed with, and the party is working.
-Boss Luo - Packmaster here.
-Wu Jing's Modern Centrists - Might be trying too hard seeing as they don't really match up with the others who lean more traditionalist.
-Moon Guys Traditionalists - Might be Alingge's allied faction? She wears similar stuff.
-Modern Modest - Gut feel says Modern Conservatives?
Not much in depth info of course, but we'll see.
Smells a bit like a set up devil's advocate?
I wonder why the doggo doesn't like us much.
Spirits tend to be simpler for such matters.
A test then, he does her a great honor in pretty much declaring that she do whatever, it gives her the lion's share of the credit AND fault for anything going wrong.
It does not look malicious in the least, but its likely staged, under normal circumstances when he gathers a hunt he SHOULD already have the decision made so that he doesn't end up offending half the group no matter what.
A Moon Deer! She has good taste!
Considering that Golden Fields was hunting Green beasts while Yellow without much fuss, that sounds about right.
...this probably isn't giving Ling Qi's impression that most people are weak and fragile any help is it?
I'd hazard a guess that the rumors were particularly uncharitable about why the guardian spirit is dead. And I'm guessing at least a big chunk of them are based off "Ling Qi pulled strings to get her killed for the loots"
Which is something that Alingge would have found incongruent with how Ling Qi spoke of spirits and thus would have asked about.
So thats one foul rumor slain...at least in Alingge's circles.
Early days of the Hui. Suggesting right in the disorder after the Weilu vanished.
I wonder if they weren't a tribal uprising or invasion that won and then the Hui, lacking strength, signed them right up because better pissing out than in.
Isolationism DOES work for a time, especially their particular brand of "we got people for that, so we can isolate and they take care of it" moderate isolationism.
Its just that when it comes down you're in for rude shocks.
Catto for Doggo hunt. Logical!
Okay, so this is going well so far.
We didn't get much chance to interact in detail, but nobody's really offended beyond being disagreed with, and the party is working.
So we have:
-Boss Luo - Packmaster here.
-Wu Jing's Modern Centrists - Might be trying too hard seeing as they don't really match up with the others who lean more traditionalist.
-Moon Guys Traditionalists - Might be Alingge's allied faction? She wears similar stuff.
-Modern Modest - Gut feel says Modern Conservatives?
Not much in depth info of course, but we'll see.
One competency box ticked.
Okay, so this bit makes me wonder. Wu Jing is unlikely to be so unadept as to repeatedly put his foot in his mouth by going against the crowd. First with criticizing Ling Qi's dealing with Chu Song, and now criticizing a decision Luo Zhong officially backed.
Smells a bit like a set up devil's advocate?
The important part is not to give offense after all, so you should come up with a plan, but not say it until they had their say then offer up your plan anyways.
Anyone noticed this?
I wonder why the doggo doesn't like us much.
Spirits tend to be simpler for such matters.
- Location
- UK
Well really they would just be mortal but with a good art that costs zero Qi in that case.
I want to say that the combat method wouldn't really work there due to the auto successes or whatever it is for different stages and realms, but it might work anyway with how badly Ling Qi would wreck Skitter. So long as she can sense Skitter which shouldn't be too hard considering Skitters range limitations and the BS that are cultivator senses even without arts, Ling Qi could likely quite simple defeat Skitter even without Arts just with her senses, speed, strength and durability, and has multiple Arts (SCS for instant teleport ->neck snap, FSS instant kill, TRF for Invul etc) that would make it trivial.
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I could imagine that, considering Skitter's personality, she would level up pretty hard in this universe. But yeah, most of the Wormverse's characters wouldn't stand a chance against a Green cultivator. Maybe Eidolon though.
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Oh yeah, providing she has Talent you would probably have a Shenhua With Bugs pretty soon.
The bigger problems with Worm specifically are one) Entity derived powers wouldn't work in FoD per Yrs Word of God (iirc? if I have this someone please correct) as there aren't parallel dimensions for Shards to manipulate/hide in, two) Entity Powers work on physics which would either straight up not work with FoDs more subjective physics or just not apply correctly in the power system (i.e. if Sting somehow worked it may be just as effective against a Red as Shenhua, providing you can hit), and three) if an actual Outsider (that is anyone from another world/universe) showed up the moment they run into a higher tier cultivator, which could be the moment they step foot on the planet with Great Spirits, then at least some of that Outsider nature will be known, which means that pretty soon the Great Spirits will know, and I wouldn't be surprised if there were some Dresden-esque laws against Outsiders that would lead to an instant smiting. Possibly also including the local country side Golden Fields style.
If not, then they're still effective mortals with likely a great many Great Spirits interest, which... yeah no idea how that would go. It may even depend on who finds them first, whether they're smited, put under protection or abducted and made into some exotic pet.
Varder
Tired Cultist
- Location
- Hell
I think you misunderstand it. It doesn't say that Ling Qi should always overcome obstacles, it says she has to constantly try to do it. Trying, and failing, and trying again is acually encouraged by 2.
I didn't want to go there because I felt like my post was suspicious enough, but this is a real possibility. Can't really tell without diving in headlong, honestly.
That was more or less my intended meaning, but I think the sentence ran away from me a bit.
Edit: Actually, my meaning was pretty clear, looking back. "...encourage her towards wanting to overcome hurdles" is saying what you said it should say. Important is the "wanting", being motivation to make attempts. I didn't really address continual repeated efforts.
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- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
This whole analysis was very good, thank you.
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- Canada
Well I'm a bit late to this conversation, but Skitter would not match up well in this setting
Her powers shouldn't work at all for starters given the nature of the world of FoD
But let's imagine that her powers still function, she controls arthropods correct? This could be potentially fairly dangerous given how deadly the fauna is in this world, but the truly dangerous high level beings are all sapient creatures that more than likely have resistance to mind altering effects. She might, might, be able to amass a menagerie of red, yellow and maybe certain green creatures if she's somehow lucky enough not to run into the wrong things and her powers can actually effect them.
Skitter's biggest issue is that she is a fragile mortal human being at the end of the day. The list of people who could bypass whatever army she could amass and kill her is not a short one. With methods ranging from stealth, to plowing through minions to get to her, to esoteric nonsense. She would be in near certain death if matched against most mid greens and unless circumstances heavily favor her, would probably have trouble against a talented yellow. Anything above mid green would be pretty much instant death in a fight.
A bit of small context here: Within nobility everyone owes everyone else small to medium favors. Its one of the soft mechanisms which keeps conflict in the courts rather than the fields.
Favors ultimately are useful in a PRETTY narrow set of circumstances:
-Favors have the sole compulsion of not wanting the other party's opinion to drop. I.e. favors have little use as a hold on your enemies, only on your allies and on neutral parties
--As such, worsening your relations 'cost' you in favors owed, and both parties have a vested interest in playing ball.
-Debts owed give a face saving excuse to take action rather than inaction. They can mask or degrade conspiracist thinking.
In essence, owing him minor favors is a good thing. We need his clique to owe us minor favors back in turn to make it complete however.
Mmm, my first impression was "is this guy an idiot?"...but when you think about it, you don't get to be a noble sub-clique leader by vigorously shoving your foot into your mouth against your boss.
Depends on if you're doing a straight insert(which would require a personal field of her native reality to work) or if you're adjusting to make her fit the setting.
Because Parahumans are effectively doing a variant on Barbarian Cultivation: They're bonded to a more potent immaterial spirit which allows them to use some of their spirit arts with the parahuman as a vector of action, in exchange for new experiences as a mortal's symbiote which might let them work out of their natural limitations.
You're right, and I wasn't entirely clear. Him racking up minor social favors from Ling Qi is grating in the context of her social aims not panning out, especially if his interference is contributing. Especially especially if he's maneuvering favors out of situations that aren't particularly helpful to her or even in lieu of what she's trying to do. It constitutes a failure of his in adhering to the social contract.
Now, things are still pretty open on the whole, but he's straddling a number of lines. Depending on how things continue to pan out, he can be anything from useful to a complete write-off. I'm hoping he's not a frustrating selfish waste of time, but I'm in a pessimistic period of thought for now.
Contessa's PtV would probably give her a godly breathing technique and exactly how to use it, and also show her how to unlock Fate Qi and lead her down the Path of Inevitable Victory. Capitalized for emphasis.
I guess... Though Khephri's power was just straight-up bullshit that even people with mental powers had absolutely zero defence against.
While I don't want to get too much into vs. nonsense, since as the author that feels a little masturbatory, the issue with wormverse mind control and powers in general really is that it operates off the assumption of a purely materialistic determinist universe, neither of which is true of FoD. In wormverse khepri was irresistable because she is directly manipulating peoples physical brains and/or shards. This would not be sufficient to control a cultivator for very long, or at all for anyone high enough to have a domain. I won't go any further than that, but in general Worm and FoD are incompatible settings due to different underpinnings of universal design.
This isn't touching the general impossibility of a shard or entity reaching it in the first place as I assume a crossover would handwave that with its initial unicorn/ASB intervention.
Anywho authorial musing aside, update will be up later today.
This isn't touching the general impossibility of a shard or entity reaching it in the first place as I assume a crossover would handwave that with its initial unicorn/ASB intervention.
Anywho authorial musing aside, update will be up later today.
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- Location
- Yes
Since we're talking about a bunch of teenagers, I believe the answer is yes. On the other hand, he's willing to admit he's wrong so maybe he's not a teenager.
Clearly we need to spend more time with Wu Jing to solve this troubling question. Good thing he's such an interesting character!
A question I have; do high level cultivators that specialize in crafting make use of their own body as resources? Like blood and flesh?
I assume that once you get to a high enough rank the cultivators body itself is potent in value and can heal relatively quickly so it wouldn't be much of a sacrifice for high level reagents.
I assume that once you get to a high enough rank the cultivators body itself is potent in value and can heal relatively quickly so it wouldn't be much of a sacrifice for high level reagents.
